John Sheppard/Teyla Emmagan Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[vaberella]

I have just had another look at the kissing icon and I didn't see her push John away. Her hands were up next to her face and HE abruptly stopped the kiss - almost as abruptly as he started it. She actually looked a bit shocked that it was over.

That's not what I saw. Don't look at the icon, check out the scene itself. She was pushing away then you do see her hands go up. At that point, you get the impression clearly she DOESN'T want to continue. I definitely took it as a stop. She also happens to be unresponsive at that point...his lips are just going, but she stopped acting out the kiss. And when it was over, didn't see surprise over it being over. More along of surprise that it happened, she participated, JOhn initiated...and it went on as long as it did...

In any event there was a point where she was unresponsive to the kiss.

VB

[Jeyla4ever]

Here it is again....we can never have enough of this...LOL

[vaberella]

Looks like the icon Rising_Phoenix did for me a few months back...I wonder if that's still my avatar on the Sony board.

Anyway as I said...the kiss didn't interest me too much, there was too much aggression behind it, further more---although IT was John's baser instincts. I personally would like to see something along the kiss or something similar happen without one or the other being under the influence, so to speak. It's rather annoying that we get inhibitions released ONLY when someone is not themselves. It could be why I hold Sateda on a pedestal. I really appreciated Phantoms because there was something more...but he was again under some sort of influence. I'd just like straight.

Like the way McKay was "asking Weir out"...that shows to me his interest and him saying things along the line of some sort of energy he felt between them...some may find it just typical McKay, I read something more. Since I could definitely see something more developing there. That's what I'd like to see more with JT, I just got snippets. MM had a little John/Teyla something or other, but Sateda, well...incomparable!

[bluealien]

That's not what I saw. Don't look at the icon, check out the scene itself. She was pushing away then you do see her hands go up. At that point, you get the impression clearly she DOESN'T want to continue. I definitely took it as a stop. She also happens to be unresponsive at that point...his lips are just going, but she stopped acting out the kiss. And when it was over, didn't see surprise over it being over. More along of surprise that it happened, she participated, JOhn initiated...and it went on as long as it did...

In any event there was a point where she was unresponsive to the kiss.

VB

OK I looked at the scene again and her hands for a second or so barley touched Johns shoulder but to me it was not a push - she then put her hands up near her face - again I didn't see this as any indication that it ment stop. As to her being unresponsive well I can't really answer that. Their lips were firmly pressed together at that stage so I can't say what she was feeling. John did abruptly end the kiss - he then seemed to be in as much shock as she was.

[vaberella]

OK I looked at the scene again and her hands for a second or so barley touched Johns shoulder but to me it was not a push - she then put her hands up near her face - again I didn't see this as any indication that it ment stop. As to her being unresponsive well I can't really answer that. Their lips were firmly pressed together at that stage so I can't say what she was feeling. John did abruptly end the kiss - he then seemed to be in as much shock as she was.

That I agree with. But once she put her hands up, that meant stop to me,a and she wasn't as active as I saw her when she was holding on to his shirt. I agree wholeheartedly with the 'stop it some more...' I can see where that shows up. I also know that John ended 'abruptly' but he was softening his 'assault' ---the guy just seemed aggressive (understandably). Overall, I don't see the kiss as a 'rape' as others have, since I did see Teyla respond.

But again I see Teyla as being extremely practical, and the situation although surprising and not at all unwelcomed---isn't the norm. As John ends it, that just says to me that John just came back to his senses, so of course he would be surprised of his actions.

[LoveConquers]

That's not what I saw. Don't look at the icon, check out the scene itself. She was pushing away then you do see her hands go up. At that point, you get the impression clearly she DOESN'T want to continue. I definitely took it as a stop. She also happens to be unresponsive at that point...his lips are just going, but she stopped acting out the kiss. And when it was over, didn't see surprise over it being over. More along of surprise that it happened, she participated, JOhn initiated...and it went on as long as it did...

In any event there was a point where she was unresponsive to the kiss.

VB

Yes, the scene is cut into three parts, but there is no pushing away. The second cut is her responding, then the third cut is her with her hands already up by her face. So yes, in the third cut she had stopped responding, but there was absolutely no pushing.

After making "The Workout," I spent over 40 hours watching this kiss over and over again in regular speed, slo mo, flipped, reversed, cut up, bl &w, sepia,etc, etc. I am very familiar with this shot, LOL! There is no pushing. But there is the signal to stop and that is exactly what he did.

First cut is surprise, second cut is responding, third cut is a bucket of cold water realization. I see the kiss as agressive yes, but not in a bad way. John is still himself, still in control, and remains himself for several more scenes after the kiss before he really starts to lose it. His normal social inhibitions were lowered at this point, that is all. He acted on his own feelings, built up during the sparring and acted on them when he normally would have pushed them aside. She was shocked, melted into it, and then abruptly stopped when her senses came back. For me, this shows they both have the attraction, but neither were ready for it to happen yet. This is why the end scene is extremely important. He tried to apologize tongue in cheek, she stopped him, deliberately called him John, and left it at that. It was a new awareness for them, that yes we have mutual attraction, but neither were ready to act on it.

This is also why season three has been so important. We are finally seeing more of that crucial emotional bonding that was lacking in season two. The trust and attraction has always been there, now they are falling for each other emotionally as well. The next kiss, if and when it ever happens, will be entirely different. And I love that. I love this kiss and I'll love any others are well. All have their different meanings and this one is right in line with their emotions at the time.

Steph

[Jeyla4ever]

Teyla flirts with John. I think she's bright enough to know when a man flirts with her and John flirts with her. I also don't think that she's unaware of at least a small attraction there from John and vice versa. So, again...I don't think it's so far to say that when John pinned her to the wall and when he spoke with her before the kiss and that lasted more than the actual kiss and then afterwards too, Teyla was probably more aware than John of what the tension and look of his face wanted from her...I really think it's not so far fetched to think that Teyla should have suspected that not only was something wrong with John but his actions and his mannerism were displaying something more that he wanted from her.

and yet you never hear her say, we should stop or even making that choice, instead she asks him what he wants to do...dang it, she gave him permission to kiss her, okay...that's far fetched...LOL

If you look at the picture, she puckers up.....and not only that, she could have stopped him or tried to stop him before, during and after the fact and she did neither.

I think they were both surprised but I also think that a part of them wanted it to happen and/or at least wasn't against it.

If she had been so against it, her behavior with John would have changed afterwards to one that she didn't want to do anything to give him any inclination that she might want more ...in other words why go back to him and say, "John" in that sultry way that she did to him...for me, she was telling John...it happened and you weren't completely in control...let's forget about it and move on with things as usual......

bottom line..I don't think Teyla did any pushing or pulling away....what I see is her putting up her arms...and yes that scene was cut and edited with others...so, it's really difficult to see just exactly what she did.....but at first you see her caressing his shirt..almost pulling him closer if that was even possible....

but to read that Rachel stated that if Teyla didn't want that kiss she would have been fine....tells me that Rachel is telling us, a part of Teyla wanted that kiss and she did.....and so did John....

and Joe confirming with "stop some more" tells me that these two actors played that piece with two things in mind...they both wanted that kiss....both Teyla and John....but the situation was not what they wanted...John would never want to kiss Teyla like that and neither would Teyla want a force kiss like that...so, they stopped....LOL

I think for two people who were in a difficult situation neither one acted so far fetched that they didn't know what the other wanted. Yes, John stole that kiss from Teyla but Teyla allowed him to take it and continue it and for me, not only did John kiss her knowing that she was responding to his kiss but the minute she put her hands out of his shirt and put them up in the air, he pulled back away from her...of coarse right after he got one last good smooch! LOL

[vaberella]

Yes, the scene is cut into three parts, but there is no pushing away. The second cut is her responding, then the third cut is her with her hands already up by her face. So yes, in the third cut she had stopped responding, but there was absolutely no pushing.

After making "The Workout," I spent over 40 hours watching this kiss over and over again in regular speed, slo mo, flipped, reversed, cut up, bl &w, sepia,etc, etc. I am very familiar with this shot, LOL! There is no pushing. But there is the signal to stop and that is exactly what he did.
First cut is surprise, second cut is responding, third cut is a bucket of cold water realization. I see the kiss as agressive yes, but not in a bad way. John is still himself, still in control, and remains himself for several more scenes after the kiss before he really starts to lose it. His normal social inhibitions were lowered at this point, that is all. He acted on his own feelings, built up during the sparring and acted on them when he normally would have pushed them aside. She was shocked, melted into it, and then abruptly stopped when her senses came back. For me, this shows they both have the attraction, but neither were ready for it to happen yet. This is why the end scene is extremely important. He tried to apologize tongue in cheek, she stopped him, deliberately called him John, and left it at that. It was a new awareness for them, that yes we have mutual attraction, but neither were ready to act on it.
This is also why season three has been so important. We are finally seeing more of that crucial emotional bonding that was lacking in season two. The trust and attraction has always been there, now they are falling for each other emotionally as well. The next kiss, if and when it ever happens, will be entirely different. And I love that. I love this kiss and I'll love any others are well. All have their different meanings and this one is right in line with their emotions at the time.

Steph

Again either way if she pushed or not, her hands were up which was a NO. There is nothing more to it than that for me. I wouldn't want someone continuing when I tried to give an impression of NO. But that's me.

I agree with your statements, but my point from the beginning was to say that Teyla did give a STOP, which was my only point in the entire statement. It wasn't to go on waxing on their feelings, I interpreted the same thing, which I've said countless times and especially my response on LJ about the 'Death of Ship', so I do recognize the JOhn and TEyla dynamic. All I wanted to clarify was that there was stop, and no matter how hard you ship, that has to be understood.

Or I'd be just like those people who said that Thalen/John was looking at Weir when he said...'He cares for you more than you know.' Delusional to the extreme!

[Jeyla4ever]

Vb..I agree with you that Teyla put her hand up as in a way to say stop and I also see that John did indeed stop and he pulled away from her and that to me is just as important...he responded with her and was not clearly so far fetched that he wasn't aware of her reaction.

BTW...I got the first icon from here....

http://ladysarahjane.livejournal.com/22929.html

and the bigger one that says scifi at the end I got from Sheylafen's site,

http://uniquebond.fan-sites.org/

[LoveConquers]

Excellent points, LC. I noticed too that when asked by "alien" Weir to host the consciousness of Thalan, John didn't look all that excited. The shuffle he made up to the lifepod, just before he takes the beam, was hilarious and not indicative of someone in a hurry to play alien "partner" in a "good-bye my love" scenario.

At the end of Conversion, as part of the commentary, Joe Flanigan talks about the apology scene with Teyla. He said something like he wanted to say he was sorry in a "yeah right" sarcastic sort of way.

Oh yeah, and I enjoyed the on-screen, "Interesting" comment made by his character right after the kiss.

But for me, the whole thing sinks or swims by whether or not Teyla liked it. And after numerous, numerous (right, Camy?) viewings, I have come to the conclusion JF was wrong: it wasn't "stop some more." There was no "stop" in it!

Edit: Oh, um, LC, have you finished the video???

Oh, I don't remember Joe's comments about that end scene! Now I have to listen to it again! LOL! That's awesome! And further supports everything we've been saying!

I also love the "interesting" comment. That one word says MUCH.

I too agree that Teyla's reaction is key. And I agree, overall, when all was said and done, she was shocked, she was suspicious, but she liked it. She wouldn't have responded otherwise, she wouldn't have stopped his apology at the end otherwise or say, "John" in such a deliberate and suggestive tone. SHE brought back the feelings of that moment and she smiled while doing so. She then blew out a big pent up breath of sexual tension and relief and release when it was all over. Our girl is subtly direct and she did that very well in this scene. Blowing out her breath as soon as her back was turned was her letting go and showing her true feelings. She was nervous to have that conversation, but it was important to her and she was pleased with how it went. How many of us find ourselves holding our breath in anticipation and then blowing it out as a release of tension? This is one of the classics touched on in any body language seminar. And I've been to several over the years.

And well, um, we'll see about the vid.

[Jeyla4ever]

Oy we are on page 997...we will be so on page 1,000 before saturday night...

so, I asked the girls to make some banners celebrating our 1,000 page...but I'm going to be gone..so, come up with new an inventive ways to showcase our love for this thread....

have a great weekend everyone!

regardless of that kiss...it happened and they neither denied it or hide it...they acknowledge it and there will be more...I hope! *wink*

[LoveConquers]

Again either way if she pushed or not, her hands were up which was a NO. There is nothing more to it than that for me. I wouldn't want someone continuing when I tried to give an impression of NO. But that's me.

I agree with your statements, but my point from the beginning was to say that Teyla did give a STOP, which was my only point in the entire statement. It wasn't to go on waxing on their feelings, I interpreted the same thing, which I've said countless times and especially my response on LJ about the 'Death of Ship', so I do recognize the JOhn and TEyla dynamic. All I wanted to clarify was that there was stop, and no matter how hard you ship, that has to be understood.

Or I'd be just like those people who said that Thalen/John was looking at Weir when he said...'He cares for you more than you know.' Delusional to the extreme!

Alright, it sounds like we're all basically saying the same thing then.

[Jeyla4ever]

Oh, and send a big hug to whomever makes the first posting to the one thousand page for me will ya!

Now, I"m really leaving!

[bluealien]

Again either way if she pushed or not, her hands were up which was a NO. There is nothing more to it than that for me. I wouldn't want someone continuing when I tried to give an impression of NO. But that's me.

I didn't see her hands being by her face as an indication she wanted him to stop. I just saw this an an indication that she didn't really know where to put her hands. The kiss started suddenly and ending suddenly but if Teyla had wanted it to stop she would have done sometime more definitive than just put her hands up by her face - she would have pushed him off - and Rachel said that she could have easily done this if she wanted to end the kiss.

I guess we just have different intereptations on this one Vaberella.

[LoveConquers]

I guess we just have different intereptations on this one Vaberella.

Very true, BA! I just wanted to say I hope I didn't come across as sounding like my opinion was the one and only absolute, and if I did, I'm so sorry to everyone! It is so true that everyone will have their own interpretations and that's what makes it all fun. We'd have no discussion if we agreed all the time, LOL!