Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Alexandra]

Good morning to you too.

About TS/TE I have one more comment. At the end of TE when John and Ford plan to release the hostages, John puts Aiden in charge of Rodney and he takes care of Elizabeth. It was his deicision and I don't think he knew that Kolya would take her to protect himself. He could have used McKay as a shield, but Elizabeth was closer. And that happened after John decided that he will rescue Elizabeth.
I know he trusted Ford to secure McKay, but still, he didn't even hesitate and thought first of Elizabeth. Though, as you mentioned here before, between the two of them, McKay was the most important, to Kolya at least, and John should have thought first that Rodney was in danger to be taken hostage more than Elizabeth. That is if he was thinking with his head, but, apparently, he was thinking with his heart.

And another thing, after John shoots Kolya and he asks Elizabeth if she's all right, he takes her hand and runs away with her, holding her hand. As if, he wants to be sure she's there with him, IMO. And she wasn't even hurt, thank God.

And then, at the very end, when all is calm, there is the scene when they talk to each other looking at the gate and Rodney comes in. Have you noticed that John and Elizabeth were talking and when Rodney comes he starts talking to Elizabeth, but a couple of good seconds pass before she turns from John to look at Rodney. And she even had her back toward Rodney but she didn't turn; and it was impossible not to hear him; so, my only guess is that she liked talking to John and she was reluctant to be interrupted so soon.

Great episodes, those two !

[Southern Red]

Eeekkk! I forgot something important. When you watch my new video, look at John closely at the end of the bedstraddling clip. The line in the song is "She doesn't even know she's sexy." I caught that little look after I slowed the speed.

[Suzotchka]

TS/TE - two great Sparky episodes from beginning to end.

Shows you exactly how much they trust each other.

[justhere1971]

Thanks for backing up my info about military training. Politics aside, this very kind of thing is one of the major arguments against having men and women serve together in combat. The guys in charge are afraid of someone, male or female, having just this kind of break in training. And I think we'd all mostly agree that John Sheppard is not your typical soldier. When have we ever seen him less than cool and calm in a combat situation?



This is another example of a time when his emotions just stop him in his tracks. Then it was like after that his training kicked back in. Remember how fast he got a move on when Kolya told him he had a time limit and was wasting it. *forgets exact dialogue*



Once again, Rambo!John in control.

Now for a pause in the discussion. My new vid, done to a song suggested by Anuna. How did I do?

You Can't Hide Beautiful: http://www.veoh.com/publish/myVideos.html

and for download: http://www.sendspace.com/file/e8p5qu

Loved it!!!!! Thanks for making it!

[SGLAB]

Good point. I learned a lot about military training and I agree with you. We never saw him like this before. Maybe this situation reminded him a little bit too much of Afganistan and those friends he couldn't save. But he wasn't so worried about Rodney, and Elizabeth was his primary concern. At the end os TS he offers Kolya the ship, and even to drive/fly the jumper himself. His voice, sentances and the words he chooses speak volumes.

The part I bolded is the kind of thing that usually bugs with ship. To an extent it still bugs me, but it doesn't ruin the episode like it normally would and I still see ship and like it.

More to this, when he finds out that Elizabeth is alive it's like the whole world just stopped for a moment. "It's good to hear your voice" always makes me melt.

And that line you have bolded is what really pushed me over to ship them.

[Wormhole]

First attempt at this btw

J - She's run out of ideas for Freeze.
E - You're kidding me?
J - Nope.
B - *Sigh*

Arghh... It's true I have.

Don't you hate writers block, especially in the middle of a sentence.

Any tips feel free to let me know.

[Anuna]

He almost begs Koyla - the desperation in his voice in that sentence where he offers Koyla the jumper. Goodness, I get shivers. He's almost a broken man... now come on; he had training for this. To control his emotions, to fight back. Yet there's such a breakdown of control at this point? For what?

That wasn't 'almost begging Kolya'. That was desperately begging Kolya. I still can't believe it, no matter how many times I watch that scene. The desperation is just too big to be professional concern. it's personal, it has something to do with his previous losses, and this is the expedition leader in question. part of him knows that losing the leader would simply kill the expedition and if it wasn't for the rest of the episode, I think you could simply say it's just about not losing the leader. But come on. "It's good to hear your voice" ??? And just like SR said, it stopped him in his tracks. (will continue this below)

My favourite line (that I can recall)
Koyla: Would you risk hitting Dr Weir?
John: I'm not aiming at her

Very cool

This is one of the things that still puzzles me. He was mad and angry but at the same time so self assured he wouldn't hit her. I mean how much self control that took, after everything that happened, after the avenger rampage, killing off Genii soldiers, running through the city, believing that Elizabeth was dead...how much does it take to pull yourself together and not to fall apart in a moment like that??

Which leads me to the next thing, and that's the hand holding scene. I wondered why he rushed off with her, saying that she would be alright after she just told him, in the most sincere way possible that she wasn't okay. That single exchange is loaded with emotion and meaning.
First he runs up to her, and she pulls herself off the ground, soaking wet, probably shaking, not only because of the cold, but shock and fear. He is still high on adrenaline, but when he reaches her his whole face and voice soften and the concern simply floods out. And she tells him she is not okay. How does he react? "But you will be, come on!"

It wasn't over yet and both of them had to stay standing untill the storm passed and everybody was safe. He did amazing job by not letting her break down (and stopping himself to do the same). Do you think he cried later, when he was alone in his room? That emotional roller coaster took lot out of him. Did he go to her, to check up on her? What do you think happened between the moment they raised the shield and that talk above the gate when Rodney joins them?

Thanks for backing up my info about military training. Politics aside, this very kind of thing is one of the major arguments against having men and women serve together in combat. The guys in charge are afraid of someone, male or female, having just this kind of break in training. And I think we'd all mostly agree that John Sheppard is not your typical soldier. When have we ever seen him less than cool and calm in a combat situation?

This is another example of a time when his emotions just stop him in his tracks. Then it was like after that his training kicked back in. Remember how fast he got a move on when Kolya told him he had a time limit and was wasting it. *forgets exact dialogue*

Once again, Rambo!John in control.

Now for a pause in the discussion. My new vid, done to a song suggested by Anuna. How did I do?

You Can't Hide Beautiful: http://www.veoh.com/publish/myVideos.html

and for download: http://www.sendspace.com/file/e8p5qu

This video is AMAZING!!! I love the scenes you used, not the usual ones but you gave us something new. I was squeeeing the whole time! Just what I needed to start that virgin!fic... I worked it out, i know how to handle it, now I have to put it on the paper, eeern, Microsoft Word.

((HUGS SR))

Okay, so john isn't a typical soldier. Sometimes I wonder how did he get through the training, being so prone to defy authority and do things his way. I can't think of a situation where he was so out of track like here. Even in Siege, when he left for suicide mission he was more in check of his emotions. Yes, you can see the fear on his face - in the moment when he nears the hive ship - but his determination to do the right thing is stronger.
This only confirms that losing people he cares about is worse to him then losing his own life. But this wasn't just any person in danger, this was Elizabeth. After this episode we can definitely see the bond between them only becoming stronger.

John can't really control his emotions - or some of his emotions to be more precise. If he is in danger, he will stay calm, but if someone else is in danger, his behavior becomes nearly suicidal. Elizabeth seems to be his weak spot. Do anything but don't touch Elizabeth. He'd kill for her - heck he did kill for her.

Knowing she is alive and well totally stopped him in his tracks and suddenly he was motivated to do exact things Kolya asked, only to save her life. Somewhere along the line it becomes more than taking back the city and saving Rodney too. And it seems to me that Kolya (correctly) sensed how to blackmail him to make him obedient. I think that "It's good to hear your voice" line gave him out - completely.

Good morning to you too.

About TS/TE I have one more comment. At the end of TE when John and Ford plan to release the hostages, John puts Aiden in charge of Rodney and he takes care of Elizabeth. It was his deicision and I don't think he knew that Kolya would take her to protect himself. He could have used McKay as a shield, but Elizabeth was closer. And that happened after John decided that he will rescue Elizabeth.
I know he trusted Ford to secure McKay, but still, he didn't even hesitate and thought first of Elizabeth. Though, as you mentioned here before, between the two of them, McKay was the most important, to Kolya at least, and John should have thought first that Rodney was in danger to be taken hostage more than Elizabeth. That is if he was thinking with his head, but, apparently, he was thinking with his heart.

And another thing, after John shoots Kolya and he asks Elizabeth if she's all right, he takes her hand and runs away with her, holding her hand. As if, he wants to be sure she's there with him, IMO. And she wasn't even hurt, thank God.

And then, at the very end, when all is calm, there is the scene when they talk to each other looking at the gate and Rodney comes in. Have you noticed that John and Elizabeth were talking and when Rodney comes he starts talking to Elizabeth, but a couple of good seconds pass before she turns from John to look at Rodney. And she even had her back toward Rodney but she didn't turn; and it was impossible not to hear him; so, my only guess is that she liked talking to John and she was reluctant to be interrupted so soon.

Great episodes, those two !

I'd just add that Rodney can't be more important than Elizabeth. he is the biggest brain there, but Elizabeth is the leader. Think about what happens when you kill the king (or leader of any society, organization, anything). Everything turns into chaos.

First attempt at this btw





Arghh... It's true I have.

Don't you hate writers block, especially in the middle of a sentence.

Any tips feel free to let me know.

When I hit the writers block brick wall, I read other fics. it usually helps. Watching videos and episodes can also help. Listening to some inspirational music/songs is alos very good. Those are my techniques to fight the writers block.

The part I bolded is the kind of thing that usually bugs with ship. To an extent it still bugs me, but it doesn't ruin the episode like it normally would and I still see ship and like it.


And that line you have bolded is what really pushed me over to ship them.

That line, I think, makes all the diference. Without it, this whole episode (two parter) wouldn't be so shippy

Huh! That was a looong post!

[Southern Red]

I remember back in the old days a lot of posters on here first became Sparky shippers because of these eps. It was just unmistakable at this point.

Now in S4 if they back off this attitude from John they will be doing a great disservice to the character. And also I think a way they messed up big time in S3 with Kolya was to not have him come back at John through Elizabeth. Just OOC in a big way.

Have we already discussed John's body language in the last scene? He was definitely sticking his chest out there, not only posturing for her but he was also proud of himself for saving her and Rodney and the city. And he was proud that she was proud of him. I have noticed that about him for all 3 seasons. There's a clip in my new vid from FS

Spoiler:

that has John smirking at Rodney right after she has said "that was quick" in that cute little flirty voice when he hands in his evaluations. It's definitely a "I'm her pet and you're not" smirk. Then later when they walk out of the room and are talking about the Apollo John is using his flirty voice, leans toward her and positively struts alongside her. He is just so proud of himself because he thinks she likes him. Adorable. This was a very shippy episode and being the last before Adrift, I hope they don't suddenly do a 180.

[Anuna]

I hope that too. During these three years he is definitely, positively convinced he is her pet (and he is right).

What bothered me in Common Ground was the ending - we didn't see him coming through Atlantis gate. We didn't see Eliazbeth's reaction. That is too bad.

Guys, we might wanna count moments in this ep. I'll go screencapping, who'll join me? there is a ton of moments in TS/TE.

[Vixen]

Now in S4 if they back off this attitude from John they will be doing a great disservice to the character. And also I think a way they messed up big time in S3 with Kolya was to not have him come back at John through Elizabeth. Just OOC in a big way.

Who knows with tptb.

What bothered me in Common Ground was the ending - we didn't see him coming through Atlantis gate. We didn't see Eliazbeth's reaction. That is too bad.

Yeah, I would've liked to have seen him being greeted by the others in Atlantis.

[Anuna]

Not just any others, but Elizabeth.

Now, the moments:

So I've got the first "package" - for your shippy pleasure:

Spoiler:

Radio!sex: he wants to do a weather forecast. She is amused.




Equals in action.



She tells him what she expects him to do. He stands at her service. I think she knows she can put her trust in him.




First time we saw the pocket watch.




While discussing the plan with Rodney in his lab, Elizabeth glances over at John.



They are always teamed up and clsoe by.




Kolya states that John is "good" (in tactics).
"Yes he is good," she says with pride in her voice. She counts on him. Very much.




Before the whole mess with "Dr. Weir is dead" we can see the military side of John Sheppard. Very reasonable, collected and ready to cause trouble. Very in control of his own behavior.




He is desperately begging Kolya not to kill Elizabeth.


And the almost crying sequence.















In last four caps you can see how hard is he trying to regain self control. His face says everything.

And finally, the predatoir is on the loose - desperate, angry, uncontrolled and extremely dangerous.

Now, if somebody could do the rest? I can hardly keep my eyes open.

[atlantis_babe34]

Good after noon Sparkers!... I bring tidings of a new sparky vid
Enjoy!

What About Now

[Vixen]

The second "package" :

Spoiler:

Just because it was a great scene.

Koyla realizes that it was John causing all this trouble for him and the Genii (what's left of them), and then bam! he reveals that Elizabeth is alive.

John stops. Is this another trick from Koyla? He demands to talk to her to make sure she is really alive.


She speaks, calls to him and....


There's a huge wave, a tsunami of relief washing over John when he hears her voice. She is alive. He confesses that it's good to hear her voice, and she says the same for him.

But that moment is quickly interrupted when John gets a warning from Koyla that this time she will die for real, along with Rodney, and the city will soon follow. John will not allow this to happen for the second time. He's not going to allow the Genii to destroy his home, or kill Rodney and Elizabeth. Especially Elizabeth.



The big moment. Koyla near the gate with Elizabeth as his shield.


John has a choice to make: He can risk a shot and kill her by accident instead of Koyla, or not do anything and allow Koyla to get away with Elizabeth as his hostage.


Everyone realizes that he won't allow Elizabeth to remain in Koyla's clutches any longer.


We get a close-up of John.


Then of Elizabeth.

There's determination in his gaze and fear in hers. What will happen?

Everyone is exhausted, strength continues to drain from them. Will John hit the right target? Does he have the strength and concentration left in him?

Hearts are beating out of control.

He fires!

He hits the right target!

She's free!


He runs up to her, apologizing for before, and when he sees her shocked look, he asks: Are you okay?




Elizabeth shakes her head. "No" she tells him. She can't lie right now. She is still shaken, and still shivering from having spent such a long time in the poring and freezing rain.


But he takes her hand. "You will be," he assures her and they run up the stairs. Away from the chaos and somewhere safer.




After that, she remains by his side and he by hers. He wants to keep her close to him.



After the city is safe again. The two leaders and friends watch over the people returning.


John remarks on her optimism.


And he smiles to her response.


Everyone is safe and well.

[Pocus]

<snip for length>
This is one of the things that still puzzles me. He was mad and angry but at the same time so self assured he wouldn't hit her. I mean how much self control that took, after everything that happened, after the avenger rampage, killing off Genii soldiers, running through the city, believing that Elizabeth was dead...how much does it take to pull yourself together and not to fall apart in a moment like that??

</snip>

Huh! That was a looong post!

I always loved this scene. (peek at my avatar) It doesn't puzzle me how he was so sure he wouldn't hit her. He had been through so much during the day and the stress was amazing, but now it all came down to this one moment. I can imagine the whole scenario coming into sharp focus and the world disappearing around him. He was completely in the moment and was POSITIVE he would not fail. It was unthinkable to do otherwise.

[justhere1971]

I always loved this scene. (peek at my avatar) It doesn't puzzle me how he was so sure he wouldn't hit her. He had been through so much during the day and the stress was amazing, but now it all came down to this one moment. I can imagine the whole scenario coming into sharp focus and the world disappearing around him. He was completely in the moment and was POSITIVE he would not fail. It was unthinkable to do otherwise.

ITA! Everything was on the line for him at that singular moment - he couldn't afford to loose or miss the shot. I want to compare this to a mom saving her child's life -- it's the same level of desperation. Heart stills, breathing slows down, and suddenly you know exactly what you have to do, and do it.

I loved the fact he held onto her hand as he ran up the stairs. It's almost like he needed to make sure she was safe and still with him. He was not going to let go of her for a single moment that he could help it. How many soldiers do you know/have heard of who holds on to the victim like that? I dunno, seemed like a very intimate moment in the middle of all that chaos/fear. The two of them, saving their city together.