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**Major_Moomin** · 18 April 2006, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by Melyanna

And to veer off onto another topic, I made a random connection this morning. In Before I Sleep, Elizabeth asked Old!Elizabeth if she was in any pain, and Old!Elizabeth indicated that neither of them would admit it if they were. Yet a few episodes earlier, at the end of The Eye, John asked Elizabeth if she was okay, and she said no, quite emphatically. I found the contradiction, as it were, rather interesting.

But then in Coversion, when John asked her if he'd hurt anyone, she told him that he hadn't hurt anyone seriously. Despite the fact that

Spoiler:

not long before that.

You know, I still have issues with this scene. The fact that nothing came form it. He said he remembered his incident with Teyla and things after that so I still maintain that he remembered what happened with Elizabeth. If I had to make a guess, I'm thinking that she left it out of her mission report. Probably thinking that it would be the perfect opportunity for Caldwell to pull John out for attacking his boss. *shrugs* I dunno.

Kinda went away from the point of this post there...er yea.

**Erised** · 18 April 2006, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by Melyanna

And to veer off onto another topic, I made a random connection this morning. In Before I Sleep, Elizabeth asked Old!Elizabeth if she was in any pain, and Old!Elizabeth indicated that neither of them would admit it if they were. Yet a few episodes earlier, at the end of The Eye, John asked Elizabeth if she was okay, and she said no, quite emphatically. I found the contradiction, as it were, rather interesting.

That's what I've been wondering about as well! It seemed like Before I Sleep and The Eye would have worked better if BIS came before the Eye. Old!Elizabeth tells Elizabeth that she shouldn't be so hard on herself. I think this could have caused her to admit that she wasn't okay in the Eye. But because BIS came after the Eye, it doesn't quiet work so well..

**SallyLizzie** · 18 April 2006, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by Melyanna

And to veer off onto another topic, I made a random connection this morning. In Before I Sleep, Elizabeth asked Old!Elizabeth if she was in any pain, and Old!Elizabeth indicated that neither of them would admit it if they were. Yet a few episodes earlier, at the end of The Eye, John asked Elizabeth if she was okay, and she said no, quite emphatically. I found the contradiction, as it were, rather interesting.

That could be to do with her being conscious of her pain in BIS and Conversion. If she'd had time to really comprehend what had just happened to her, in The Eye, she very well might have shrugged off a "Yeah, I'm fine." As it was, she was still dealing with a very 'wtf' moment when John came over and asked her if she was okay.

**Trialia** · 18 April 2006, 08:03 AM

Yeah, but in The Eye he wasn't just asking whether she was hurt-- he asked if she was okay. Would you be okay after just having been held hostage?

**gwenhwyfar** · 18 April 2006, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by SallyLizzie

That could be to do with her being conscious of her pain in BIS and Conversion. If she'd had time to really comprehend what had just happened to her, in The Eye, she very well might have shrugged off a "Yeah, I'm fine." As it was, she was still dealing with a very 'wtf' moment when John came over and asked her if she was okay.

And at the end of the episode she was very "Yeah, I'm ok." when talking with Rodney and John.That never sat well with me. Which is why I wrote fic about ti.

**SGLAB** · 18 April 2006, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by Major_Moomin

But then in Coversion, when John asked her if he'd hurt anyone, she told him that he hadn't hurt anyone seriously. Despite the fact that

Spoiler:

not long before that.

You know, I still have issues with this scene. The fact that nothing came form it. He said he remembered his incident with Teyla and things after that so I still maintain that he remembered what happened with Elizabeth. If I had to make a guess, I'm thinking that she left it out of her mission report. Probably thinking that it would be the perfect opportunity for Caldwell to pull John out for attacking his boss. *shrugs* I dunno.

Kinda went away from the point of this post there...er yea.

In Conversion it wasn't about willingness to show vulnerability. She was protecting John by not telling him what he did. And yeah, it would have been nice to see something between them about it at the end.

**Major Zoidberg** · 18 April 2006, 08:19 AM

That whole scene where their all talking at the end of the eye never came off right to me either. After whats happened! Liz was just kidnapped held at gun point and almost died, sheppards definetly to cheerful. I expect that incident was the first time he'd ever shot someone in anger. And he was in a cold blooded rage less than a few hours earlier, just dosn't seem right to me

On battlestar galactica we would have seen consequence, see them all messed up after the whole incident, but there isn't time to do that on SG-A

Wish they'd have been more sparky angst

**Melyanna** · 18 April 2006, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by Major_Moomin

But then in Coversion, when John asked her if he'd hurt anyone, she told him that he hadn't hurt anyone seriously. Despite the fact that

Spoiler:

not long before that.

Actually, something about that scene intrigues me.

Spoiler:

**Major_Moomin** · 18 April 2006, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by SGLAB

In Conversion it wasn't about willingness to show vulnerability. She was protecting John by not telling him what he did. And yeah, it would have been nice to see something between them about it at the end.

That why I like to believe that she didn't include it in her mission report. (not that we actually know it) To protect him. And maybe for the fact that she thought it was probably better left in the past. She knew it wasn't John that was was in full control, that's why he let her go, because he didn't really want to hurt her. She's protecting him from his own reaction.

I still hold out hope that there will be recognition that it happened. It could potentialy be brought up in any type of angst/whump scene. *lol*

Originally posted by Melyanna

Actually, something about that scene intrigues me.

Spoiler:

I never really thought of it like that.

Spoiler:

**SallyLizzie** · 18 April 2006, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by Trialia

Yeah, but in The Eye he wasn't just asking whether she was hurt-- he asked if she was okay. Would you be okay after just having been held hostage?

Pain's pain, whether it be emotional or physical. I doubt she'd admit to being emotionally damaged any more than she would admit to being in physical pain (Infact, I rather see her admitting to physical pain before emotional pain).

Depends who was holding me hostage

Originally posted by Melyanna

Spoiler:

I'm inclined to agree. [Conversion]

Spoiler:

**Major_Moomin** · 18 April 2006, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by SallyLizzie

Pain's pain, whether it be emotional or physical. I doubt she'd admit to being emotionally damaged any more than she would admit to being in physical pain (Infact, I rather see her admitting to physical pain before emotional pain).

Depends who was holding me hostage

I can agree to that. She's a diplomat. She's used to keeping her face neutral in the worst of situations when it's called for. She probably has the best poker face out of all of them. Physical pain, however, is a lot harder to hide. It's there for people to see and if it looks painful then it probably is.

**Luz** · 18 April 2006, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Melyanna

Actually, something about that scene intrigues me.

Spoiler:

Yeah i'd thought of it too, at first i was miffed that there hadn't been any bruising around her neck. But then i thought about this accident i suffered many years ago and was hit really hard on my face, to the point that the vessels on my right eye popped and the eye turned a bloody red, but i didn't get any bruises on my face, it was weird, cause i was hit very badly, but there was zero bruising. So i thought, that hey, maybe he didn't bang her up so badly, so it wouldn't be too rare for her not to be bruised, still the bruises would've been good for us Weir whumpers

.
About the apology, i think an apology scene between Sheppard and Weir would have carried much more bagage that the one between Teyla and Sheppard, not because one attack was worse than the other, but because of the different relationships. With Teyla it was a scene that portrayed closure, of a chapter between the characters, there was moment in time when Sheppard may have entertained thoughts about Teyla, but the attack didn't have anything to do with his being attracted to her. And the talk was him trying to patch and clear thing up, to me that scene really damaged the friendship between Sheppard and Teyla (the attack, not the apology), because you can see how scared she was during it, and how relieved she is at the end when she practicaly sprints from the gym after he apologyses.
But on that last scene that's as far as it goes, end of story, he might have given it a thought, but now she's a part of the team, and she's no longer the potential girlfriend of the week.
An apology scene between Sheppard and Weir would something a hell of a lot more complicated than that, because the writers would've had to delve into why did Weir keep coming to talk to him?, the why of his rage?, why didn't he kill her if he was past the point of no return?. I've been trying to think of how this scene could've gone, and it keeps coming back to the fact that the relationship between Sheppard and Weir is so complex that they don't even realise how far interwined their lives have become. IMO the writers must have considered writing a Sheppard/Weir apology scene, but it would've been so tangled up, because it wouldn't been a "let's never talk about this again" end of story talk (as it was with Teyla).
This is just my take on it, off course it could also have happened that as oblivious as tptb are they thought the episode was already long enough and didn't give the idea of a Sheppard/weir apology a second thought

.

**Melyanna** · 18 April 2006, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by Major_Moomin

I never really thought of it like that.

Spoiler:

As for the marks on her neck, I think that if he'd been holding her tightly enough to leave marks, she wouldn't have been able to breathe, let alone talk. He certainly wasn't choking her.

I really think the most important thing to get out of this episode is that John and Elizabeth trust each other implicitly, no matter what's going on.

**GateByte** · 18 April 2006, 10:28 AM

So much catching up to do. So I'll just comment on the newest stuff.

Originally posted by SallyLizzie

Pain's pain, whether it be emotional or physical. I doubt she'd admit to being emotionally damaged any more than she would admit to being in physical pain (Infact, I rather see her admitting to physical pain before emotional pain).

I think it would take a lot less for her to admit to physical pain, than emotional pain. She's very talented at hiding her emotions, as comes from being a diplomat. I just think it would have to take something really bad, for her to show how she's really feeling. And I also agree with MM that it would be harder to hide physical pain. Seeing as it'd be blatently obvious that something that looks terribly painful, no doubt means you're in pain.

I'm inclined to agree. [Conversion]

Spoiler:

That plus

Spoiler:

Ok, so now that I'm starting to babble, off to catch up on Sparky fic, and then get ready to go out to dinner. Exams are DONE! so I'll be able to work on the next chapter of my fic. So, hopefully I'll be posting the link to that in the near future.

**xfkirsten** · 18 April 2006, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by Major_Moomin

Physical pain, however, is a lot harder to hide. It's there for people to see and if it looks painful then it probably is.

You'd be surprised how easy it is to hide when you're motivated.

/repeat offender

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