Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Bama]

That would be the one. And actually, I'd have agree with Easter Lily. I didn't have a problem with Jack and Laira. I found the conversation between Sam and Janet reveal apparant feelings Sam had for Jack a bit of a jolt.
ITA, it makes things look one sided and makes the woman look pathetic and desparate for a man who doesn't seem to be interested.

As in meaning you didn't care for the conversation? I vaguely remember it but not well enough to comment.

Idle thought here: I think sometimes though, we shippers are too picky (and I'm not pointing you out at all SGLAB but speak about all of us in general- definitely including myself). We seem to want perfection from our own POV from a ship in how it's handled instead of being realistic enough to realize that everyone's POV is a little different about how a ship should be built and moved forward and we forget that these male writers are often 'trying' but are writing from a totally different and foreign POV to us. *Like maybe in their eyes, all females really are pathetic and desperate*
Yeah, I think they should listen to females a bit more and pay attention to how women like a ship portrayed in general but I think they really do like to please all the fans they can including shippers and just have some misconceptions about what pleases us sometimes. I try to put myself in their shoes every now and again and it's like they're damned if they do with us and damned if they don't. So, I wonder if they sometimes just tune us out and say, 'blast it, we'll do it the darn way it pleases us to do it.' Perhaps as females, we do have a bit of a 'chip' on our shoulder about how we want it done and many times I think we 'look' for things to be dissatisfied with in regard to a ship rather than just enjoying the good things we've gotten from one.

*end stray thought*

Now, having said that, I reserve the right as a female to gripe all I want.

[Lexa Jayde]

this is why i cant wait to see TLG...

Spoiler:

Torri : out of character and kicking ass

.... Torri said that it was her favourite episode because of what she gets to do....

[Bama]

I just remembered that John said something to Chaya about not believing he is in a "romantic situation" with someone from another planet. (Does that include Teyla, hee?) Anyway, the point is he used the word "romantic". Meaning he saw the situation with her as his version of romance. Pathetic I know, but it proves the point that he doesn't really understand what a real relationship is but has this more basic hormonal idea of what "romance' entails. Boy meets girl. Boy takes girl on a picnic since no drive in movies are available in the Pegasus Galaxy, as far as we know, and well, you fill in the rest. Never mind taking time to get to know her. Boy, first Chia pet and now maybe another ancient. His girlfriends keep going all glowy bug on him, don't they? Boy did I just date myself with the drive in comment.

Then on Conversion. I guess we should spoiler this.

Spoiler:

I'm not sure they were consciously trying to communicate, but that each was trying to protect the other. She was determined to save him at all costs, and he was trying to be self sacrificial as usual and get her the hell away from him for her own protection. He used intimidation to try and convince her that he was dangerous when she first came into his room, and then later when he had so little humanity left that he couldn't even talk in sentences, he was still able to show her he was dangerous but stop without actually harming her. Imagine what control that must have taken. Probably the last of John Sheppard left him at that moment, and then he just wanted to find somebody to end it for him. Poor woobie. And all that without mussing the hair.

That's just it Southern- John couldn't bring himself to COME OUT AND SAY:

Spoiler:

'I want to protect you from me' but he skirted all around it and said it to her in 3 dozen other ways. (yes, I exaggerate) And she couldn't just COME OUT AND SAY: 'I cannot bear the thought of losing you and I want to be the one here for you to lean on' but she said it with actions and other 'near' lines. I felt they were frustrated at themselves and each other for being unable to truly communcate plainly with each other and having to talk in this 'code' language at a time when they both really wanted/needed to share some deep feelings they had with the other.

But maybe that's just me projecting again. *shrug*

[LurkerLa]

Oh boy - look at all the Epiphany speculation! I wanna see this NOW! *bounce bounce*

Epiphany

Spoiler:

I'm really looking forward to learning more about John - we haven't had a Sheppard centric ep yet, have we? Not like BIS was Weir centric, at any rate. It'll be nice to learn more about what makes him tick, and to expand on what we already know. And I'm not worried about the "100 Days" type thing at all, for everything y'all have already said. Actually, considering I used to (maybe still am a teeny bit) a Sam/Jack shipper, I didn't really mind "100 Days." I tend to forget about it most of the time. Okay, that was drifitng off topic... where was I?

Anyway, I left work to do a project for work, not to play on Gateworld, so I should probably do that.

Also, I'm stuck on my pirate fic - anyone know how to get unstuck? I've never really had a problem with writing - at least when it comes to my original fiction - because it's usually a short piece (except for that one 70 page novella I wrote in 7th grade) but this one's giving me problems... Ack - must quit writing and go do project!

[Lexa Jayde]

That's just it Southern- John couldn't bring himself to COME OUT AND SAY:

Spoiler:

'I want to protect you from me' but he skirted all around it and said it to her in 3 dozen other ways. (yes, I exaggerate) And she couldn't just COME OUT AND SAY: 'I cannot bear the thought of losing you and I want to be the one here for you to lean on' but she said it with actions and other 'near' lines. I felt they were frustrated at themselves and each other for being unable to truly communcate plainly with each other and having to talk in this 'code' language at a time when they both really wanted/needed to share some deep feelings they had with the other.

But maybe that's just me projecting again. *shrug*

oooohhhhh.... i doin think that you are just projecting.... if so i love the way that you projject your thoughts.....
i agree on the fact that

Spoiler:

John and Liz do get frustrated aty themselves and at each other in conversion, just wantoing to say something , but not being able to....

[Jenova Synthesis]

well said!!!!!!!! we need more women perspective.... Liz is a strong character, let her show that....

So totally agree with you. I think it would also be very interesting to see the reaction of some man to the possibility of Liz having a romance. Also thought a lot of times about what might have happened if Simon had come to Atlantis, too. Don't think that I like this guy (not with that bad hair-do ).
I was in the Sheyla thread *hides and hopes not to be beaten* and s.o. wrote that it would be great if Teyla had a boyfriend (who has not to be s.o. of Atlantis) just because she deserves one.

[Lexa Jayde]

So totally agree with you. I think it would also be very interesting to see the reaction of some man to the possibility of Liz having a romance. Also thought a lot of times about what might have happened if Simon had come to Atlantis, too. Don't think that I like this guy (not with that bad hair-do ).
I was in the Sheyla thread *hides and hopes not to be beaten* and s.o. wrote that it would be great if Teyla had a boyfriend (who has not to be s.o. of Atlantis) just because she deserves one.

heehee... no fear of lurking in a sheyla thread, checking out the enemy is good...

[Major_Moomin]

I wonder why they haven't had more backstory for her? Maybe because TPTB think the life of a diplomat would be boring to us?

Major_Moomin- Love the last part of your sig! Really funny! But I'm kinda confused and disturbed by the first part...

Do you think I should get rid of it?...I don't want you to be having nightmares...

-Does anyone know how the hell paintshop pro works???...geez..it's hurting my brain!..all I wanna do is put bits out of two pics together!...

[gwenhwyfar]

Do you think I should get rid of it?...I don't want you to be having nightmares...

*LOL* No! No nightmares. Just a really disturbing image in my head.

*Heads off to the JFT thread to clear mind*

[Lexa Jayde]

i just watched Home again.... ooohhh i love that episode....the part where Liz says hello to her dog... with it being Torri's real dog and haveing just met her, the way she greets Sedge is sooo torri and not Liz... anyway there were so many shippy moments... "War and Peace" oohh i love it!!!!!

[parsifal]

Yeah, this always happens to the "guys". I like to see Carter or Weir stuck somewhere for months - get themselves a nice BF of the week, and show the fellas working to get them back. Would be a nice twist.

I'm all for having the guys emote some, but surely that can be done without making the women so sad as to stoop to sterotyped conceptions of "male" behavior. Don't you think?

And seriously, would anyone give up on their entire life after only three months? (Probably a question better reserved for another thread)

[Bama]

I'm all for having the guys emote some, but surely that can be done without making the women so sad as to stoop to sterotyped conceptions of "male" behavior. Don't you think?

And seriously, would anyone give up on their entire life after only three months? (Probably a question better reserved for another thread)

Naw P, it's a great question for this thread too. ; ) Was Jack really only gone for that long?

I doubt we'll see Shep giving up on his life even after a longer period. I sense that Atlantis has just become so special and significant and important to him in various ways. I think Atlantis is the true 'home' that Shep has searched for but never truly found until now. I loved the earlier convo and Southern's thought about what the title might actually refer to.

Spoiler:

I don't think we'll see Shep give up on his Atlantis life in the least. I actually think the ep will be like BIS for Elizabeth in that it will showcase just how much he loves his home and the people there. With the possibility that the 'woman' that Mel keeps referring to reminding him of (hopefully) Elizabeth (I'm sure that will be left to interpretation but I do think it'll be clear to those who really pay attention), it appears we may be for a real 'vision' of how John views not only himself in regard to Atlantis and his role there but also how he views himself in regard to EW. I look for him to fight like heck-like a man possessed to get back to what (and who?) he's come to love.

I'm chompin at the bit to get to the back half of this season. These episodes have a ton of potential for great characterization. We all know the leadership 'shakeup' is coming. And I'd give my Bama-Auburn football tickets right now to see TLG and Epiphany back to back. *Can't believe I just typed that one*

[Lexa Jayde]

I'm all for having the guys emote some, but surely that can be done without making the women so sad as to stoop to sterotyped conceptions of "male" behavior. Don't you think?

And seriously, would anyone give up on their entire life after only three months? (Probably a question better reserved for another thread)

i just cant wait to see the reunion... but i am scared that TPTB will do something like Paradise Lost, big emotion scene from Sam and then no reunion....grr.... lets hope Shep/Weir fair better than that....

[SGLAB]

I tried posting this earlier and then GW stopped responding. Instead of deleting what I typed I saved it in Word until I could now post.

As in meaning you didn't care for the conversation? I vaguely remember it but not well enough to comment.

In the scene Sam's been working long and hard to get Jack back. Janet comes over to her and asks her something that implies Janet is aware Sam has feelings for Jack that go deeper than friendship. Or commander and subordinate. I just felt like it was so out of the blue. Up to that ep. I don't really see anything shippy between Jack and Sam.

I started seriously watching sg-1 mid season 4 and saw the hints of ship and figured when I caught up to the previous seasons I would see something, but I really didn't so as I said that scene in 100 Days seemed to be a bit jolting to me when I saw it in reruns.

Of course conversely when someone says something to say Elizabeth that hints at possible deeper feelings toward John it doesn't feel so jolting. Like Caldwell's comment in Conversion.

Idle thought here: I think sometimes though, we shippers are too picky (and I'm not pointing you out at all EL but speak about all of us in general- definitely including myself). We seem to want perfection from our own POV from a ship in how it's handled instead of being realistic enough to realize that everyone's POV is a little different about how a ship should be built and moved forward and we forget that these male writers are often 'trying' but are writing from a totally different and foreign POV to us. *Like maybe in their eyes, all females really are pathetic and desperate*
Yeah, I think they should listen to females a bit more and pay attention to how women like a ship portrayed in general but I think they really do like to please all the fans they can including shippers and just have some misconceptions about what pleases us sometimes. I try to put myself in their shoes every now and again and it's like they're damned if they do with us and damned if they don't. So, I wonder if they sometimes just tune us out and say, 'blast it, we'll do it the darn way it pleases us to do it.' Perhaps as females, we do have a bit of a 'chip' on our shoulder about how we want it done and many times I think we 'look' for things to be dissatisfied with in regard to a ship rather than just enjoying the good things we've gotten from one.

*end stray thought*

Now, having said that, I reserve the right as a female to gripe all I want.

Sometimes I think tptb are trying to please everyone and wind up pleasing no one or very few. So I think they should follow JK Rowling and do what they darn well please.

Then I see tptb in interviews on those Lowdowns and think maybe they should listen to us.

I think I'm going to reserve my right as a female to gripe all I want too, Bama.

[parsifal]

i just cant wait to see the reunion... but i am scared that TPTB will do something like Paradise Lost, big emotion scene from Sam and then no reunion....grr.... lets hope Shep/Weir fair better than that....

Given what Melyanna has said, I wouldn't be surprised if "Epiphany"

Spoiler:

ends without a reunion scene. I'd guess that TPTB will skip it because to do it honestly would probably be too "shippy" for them. Maybe the next episode will open with a balcony conversation, though...