Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Vicky]

Hi,

My last creation

This is pretty hon!

I love ZPS! It makes me giggle everytime I read one! I can't wait for season 3 to begin so we can have new recaps!

And yeah SallyLizzie, you're back!!

My thoughts on Instinct:

Spoiler:

Yeah it was a pretty good ep to introduce Conversion, but other than that and the Sparky scene in the infirmary which is funny in a way (oh and do you remember Little Red's recap when she wrote about how he was sitting? lol), the ep was not one of my fave...

[Mann One]

Hi,

My last creation

Nice wallpaper!
I personally am not very good at making things like banners, wallpapers, icons but your's is pretty good.

[FoolishPleasure]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]

Spoiler:

Ingles?

Is confused.

You have to have seen the old TV show, "Little House on the Prairie" to get it.

I also spelled it wrong - should have been

Spoiler:

Kaylee Ingalls Wraith.

[Southern Red]

Good morning. RL is about to kick my *** so this may be a fly by post. On Instinct

Spoiler:

I agree that it was pretty dull. Way too much exposition. Loved the infirmary scene and the bed straddle still haunts my dreams. I also liked the beginning scene in the "pub" which reminded me of a western. Didn't Shep even say "Howdy"? Too cute.

Mann One thanks for the comments on the commentary. Somebody with way too much time on their hands wrote out most of the comments here http://serabut.livejournal.com/197633.html. I wondered about the last scene with Shep and Teyla. Did you understand what Joe meant by his comment on "specific ambiguity" in that scene? He says that the scene was left with a completely different meaning than he thought it would have. Martin Gero says that he edited it, so that means they must have decided to go a certain way. I'm left wondering if they got the point across that they intended to. In my mind the scene slams the door on any future "romance" and leaves them as friends, but is that what they think they got across? *rambling and thinking out loud* It's hard to tell from reading someone's comments. Love the stuff about his collar though. He's like a little kid that you have to get dressed just before leaving, or you'll have to start all over again. LOL

You also reiterated my old argument on RST. I think it would work well in Atlantis for the reasons you stated. Nothing has to change. Except the sleeping arrangements. Heh. Oh, and the kirking.

On second glance at the commentary, I see MG says Judith somebody edited it. A woman. Hmm?

[Melyanna]

You have to have seen the old TV show, "Little House on the Prairie" to get it.

I also spelled it wrong - should have been

Spoiler:

Kaylee Ingalls Wraith.

Hey, you could have read the books, too. hopalong, Laura Ingalls Wilder wrote a series of nine autobiographical children's books about growing up in the American Midwest in the late nineteenth century. Well, technically one of them was about her husband's childhood in upstate New York, but whatever. The point is, quaint prairie lifestyle. The character in Instinct, whose name I can't even remember, was rather innocent and quaint (and played by the same actress who played Kaylee in Firefly), ergo Kaylee Ingalls Wraith.

[FoolishPleasure]

Mann One thanks for the comments on the commentary. Somebody with way too much time on their hands wrote out most of the comments here http://serabut.livejournal.com/197633.html. I wondered about the last scene with Shep and Teyla. Did you understand what Joe meant by his comment on "specific ambiguity" in that scene? He says that the scene was left with a completely different meaning than he thought it would have. Martin Gero says that he edited it, so that means they must have decided to go a certain way. I'm left wondering if they got the point across that they intended to. In my mind the scene slams the door on any future "romance" and leaves them as friends, but is that what they think they got across?

Sounded like Joe said they had filmed a sexually ambiguous scene at the end of "Conversion" (when he apologized to Teyla) but it was cut. So it seems while JF likes Sheyla, TPTB don't as Gero said he specifically cut that out - and it wasn't cut for time.

Same happened in "Ripple Effect" - there was a scene where AU Mitchell and Carter go into an elevator and as the door closes it seems they are leaning in to kiss each other. Mallozzi had it in his blog - when they were watching it, in dailies he almost choked and make deLuise reshoot it.

[Hatcheter]

Oh and Trialia reminded me of a fic when she mentionned that scene in Runner, and since I don't remember the title or the author, maybe you could help me find it.
In this fic, John and Liz are tied together and while trying to free them I think John groped her @ss. I think I've read it at the community a few months ago though I'm not sure. Does someone have the title of this fic?

Was it this?



So, we've passed 30000 posts, huh? Not too bad for an irrelevant little group of deluded shippers.

[Major_Moomin]

Sounded like Joe said they had filmed a sexually ambiguous scene at the end of "Conversion" (when he apologized to Teyla) but it was cut. So it seems while JF likes Sheyla, TPTB don't as Gero said he specifically cut that out - and it wasn't cut for time.

Same happened in "Ripple Effect" - there was a scene where AU Mitchell and Carter go into an elevator and as the door closes it seems they are leaning in to kiss each other. Mallozzi had it in his blog - when they were watching it, in dailies he almost choked and make deLuise reshoot it.

Maybe they just didn't want the scene to come across as strong as it originally did. They probably thought the scene suggested too much too early in the show. They didn't it to be obvious to everyone with a brain. By editing it maybe they think that if something changes further down the line, they can dismiss it as purely instinct or if they do decide to go with sheyla, they can argue that it meant more.

God forbid.

Bleh!

[Vicky]

Was it this?



So, we've passed 30000 posts, huh? Not too bad for an irrelevant little group of deluded shippers.

Weeeee! It's that one! I didn't remember it was yours! Thanks!

[Ronnikins]

Somebody with way too much time on their hands wrote out most of the comments here http://serabut.livejournal.com/197633.html. I wondered about the last scene with Shep and Teyla. Did you understand what Joe meant by his comment on "specific ambiguity" in that scene? He says that the scene was left with a completely different meaning than he thought it would have. Martin Gero says that he edited it, so that means they must have decided to go a certain way. I'm left wondering if they got the point across that they intended to. In my mind the scene slams the door on any future "romance" and leaves them as friends, but is that what they think they got across? *rambling and thinking out loud* It's hard to tell from reading someone's comments. Love the stuff about his collar though. He's like a little kid that you have to get dressed just before leaving, or you'll have to start all over again. LOL

You also reiterated my old argument on RST. I think it would work well in Atlantis for the reasons you stated. Nothing has to change. Except the sleeping arrangements. Heh. Oh, and the kirking.

On second glance at the commentary, I see MG says Judith somebody edited it. A woman. Hmm?

Thanks for the link, SR. I read the interview and I had a hard time interpreting JF's statement. What did he mean by "ambiguity" and Shep saying "I'm sorry, no, really"? DH was the one who mentioned "sexual ambiguity?", not the others. MG and the lady editor did the final editing though, so they must have had a specific idea or arc in mind? *Also ruminating as she types* FP may be right though in that JF is still thinking Sheyla (gosh, that was hard to admit) but TPTB has other ideas. As usual, we'll have to wait for Season 3 and judge for ourselves.

On UST vs. RST:
I love me my soft, slow subtle Sparky but up to a certain point. Yes, I would still love them to be great friends if nothing else happens but, honestly, I would feel a tad frustrated too, since I've invested quite a bit (OK, a lot) of time discussing it. The problem, as I see it, is the time-frame of the life of the show. Prime examples were SG1 and TXF. They milked the UST for years and years since they didn't know when the last season would be and they thought they on to a good thing keeping the fans interested in J/S and M/S. By the time they decided to resolve the issue, it was too little too late and nobody was happy. The longevity of SGA is up in the air and as MG pointed out, this coming seaon will be the "make or break" one. I personally think they can do RST on this show for the reasons others have pointed out but it has to be as subtle as the UST we've been seeing.

Off-topic, by chance saw an old episode of TXF the other night and M/S chemistry virtually melted the screen (forgot how incredible it was). And, yes, Luz, since you have mentioned it before, Mulder does remind me of Shep for some reason.

Hey, you could have read the books, too. hopalong, Laura Ingalls Wilder wrote a series of nine autobiographical children's books about growing up in the American Midwest in the late nineteenth century. Well, technically one of them was about her husband's childhood in upstate New York, but whatever. The point is, quaint prairie lifestyle.

Yep, watched the series and read some of her books too. Another favourite was "Anne of Green Gables", books and series.

[Athenaktt]

Sounded like Joe said they had filmed a sexually ambiguous scene at the end of "Conversion" (when he apologized to Teyla) but it was cut. So it seems while JF likes Sheyla, TPTB don't as Gero said he specifically cut that out - and it wasn't cut for time.

So does this mean Gero has good taste and also prefers Sparky?? Hehe.

I wonder which episodes Gero has written so far might make us think that.

[Luz]

Hooray!!!!! You're back! Not only that you've come bearing gifts.

On Instinct

Spoiler:

It was an OK episode. Not much Weir in it so the only Sparky scene was the infirmary one where John cracked that joke and she tried so hard to look serious. It made me think that Elizabeth has got quite a sense of humour if she can only unleash it on occasion. We need more please in Season 3. Enjoyed Rodney in this eppy, he was so "Rodney".

Now I'll dive into those fics......

Spoiler:

Episodes with little or no Elizabeth bore me, unless the story is really good, like Defiant One, or Aurora. the episode had its good bits, but the villagers were so boring, and if i don't care for the chacters i don't care about their story. The domesticated wraith was meh!, the pa *has a fit of giggles* was indifferent to me, the flashbacks, GAH!, someone shoot me with a banana puhlease.
There were good bits, like Sheppard hitting McKay over the head, Ronon all cute and anxious to kill, but not much else.
At least we had the sparky scene and Sheppard's exhibition at the infirmary.

Thanks for the link, SR. I read the interview and I had a hard time interpreting JF's statement. What did he mean by "ambiguity" and Shep saying "I'm sorry, no, really"? DH was the one who mentioned "sexual ambiguity?", not the others. MG and the lady editor did the final editing though, so they must have had a specific idea or arc in mind? *Also ruminating as she types* FP may be right though in that JF is still thinking Sheyla (gosh, that was hard to admit) but TPTB has other ideas. As usual, we'll have to wait for Season 3 and judge for ourselves.

Whips out the rulebook , the guide to help us on the proper misinterpretation of scenes.

Conversion

Spoiler:

*zomfg* Don't you get it?, Sheppard and Teyla's stick fighting is only the vertical expression of a horizontal desire. When he got the retrovirus all it did was lower his inhibitions, allowing him to finally express his long repressed feelings for Teyla, so romantic *sigh*. This is why he never looks at her, talks to her, stands next to her, or interacts with her *at all*, his poor little heart could never take the strength of his feelings, so his lurve for the girl with the supah wraith powerz of awsomeness must be kept supah sikrit.
So when he got sick the first things he did was outrun (and tease) Ronon, and kiss his beloved, the virus for him was like getting wasted only instead of making him act all stupid and do idiotic things, he kissed Teyla, which wasn't idiotic at all, nono .
And she ejoyed it, don't let yourself be misled by her stand, the way her hands (and eyes) were saying WTF!?, how smushed her lips looked, or the sigh of relief she expelled after Sheppard left, on the inside she was enjoying it damn it!, *nods emphaticaly*.
And the apology, well, to an uneducated outsider it might have looked like he was profusely apologising and she was studiously avoiding even the slightest form of eye contact with him, but what was really happening was a promise of undying lurve, yep, that was it *lalala*. Don't let their apparent awkwardness, and their "let's not ever touch this issue with a ten foot pole, EVAH!" mislead you.

[A.L.]

Oh, goodness, I'd totally forgotten that this was the episode where Red and Pooh noted the random tassle on the hilt of Ronon's sword for the first time. My favorite part?

Seriously, though, Instinct was such a forgettable episode. The only good thing about it, in my opinion, was the lead-in to Conversion.

(Um, yes, time for me to get back to writing... Or possibly sleeping...)

My sis and I discussed the tassle recently and as of Epiphany I believe it's no longer there. I might have disappeared before that but that's when I noticed it. I think. I could be wrong. Hmmm... No time to check the epi now.

AL

[Vicky]

On UST vs. RST:
I love me my soft, slow subtle Sparky but up to a certain point. Yes, I would still love them to be great friends if nothing else happens but, honestly, I would feel a tad frustrated too, since I've invested quite a bit (OK, a lot) of time discussing it. The problem, as I see it, is the time-frame of the life of the show. Prime examples were SG1 and TXF. They milked the UST for years and years since they didn't know when the last season would be and they thought they on to a good thing keeping the fans interested in J/S and M/S. By the time they decided to resolve the issue, it was too little too late and nobody was happy. The longevity of SGA is up in the air and as MG pointed out, this coming seaon will be the "make or break" one. I personally think they can do RST on this show for the reasons others have pointed out but it has to be as subtle as the UST we've been seeing.

It's what I think to, they can do RST. After all, we don't ask for John and Liz to be all over each other all day. That wouldn't be interesting. But what would be interesting if they get together would be to see how they deal with their relationship during desperate situations or when they disagree.

@Luz: roflmao! That's so great!

Oh and since I think about it, a quick fic rec: Major Dork posted the 4th chapter of A Glimpse into the future. Go check it out, it's a great story!

[Southern Red]

Spoiler:

Episodes with little or no Elizabeth bore me, unless the story is really good, like Defiant One, or Aurora. the episode had its good bits, but the villagers were so boring, and if i don't care for the chacters i don't care about their story. The domesticated wraith was meh!, the pa *has a fit of giggles* was indifferent to me, the flashbacks, GAH!, someone shoot me with a banana puhlease.
There were good bits, like Sheppard hitting McKay over the head, Ronon all cute and anxious to kill, but not much else.
At least we had the sparky scene and Sheppard's exhibition at the infirmary.

Whips out the rulebook , the guide to help us on the proper misinterpretation of scenes.

Conversion

Spoiler:

*zomfg* Don't you get it?, Sheppard and Teyla's stick fighting is only the vertical expression of a horizontal desire. When he got the retrovirus all it did was lower his inhibitions, allowing him to finally express his long repressed feelings for Teyla, so romantic *sigh*. This is why he never looks at her, talks to her, stands next to her, or interacts with her *at all*, his poor little heart could never take the strength of his feelings, so his lurve for the girl with the supah wraith powerz of awsomeness must be kept supah sikrit.
So when he got sick the first things he did was outrun (and tease) Ronon, and kiss his beloved, the virus for him was like getting wasted only instead of making him act all stupid and do idiotic things, he kissed Teyla, which wasn't idiotic at all, nono .
And she ejoyed it, don't let yourself be misled by her stand, the way her hands (and eyes) were saying WTF!?, how smushed her lips looked, or the sigh of relief she expelled after Sheppard left, on the inside she was enjoying it damn it!, *nods emphaticaly*.
And the apology, well, to an uneducated outsider it might have looked like he was profusely apologising and she was studiously avoiding even the slightest form of eye contact with him, but what was really happening was a promise of undying lurve, yep, that was it *lalala*. Don't let their apparent awkwardness, and their "let's not ever touch this issue with a ten foot pole, EVAH!" mislead you.

I love it when you go all snarky. Some shipper glasses must be as thick as coke bottles.