Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

i think that elizaBeth tried to redeem herself with what happened with John in the corridor "you may Be elizaBeth But your not her" or whatever the line was. i still think lifeline was Better than this episode But this had a lot of sparky in it.

[Anuna]

i think that elizaBeth tried to redeem herself with what happened with John in the corridor "you may Be elizaBeth But your not her" or whatever the line was. i still think lifeline was Better than this episode But this had a lot of sparky in it.

Yep I agree with you! That's where fan fiction kicks in, and like always, JF gives us tons of sparky worthy material.

[Eri13]

Spoiler:

There's that, too. Fans are already up in arms over how Torri was forced off the show; bringing Weir back full-time without Torri would be the worst kind of slap in the face to Torri and to the fans.

But then, TPTB have done plenty of Grade-A Stupid things before, so pulling that kind of stunt would just be par for the course.

Yeah, actually the general response in the review thread is already pretty much how people liked MM but they missed Torri. Hopefully, for fans of Weir, that's the general consensus and it will show.

Ok so...

Spoiler:

Definitely not human body, but this could be the real-real weir conciousness? That does seem plausible, cause she was part replicator so she could easily be downloaded like everyone else. the repli Liz we met in s4 was different, it wasn't our real-real Weir conciousness but this could be. Interesting...I will be watching where this goes.

Also

Spoiler:

i like the idea of Liz fighting her way back to Atlantis...logical person that she is, getting back into the computers...but at the same time part of me feels she's still out there, light-years away trying to get back home, body and all. Hmm...yeah i like that idea.

Spoiler:

Okay they just went and made Elizabeth being human possible. WOW. How would that work? I don't understand how but I LOVE IT. OMG Carl Binder I love you.

I just feel like screaming.

Spoiler:

SPARKY!!!!!!!!

all the time.

So. Here's my idea.

Spoiler:

They probably have Elizabeth's DNA stored somewhere. If nothing there's that jar sitting in John's room with some of Old Liz ashes inside. It's a very stretched idea, but some DNA might be in there. So that's how they could clone her and bring her back. Rebirth anyone? She deserves it in full glory.

Hmm...

Spoiler:

Don't know if they could do it from the ashes, I would think the heat necessary to reduce a body to ashes would have damaged the DNA. But blood and tissue samples in storage in the infirmary? That could so work!

Answer to all the questions:

Spoiler:

1) How would it work? Well, in the episode, when Elizabeth tells the group her plan to 'reform' her people, she says basically that the replicators have the skill and technology needed to be able to make the human bodies. Though Rodney says it's not possible for Atlantis at the time, Elizabeth tells him that she and her other replicators have the resources and the ability to do it. So presumably, whatever they can do involves a much more advanced version of the nanite organic regeneration capabilities McKay was trying to program in Adrift (though they weren't allowed to officially 'replicate', so it's not replication.)

With Elizabeth's body, that's an easy answer. Elizabeth's consciousness exists, so recreating her own body is easy. I don't even think you need the DNA. I think you can have her create her own body from scratch without needing the DNA samples. But yes, infirmary samples are definitely a good way to solve the problem.

People who wanted 'original' Weir back may be a little disappointed, but contrary to what I was feeling after This Mortal Coil, I'm not upset about the potential of a new Weir body being recreated--so I can accept that the consciousness possessing FRAN in GITM was indeed the real Elizabeth. After TMC, I felt like she was a copy, and that it was never the real Elizabeth anywhere--that she was still lost out there or, more horribly, that she'd been killed off camera.

Here, because she explained about the non-nanite human form--one that would look exactly like Elizabeth--and that her mind could possess it, I felt like it would be no different than Daniel ascending and descending. Originally Daniel died in "Meridian" but his consciousness reformed afterwards in a new body reformed after he descended. Here, with Elizabeth, it would be essentially the same thing, so I'm okay to accept that this was, in fact, the real Weir.

[Scary Kitty]

Yes exactly, so there you go. I think Carson stored everybody's DNA samples because Pegasus is just a very strange place to be. You need to have some way to check if someone really is the person he/she claims to be. The jar idea is just ebcause I'm totally, romantically sappy.

Yup. Of course, as we've seen with all the clone stuff these past two years... even DNA isn't enough to determine who the "original" is. (What can I say, I'm still giggling my butt off over the two McKays finishing each other's sentences in TMC).

Ohhhhh, the jar. Love the jar. Worship the jar. In my personal canon, Teyla frakin' kept the jar after she and Ronon packed up the stuff from Elizabeth's office, and as Elizabeth's BFF, she's just waiting for the right time to give it to John because Teyla knows that John, Elizabeth's husband, should have the jar that he gave her as a memento of his wife but he's still hurting too much right now. Yeah. Teyla is soooo a Sparky shipper, damnit.

[Scary Kitty]

Yeah, actually the general response in the review thread is already pretty much how people liked MM but they missed Torri. Hopefully, for fans of Weir, that's the general consensus and it will show.

I hope they spam Mallozzi's blog with that, too.

BTW, Eri, you might want to fix your spoiler tags...
ETA: Nevermind, fixed now.

Answer to all the questions:

Spoiler:

1) How would it work? Well, in the episode, when Elizabeth tells the group her plan to 'reform' her people, she says basically that the replicators have the skill and technology needed to be able to make the human bodies. Though Rodney says it's not possible for Atlantis at the time, Elizabeth tells him that she and her other replicators have the resources and the ability to do it. So presumably, whatever they can do involves a much more advanced version of the nanite organic regeneration capabilities McKay was trying to program in Adrift (though they weren't allowed to officially 'replicate', so it's not replication.)

With Elizabeth's body, that's an easy answer. Elizabeth's consciousness exists, so recreating her own body is easy. I don't even think you need the DNA. I think you can have her create her own body from scratch without needing the DNA samples. But yes, infirmary samples are definitely a good way to solve the problem.

People who wanted 'original' Weir back may be a little disappointed, but contrary to what I was feeling after This Mortal Coil, I'm not upset about the potential of a new Weir body being recreated--so I can accept that the consciousness possessing FRAN in GITM was indeed the real Elizabeth. After TMC, I felt like she was a copy, and that it was never the real Elizabeth anywhere--that she was still lost out there or, more horribly, that she'd been killed off camera.

Here, because she explained about the non-nanite human form--one that would look exactly like Elizabeth--and that her mind could possess it, I felt like it would be no different than Daniel ascending and descending. Originally Daniel died in "Meridian" but his consciousness reformed afterwards in a new body reformed after he descended. Here, with Elizabeth, it would be essentially the same thing, so I'm okay to accept that this was, in fact, the real Weir.

I think I could live with that.

Spoiler:

In this way, it would indeed be like a "virtual" ascension and a return from it, as we were speculating on ever since we first started hearing story details on GitMo.

Whoo, I'm starting to calm down about this episode now!

[Anuna]

SK - I'm the biggest freak out and pessimist here (well me and SR) and I'm feeling good. Because we have sparky, yes we do!

[SoulSpinder]

okie sparkies. Mum plans on getting me up in less then six hours so I should probably head towards bed... but before I go , since we seem to be in a musical mood... I shall leave parts of lyrics that I find is just kinda appropriate for tonight's ep.

Spoiler:

I would like to visit you for a while
Get away and out of this city
Maybe I shouldn't have called but
Someone had to be the first to break
We can go sit on your back porch
Relax
Talk about anything
It don't matter
I'll be courageous if you can pretend
That you've forgiven me

'Cause I don't know you anymore
I don't recognise this place
The picture frames have changed
And so has your name
We don't talk much anymore
We keep running from the pain
But what I wouldn't give to see your face again

Springtime in the city
Always such a relief from winter freeze
The snow was more lonely than cold if you know what I mean
Everyone's got an agenda
Don't stop keep that chin up you'll be alright
Can you believe what a year it's been
Are you still the same?
Has your opinion changed?

'Cause I don't know you anymore
I don't recognise this place
The picture frames have changed
And so has your name
We don't talk much anymore
We keep running from these sentences
But what I wouldn't give to see your face again

I know I let you down
Again and again
I know I never really treated you right
I've paid the price
I'm still paying for it every day

So maybe I shouldn't have called
Was it too soon to tell?
Oh what the hell
It doesn't really matter
How do you redefine something that never really had a name?
Has your opinion changed?

'Cause I don't know you anymore
I don't recognise this place
The picture frames have changed
And so has your name
We don't talk much anymore
We keep running from the pain
But what I wouldn't give to see your face again

I see your face
I see your face

[Ruined_puzzle]

I have to go too but I don't want to. Ack. I hope tomorrow there are just as much pages are there was today maybe more because there were only a couple of people who watched GITM today. I want youtube clips and picspams tomorrow.

[Eri13]

SK - I'm the biggest freak out and pessimist here (well me and SR) and I'm feeling good. Because we have sparky, yes we do!

Schyeah, wait until you see the pics! *wibbles at the John faces* You'll feel even better.

Okay, sparkies, I'm now truthfully tired, so I think I'll sign off for real this time. I hope most people were satisfied or at least found something redeeming in it. For what it could have been, I'm satisfied and rather pleased. I bow to Carl Binder (those in favor of a care package, keep me in the loop, PM me or something) and Joe Flanigan, who I felt put his heart into this episode. And Michelle Morgan, for doing her best to keep Lizbeth alive and real.

Still a bit sad because this will always come coupled with the regret that canon-wise, they had to change things from what I loved before. But this ending is great for fanon if people choose to go that way--plus we still have Sparky sailing on in canon, too, which means pictures, sigs, vids, icons, and the lot--and you can't ask for better than that.

EDIT: Okay, you can, you can get Torri back...but for now, anyway, and considering what we feared it might have been4 hours ago, it's good enough.

[Ruined_puzzle]

Last thing before I go in the pre-discussion thread they were talking about sparky. WIN!!!!

[Scary Kitty]

SK - I'm the biggest freak out and pessimist here (well me and SR) and I'm feeling good. Because we have sparky, yes we do!

Heh, I'll probably go into mega freak out mode again when I finally do see GitMo (hmm, are we still calling it GitMo, or are we back to just calling it GitM?), but I think I'm okay for now.

*points at sig* Elizabeth is still out there, damnit.

[Scary Kitty]

I have to go too but I don't want to. Ack. I hope tomorrow there are just as much pages are there was today maybe more because there were only a couple of people who watched GITM today. I want youtube clips and picspams tomorrow.

YES! I must have clips! I'm gonna burst without some clips!

[Anuna]

Yes we win big time!



Sparky is never ending!

[Scary Kitty]

Last thing before I go in the pre-discussion thread they were talking about sparky. WIN!!!!

Quick, everyone go over to the pre-discussion thread and start greening everyone who was making pro-Sparky comments!

[Anuna]

I'm still calling it GITMO and SK, for the record, you were right! *adores your sig*