Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Falcon Horus]

OOO! LEMMING! Can I pet the Lemming? *puppy eyes*

At your own risk... ... Kidding! I'm a very sweet little lemming.

Those wascally wemmings turn up everywhere

They so do.

[Pajus]

Wow. That's longer than an entire ep (they say 50-60 pages, but their definition of a page is fairly generous).

The script for This Mortal Coil had 76 pages (source: The blog of death, doom and despair)

[Southern Red]

Spoiler:

*peeks head in* Hello. I've been watching this thread for awhile & thought I should finally introduce myself. My name's Jamie and I'm a relatively new Atlantis fan, been obsessed for about 5 months now. I actually saw my first few episodes of Stargate Atlantis last year though. I honestly can't remember which episode I caught first... it was either the end of "Rising" (and then "38 Minutes") or "Lifeline"... but I was immediately drawn to Sparky. The infimary scene in "38 Minutes" and "Lifeline" made an especially big impact. I totally didn't know what was going on in "Lifeline" though, didn't know Elizabeth wasn't coming back... thought for sure John would be going back for her later, because it was obvious to me that they had something going on. Afterwards I found out from a friend though that Elizabeth wasn't going to be on the show anymore... so I decided I wasn't going to watch anymore of it because I'd already previously invested seven years into another tv series only to have my shipper heart ripped out and stomped on.

Then earlier this year, I heard that (putting this behind a spoiler thing, although I think most people know by now)

Spoiler:

Robert Picardo would be joining the show as a regular cast member. I love Robert Picardo, he played one of my favorite characters on Star Trek: Voyager...

So I decided I would get the DVDs and try to catch up before Season 5 started, because I figured that at least there would be something to look forward to now. And I told myself not to get too attached to Elizabeth. Umm, yeah... right. So that totally didn't work, of course, and my favorite thing about the show continued to be the moments between John and Elizabeth... and instead of looking forward to the new changes, I was dreading them.

So I got up to the dreaded moment and it broke my heart (yeah, I know it's "just a tv show", but I take my tv seriously). I will never understand why they felt it necessary to do it, to me... she was like the light of Atlantis. The moment she was gone, there was a big hole.

I'm caught up now (I'd been avoiding the forum until I had)... but it's not the show I fell in love with anymore. But regardless of what I feel it is now, I'm really glad I took the plunge. We have 3 beautiful seasons, which is longer than a lot of series get in their whole run... so my muse can happily live and play there. I haven't fallen this hard for a pairing since my original OTP (Janeway/Chakotay, from Star Trek: Voyager)... and I've been shipping them for over 12 years.

Lol, sorry, I'm not usually this wordy. This post ended up longer than most of my fics. I just wanted to say that I'm looking forward to chatting with you guys. As I mentioned before, I've been lurking for awhile and have been enjoying the discussions and fun (yay for motivators!) going on. I think other people are tiring of me talking about Atlantis & John/Elizabeth. It will be nice to talk with people who care, lol.

Spoiler:

Welcome. It really makes me happy to know we are still gaining members. And it makes me sad to know the newbies don't get to enjoy the heady golden days when we thought Sparky would be canon any minute. But the way you and others describe how obvious it was just proves we are the ones who made it canon.

I hope that makes sense. I have an antihistamine hangover and there's not enough coffee in Virginia to get me functioning today.

Don't worry hun. You're not alone. It took me a half hour of walking and crying, many hugs, and a round or two of a violent video game to get me to stop sobbing after TMC... You should have seen me after we found out the REALLY sucky news. THere's still one song I can't listen to without getting depressed because it reminds me of it.

So long story short, we hear ya!



OOO! LEMMING! Can I pet the Lemming? *puppy eyes*

Been working on trying to finish the sparky vid I started in July '07. x.x Yes. That long ago. Yes, I'm still not satisfied. And yes, I still have one line I dunno what to use for clips... *Dies*

Give us the line. Maybe we can offer a suggestion.

» Fic made me like it helluva lot more

» Oh, and I uploaded the first 52 seconds of my Bring Me to Life Elizabeth/Sparky/TRW viddie onto my PB. A lot of the beats are off and keyed wrong and I need to 'widescreen' the whole thing, but that's been fixed and I'm rather satisfied with the first (almost) minute.

» Link: Clicky, yo!

Great start. I love the technique you are using. I may steal it for my next vid. I know how much work it takes to be so creative. Lovely job.

[Anuna]

A quick reminder! We have Sparkyawards people! And you can start nominating now!!!!!

Go! Make your voices heard and Sparky authors proud! You can nominate fics, fanart and videos!!!

[SoulSpinder]

Reiko- wonderful start. I'm anxious to see more. You've got some editing chops you do!

Most other fics (on other pairings)I've read seem to have the same premise too (drunk or jumping).

Yup. It's not just a problem with sparky, sadly.

Falcon - YAY! *goes to pet lemming...and is bit.* OW! ;.; I never agreed with tPtB! *sniffle*

Pajus- Love the name of the source. Quite accurate, too.

Southern Red - "All I ever wanted was for you to know everything I do I give my heart and soul."/ John's words. ((yes I realize this song has been used for just about everything out there including sparky...but I started mine first darn it. X.o))

Anuna- Yay! Awards! *clickness* Thanks for the reminder!

[Falcon Horus]

Falcon - YAY! *goes to pet lemming...and is bit.* OW! ;.; I never agreed with tPtB! *sniffle*

Must have been hungry... Sorry! Won't do it again.

[Southern Red]

<snippy>

Southern Red - "All I ever wanted was for you to know everything I do I give my heart and soul."/ John's words. ((yes I realize this song has been used for just about everything out there including sparky...but I started mine first darn it. X.o))

Oooh, a challenge. *thinking* I love that moment in TOR by

Spoiler:

Rodney's bedside when John looks at her so soulfully. Or one of the scenes in TMC when he looks at her with his heart in his eyes would work.

[Eri13]

After this episode it will be vitally important that those of us who watch go on the episode threat and comment. Judging by the posts on the Michelle Morgan interview article, the Weir haters will be out in force along with all their socks. Even if we hate it, we must go and defend Torri/Elizabeth.

I agree. I shall brave the waters if the episode is good.

TO THE SPARKY THREAD;

Logic to emotion….logic goes with emotion in my case especially where Sparky is concerned....*cut for length*

As I mentioned before, I understand your point of view. I'm not going to try and beat a dead horse, but I almost feel like people who aren't watching are being criticized for being irrational. That's unfair. This isn't a matter of one person being more rational or open-minded than others. Everyone is different, it doesn't mean they don't all have legitimate reasons for deciding to do what they do. Every person thinks different, or has different reasons for believing what they do. And for people of equivalent intelligence, all reasons should be considered and appreciated. And respected...

Spoiler:

I think you can ask two questions about any show: 1) Why do you watch the show? and 2) Is it good enough to carry when it alters that? On the first point, we've had that answered in various ways. Fans like it for all sorts of things. Some prefer characters, some prefer the whole cast. Heck, some people prefer the tech, and could care less about the characters.

But is it good enough to carry on without what you like? For me, it wasn't. That's just my personal opinion--based on my own analysis--of the quality of the show. I promise you I did not make this choice in a fit of pro-Elizabeth hysterics. And I have tried not to speak ill about the writers and producers--they're entitled to do as they wish. And we wouldn't have what we have without their original ideas. I wrote a blog post arguing my support of Weir on Joe Mallozzi's blog the day before it was announced Torri wasn't returning. I promise I have thought this out. But I can't compare SGA to other series I watch--it doesn't have the merit, in my opinion, of a show like "LOST" or "X-Files"--and because it disappointed me, for reasons I've already stated, I don't feel compelled to watch anymore. I don't see the greatness others see in the storylines. That's just me. If you do, good for you. But don't assume that people are 'missing out' on something wonderful because they choose not to go forward. Some people might never have thought it was all that wonderful to begin with, just that it had wonderful parts.

As for this thread--we actually do discuss. I'm probably one of the ones who likes discussing the most and I try to stimulate it. But when one of your OTP is dead in the canon, it's a bit difficult to debate what 'so and so' scene meant in Season 5. This is a thread celebrating Elizabeth and John. Elizabeth is gone. Most people here spent years discussing their chances with vigor, but there's only so much you can do when the story grinds to a halt in canon. We're not all on the same page in our love of fanon. So we celebrate the best we can. I'm sure you'll see that type of discussion after GITM--I'll be doing it--because it's the one show that will have an Elizabeth theme. But for now, the best we can do is celebrate what was there canon-wise, and let those who wish to celebrate the fanon aspect of the couple celebrate it.

*peeks head in* Hello.

Hello, and welcome! We love seeing new people!

[justhere1971]

I agree. I shall brave the waters if the episode is good.

As I mentioned before, I understand your point of view. I'm not going to try and beat a dead horse, but I almost feel like people who aren't watching are being criticized for being irrational. That's unfair. This isn't a matter of one person being more rational or open-minded than others. Everyone is different, it doesn't mean they don't all have legitimate reasons for deciding to do what they do. Every person thinks different, or has different reasons for believing what they do. And for people of equivalent intelligence, all reasons should be considered and appreciated. And respected...

Spoiler:

I think you can ask two questions about any show: 1) Why do you watch the show? and 2) Is it good enough to carry when it alters that? On the first point, we've had that answered in various ways. Fans like it for all sorts of things. Some prefer characters, some prefer the whole cast. Heck, some people prefer the tech, and could care less about the characters.

But is it good enough to carry on without what you like? For me, it wasn't. That's just my personal opinion--based on my own analysis--of the quality of the show. I promise you I did not make this choice in a fit of pro-Elizabeth hysterics. And I have tried not to speak ill about the writers and producers--they're entitled to do as they wish. And we wouldn't have what we have without their original ideas. I wrote a blog post arguing my support of Weir on Joe Mallozzi's blog the day before it was announced Torri wasn't returning. I promise I have thought this out.

But after 4 1/2 seasons--and I did watch, loyally, through Midway--the writing did not convince me that I should continue. I never watched SGA for its critical merit. This show isn't a "LOST" or an "X-Files". To me, they're just not comparable. As far as I was concerned, SGA and SG-1 were escapism that featured characters that had some wonderful qualities, which I very much appreciated. And which I was hoping to see continued. But when they dropped the characters I liked, and treated those characters as though they'd never had an impact, that was it for me--the story failed me. I wasn't watching because every SGA plotline wowed me with it's brilliance and kept me riveted to my seat. If I fail to like it now, it's not because I don't see the 'greatness' that it is. It's because, in my opinion, it was never one of those shows that was 'great' it was fun and enjoyable--and the enjoyable part is no longer there. The shell of what it was remained, and in the end that's what turned me off. New characters, new faces, same type of story. Someone's kidnapped. Someone's possessed. Someone's betrayed. Someone has a hard time leading. Someone threatens the city. Until that changes, I'm not terribly compelled to watch.

As for this thread--we actually do discuss. I'm probably one of the ones who likes discussing the most and I try to stimulate it. But when one of your OTP is dead in the canon, it's a bit difficult to debate what 'so and so' scene meant in Season 5. This is a thread celebrating Elizabeth and John. Elizabeth is gone. Most people here spent years discussing their chances with vigor, but there's only so much you can do when the story grinds to a halt in canon. We're not all on the same page in our love of fanon. So we celebrate the best we can. I'm sure you'll see that type of discussion after GITM--I'll be doing it--because it's the one show that will have an Elizabeth theme. But for now, the best we can do is celebrate what was there canon-wise, and let those who wish to celebrate the fanon aspect of the couple celebrate it.

Hello, and welcome! We love seeing new people!

Eri, I just wanted to pop my head in and say I completely agree. It's not fair to the fans who feel their show has changed after Elizabeth is gone/dead. And it has changed. Drastically. It's not the same show as it was 2/3 years ago.

If you are a person who is able to enjoy and move on, so be it Anjirika. Good for you! However, tt's not your place to force your view and disrespect the people on this thread. I am sure most will agree that you are welcome to discuss sparky with us as long as you wish, no matter how stale the material is. The point is, that's all we have. Some of us chose to stick around and analyze it all the same. We are not quite there, where we can completely disregard Elizabeth's fate and move on. Remember we still have folks who are new to the show, and still discovering the wonders of Sparky. To them it's not stale material, rather fresh. It's wonderful to me to see new people discovering them. It's like the the first time my light bulb went on while watching them on screen. So for them, I will still be hanging around, and beating the dead horse.

I am one of the ones who still watch. It's not the same show at all. I've taken the view that I am watching something entirely different. Even the cast that has been on for years, are acting differently. It's easy for me to imagine that this is not the same SGA, rather a remake of the old one.

SR - I will visit the episode discussion thread. It's been a while.

Also, A HUGE welcome to CaptJamieway (by the way love the clever play on your user name)

[Southern Red]

Eri, I just wanted to pop my head in and say I completely agree. It's not fair to the fans who feel their show has changed after Elizabeth is gone/dead. And it has changed. Drastically. It's not the same show as it was 2/3 years ago.

If you are a person who is able to enjoy and move on, so be it Anjirika. Good for you! However, tt's not your place to force your view and disrespect the people on this thread. I am sure most will agree that you are welcome to discuss sparky with us as long as you wish, no matter how stale the material is. The point is, that's all we have. Some of us chose to stick around and analyze it all the same. We are not quite there, where we can completely disregard Elizabeth's fate and move on. Remember we still have folks who are new to the show, and still discovering the wonders of Sparky. To them it's not stale material, rather fresh. It's wonderful to me to see new people discovering them. It's like the the first time my light bulb went on while watching them on screen. So for them, I will still be hanging around, and beating the dead horse.

I am one of the ones who still watch. It's not the same show at all. I've taken the view that I am watching something entirely different. Even the cast that has been on for years, are acting differently. It's easy for me to imagine that this is not the same SGA, rather a remake of the old one.

SR - I will visit the episode discussion thread. It's been a while.

Also, A HUGE welcome to CaptJamieway (by the way love the clever play on your user name)

Very well said Eri and justhere. I am one of the few who watches and still enjoys the show. I too am looking at it as a new show with some of the same actors. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to stand it. We all have different ways of judging a show. A lot of people love BSG, but I have never been able to make it through even one. For that matter, some of the most popular shows on are the reality shows. I'd rather be stabbed in the eye than watch those. So, we all differ. But here we come together in our love of Sparky and will just have to find someone to discuss S4 and S5 with elsewhere.

[Eri13]

Very well said Eri and justhere. I am one of the few who watches and still enjoys the show. I too am looking at it as a new show with some of the same actors. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to stand it. We all have different ways of judging a show. A lot of people love BSG, but I have never been able to make it through even one. For that matter, some of the most popular shows on are the reality shows. I'd rather be stabbed in the eye than watch those. So, we all differ. But here we come together in our love of Sparky and will just have to find someone to discuss S4 and S5 with elsewhere.

HERE HERE! *slaps hand down in agreement* I can't stand reality shows! (sorry, reality show lovers). I was in a state of depression from the late 90's through the first few years of the 2000's. I've never been able to watch any of them. I'm too much of a story lover. (And having worked in 'live tv' for four years, I can tell you, nothing is 'live' and nothing is 'real').

[SoulSpinder]

Eri, And it has changed. Drastically. It's not the same show as it was 2/3 years ago.

It really has. One of my friends who actually doesn't really care about Weir turned to me one day and went: "You know...since Carson, it started to shift, but since Weir left, it's been so different. It's not so much fun." Not to say that event specifically triggered the change. but it was a factor. So much so both of us didn't really make it a priority to make sure we were tuning in.

This is the first time since "The Eye" That I've missed two episodes in a row and didn't rush to watch them. Never thought I'd see that happen.

But this is making people uneasy. Even Rodney. Look!


Rodney: Have you guys heard the guys and gals at the sparky thread? They sound like they're throwing in the towel!
Lizbeth: *Gasp* no...
Sheppard: ...Well that can't be good. *worries*
Rodney: I'll say! At this rate they'll roam over to the McShep thread!
Sheppard: *thinks* Where can I take 'Lizbeth to prove them wrong that won't get us both fired?

[Falcon Horus]

Rodney: I'll say! At this rate they'll roam over to the McShep thread!

KATE/JOHN FTW!! ... instead of McShep ey...

Anyway, what was the subject again...

[Anuna]

A huge thank you to Eri, SR and justhere. I discovered sparky when S3 was coming to an end. The news of Elizabeth being kicked out was public knowledge and I knew it even before I started watching. I didn't want to ship anyone in SGA and ended up being active in a fandom for the first time. So take a guess just how much I loved this pairing at the very beginning and still love it. I still write for it and I'm still having fun while doing so.

So I think it's unfair to ask me to drop something I really truly love and enjoy (when there's no writer's block) and embrace something else just because it's new, or because it's on TV or someone said so. That is totally, completely unfair, because I feel like I need to justify and argument why I like something and don't like something else. Like I mentioned before it's like with eating snails and snakes, in some countries those are specialties, other people wouldn't eat that even in a dream. It's the matter of taste and preference and it's subjective. Why should I keep justifying my liking for something? The fact is - I shouldn't need to do it, and when it comes to sparky, this is the last place why I should keep telling and repeating why I like them and why I don't like Atlantis sans sparky. Is that so hard to understand?

Now, I am one of those stubborn people who won't pack their things and leave. Sparky may not bee on screen, but there are three seasons of goodness, references in S4 and we might get some material to work with and tweak it to our pleasure now in Season five. And May I be so bold and say Atlantis will never leave Elizabeth's shadow? Yes there are people who outright dislike her but I think there are more people who like her and miss her, not like most of us here do and with that same intensity, but still. There are lot of regular viewers who think she should have stayed as the full cast member.

I won't go again into how unfairly Torri had been treated debate. If the fact that the actress herself said she's been treated badly isn't enough for someone, then I suggest read the sentence again. And then again. And again. It means exactly what it says. The woman has been treated badly, in fact so badly that she refused to go back to the job she loved doing. Actually there is a whole interview. If someone wants to take everything into consideration, and be objective about transitory nature of the job, don't just stick to JM's blog. Lots of people, some actors included, disagree. JF himself didn't seem to be very pleased back when S4 started (does anyone have the link to what he said at those two cons last year?) and judging from what was said about this years comic con, he wasn't very enthusiastic this year either. Things gone badly in the wonderland?

At the end of the day sparky will be out there as long as the sparky fans are out there. As long as fics are being written and the pairing is celebrated in some way, sparky is there. It's fiction. If there weren't any sparky fans to begin with back when SGA started airing, there would be no sparky. See? Simple. The show might start something, the fans take it and make it happen in many brilliant and creative ways. (At this point I'd like to remind people that some pairings, like McShep, shouldn't exist if we were strictly canonites. But you can't respect that from people. Everyone is different and that is the beauty. Tolerance may be the highest virtue for human beings to achieve).

The cool thing about said fiction is that huge amount of people and not just the show makers are capable of producing and publishing that fiction. (Another cool thing about fiction is that it's fiction and not reality. So stop asking me am I in some unhealthy state of denial because I still like sparky. This is fiction. I'm free to go where my imagination takes me, thank you.) We all do it for different reasons. I myself feel I still have stories to tell. They aren't just two pretty people to me - anyone who read things I've written could read that between the lines, especially in TSM - thank you everyone for recent mentioning of that story. I never put so much of myself in any story and it wasn't easy.

Finally, this thread operates under premise of tolerance. We have people who like and respect canon, we have fanon rebels like me, we even have people who don't ship Sparky but still like discussion and people going on here. Everyone is welcome, as long as you don't outright insult others or disrespect the other posters. People know I'm nice but I think it's also known I can bite if someone steps on my toes or tries force feeding me with something I don't like or agree with. I was never a fan of policing the thread - any thread. There are people here, including me, who are doing their best to keep this thread going. Don't insult us or anybody here. We are here to have fun. That is the main point of this or any other thread on this forum.

Peace in the galaxy, humans. I had a really long day and I need fluff and punching bag.

[Anuna]

And another thing, since I'm punching the virtual bag here...

My biggest fear for GItMo?

Spoiler:

That they will kill Liz. Again. That they will have John kill her. And that all of you, whom I love, and with whom I enjoy discussing this amazing pairing - and if I catch some time, I'll type you just why I love them so much and it will be a lengthy post - will go away and nobody will come to this thread any more. That would break my heart. Not the episode itself but all of you leaving.

Please don't leave Sparky. *cries*

Yes, I seriously don't feel well. Very stressed out right now. Sparky hugs, please??? *bats tear stained eyelashes*