Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Infinite-Possibilities]

That Ottawa con was the one I mentioned I had the chance to go to. I eventually opted not to (something I very quickly regretted) but my brother went and I'm pretty sure he got Joe Flanigan's autograph for me as a Christmas present.

[Southern Red]

Let me see...



Wait... Sparky was canon but TPTW didn't think there was enough chemistry between them?!? EXCUSE ME?!?

They had brilliant chemistry together... It's one of the reasons I ship Sparky in the first place, cause of that chemistry they had together. If it hadn't been there, I wouldn't have bothered.

I find that part puzzling also, but it might explain the McKeller ship. They just don't know what chemistry looks like. Yet, they had tons of fans telling them they saw the chemistry, but they chose to ignore us. And see where it got them.

There were four to choose from: Elizabeth, Teyla, Keller and Carter.

I find it interesting that Joe didn't mention Teyla as a possible mate for his character. He seems to have changed his opinion.

I wonder if that isn't a bit of a flub in the way that it is written? To me, that bit seems more like the writer's opinion, and more like he/she means TPTW were dropping some anvils. I doubt that TPTW would have said something like that, and I'd be surprised if Joe did either. But regarding the chemistry observation, I do think TPTW discussed sparky, and I'm sure that was one of the arguments against the pairing. I'm sure they discussed it after s1. After all, they did break up Simon & Elizabeth.

That was unclear to me too. I think you're right that the first part was the writer's opinion. This was an article by someone who is a blogger and it looks like she wrote about lots of other guests at the con also.

If TPTB ever seriously considered Sparky, they sure didn't admit it to the fans.

Agreed. But my opinion of it is clouded by the fact that the way they portrayed the characters initially, it seemed like there was a 10 year, possibly 15 year age gap between the two of them.

That's common in movies and TV. Mr. SR and I were watching a movie over the holiday and commented on the fact that the actress was half the age of the famous actor she was shipped with. Can't have some old wrinkled hag of 40 matched up with Mr. Stud Muffin, I guess. *snort*

Elizabeth: discounted due to.....them having some reservations about weir's popularity

Teyla: that was the plan, but I think they got second thoughts at the end of s1, and when they saw the Teyla/Ronon chemistry, they probably figured they'd see how things played out with that first (so, tease) then hook Sheppard and Teyla up in the last half of whenever their last season was going to be

Keller: Perhaps it was discussed early on, but in s4 they hinted at Ronon/Keller in Quarantine, which is probably where they originally wanted to go.

Carter: that's a no go. Aside from the non-frat regs, it would have majorly annoyed the Sam/Jack shippers.

Brilliant analysis. I recently learned also that since the personnel changes at MGM, they apparently have called a halt to any further Sheyla in those tie-in books. Wish they had done that earlier.

That Ottawa con was the one I mentioned I had the chance to go to. I eventually opted not to (something I very quickly regretted) but my brother went and I'm pretty sure he got Joe Flanigan's autograph for me as a Christmas present.

Lucky you. If you get another chance to meet him, don't hesitate. He's very warm. *snicker*

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Lazy Sunday!

First, to the College Football Round-up! (don't want to make John mad, after all ) As previously mentioned, Rivalry Week shenanigans ensued as Virginia Tech beat Virginia 24-20, Navy beat South Alabama 42-40, and Air Force beat Colorado State 27-24. Yesterday, Georgia fell to Georgia Tech 30-24, UTSA beat North Texas 34-27, and USC came storming back from last week's loss to UCLA to CRUSH Notre Dame, 49-14.

Now, on to Sparky!

If they had cast Joe as Rodney, I'd have been on Team McWeir

I think we all would have been.

Chaya, Teer, blonde Tower girl, PhDD in Inferno (what? I'm not criticising them for hiring a big boobed actor - because women do have big boobs sometimes - but their costume choice made it seem like they'd hired her specifically for that reason. Not to mention John and Rodney's childish behaviour), Larrin

Oh right, Larrin. I think I had managed to blank my memory of her.

That Ottawa con was the one I mentioned I had the chance to go to. I eventually opted not to (something I very quickly regretted) but my brother went and I'm pretty sure he got Joe Flanigan's autograph for me as a Christmas present.

Lucky you. If you get another chance to meet him, don't hesitate. He's very warm. *snicker*

I second that.

I find it interesting that Joe didn't mention Teyla as a possible mate for his character. He seems to have changed his opinion.

Isn't it, though?

Brilliant analysis. I recently learned also that since the personnel changes at MGM, they apparently have called a halt to any further Sheyla in those tie-in books. Wish they had done that earlier.

Interesting, I hadn't heard that. The fact that they've stopped doing pre-printed runs and are focusing solely on ebooks (and some print on demand, I think?) tells me that they've lost confidence in making enough sales to justify continuing to do the books. I wonder if the only reason the books are still being written at all is because Fandemonium's contract is still live, and that when the contract comes up for renewal, MGM will choose to let it lapse, killing the books altogether and putting the final nail in the coffin of the SG-1/SGA/SGU franchise so that they can focus on the new film franchise more closely based on the Emmerich film. Food for thought.

[Infinite-Possibilities]

Yeah there were a couple of reasons I didn't feel like going. I was feeling kind of depressed and I had just spent a whole lot of money on myself and didn't feel comfortable spending a lot more.

Plus I remembered my one previous convention experience. It was cool and I got autographs from Billy Dee Williams and LeVar Burton, but I remember feeling super embarrassed talking to them. I know these guys all must run into their share of nervous fans ibut I felt like there was a good chance I'd feel like I made a bad impression with Joe Flanigan too if I tried again.

[mrscopterdoc]

I have only one entry for this challenge, so I am extending it for a week. Please see below for new due date.

Challenge # 54

The 7in7 challenge was a lot of fun! It is always good to push your skills. The one I like the least is blending, so with that I am making this week's challenge a blending challenge. Blend 2 or more pictures together, but here's the catch. No faces! So if you use a picture of nature or something, then easy! But if you want to use a person....can't show their face!! Just for fun, for the text, use a movie tagline. The picture does not have to match the movie tagline! {for example, if you use a quote from Lord of the Rings, not a single picture in your art has to be LotR. Unless you want it to.}

Entries due to me by noon your time Monday December 8th.

************************************************
Remember to work on your secret santa gifts!

If you signed up for the advent calendar, don't forget to PM me your entry at least 24 hours before your day, thanks!

[Falcon Horus]

Plus I remembered my one previous convention experience. It was cool and I got autographs from Billy Dee Williams and LeVar Burton, but I remember feeling super embarrassed talking to them. I know these guys all must run into their share of nervous fans ibut I felt like there was a good chance I'd feel like I made a bad impression with Joe Flanigan too if I tried again.

You shouldn't worry about that. I managed to get a very personalized autograph cause I had blurted a "Hu?!" out during Neil Roberts' introduction of Morena Baccarin at a Firefly convention. I was all the way in the front so not too far from where he was standing. It was in reference to her having been in some Shakespeare plays I didn't know. As a result every time he spotted me during the weekend he'd refer to me as Ms Shakespeare which he also wrote in the autograph.

I hadn't planned on getting one from him but everyone, even people I didn't know, urged me to get one anyway and I'm glad I did.

And I have been known to make a complete fool, babbling at will, in front of, among others, Jewel Staite.

I don't want to think what I would blurt out if ever I were to meet Claire Rankin in real life. Unless, I revert to that same person that went for an autograph from Anthony Daniels - C-3PO. I was so in awe with him that I didn't say a word, and just grinned like an idiot.

[Southern Red]

Yeah there were a couple of reasons I didn't feel like going. I was feeling kind of depressed and I had just spent a whole lot of money on myself and didn't feel comfortable spending a lot more.

Plus I remembered my one previous convention experience. It was cool and I got autographs from Billy Dee Williams and LeVar Burton, but I remember feeling super embarrassed talking to them. I know these guys all must run into their share of nervous fans ibut I felt like there was a good chance I'd feel like I made a bad impression with Joe Flanigan too if I tried again.

Everybody babbles. I'm sure Joe thought I was an idiot who wandered into the wrong convention, but he was very gracious. I also babbled to Chris Heyerdahl, David Hewlett and Michael Shanks. They were all very sweet in return. Joe has a way of looking you right in the eye so it is impossible for you to remember your own name, so I'm sure he is used to babbling women.

[mrscopterdoc]

the advent for Dec. 1st was made by taris-eirien

[Falcon Horus]

My favorite instrument - violin...

[gateraid]

I find that part puzzling also, but it might explain the McKeller ship. They just don't know what chemistry looks like. Yet, they had tons of fans telling them they saw the chemistry, but they chose to ignore us. And see where it got them.


I find it interesting that Joe didn't mention Teyla as a possible mate for his character. He seems to have changed his opinion.

I know you were making seperate points here, but they do tie together somewhat. I wonder if in Trio, they were just going for a friends vibe with McKeller. They'd already had a sort-of Keller/Dex thing in Quarantine, and the 'beer' tag scene could have been platonic (and actually, at that point, it was). In TLM, I think McKeller was a bit accidental - the story was told from Rodney's point of view, she was the only other character there, and it added to the 'tragedy' that she died. They had no idea they were going to put Woolsey in command in the next season at that point, they were probably doing what they did in TNG's s7 - throwing ideas at the wall and seeing what would stick. Heck, there's a deleted scene in S&R where Keller gets asked out by.....by.......the Michelle Rodrigez lookalike.

So the McKeller bit may have been done irrespective of chemistry. Looked good on paper (which is why I don't mind it in SGARising), but not on-screen. I think Sheyla is similar. If I were writing the show in s1, I would have headed it in that direction. But not by the end of s1 (and certainly not after LFP). I think, from an acting perspective, some of the things that hindered McKeller may have hindered Sheyla. Friends, shared interests, saw each other as family......But I may be reading waaaaaaay to much into that. On SGA, Joe had this habit of acting a little uncomfortable around women Sheppard was attracted to (unless they were, um, not serious attractions, such as Princess Tower and Dr PhDD). That kinda fits with how he played the Sheyla scenes - kinda how he played the McShep scenes. I wonder if the idea of Sparky didn't occur to him until much later, which may be why the chemisty was a little different.

That was unclear to me too. I think you're right that the first part was the writer's opinion. This was an article by someone who is a blogger and it looks like she wrote about lots of other guests at the con also.

If TPTB ever seriously considered Sparky, they sure didn't admit it to the fans.

They knew about it. Gero was on Gateworld, and his "sometimes a hug is just a hug" comment screams to me that he was aware of how it was perceived, at least by a section of fandom. I think they were happy to keep things as they were at that point - don't overtly tease the shippers (and subsequently back themselves into a corner/black hole) like they did with Sam/Jack, but don't rule it out altogether either.

Frankly, it insults me as a viewer to think that they weren't, at the very least, aware of it. When I watch a show, I recognise many anvils. Plot anvils, ship anvils, whatever. Sure, sometimes a hug is just a hug, and a shippy line is just convo, but sometimes it's a dangly thread.

That's common in movies and TV. Mr. SR and I were watching a movie over the holiday and commented on the fact that the actress was half the age of the famous actor she was shipped with. Can't have some old wrinkled hag of 40 matched up with Mr. Stud Muffin, I guess. *snort*

This has been an incredibly judgmental post so far, so let's continue I can't say I oppose the May-December thing carte blanche, because I don't. It's more an attitude/maturity thing. If they act they same age, then their physical age is somewhat irrelevant. That's why I don't Shep/Keller working. Do you remember Space Cowboys? I cringed when they shipped Tommy Lee Jones's character with the much younger, very starstruck, doctor.

Brilliant analysis. I recently learned also that since the personnel changes at MGM, they apparently have called a halt to any further Sheyla in those tie-in books. Wish they had done that earlier.

To me, Gero publicly put a stop to it with his uncomfortable delivery of "she just had a baby" during that s5 convention.

Oh right, Larrin. I think I had managed to blank my memory of her.

I like to too. But they did have a bad patch of s4 eps where they introduced characters badly (Keller, Carter, Larrin), so I can't hold it all against her.

Interesting, I hadn't heard that. The fact that they've stopped doing pre-printed runs and are focusing solely on ebooks (and some print on demand, I think?) tells me that they've lost confidence in making enough sales to justify continuing to do the books. I wonder if the only reason the books are still being written at all is because Fandemonium's contract is still live, and that when the contract comes up for renewal, MGM will choose to let it lapse, killing the books altogether and putting the final nail in the coffin of the SG-1/SGA/SGU franchise so that they can focus on the new film franchise more closely based on the Emmerich film. Food for thought.

That makes financial sense. I haven't bought anything since s5, and there's no way I'd buy any of the books.

Yeah there were a couple of reasons I didn't feel like going. I was feeling kind of depressed and I had just spent a whole lot of money on myself and didn't feel comfortable spending a lot more.

Plus I remembered my one previous convention experience. It was cool and I got autographs from Billy Dee Williams and LeVar Burton, but I remember feeling super embarrassed talking to them. I know these guys all must run into their share of nervous fans ibut I felt like there was a good chance I'd feel like I made a bad impression with Joe Flanigan too if I tried again.

Forget that. I went to a con in NZ by accident (I was literally just walking down the street, then walked in when I saw the sign) where Don Davis was a guest. I really wish I had gone up and said hello, because he was a brilliant human being. If you were/are a little worried about being nervous, forget about it. They're used to that, and you might surprise yourself

You shouldn't worry about that. I managed to get a very personalized autograph cause I had blurted a "Hu?!" out during Neil Roberts' introduction of Morena Baccarin at a Firefly convention. I was all the way in the front so not too far from where he was standing. It was in reference to her having been in some Shakespeare plays I didn't know. As a result every time he spotted me during the weekend he'd refer to me as Ms Shakespeare which he also wrote in the autograph.

I hadn't planned on getting one from him but everyone, even people I didn't know, urged me to get one anyway and I'm glad I did.

And I have been known to make a complete fool, babbling at will, in front of, among others, Jewel Staite.

I don't want to think what I would blurt out if ever I were to meet Claire Rankin in real life. Unless, I revert to that same person that went for an autograph from Anthony Daniels - C-3PO. I was so in awe with him that I didn't say a word, and just grinned like an idiot.

OMGWTFBBQMICE!!!! You haven'tt met Claire yet??

the advent for Dec. 1st was made by taris-eirien

Love it

[Falcon Horus]

Heck, there's a deleted scene in S&R where Keller gets asked out by.....by.......the Michelle Rodrigez lookalike.

*tries to be helpful*

...
...
...

Nope, can't remember.

Alicia Vega - which took me a while to find since I mixed up my seasons and thought S&R was season 4.

Forget that. I went to a con in NZ by accident (I was literally just walking down the street, then walked in when I saw the sign) where Don Davis was a guest. I really wish I had gone up and said hello, because he was a brilliant human being. If you were/are a little worried about being nervous, forget about it. They're used to that, and you might surprise yourself

Don Davis and Corin Nemec were the first Stargate actors I met, and Don was indeed a brilliant human being. I'll never forget that meeting ever. And Corin wrote my name wrong.

OMGWTFBBQMICE!!!! You haven'tt met Claire yet??

Nope, haven't. Wouldn't even know where, it's not like she gets invited much to nearby conventions.

[Southern Red]

I know you were making seperate points here, but they do tie together somewhat. I wonder if in Trio, they were just going for a friends vibe with McKeller. They'd already had a sort-of Keller/Dex thing in Quarantine, and the 'beer' tag scene could have been platonic (and actually, at that point, it was). In TLM, I think McKeller was a bit accidental - the story was told from Rodney's point of view, she was the only other character there, and it added to the 'tragedy' that she died. They had no idea they were going to put Woolsey in command in the next season at that point, they were probably doing what they did in TNG's s7 - throwing ideas at the wall and seeing what would stick. Heck, there's a deleted scene in S&R where Keller gets asked out by.....by.......the Michelle Rodrigez lookalike.

And yet they went with McKeller. That one didn't stick IMHO. It slid down the wall and melted like a gob of warm Jello.

So the McKeller bit may have been done irrespective of chemistry. Looked good on paper (which is why I don't mind it in SGARising), but not on-screen. I think Sheyla is similar. If I were writing the show in s1, I would have headed it in that direction. But not by the end of s1 (and certainly not after LFP). I think, from an acting perspective, some of the things that hindered McKeller may have hindered Sheyla. Friends, shared interests, saw each other as family......But I may be reading waaaaaaay to much into that. On SGA, Joe had this habit of acting a little uncomfortable around women Sheppard was attracted to (unless they were, um, not serious attractions, such as Princess Tower and Dr PhDD). That kinda fits with how he played the Sheyla scenes - kinda how he played the McShep scenes. I wonder if the idea of Sparky didn't occur to him until much later, which may be why the chemisty was a little different.

I think most of this was discussed at one time or another in great detail. I agree with you totally. Before I got heavily into the Sparky thread, I assumed they were going with Sheyla. The lead up to Conversion with the TV Guide cover and all was like a huge neon sign, but then the actual episode drove a stake in the heart of that ship IMHO. Afterwards, I took a step back and realized that they had said something along the lines of there was going to be a change in the John/Teyla relationship. We again just assumed it was going to be a move forward in the ship, not a move backwards. Again IMHO.

As for the next idea in your post, I also agree totally with that. Torri wasn't around much. She filmed her scenes in a day or two, while the others were there all day every day. I think the friendships were formed accordingly. Putting Joe and Rachel together would have been as awkward for them as it was for David and Jewel, and it would have shown on screen. The writers were just so in love with Jewel, they couldn't imagine anyone not having chemistry with her. And the fact that Rachel was so beautiful also clouded their judgement. If you listen to the commentaries from S1, you'll see that.

They knew about it. Gero was on Gateworld, and his "sometimes a hug is just a hug" comment screams to me that he was aware of how it was perceived, at least by a section of fandom. I think they were happy to keep things as they were at that point - don't overtly tease the shippers (and subsequently back themselves into a corner/black hole) like they did with Sam/Jack, but don't rule it out altogether either.

Frankly, it insults me as a viewer to think that they weren't, at the very least, aware of it. When I watch a show, I recognise many anvils. Plot anvils, ship anvils, whatever. Sure, sometimes a hug is just a hug, and a shippy line is just convo, but sometimes it's a dangly thread.

Now that it has come out that they at least considered Sparky, we know they were aware of it, but they refused to admit it at any point previously. That should have been a clue, I guess, in that they were trying to keep their options open and not tip their hand, but they caused a huge ship war by not clarifying. Which, to them, might have been a good thing.

This has been an incredibly judgmental post so far, so let's continue I can't say I oppose the May-December thing carte blanche, because I don't. It's more an attitude/maturity thing. If they act they same age, then their physical age is somewhat irrelevant. That's why I don't Shep/Keller working. Do you remember Space Cowboys? I cringed when they shipped Tommy Lee Jones's character with the much younger, very starstruck, doctor.

Oh gosh, I cringe all the time. They keep shipping the old guys like Stallone, Eastwood, etc with girls young enough to be their granddaughters.

To me, Gero publicly put a stop to it with his uncomfortable delivery of "she just had a baby" during that s5 convention.

I had forgotten about that. I remember he was shocked that someone even asked, and didn't he say she was taken. I know JM talked about how Teyla had gotten her "happy ending", so I think Kanaan was a done deal. Yet, JM said they were going to go Sheyla in the movie. I think they were going to kill off poor Kanaan, but alas, didn't happen.

OMGWTFBBQMICE!!!! You haven'tt met Claire yet??

I just had to quote this part for its sheer awesomeness. Good memories.

[M-CharmedAlantian]

And yet they went with McKeller. That one didn't stick IMHO. It slid down the wall and melted like a gob of warm Jello.



I think most of this was discussed at one time or another in great detail. I agree with you totally. Before I got heavily into the Sparky thread, I assumed they were going with Sheyla. The lead up to Conversion with the TV Guide cover and all was like a huge neon sign, but then the actual episode drove a stake in the heart of that ship IMHO. Afterwards, I took a step back and realized that they had said something along the lines of there was going to be a change in the John/Teyla relationship. We again just assumed it was going to be a move forward in the ship, not a move backwards. Again IMHO.

As for the next idea in your post, I also agree totally with that. Torri wasn't around much. She filmed her scenes in a day or two, while the others were there all day every day. I think the friendships were formed accordingly. Putting Joe and Rachel together would have been as awkward for them as it was for David and Jewel, and it would have shown on screen. The writers were just so in love with Jewel, they couldn't imagine anyone not having chemistry with her. And the fact that Rachel was so beautiful also clouded their judgement. If you listen to the commentaries from S1, you'll see that.






Now that it has come out that they at least considered Sparky, we know they were aware of it, but they refused to admit it at any point previously. That should have been a clue, I guess, in that they were trying to keep their options open and not tip their hand, but they caused a huge ship war by not clarifying. Which, to them, might have been a good thing.





Oh gosh, I cringe all the time. They keep shipping the old guys like Stallone, Eastwood, etc with girls young enough to be their granddaughters.




I had forgotten about that. I remember he was shocked that someone even asked, and didn't he say she was taken. I know JM talked about how Teyla had gotten her "happy ending", so I think Kanaan was a done deal. Yet, JM said they were going to go Sheyla in the movie. I think they were going to kill off poor Kanaan, but alas, didn't happen.





I just had to quote this part for its sheer awesomeness. Good memories.

After hearing that, it kinda makes me glad that they didn't do the movie

[Falcon Horus]

After hearing that, it kinda makes me glad that they didn't do the movie

I'm just glad they never got to do it for a whole slew of reasons... and I think Sheyla was really the least of my issues.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Canon Monday!

It slid down the wall and melted like a gob of warm Jello.

Which, frankly, can be said about a whole lot of TPTW's decisions in S4-5.

Now that it has come out that they at least considered Sparky, we know they were aware of it, but they refused to admit it at any point previously. That should have been a clue, I guess, in that they were trying to keep their options open and not tip their hand, but they caused a huge ship war by not clarifying. Which, to them, might have been a good thing.

But ended up being a pretty bad thing for the show itself, and the fans.

I'm just glad they never got to do it for a whole slew of reasons... and I think Sheyla was really the least of my issues.

Indeed. There were a whole lot of things that went wrong in my eyes in the last two seasons, and what we have heard about the plans for the movie would've just made those wrong things even worse. Better for us all that the movie was killed.