John Sheppard/Teyla Emmagan Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[LoveConquers]

Following this thread over the past few months has really given me a whole new perspective on them, makes the show a lot more enjoyable...not that it wasn't before though.

That is so true! Not our words I mean, LOL, but that when you focus on the characters and really explore them like we tend to do here, it really does make you feel more invested in the characters and helps you understand them better and understand the show better too I think. That is one of the biggest reasons I tend to be more character-focused than plot-focused with shows. I can forgive a lot of technical or plot errors if I feel vested with the characters. It just makes watching a show that much more enjoyable I think!

[DONNA BOOTH]

i really like john and teyla where they have got to now i think they have gotten alot closer this season and has anyone been on digital spy ive got this link and it reveals more about he sg1 movies and a the bottom it says atlantis will be recommissioned for a fifth season im posting the linkhttp://http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/c...vd-movies.html

[Doxymom]

Incidentally, did anyone else feel that John's query about Ronon being interested in anyone seemed to have the undertones of a guy trying to scope out if he's going to be stealing another man's girlfriend?

When was the last time you heard a couple of adult men converse about their love lives without referencing whether or not they're getting sex? With a little projection, I can imagine them sitting in a noisy bar with the sports channel blaring in the background, and the pool sharks cheering in the background as someone sinks the ball, as John turns to Ronon and asks, "So, you and Teyla are pretty friendly. Is it just friends?" meaning "Can I ask her out, or is there something you wanna tell me?"

But that's my perception. [/spoilers]
I know that people have a lot of differing ideas about John/Teyla and how they see the relationship between the two. I think that affects how we're going to take the events and conversations of Sunday.

Some of us are more of the romantic persuasion - that they're soul mates and meant to be; others are more practical - friends (and someday lovers) in Atlantis.

My take on John/Teyla has always been that John has more interest in Teyla than Teyla has in him. He might say he's got no interest in anyone in Atlantis, but while words can lie, actions are more likely to tell the truth. It's Teyla he reaches out to when she's alone in the city, and Teyla whose good opinion counts to him. It's Teyla whom he kisses when the Iratus retrovirus is taking down his inhibitions, and Teyla to whom he confesses about his sense of family.

While the bulk of John's functional interaction is with Rodney and Elizabeth, his 'personal moments' tend to be with Teyla.

Teyla, by contrast, hasn't really given him that much to work with. She's the one telling him to 'think nothing of it' in Conversion when he tries to apologise. She's the one walking away from him in The Long Goodbye. And while she glances at him fairly often when they're out on missions, that seems more like someone looking to take cues from the leader than 'loving glances'.

So, in Sunday,

Spoiler:

Teyla's statement was a huge breakthrough for me. (Assuming she meant it about John; which, since this is the John/Teyla shippy thread, we're going to accept!) She is romantically interested in John, but is unwilling to take it further than her liking him. There are many different kinds of love - not all of them have to involve wanting to spend your life with someone.

John having previously been married and having screwed it up (from his perspective: "not very good at it") gives another reason for why he's shown all this interest in Teyla (through his actions) but never made a move. On one hand, he knows he's stuffed up a relationship before - and his wife probably wasn't a friend, team-mate, and ally in a fight against life-sucking space vampires - there's a lot more riding on his relationship with Teyla than just the 'me and you' of a standard relationship.

The actions/words dichotomy is important, IMO.

In terms of actions - yeah, we're at Season Three John/Teyla interaction. Action-wise, John keeps telling Teyla that she's incredibly important to him. (Echoes, The Ark, Sunday.)

In terms of verbal discussion/contemplation of this relationship on-screen? We are all the way back at Season One!

But hey, at least we made it out of the starting box! Other pairings haven't been so lucky.

*hugs Camy* I wouldn't lose hope, hon - our pairing got mentioned on-screen, Teyla and John both got to spill about their love lives, and John got to show his concern about Teyla.

In terms of what Stargate Atlantis usually gives us? This is a big step forward!

Sel,

Well said!

Spoiler:

I, too, thought it sounded like John was fishing if Ronon was interested in Teyla during their conversation.


What occurs to me is that maybe John's actions show just how much he's interested in Teyla *because* he hasn't made a move on her. In hindsight, we see that he leapt at all the chances for *love* when he didn't care much about the women, but with Teyla he obviously is attracted yet does not make a move. Coupled with the admission that he feels he screwed up his serious romance, hindsight says he's probably afraid to move on her *because* he cares for her too much and is afraid he'll screw things up. People can be in this state and not even realize it. It's kind of like writer's block. You want to write but can't do it and don't know why.

Teyla? Well, in my mind, she didn't go as far as telling Dr. Houston how deep her feelings were because Houston was not a really close friend, only a casual friend--she did always refer to her as *Dr. Houston* and not by her first name. We know that as soon as Teyla became close to the others she started calling them by their first names. Dr. Houston may have just been perceptive enough to notice her interest in John and have brought it up, yet not been someone that Teyla would tell her dirty secrets to.

Have a wonderful day!

Doxymom

[Doxymom]

Spoiler:

Ronon has definately planted a seed in his head that will make him think "me and Teyla......yeah....that could actually work" so it will be interesting to see what happens now.

I agree. I think, though, that John may have been attracted all along but viewed her as "unattainable" for some reason. Shoot maybe

Spoiler:

she's like his prior wife. I won't say ex- because they may not have divorced, she could be dead.

Doxy

[seldear]

Oh agreed. It would be a betrayal.. I mean after all of the work they've done to get them this far and then to just forget it all and start all over again? No way. That would be terrible.

~JB

JB? Nick? I'm gonna have to disagree here - and quite strongly. I've seen this kind of thing played out in three other fandoms before, and it's never pretty.

I'm always wary of using the word "betrayal" to describe the actions of a PTB. We, as fans of the show, are not entitled to anything from the writers/producers of a show, other than that a basic episode will be written, produced, and directed - no, we're not even entitled to a quality show.

We hope that they will produce something watchable, enjoyable, and dramatic; and we expect that they will do their best work. Our hopes and expectations may be disappointed, and often are. But we have not been betrayed when TPTB fail to give us our preferred ship. No, not even if they've been hinting at it from day one.

TPTB of a show are not always the only ones with a say in these decision. Sometimes edicts come from the production company about how things are going to play out (NBC, Heroes, and the Is Zach gay? fiasco). Sometimes actors don't want to develop a relationship due to personal reasons (ST:Voyager, Janeway's actress got married and wanted to play down the on-screen relationship between Janeway and Chakotay - and I'm sure that someone somewhere is presently reiterating the outrage of the ST:V Janeway/Chakotay/7of9 situation in SGA terms). It's not always about TPTB.

I haven't been to the Shweir thread, or any of the threads about (spoiler for S4 casting)

Spoiler:

Torri's recurring status, but I'll bet that "betrayal" is being thrown around quite a lot in there. "TPTB have betrayed us by not writing Shweir the way we wanted it!" and "The writers betrayed us by reducing Torri to recurring status!" And probably things much worse than that are also being said.

Entitlement Syndrome is a terrifying thing in all fans of all shows when taken to extremes.

Yes, we are fans of the show, but there are millions more viewers of the show, who don't care about pairings or character. Take away fandom, and we have maybe half a million people less watching the show. TPTB are not writing the show for us fans.

I love John/Teyla. I would love to see it in canon - a kiss here, a touch there, a relationship-between-the-gaps; but the odds are unlikely given these PTB and this show. And if we don't get it explicitly in canon, well, thems the breaks.

Even if we did get 'canonised', there would still be people complaining that it "came out of nowhere" and "wasn't true to the characters" and "made no sense". Because people are invested in a character or in a pairing, and nobody likes being proved wrong - those feelings have very little to do with TPTB, and everything to do with what people wanted to see, and where they placed their expectations.

Hey, I wanted to get Elizabeth/Ronon in canon, but I'd never expect it. I want to get John/Teyla in canon, but again, no expectations.

This is obviously my $0.02, YMMV (your mileage may vary), and we can't help what we feel - the feeling of being betrayed may persist in our emotions, although TPTB are still not obligated to give us what we want - but I believe we can stop ourselves from looking foolish and obsessive over it.

Sel.

[Doxymom]

Spoiler:

In Sunday, what throws me off is that Huston says something along the lines of I could talk to him for you, like she's best buds with the mystery guy. .

Actually, she says

Spoiler:

she could have "someone drop hints" and "you know him better than I do" which gives me the impression Houston doesn't really know him well enough to say anything. Buuuut, if she works for Rodney then she'd be able to drop hints around both Rodney and Zelenka who *do* know John well enough to drop hints of their own. And both of those men are just sooo good at keeping secrets (Doxy says sarcastically.) ;-)

If the gossip in the science lab were to center on how Teyla likes a certain pilot, I'm pretty sure it'd make it back to John. Course, it'd be a funny fic if someone did hint that Teyla said she liked a pilot and Rodney or Zelenka assumed it was Lorne and *told* him. LOL. Imagine if he confronted her or tried to romance her and then John's reaction? I'd love to read that.

Edited to add, sorry LC. Didn't realize you'd already answered this. I'm so far behind in pages and trying to answer as I go. LOL.

:-)

[LoveConquers]

i really like john and teyla where they have got to now i think they have gotten alot closer this season and has anyone been on digital spy ive got this link and it reveals more about he sg1 movies and a the bottom it says atlantis will be recommissioned for a fifth season im posting the linkhttp://http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/c...vd-movies.html

Thanks Donna!!! The link isn't working for me for some reason, but thanks for the news!!! Let's hope we do get a 5th season AND that they'll do right by our characters!!!

[LoveConquers]

Sel,

Well said!

Spoiler:

I, too, thought it sounded like John was fishing if Ronon was interested in Teyla during their conversation.


What occurs to me is that maybe John's actions show just how much he's interested in Teyla *because* he hasn't made a move on her. In hindsight, we see that he leapt at all the chances for *love* when he didn't care much about the women, but with Teyla he obviously is attracted yet does not make a move. Coupled with the admission that he feels he screwed up his serious romance, hindsight says he's probably afraid to move on her *because* he cares for her too much and is afraid he'll screw things up. People can be in this state and not even realize it. It's kind of like writer's block. You want to write but can't do it and don't know why.

Teyla? Well, in my mind, she didn't go as far as telling Dr. Houston how deep her feelings were because Houston was not a really close friend, only a casual friend--she did always refer to her as *Dr. Houston* and not by her first name. We know that as soon as Teyla became close to the others she started calling them by their first names. Dr. Houston may have just been perceptive enough to notice her interest in John and have brought it up, yet not been someone that Teyla would tell her dirty secrets to.

Have a wonderful day!

Doxymom

I love how you said this Anna! Great insight, thank you!

[NinaM]

Thanks Donna!!! The link isn't working for me for some reason, but thanks for the news!!! Let's hope we do get a 5th season AND that they'll do right by our characters!!!

This might work....

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a41...vd-movies.html

[LoveConquers]

JB? Nick? I'm gonna have to disagree here - and quite strongly. I've seen this kind of thing played out in three other fandoms before, and it's never pretty.

I'm always wary of using the word "betrayal" to describe the actions of a PTB. We, as fans of the show, are not entitled to anything from the writers/producers of a show, other than that a basic episode will be written, produced, and directed - no, we're not even entitled to a quality show.

We hope that they will produce something watchable, enjoyable, and dramatic; and we expect that they will do their best work. Our hopes and expectations may be disappointed, and often are. But we have not been betrayed when TPTB fail to give us our preferred ship. No, not even if they've been hinting at it from day one.

TPTB of a show are not always the only ones with a say in these decision. Sometimes edicts come from the production company about how things are going to play out (NBC, Heroes, and the Is Zach gay? fiasco). Sometimes actors don't want to develop a relationship due to personal reasons (ST:Voyager, Janeway's actress got married and wanted to play down the on-screen relationship between Janeway and Chakotay - and I'm sure that someone somewhere is presently reiterating the outrage of the ST:V Janeway/Chakotay/7of9 situation in SGA terms). It's not always about TPTB.

I haven't been to the Shweir thread, or any of the threads about (spoiler for S4 casting)

Spoiler:

Torri's recurring status, but I'll bet that "betrayal" is being thrown around quite a lot in there. "TPTB have betrayed us by not writing Shweir the way we wanted it!" and "The writers betrayed us by reducing Torri to recurring status!" And probably things much worse than that are also being said.

Entitlement Syndrome is a terrifying thing in all fans of all shows when taken to extremes.

Yes, we are fans of the show, but there are millions more viewers of the show, who don't care about pairings or character. Take away fandom, and we have maybe half a million people less watching the show. TPTB are not writing the show for us fans.

I love John/Teyla. I would love to see it in canon - a kiss here, a touch there, a relationship-between-the-gaps; but the odds are unlikely given these PTB and this show. And if we don't get it explicitly in canon, well, thems the breaks.

Even if we did get 'canonised', there would still be people complaining that it "came out of nowhere" and "wasn't true to the characters" and "made no sense". Because people are invested in a character or in a pairing, and nobody likes being proved wrong - those feelings have very little to do with TPTB, and everything to do with what people wanted to see, and where they placed their expectations.

Hey, I wanted to get Elizabeth/Ronon in canon, but I'd never expect it. I want to get John/Teyla in canon, but again, no expectations.

This is obviously my $0.02, YMMV (your mileage may vary), and we can't help what we feel - the feeling of being betrayed may persist in our emotions, although TPTB are still not obligated to give us what we want - but I believe we can stop ourselves from looking foolish and obsessive over it.

Sel.

I totally agree with you, Sel. I am always leery over people's sense of self-entitlement. I see way too much of this attitude from my clients and it never ceases to amaze me what people feel is owed them. I don't think that is quite what Nick or JB meant by their comments (?), but very good points and a very good reminder. Thank you!

[LoveConquers]

This might work....

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a41...vd-movies.html

Ah! That one worked! Thanks Nina!!!!

[Doxymom]

Thanks Donna!!! The link isn't working for me for some reason, but thanks for the news!!! Let's hope we do get a 5th season AND that they'll do right by our characters!!!

The link has http twice. Take out one and it works. Here's the pertinant part:

""We are committed to continuing to release new SG-1 content," said Charles Cohen, senior evp at MGM. "We're also steadfast in our dedication to extending the franchise. Stargate is an indelible brand for MGM and we will support it well into the future."

As well as Stargate Atlantis, which is likely to be recommissioned, MGM is also developing a new spinoff for broadcast in 2008."


Cool! Lots more time to develop John and Teyla's characters. :-)

******

Entitlement in fans, what a sticky subject. We were just discussing this on a writing list I'm on about Book Series and how some get hate mail for having the wrong things happen--like the whole Harry Potter thing.

Personally, I don't think writers of fiction or TV scripts owe the fans anything. It's true, I fall in love with certain characters and have opinions about what I'd like to happen to them, but I've decided to just relax and be happy to see what happens to them. Afterall, the PTB don't have to keep the characters I like.

So it's all good. :-)

Anyway, I'm happy with the slow buildup they're doing, particularly now that it's a little more overt. I'd love JT to get together but would prefer it be mostly off-screen with ocassional on-screen acknowlegement--which can be as simple as a sentence of dialogue or a shot of John sitting on Teyla's bed and putting his boots on. I don't think the show is really geared toward a lot of obvious on-screen romance. It would have had to start that way in the pilot, like Farscape did. The main plot of that show was the romance, while the main plot of SGA is the action.

That and I don't trust the current writers to do a good job with a big on-screen romance. Little acknowledgements are enough for me. The tie-in novels and my imagination can do the rest.

Sorry this was so long.

Doxy

[Doxymom]

Thanks, LC!

[bluealien]

""We are committed to continuing to release new SG-1 content," Charles Cohen, senior evp at MGM. "We're also steadfast in our dedication to extending the franchise. Stargate is an indelible brand for MGM and we will support it well into the future."

As well as Stargate Atlantis, which is likely to be recommissioned, MGM is also developing a new spinoff for broadcast in 2008."

Thats good to know.

Cool! Lots more time to develop John and Teyla's characters. :-)

******

Absolutely.

Entitlement in fans, what a sticky subject. We were just discussing this on a writing list I'm on about Book Series and how some get hate mail for having the wrong things happen--like the whole Harry Potter thing.

Personally, I don't think writers of fiction or TV scripts owe the fans anything. It's true, I fall in love with certain characters and have opinions about what I'd like to happen to them, but I've decided to just relax and be happy to see what happens to them. Afterall, the PTB don't have to keep the characters I like.

So it's all good. :-)

I completely agree - the amount of times that fans go balistic because they didnt get what they WANTED and then blame the PTB is quite astonishing. The writers and PTB cannot pander to what everyone wants - the show would be all over the place and still some would not be happy. I hear so many times, because we are fans of the show the tpb must do what we want - but they do not have to do anything the fans want - mainly because most fans want something different anyway - all they have to do is to try and give us the best show they can - and that can differ from what we want. But that is the nature of the business - we can only hope that the show gives us what we enjoy, and try to make the best of it - if it looks like its straying too far from what we enjoy then its our decision to move on - not to hurl abuse at the writers, characters and PTB becuse they are not giving us what we want.

So far I love the direction that Atlantis is taking and how the characters are being portrayed - sure there are things that I'm not so keen on and season 2 overall was a tad disappointing but it has improved considerably in season three and I am quite happy.

Anyway, I'm happy with the slow buildup they're doing, particularly now that it's a little more overt. I'd love JT to get together but would prefer it be mostly off-screen with ocassional on-screen acknowlegement--which can be as simple as a sentence of dialogue or a shot of John sitting on Teyla's bed and putting his boots on. I don't think the show is really geared toward a lot of obvious on-screen romance. It would have had to start that way in the pilot, like Farscape did. The main plot of that show was the romance, while the main plot of SGA is the action.

I'm very happy with the way tptb have handled the John/Teyla relationship so far and would love to see them get together but I agree that I would be perfectly happy to see their relationship pan out how you have described - a few moments here and there - John sitting on Teyla's bed - or just coming out of her room in the morning. I don't expect to see a full on romance ever on the show.

That and I don't trust the current writers to do a good job with a big on-screen romance. Little acknowledgements are enough for me. The tie-in novels and my imagination can do the rest.

Sorry this was so long.

Doxy

Yes little acknowlegements would be great - but so far the writers have surprised me in how well they have handled John and Teyla and I have faith that they could handle the next step just as well. Again I dont think we will ever see any big screen romance but the little acknowlegements are fine with me too. Joe and Rachel have such wonderful chemistry and are so naturel together that I think they could both show their perspective characters portraying a wonderful relationship without it ever appearing forced or over the top.

[NinaM]

I'm very happy with the way tptb have handled the John/Teyla relationship so far and would love to see them get together but I agree that I would be perfectly happy to see their relationship pan out how you have described - a few moments here and there - John sitting on Teyla's bed - or just coming out of her room in the morning. I don't expect to see a full on romance ever on the show.

I could very well go for something like this too... I have never expected SGA to have a full blown romance drama going on ... just as you say a moment here and there...


Yes little acknowlegements would be great - but so far the writers have surprised me in how well they have handled John and Teyla and I have faith that they could handle the next step just as well. Again I dont think we will ever see any big screen romance but the little acknowlegements are fine with me too. Joe and Rachel have such wonderful chemistry and are so naturel together that I think they could both show their perspective characters portraying a wonderful relationship without it ever appearing forced or over the top.

I could very well go for something like this too... I have never expected SGA to have a full blown romance drama going on ... just as you say a moment here and there...

I agree...the way Joe and Rachel portray their characters I don't think it would feel forced upon since they are so naturel together..and have a wonderful on screen chemistry...

They never have to fully write scenes to be like a soap opera but to give the little scenes and I'm sure Joe and Rachel as talented as they both are and so expressive when it comes to the emotional side they would be able to convey the romantic aspect out to the audience... both are wonderful in facial expressions and by expressing emotions through the eyes....
A romance that doesn't take over the plot,,are in the background, give us a moment here and there...I'm sure it could be done and in that way I'm sure the writers would be able to write it that way too...