Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Irish Eyes]

Spoilered for size:

Spoiler:

E: Irish says she can finally get back on the forum again. What did you do?

J: Aww, just my tried and true method. I shut GW down and then turned it back on!

It appears things are better - nice to see!

[Southern Red]

1. Misbegotten - the very long look over the table which made rest of the team and the walls blush.
2. The Intruder - drinking coffee on the Daedalus
3. John and the team return home in The Hive.
4. Elizabeth teases John about defending her honor against Woolsey in Misbegotten.

5. John and Elizabeth exchange a long look on the Daedalus when Caldwell pulls rank on her-The Intruder


And I passed 3000 without even noticing. Now that's concentration. LOL

See you in a few days.

[Falcon Horus]

My guess is both. It's called trying too hard.

*snort*

» It's the writers!

And the winner is ... Reiko!!

[Anuna]

And I passed 3000 without even noticing. Now that's concentration. LOL

See you in a few days.

Wooot! Congratulations on 3 000 posts, Southern Red!!!

And now the game:


Re: The Sheppard/Weir Ship Discussion Thread
1. Misbegotten - the very long look over the table which made rest of the team and the walls blush.
2. The Intruder - drinking coffee on the Daedalus
3. John and the team return home in The Hive.
4. Elizabeth teases John about defending her honor against Woolsey in Misbegotten.
5. John and Elizabeth exchange a long look on the Daedalus when Caldwell pulls rank on her-The Intruder

6. The eye!sex of doom #1 - "John, you can't" - "I have to, and you know it" in Siege 2.

[Southern Red]

One last post before my husband drags me away I go.

1. Misbegotten - the very long look over the table which made rest of the team and the walls blush.
2. The Intruder - drinking coffee on the Daedalus
3. John and the team return home in The Hive.
4. Elizabeth teases John about defending her honor against Woolsey in Misbegotten.
5. John and Elizabeth exchange a long look on the Daedalus when Caldwell pulls rank on her-The Intruder
6. The eye!sex of doom #1 - "John, you can't" - "I have to, and you know it" in Siege 2.

7. The eye!sex of we're alive don't do that again after the hug-Siege 3

[Anuna]

1. Misbegotten - the very long look over the table which made rest of the team and the walls blush.
2. The Intruder - drinking coffee on the Daedalus
3. John and the team return home in The Hive.
4. Elizabeth teases John about defending her honor against Woolsey in Misbegotten.
5. John and Elizabeth exchange a long look on the Daedalus when Caldwell pulls rank on her-The Intruder
6. The eye!sex of doom #1 - "John, you can't" - "I have to, and you know it" in Siege 2.
7. The eye!sex of we're alive don't do that again after the hug-Siege 3

8. Happy b- day eye!$ex in the first scene of BIS.

[Eri13]

1. Misbegotten - the very long look over the table which made rest of the team and the walls blush.
2. The Intruder - drinking coffee on the Daedalus
3. John and the team return home in The Hive.
4. Elizabeth teases John about defending her honor against Woolsey in Misbegotten.
5. John and Elizabeth exchange a long look on the Daedalus when Caldwell pulls rank on her-The Intruder
6. The eye!sex of doom #1 - "John, you can't" - "I have to, and you know it" in Siege 2.
7. The eye!sex of we're alive don't do that again after the hug-Siege 3
8. Happy b- day eye!$ex in the first scene of BIS.

9. I know what you were going to say look, 38 Minutes

[Eri13]

Hiya Sparkies! I know I'm a day late for Canon day, but I'll go ahead and post my "Michael" synopsis.

You'll have to forgive me, because I'm going off transcripts and photos here--I haven't seen the episode in a while. So if I'm not as thorough with the smaller elements/looks here, pardon me.

However, "Michael" isn't one of those episodes that has small, hidden moments. Essentially every element is important for a story that is both dark and disturbing. And important for the Atlantis canon.

Michael



Michael is one of those episodes which I'm generally always amazed by but rarely compelled to watch. It is a solid story, a deep story, and a very dark story. Perhaps that is the reason it is not on my top ten to pop back in every so often. Unlike other 'darker' episodes, such as "Common Ground", "Poisoning the Well" and "The Eye", this one doesn't pit our heroes as straight up heroes. Instead, in a similar vein to "Coup d'Etat" and "Critical Mass", we're left with the uncomfortable feeling that they might have done something very, very wrong.

But often that's what makes episodes like these the 'best' of the genre. Having our heroes be heroes all the time is unrealistic. Having them here demonstrate their human side--the one prone to errors of judgment and self-preservation instincts--lets us see they are more realistic than we tend to give sci-fi credit for. While Michael isn't one of my personal favorites, if I had to pick a 'grown-up' episode of SGA, this would be on my short list.

We begin with the mysterious Michael Kenmore awaking in the infirmary. Similar to how one of our absolute FAVORITE episodes was done, 'The Real World', the audience has no idea what's going on--only that everyone, from Weir on down, is acting very strangely around this seemingly normal marine.





One of the more interesting aspects of Michael, off the top, is just how dark the story gets. We do not see any of the Atlantis we're used to seeing here. Nobody makes jokes. Hardly anyone smiles. For all 42 or so minutes of the episode, the softer side of Atlantis is missing.




We do still get our Sheppard/Weir bond moments, however.

Another interesting aspect of Michael is how everyone is involved. Everyone has a 'role' to play in the story, even those not directly responsible for the maintenance of Michael. We see Rodney, we see Ronon, and of course people like Carson and Kate are center stage here.









Michael has an interesting Sparky moment in it, one that perhaps isn't as thought of as many of our others. Remember how much Elizabeth and John agree throughout the series? Well, here, they don't. John gives her advice, Elizabeth doesn't take it.





But this episode was written by Carl Binder, whose ability to write the human side of things has always impressed me. I think here he characterizes Weir's sense of command in a number of subliminal ways--you will hear Elizabeth reiterate throughout the episode that she takes full responsibility for the Michael situation. Her decision to work against John's wishes and let Michael roam throughout the city are an aspect of that characterization. And the sparkier side of that is how much we've grown away from the Hot Zone. John doesn't argue with her here. He doesn't like her decision, but he accepts it.

The biggest characterization of Michael, however, comes through the character of Teyla--with whom Binder does a bang-up job. If there is anything I enjoy Michael most for (with the possible exception of Connor Trinneer's excellent performance) it is how, with just one episode, Binder finally gives Teyla some of that much needed depth Teyla fans have complained about wanting to see.





We've always wondered if Binder was a closet Sparky. I think he might also be a closet Spanky fan, too, because we get some really great, powerful Ronon/Teyla moments from Ronon's side. Of course, that can be thrown in with Ronon's dislike of the Wraith in general, but I find it interesting that he reacts most viciously when it's Teyla in danger.





As Michael becomes more confused about his situation--and begins to realize something is seriously wrong--we see an interesting polarization amongst those responsible for his welfare. I mentioned Teyla's added depth, and here is where it really begins to show. She becomes the 'devil's advocate', so to speak, of telling him the truth. It places her in the unique position of being Michael's 'humanities' advocate against those from Earth. For me, it demonstrates--finally--the mindsets of two sets of people from opposite ends of the universe. The Earth people have their way of wanting to do things, whereas Teyla, with her life experiences, her ties to the Wraith and her rather humane character, begins to question that way.







And then comes the revelation...



Coming Up...We find out the truth about Michael--and an Atlantis legacy is born...

[Falcon Horus]

Mmm... Michael (mmm as in the episode, not mmm Michael)... KATE!!!

[Ruined_puzzle]

1. Misbegotten - the very long look over the table which made rest of the team and the walls blush.
2. The Intruder - drinking coffee on the Daedalus
3. John and the team return home in The Hive.
4. Elizabeth teases John about defending her honor against Woolsey in Misbegotten.
5. John and Elizabeth exchange a long look on the Daedalus when Caldwell pulls rank on her-The Intruder
6. The eye!sex of doom #1 - "John, you can't" - "I have to, and you know it" in Siege 2.
7. The eye!sex of we're alive don't do that again after the hug-Siege 3
8. Happy b- day eye!$ex in the first scene of BIS.
9. I know what you were going to say look, 38 Minutes

10. Mid mission debrief eyesex, while ignoring Rodney, The Brotherhood.

[Anuna]

*pops in*

I agree with you Eri- this is a very solid episode, but not one I would watch and watch and re watch. Maybe it's because it lacks the softness factor? Watching episodes like this is - hard.

I remeber being shocked when I found out the truth about Michael. I didn't like what they did, although I could understand their motives, andf after everything I agreed with Ronon - they should spare both Michael and themselves misery and had him killed. The thing is, if you dabble into something you're not supposed to, it comes back to bite you. They turned Michael into something that wasn't neither Wratih or human. He was caught in the middle and there was no escape. They had taken his identity, everything he belonged to, and refused - couldn't make him a part of Atlantis society. In a way that's even crueler than death. No wonder why Michael is a very serious threat.

About Teyla in this episode - why isn't she written like this all the time?!

[Falcon Horus]

About Teyla in this episode - why isn't she written like this all the time?!

Cause that would require more use of those brain cells and less of ... well you know.

[Eri13]

Michael, Part II

The discovery Michael was a Wraith was a shock to me. One of the more unique parts of being a 'later on' fan (I didn't watch the episodes as they aired) is that you don't see promos/previews teasing it, and you don't generally find spoilers about a year-old episode unless you go looking for them. I didn't, so I didn't know Michael was a 'wraith', though I knew he was dangerous in some way.

Revealing he was a Wraith was an interesting twist--especially played against Teyla's somewhat protective attitude towards him. My impression initially was that this was 'good'--as in, oh, yay, they've found a way to eliminate the Wraith. But the more that the story developed (again, excellent work, Mr. Binder) the more I got this uncomfortable feeling that, yeah, maybe this isn't a good idea, and there is something morally wrong with what they had done.





I did very much appreciate the way the decision to handle Michael was treated. For one, I loved Elizabeth's 'I'm to blame' approach to everything--taking full responsibility for her actions, even if they're wrong. I truly think Binder likes testing and developing Elizabeth in this way--and he gives the cue for the developments in front of Elizabeth that will reconcile themselves in "Misbegotten".





Did I mention I really liked Connor Trinneer's performance? I thought he gave Michael the perfect blend of pathos and eerieness--you did want him to become human, and yet, there was something frightening about him. When Michael becomes responsible for the death of Lieutenant Cole, it's not a black and white good guy/bad guy problem. Which, like Weir's decision in Critical Mass or the group's decision in Coup d'etat, leaves you a little unsure of what to do or think.

But that's the point, I think. To make "Michael" work, you had to be able to see all sides of the story--not just know about them, but understand them--and I think they conveyed that very effectively courtesy the writing and the cast.





The final moments, featuring Teyla's kidnapping, were exciting in a non-traditional SGA way. My biggest question was 'what do I hope for?' Teyla to live, obviously, but do I want Michael back? Do I want him to leave? To die? Is he good? Is there potential? Is he not worth it? The fact that I had all these questions demonstrates the story's complexity right up to the end.




Spanky part II--Ronon hurls himself at Michael and Teyla trying to
save her, and he figures out Teyla left them a clue. Ronon has brains!



And then, just as we're about worn out with the darkness and complexity, we're given a final little dose--Michael relents and opts not to feed on Teyla, who has become the one person who has truly tried to develop a relationship with him. Is that the humanity breaking through? A momentary lapse? Or the last of it? We won't know--until he comes back in Season 3.





The final scene reminds me a little of the end scene of "The Defiant One"--the notion that something has gone terribly wrong. But unlike that episode, where Atlantis was blameless, this situation is entirely their fault. The experimentation on Michael, the inability to hold him--are direct consequences of their questionable actions. Are you supposed to feel sorry for the Lanteans? I don't think so. I think you're supposed to be confused and uncomfortable. They got in over their heads this time and now they're going to pay a serious price.









Michael has a lasting legacy through SGA, of course--he does return, rather quickly, and evolves into one of the more interesting villains of the series. But for me Michael's role is distorted a great deal from what he was here. Here, the entirety of Atlantis is involved, and every character has a take on the situation. When he comes back, his focus seems obsession with Teyla and destruction of everyone else. Unlike Koyla, who maintains a connection with John but brings everyone else in the mix, Michael's Teyla focus is rather stalker-ish in nature.

As for Teyla, I applaud how "Michael" makes her a central figure and a strong one at that. I really love how she disapproves of the Lantean's methods in a gentle manner; always walking the fine line between criticism and acceptance believably. You sense her disapproval, but you aren't angry with her for disagreeing. You see how she makes efforts, though her people have been hurt very much by the Wraith, at integrating him into the world of humans. Her actions make the audience think, just as she makes the other characters think. I wish she'd had more opportunities to demonstrate this duality of strength and gentleness. It's an important part of understanding her role as the Athosian leader and yet we really only see it in bits and pieces. Because she's more a secondary character we don't see it brought front and center as much as it should have been (though perhaps that's changing? S4-S5 people?)

Anyways...I find Michael interesting, but am not necessarily drawn to a re-watch. But it does darken our heroes slightly, make for a new and interesting villain, and give us some fodder for future stories. And it lends to some very interesting questions that, with a lighter, less heavy Season 3 up ahead, never really get asked again.

Maybe I'll ask some tomorrow.

[Scary Kitty]

Good afternoon, Sparkies!

Congrats to Southern Red for reaching 3,000 posts! *passes out mojitos*

It's another smutter!day, and I've been sitting on this fic rec all weekend, waiting to post it:

Bittersweet Symphony, by ed_84. (Part One and Part Two) What if John, Elizabeth, and the others hadn't gone back to Atlantis in The Return? How would their lives have changed? An AU with a bit of AMTDI... with a twist.

Happy reading!

[Scary Kitty]

So, "Michael."

Another well-written, thought-provoking episode from our hero, Carl Binder. I also don't tend to rewatch it that much; it's a hard episode to watch because of its moral ambiguities, but the discomfort of seeing it sticks with viewers, as well it should.

It's episodes like "Michael," "Coup d'Etat," and "Poisoning the Well" that not only have stood up to the test of being such dramatic and focused stories, but also are the best illustrators of the truth that actions have consequences. And that those consequences reach far beyond the 42-minute timeslot allotted for the episode;

Spoiler:

"Michael" and "Poisoning the Well" have since dovetailed together into Michael's plans in S4-S5, while "Coup d'Etat" resulted in the escalation of the feud between Kolya and Sheppard and may potentially have tie-ins to Genii plots in "Harmony" and S5's "Inquisition." (for that matter, the Michael experiment and the Hoffan drug are no doubt going to be brought up in "Inquisition," too)

That's the kind of storytelling I enjoy; where you're not starting off fresh every week, where your past actions can come back to bite you in the rear, whether it's two weeks or two years later.

Unsurprisingly, "Michael" is also another one of those episodes where the concept of the expedition itself being the "team" of the show, one of the cornerstones of classic SGA, is brought to the foreground. Everyone has an important role to play in the story; no characters are shoehorned into the action just for the sake of having them there.

I really ought to watch this one again.