Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Falcon Horus]

Has this planet started to turn in the opposite direction while I was gone?

Yes, it has. I already corrected myself a few posts up... Math was never my strong point.

[Anuna]

I have no excuse I am simply lazy.

[Eri13]

Yep he really did have zillion woobie faces in that ep!!! I just wrote my review in GitM thread. I was a bad girl

I had to go look at that, Anuna, just to see it. Bravo, well done!

Mini-rant on POV in general...

Spoiler:

I don't really speak negatively about other viewers just because I believe in allowing others their opinions freely and openly. And I don't knock other ships because I know that people can find shippy moments when they love two characters and look hard enough.

But I honestly don't understand the hate. I mean, some people just hate characters enough to just dismiss everything like it was nothing. Now, I can see the other side of an opposing shippers POV, for example (I prefer my interpretation, but that doesn't mean I can't see it their way, too. We're taught to argue and understand both (or multiple) sides in law.). I can see where people could argue

Spoiler:

Torren's middle name meant something, or the looks from John weren't a lover's reaction, just sadness at the loss of a very dear friend.

But to completely deny that those looks were there, that John's "what if one of them wanted to stay" meant nothing, the fact that she asked for him first, that look between them at the end, her face when he accused her of not being her, his face when she saved him...

THE FACT THAT HE STAYED AT THE END AND NEVER TURNED AWAY UNTIL THEY CUT TO HER FLOATING AWAY IN SPACE...

okay, I'm not making a good case for being that objective

But honestly--whether you believe that bond is just a strong platonic connection or rooted in deeper feelings that can't or haven't been acknowledged for one reason or another in canon, how do you ignore that the stuff is there?

How do people get it so skewed as to miss the significance of that? Especially if you're a fan of Joe F., or Rodney, or Carl Binder? How do you miss that wonderful acting, or deny it? Just cuz you hate Weir? That blows my mind. And makes me angry. I don't hate on characters, and I try to accept other people's opinions justly and fairly. But I just don't get it. I don't. *shakes head*

[Anuna]

I had to go look at that, Anuna, just to see it. Bravo, well done!

Mini-rant on POV in general...

Spoiler:

I don't really speak negatively about other viewers just because I believe in allowing others their opinions freely and openly. And I don't knock other ships because I know that people can find shippy moments when they love two characters and look hard enough.

But I honestly don't understand the hate. I mean, some people just hate characters enough to just dismiss everything like it was nothing. Now, I can see the other side of an opposing shippers POV, for example (I prefer my interpretation, but that doesn't mean I can't see it their way, too. We're taught to argue and understand both (or multiple) sides in law.). I can see where people could argue

Spoiler:

Torren's middle name meant something, or the looks from John weren't a lover's reaction, just sadness at the loss of a very dear friend.

But to completely deny that those looks were there, that John's "what if one of them wanted to stay" meant nothing, the fact that she asked for him first, that look between them at the end, her face when he accused her of not being her, his face when she saved him...

THE FACT THAT HE STAYED AT THE END AND NEVER TURNED AWAY UNTIL THEY CUT TO HER FLOATING AWAY IN SPACE...

okay, I'm not making a good case for being that objective

But honestly--whether you believe that bond is just a strong platonic connection or rooted in deeper feelings that can't or haven't been acknowledged for one reason or another in canon, how do you ignore that the stuff is there?

How do people get it so skewed as to miss the significance of that? Especially if you're a fan of Joe F., or Rodney, or Carl Binder? How do you miss that wonderful acting, or deny it? Just cuz you hate Weir? That blows my mind. And makes me angry. I don't hate on characters, and I try to accept other people's opinions justly and fairly. But I just don't get it. I don't. *shakes head*

Yep I agree with you.

Spoiler:

However I don't get the "Weir betrayed Atlantis" part and I had to react at that statement, because it simply isn't true. That one particular person seems to dislike Weir to an irrational point and well I reacted the way I did,. because she asked for it.

[muffinnuffin]

Definitely. Bring Morgan back for 5 minutes to pass the torch back to Torri, to whom it rightfully belongs. And bring Torri back full time for Season 6.

Damnit, I'm getting all depressed and angry again.



Yes, we so need this. I need something to get me out of this black funk I'm falling into.

Maybe it's time to write that Angry!John scene...

Weir = Doctor Who

Wow. That's all I have to say. What apprehension I had about the upcoming episode was misplaced. Carl Binder nailed it. It may have had some room for improvement in the storyline, but overall it was the most fulfilling, emotion packed and suspenseful episode in a very, very long time. It's been ages since we've seen such raw emotion on Atlantis, and I'll take it over CGI and big explosions any time.

Spoiler:

I loved how the power blacked out in the gateroom and everyone was centered around the laptop. And then, suddenly, in simple white on black text 'Who are you?'. 'Elizabeth Weir'. Black and white, that's as simple as it was. And powerful. Everyone could've disregarded it as some kind of virus or someone trying to set them up, but you could feel, right there on the surface, the wish that perhaps it somehow truly was Elizabeth. Then, with Teyla in the isolation room, when Teyla tells her about the child and Elizabeth wants to hug her, but suddenly faces two raised rifles. The painful distrust versus joy of hearing the happy news.

Spoiler:

..and the obviously for Elizabeth painful possibility that John was the father. It was quite unusual for Elizabeth to be so open and direct 'Wait, you're not saying John Sheppard is ...'. But given what she's been through and that she obviously at least cared a lot for him while she was in Atlantis, if not outright loved him, the reaction is very believable. Then in the corridor with Koracen, when Sheppard looses it a bit 'You may still think you're Elizabeth, but you're not.' You see the pain in Elizabeth at hearing this. Imagine, what she's been through and now, finally back with who she considers family and what she gets is such distrust. Then, the look on John's face when she saves him. It was obvious he was suddenly totally convinced it really was her. And there was the myriad of emotions on his face, so many you could not single out one in his experession - awe, surprise, resentment at himself, shock... It was at that moment that his demeanor for the rest of the episode completely changed. Like everything the he, very much John Sheppard-like, burried deep inside since she had been left behind, since he had left her behind, came welling up to the surface. I think that for the rest of the episode he's so close to bursting out, telling her everything, showing how happy he is that she's back. 'What if one of them decides to stay?' The final scene was IMHO one of the most emotional in SGA ever. There was no open show of emotion, but just underneath the surface, there were torrents of emotion. If TPTB completely screwed it up with Carson, they got it completely right here. Sheppard was completely in a world of his own, full of turmoil. He nearly chewed his lip off. From the order to proceede with the plan that would ultimately separate them from Elizabeth again, just when it had begun to sink in it was really her, perhaps to never see her again, to the end when she stepped through the stargate, he looked like he was ready to throw up. The eye contact with her just before she steps through, I think he barely holds it, because he's loosing her for the second time. And her look before she steps through, that really leaves nothing to imagination. And I think it's more than words can ever describe.

I really Applaud Carl Binder. He brought back SGA for me. And I Applaud Michelle Morgan. She nailed her role. She was Elizabeth Weir. As much as I love Torri, I really do, I must be honest and admit I would have no problem with Michelle Morgan playing Elizabeth. They may look different, but they are so alike...

I forgot to mention earlier how much I like MM's portrayal of Weir, and you summed it up nicely there. Ta

11am Pacific time... *goes in search for a timetable* ... That's GMT-7 so that makes GMT-8 for me... That's 3am... I'm asleep at that time of night.

Oh well... I can read the synopsis of the conversation, I guess.

Yeah, even accepting my new found student lifestyle wont have me at 3am watching Stargate AND forming coherant sentences. Although if its now at 7pm then thats fine. M*A*S*H can wait another day

Late evening for you is early morning for me. 2 am for you is 10 am for me. Falcon and myself are both in the Europe, and I think there's no time difference.

Same here (UK)

[Falcon Horus]

Yeah, even accepting my new found student lifestyle wont have me at 3am watching Stargate AND forming coherant sentences. Although if its now at 7pm then thats fine. M*A*S*H can wait another day

Like I already said... I miscalculated. It's not 3am - but 7pm instead.

[Eri13]

Yep I agree with you.

Spoiler:

However I don't get the "Weir betrayed Atlantis" part and I had to react at that statement, because it simply isn't true. That one particular person seems to dislike Weir to an irrational point and well I reacted the way I did,. because she asked for it.

She's been on my ignore list for a while.

I was surprised

Spoiler:

they took Elizabeth that far, enough to lie to John about guiding the other replicators to Atlantis--but I think Binder honed that element perfectly, first in the way she described being in limbo, and then in the exchange on the stairs, when he looks at her like 'you lied to me, and tells her she may think she's the real Elizabeth, but 'you're not'.

The look on her face was great, as though she realized she was betraying that better part of her in her desperation to live and be with the people she cared about. Like she went back to remembering why she stayed behind on Asuras. That exchange helped me to accept the space-gate ending and her decision to leave Atlantis again--it went back to that bond between her and John again, vocalized in Adrift, of her being the person who would never threaten the city, even if it meant her own life.

But to hate a character that much? How does that happen? What did the poor character ever do to you?

[muffinnuffin]

Like I already said... I miscalculated. It's not 3am - but 7pm instead.

GMT, or GMT+1?

[Southern Red]

I had to go look at that, Anuna, just to see it. Bravo, well done!

Mini-rant on POV in general...

Spoiler:

I don't really speak negatively about other viewers just because I believe in allowing others their opinions freely and openly. And I don't knock other ships because I know that people can find shippy moments when they love two characters and look hard enough.

But I honestly don't understand the hate. I mean, some people just hate characters enough to just dismiss everything like it was nothing. Now, I can see the other side of an opposing shippers POV, for example (I prefer my interpretation, but that doesn't mean I can't see it their way, too. We're taught to argue and understand both (or multiple) sides in law.). I can see where people could argue

Spoiler:

Torren's middle name meant something, or the looks from John weren't a lover's reaction, just sadness at the loss of a very dear friend.

But to completely deny that those looks were there, that John's "what if one of them wanted to stay" meant nothing, the fact that she asked for him first, that look between them at the end, her face when he accused her of not being her, his face when she saved him...

THE FACT THAT HE STAYED AT THE END AND NEVER TURNED AWAY UNTIL THEY CUT TO HER FLOATING AWAY IN SPACE...

okay, I'm not making a good case for being that objective

But honestly--whether you believe that bond is just a strong platonic connection or rooted in deeper feelings that can't or haven't been acknowledged for one reason or another in canon, how do you ignore that the stuff is there?

How do people get it so skewed as to miss the significance of that? Especially if you're a fan of Joe F., or Rodney, or Carl Binder? How do you miss that wonderful acting, or deny it? Just cuz you hate Weir? That blows my mind. And makes me angry. I don't hate on characters, and I try to accept other people's opinions justly and fairly. But I just don't get it. I don't. *shakes head*

Welcome to my world. You know I sometimes see other ships when the rest of you don't but I've never seen anything that wasn't there. lol

But the overwhelming sameness of the reviews backs up our perception this time.

I could even at some point in S10 accept John with someone else, but it's the absolute burning hate that comes through that bothers me. *bets we'll get modded*

[Anuna]

She's been on my ignore list for a while.

I was surprised

Spoiler:

they took Elizabeth that far, enough to lie to John about guiding the other replicators to Atlantis--but I think Binder honed that element perfectly, first in the way she described being in limbo, and then in the exchange on the stairs, when he looks at her like 'you lied to me, and tells her she may think she's the real Elizabeth, but 'you're not'.

The look on her face was great, as though she realized she was betraying that better part of her in her desperation to live and be with the people she cared about. Like she went back to remembering why she stayed behind on Asuras. That exchange helped me to accept the space-gate ending and her decision to leave Atlantis again--it went back to that bond between her and John again, vocalized in Adrift, of her being the person who would never threaten the city, even if it meant her own life.

But to hate a character that much? How does that happen? What did the poor character ever do to you?

Threaten your ship of choice.


Btw Sparkies?

62 000 posts!!!

Paaaartyyy!!!!

[muffinnuffin]

Threaten your ship of choice.


Btw Sparkies?

62 000 posts!!!

Paaaartyyy!!!!

Reminds me of when I got red-ed for taking a point away from Ronan/Teyla in the great Ship War Thread a few months back...

Party time??? *cues up fresh baked muffins*

[justhere1971]

I can do Sunday 2 PM Eastern for the episode re-watch. Wahoo!

[justhere1971]

Welcome to my world. You know I sometimes see other ships when the rest of you don't but I've never seen anything that wasn't there. lol

But the overwhelming sameness of the reviews backs up our perception this time.

I could even at some point in S10 accept John with someone else, but it's the absolute burning hate that comes through that bothers me. *bets we'll get modded*

What irritates me the most is when the obvious other ship preference people pull the "your opinion is invalid, because you prefer ....". TICKS me off!

GitM thread if you take the regular reviewers view - overwhelmingly supports the bond that was evident between John & Elizabeth. So when non-ship ppl see it, what does it really say?

[Reiko]

» So, with the timezones - why don't we make a Sparky Time Zone Map similar to the Anti Time Zone Map?

» Sparky Map here. I already transferred the locations of the peeps on this thread from the Anti map.

[Southern Red]

What irritates me the most is when the obvious other ship preference people pull the "your opinion is invalid, because you prefer ....". TICKS me off!

GitM thread if you take the regular reviewers view - overwhelmingly supports the bond that was evident between John & Elizabeth. So when non-ship ppl see it, what does it really say?

Yep, I just made another perfectly logical post over there.

And
62000 posts

The year of the sparky rolls on!