Suspicion (105)

[watcher652]

Ok, I just got done watching Suspicion again, and I have to tell ya that if I was Sheppard, That **** of a Bates (security ***) would have been shot after they found the locket that was a transmitter. He is just as bad as the Wraith and needs to be shot or removed the show. Whoever picked him for a character was on crack. Kick him off the show, or at least make it so that he becomes possessed by an alien and has to be SHOT.

Nah, you need to have somebody that's over the deep end in the other direction. An extreme viewpoint is good to have, if just to make you think, "well, that's what the enemy might be thinking since they're extremists."

Besides, Bates was the right hand man to Robert Patrick's character (forget the name right now) so he probably doesn't like Sheppard having Ford as his second, nor Sheppard's record of disobeying of a direct order.

Watch Bates get saved in one episode because Sheppard won't follow protocol and let him die. But Bates won't let that soften his attitude. Oh, well, maybe just a tad. But it's his job to be suspicious.

[Major Fischer]

Watch Bates get saved in one episode because Sheppard won't follow protocol and let him die. But Bates won't let that soften his attitude. Oh, well, maybe just a tad. But it's his job to be suspicious.

I think it's also important to remember that every hero needs a foil to work off of. Bates is Sheppards.

[Liv]

Besides, Bates was the right hand man to Robert Patrick's character (forget the name right now) so he probably doesn't like Sheppard having Ford as his second, nor Sheppard's record of disobeying of a direct order.

I think it's also important to remember that every hero needs a foil to work off of. Bates is Sheppards.

Yes, I really like the fact that there is a slight antagonism from Bates' side towards Sheppard. It makes sense that Bates is somewhat suspicious of Sheppard's abilities to take command, following Colonel Sumner's demise. Conflict between two characters almost always makes for good and thought-provoking tv, IMO. Unless there's no foundation for the conflict, but in this case I believe there is.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Yes, I really like the fact that there is a slight antagonism from Bates' side towards Sheppard. It makes sense that Bates is somewhat suspicious of Sheppard's abilities to take command, following Colonel Sumner's demise. Conflict between two characters almost always makes for good and thought-provoking tv, IMO. Unless there's no foundation for the conflict, but in this case I believe there is.

Hum, interesting. Have Sheppard and Bates ever been at odds in any of the other eps? I thought Suspicion was a one-time thing. Next time I saw Bates (in his scene with Steve), his relationship with Sheppard seemed cordial enough. I'd go so far as to say that Bates has won Sheppard's respect because he didn't let himself be cowed by the Major.

Bates is a good man - a good detective. He's the kind of guy you want on a case because he won't settle for the easy out. It wasn't his job to soothe puppies; he was assigned to root out the fleabag so all the other puppies could stop scratching.

Even though his methods were unpopular with his superior military officer he stuck it out. He remembered who his actual superior was - Weir - and went as far as he needed to go to get the assigned job done.

And a good thing, too, wouldn't you agree?

[Major Fischer]

Hum, interesting. Have Sheppard and Bates ever been at odds in any of the other eps?

He's mentioned at the end of Underground where it sounds like he's in a little unofficial competition to get food with Sheppard's team. Seems he's running one of the other Atlantis gate teams.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

He's mentioned at the end of Underground where it sounds like he's in a little unofficial competition to get food with Sheppard's team. Seems he's running one of the other Atlantis gate teams.

<nods> I never thought of it that way.

I simply thought Sheppard was disappointed in his own failure to get the job done. Still, it's interesting that Weir would use teams this way.... She said it wasn't a competition, but in saying the word, isn't she actually creating a competive atmosphere for the guys?

Man, she's good!

BTW, I'm glad that the #1 team comes in second or even last from time to time; it makes them more human, fallible and believable.

[Liv]

Hum, interesting. Have Sheppard and Bates ever been at odds in any of the other eps? I thought Suspicion was a one-time thing. Next time I saw Bates (in his scene with Steve), his relationship with Sheppard seemed cordial enough. I'd go so far as to say that Bates has won Sheppard's respect because he didn't let himself be cowed by the Major.

He's mentioned at the end of Underground where it sounds like he's in a little unofficial competition to get food with Sheppard's team. Seems he's running one of the other Atlantis gate teams.

I was going to mention that bit in Underworld, but Major Fischer already took care of that, so I don't have to.
I suppose there hasn't been much open conflict between them since Suspicion - I may have to rewatch all the episodes to make sure, though (oh, woe is me, the trouble of watching them again ). But I still took that line in Underworld as a slight follow-up by the writers to the conflict, and a small hint of things that might happen in future episodes (no spoilers, I'm only speculating ).

Bates is a good man - a good detective. He's the kind of guy you want on a case because he won't settle for the easy out. It wasn't his job to soothe puppies; he was assigned to root out the fleabag so all the other puppies could stop scratching.

Nice analogy, there.

I'm not disputing that Bates is a good man (I have yet to see anything that would indicate otherwise) but that doesn't mean that conflict can't arise anyway. There was a certain harshness to his investigation in this episode. I understand that he needs to do his best as he is in charge of security and this was a serious issue, but there is still a way to investigate things and have a certain "bedside manner" about it.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

[QUOTE]

I'm not disputing that Bates is a good man (I have yet to see anything that would indicate otherwise) but that doesn't mean that conflict can't arise anyway.

Conflict good. Me likeum conflict.

There was a certain harshness to his investigation in this episode. I understand that he needs to do his best as he is in charge of security and this was a serious issue, but there is still a way to investigate things and have a certain "bedside manner" about it.

LOL! An MP with a bedside manner....

What gets me is that MacKay gets away with far worse and pretty much constantly, and the fans fawn over him. Bates, as, head of security, is basicly a cop, and a military one at that.

[Sy'onei]

That however brings up a question. If the Wraith guy was so eager to blow himself up, why did he let the threat of death stop him? I would rather they had shot him a second time and it disabled him enough to remove the self-destruct device. I also wonder how much of his "my kind will save me" routine was truthful. If Wraith are rigged to self destruct like that, his kind probably expect him to have blown himself up, not leaving much to rescue. Hopefully the Atlantis team has removed any tracking devices on his person that would allow the Wraith to find them.

I know this is late as heyull but here I go. I don't believe the threat of death stopped the Wriath, but his inability to self-destruct was a result of the stun Major Sheppard gave him with the Wraith weapon from behind. We all know that the Wraith's guns offer a temporary paralysis when fired at a human target. When McKay was hit he dropped immediately, but when the Wraith was hit he still had a little energy to try and push his self-destruct, but Sheppard stopped him and you saw his body begin to shut down its movements. It seems that it takes a little more time for the effect of the Wraith weapon to have a change on the Wriaths’ themselves.
I’m going out on a limb here, but I think “Steve” may have had something up his sleeve when he was trying to scare Major Sheppard about the other Wraiths coming for them. Why would they come if he self-destructed? Seems like he knows something we don’t. Remember Teyla said games are not their way?

[Major Tyler]

I like that they finally decided to demonstrate that sometimes P90s jam. When Teyla was shooting that Wraith in the final battle, her P90 jammed up, so she had to chase Steve with just her M-9. I always wondered why TPTB never showed a gun jam in over eight years.

On a side note, does anyone know why SG teams that carry P90s don't also carry FN FiveseveN pistols as a sidearms, rather than the M-9s? The 5-7 pistols use the same rounds as the P90 and that would be an advantage if they needed to conserve ammo. It makes even more sense on Atlantis because they have a limited supply of ammunition (ie. they could have taken mostly 5.7mm for the P90s and pistols from Earth, and just brought enough 9mm for the M16s).

Any thoughts?

[Major Fischer]

On a side note, does anyone know why SG teams that carry P90s don't also carry FN FiveseveN pistols as a sidearms, rather than the M-9s? The 5-7 pistols use the same rounds as the P90 and that would be an advantage if they needed to conserve ammo. It makes even more sense on Atlantis because they have a limited supply of ammunition (ie. they could have taken mostly 5.7mm for the P90s and pistols from Earth, and just brought enough 9mm for the M16s).

My guess? The prop department either doesn't know, or doesn't care, that the P90 uses that funky caliber.

[Major Tyler]

My guess? The prop department either doesn't know, or doesn't care, that the P90 uses that funky caliber.

Well, they still use blanks for the show, so I imagine that they'd have to use 5.7 blanks, and hence, would be aware of the caliber difference. They probably just didn't want to buy a bunch of 5-7s.

[Major Fischer]

Well, they still use blanks for the show, so I imagine that they'd have to use 5.7 blanks, and hence, would be aware of the caliber difference. They probably just didn't want to buy a bunch of 5-7s.

Entirely possible (even likely), there is also the chance that the person who decided to use the P90s and the M9s isnt' the same person who handles the blanks.

[Andy867]

Or due to regulations, field units are required to have a certain amount of ammo and certain weapons for missions (also dependent on weight, things like that).

[Major Fischer]

Or due to regulations, field units are required to have a certain amount of ammo and certain weapons for missions (also dependent on weight, things like that).

No one is questioning that. We are discussing that the M-9 (92F) Beretta and the FN P-90 use different ammunition, and it would make logical sense for them to carry a pistol that uses the same ammunition as the P-90. Originally when SG1 carried HK MP-5s, both sidearm and smg did use the same caliber and thus interchangeable ammunition.

Modern history is riddled with horror stories about units cut off with a ton of ammunition that wont fit any of the working guns at their disposal. It was a particular problem for the Japanese during World War II because they used an unusally wide range of calibers and cartiage types.