Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

Anuna isn't an American or someone who comes from a place where English would be her mother tongue? Could've fooled me.

No, she's from Croatia.

[Sparky She-Demon]

No, she's from Croatia.

I believe you guys. I was just saying that her English is *that* good!

[ShipperWriter]

Got a haircut. My head feels 5 lbs lighter.

Gonna read some fic, and maybe write a little more on mine while I'm waiting on my cat to come back inside before bed.

So I just had an interesting thought. Keeping in mind that CG is on the schedule for the post-a-thon tomorrow, correct? Suppose, for some bizarre reason, that John and Elizabeth's experiences in TRW and CG were swapped. Do you think that they would've reacted/handled the situation differently?

And on that note, I'm signing off.

[Sparky She-Demon]

Got a haircut. My head feels 5 lbs lighter.

Gonna read some fic, and maybe write a little more on mine while I'm waiting on my cat to come back inside before bed.

So I just had an interesting thought. Keeping in mind that CG is on the schedule for the post-a-thon tomorrow, correct? Suppose, for some bizarre reason, that John and Elizabeth's experiences in TRW and CG were swapped. Do you think that they would've reacted/handled the situation differently?

And on that note, I'm signing off.

I know the feeling about hair. I always feel like my head is several pounds lighter after words. Now, the experience swap between John and Elizabeth for TRW and CG... I feel a possible plot bunny coming into my mind. *starts to try and chase the plot bunny away*

[drewandian]

I've been having the same problem with Photoshop Elements since my iMac had to be rebuilt, and I had to go back to Lion because it's too old to run Mountain Lion. If you can get yourself a good external drive for backup, you can save everything and won't lose stuff. Computers are wonderful until they aren't. With a laptop, you can backup on a USB.

After I broke my power cord on my laptop, I did back everything up on flash drives...I guess I must've missed some stuff tho And this laptop was running GiMP fine at first but then something wonky happened and we had to completely restore it (I think my gf dl'ing "Need for Speed" messed it up ) and now GiMP crashes all the time. I'll figure it out (I hope)

Songs from Evanesence remind me quite a lot of Lizzie and John.

And yes, if you don't mind i will use your sig. I don't know how to make sigs but i love this one you made, thank you for sharing.

Evanescence makes me think of them a lot too...so do a lot of songs actually. I kinda have a "hear a story in the song" problem. It may require an intervention lol

Use away...I like to share my arts

I used My Immortal for a musicvid once... a cross-over between SGA and Forever Knight (Kate/Elizabeth, Fleur/Erica).

So, good for vidding too...

I don't know how to vid...but I use a lot of songs for fics and art...*iz a music geek*

To me it started somewhere after Conversion, don't ask me why, but to me it seems that something changed between them from that episode on.

I see their relationship shifting from professional to something a little more intimate, flirty and personal after 38 Minutes. As far as it becoming physical...I'm a bit rusty on the eps and need to go back and rewatch before I could definitively pinpoint that.

[drewandian]

Oh and I forgot! RE: Torri and Stonehenge Apocalypse....it's like a crack!fic brought to screen...great B movie type of movie. I've watched it a few times and can't help but love how bad it is! LOL and she even tells her fans that she knows it's bad and has called those of us who've watched it "suckers" for watching.

and...it was on Syfy this morning (I dvr'd it again, even tho I have it burnt on DVD around here somewhere lol)

[Sparky She-Demon]

I've come to think their relationship was always closer than average, but I think it became closer after John detonated that EMP in season 1 to avert the near nanite fiasco. As for when the relationship starting to get physical, I say after "The Long Goodbye".

At least, that's how it works in my head.

In Stonehenge Apocalypse, she can't keep that British accent going at all! But I still liked her in it!

[Sequoia Hope]

So I just had an interesting thought. Keeping in mind that CG is on the schedule for the post-a-thon tomorrow, correct? Suppose, for some bizarre reason, that John and Elizabeth's experiences in TRW and CG were swapped. Do you think that they would've reacted/handled the situation differently?

Oooh, very good question. This post is pretty long, so I've subdivided it.

The Real World:

John: Suppose that he was the one infected with nanites, and he wakes up in a psychological hospital. Unlike Elizabeth, who was resistant at first, I think that John would have been more likely to acquiesce when told that Atlantis and the past two years of his life were just a figment of his imagination. Before Atlantis, his life was already pretty screwed up, as he had defied orders to rescue a comrade in Afghanistan, only to fail and be shipped off to McMurdo. Now, he's told that Atlantis, a second chance for him, was just a dream. I can imagine him thinking, "I knew this was too good to be true."

But I don't think that John would have been as easily scared when he starts seeing a black (or maybe red?) silhouette. Remember, he always said, "We don't leave our people behind," and he never forgets who has been lost. Basically, he never forgets the past, and I think that upon seeing something that had been part of a life he was told he had never lived, he would have been extremely defiant. And I also think that after seeing Elizabeth just once or twice, he would have gotten the strength he needed to fight. He would have thought that he had nothing more to lose, and he would have done whatever it took to get back to Atlantis. He wouldn't have needed to depend on Elizabeth to guide him back as much as she had looked to him.

Elizabeth: I wonder, first of all, if she would have been able to stay with him the entire time. I'm a bit skeptical, because she is the leader of Atlantis, and she does have other duties to attend to. Just like in "Conversion," even though she was very worried about John, she couldn't neglect her other work in order to constantly stay by his side. I think that it would have been more feasible if she was aware of the situation but asks Carson to radio her if there are updates.

And I will say quite candidly, I don't think that she would have risked her life to save John's. Other members of his team might have - they are often in life-and-death situations and have an instinct that tells them, "We will do everything we need to do to save each other." But Elizabeth doesn't have that kind of mentality, and as painful as it might have been, I think that she would have had to accept whatever happened to John. And not to mention that Elizabeth is still John's boss. Not only would bursting into the isolation tent and grabbing John's arm have made her look too desperate, but the insinuations of this action wouldn't have looked good professionally at all.

Common Ground:

Elizabeth: She would have been terrified to death. That much, I can ascertain. And forget about trying to escape with a Wraith - I don't think that Elizabeth would have ever been able to pull that off. She would have had to completely depend on John to send in teams and get her out. And I don't think that she could have cared less about what John did in order to do so, even if it meant turning Ladon in. She would have been so shaken and traumatized by the whole ordeal that she wouldn't have reprimanded John for yielding to a terrorist.

But I actually think that the entire episode would have played out differently if Elizabeth had been the one captured and held hostage by Kolya. I don't know... Koyla was ready to kill Elizabeth in "The Storm," but being shot by a gun would have provided a quick and painless death. On the contrary, being fed upon by a Wraith is slow and painful. I can't picture Kolya being so cold-blooded to the point that he has a Wraith feed on a defenseless woman whom he has had no personal dealings with, unlike with John. Kolya lowered his gun in "The Eye," but not only because Rodney had said that she had codes that only she knew. Kolya also saw the value in Elizabeth and how he could use her as a bargaining chip to get what he wanted from John. I think that he would have done the same in "Common Ground": hold Elizabeth hostage until John gives him what he wants, whether it's Ladon or Atlantis' weapons, valuable schematics, or medical supplies. And Kolya knows that John would do anything to get Elizabeth back unharmed. Kolya might have showed John the Wraith to give him an incentive, but the Wraith would have never actually fed on Elizabeth.

John: He would have been ready to bargain anything he had to bargain to get Elizabeth back, especially if he saw that there was a Wraith with her. Turning Ladon over? Not a problem. Giving Kolya a Jumper? "I'll give you a ship! I'll fly it out of here for you myself!" as he had screamed so lividly at the end of "The Storm." Unlike Elizabeth, who is more concerned with the ethical side to every issue, John would have just wanted to get his people back, no matter the cost.

John would have yielded to Kolya's demands, but because he wouldn't have trusted Koyla's word that he'll let Elizabeth go if he gets what he wants, he would have also sent in a team to find Elizabeth and get her out. Now here is where Sparky comes in... I wonder if John might have left Teyla in charge of the city and put himself in the team. He would have been taking a huge risk, especially since Koyla would have wanted to deal with him specifically, and the situation could have gone horribly wrong if Koyla called Atlantis and he wasn't there. But would he have taken such a risk to see for himself that Elizabeth is all right? I definitely wonder about this.

[Sparky She-Demon]

Raising some good points.

[Southern Red]

Got a haircut. My head feels 5 lbs lighter.

Gonna read some fic, and maybe write a little more on mine while I'm waiting on my cat to come back inside before bed.

So I just had an interesting thought. Keeping in mind that CG is on the schedule for the post-a-thon tomorrow, correct? Suppose, for some bizarre reason, that John and Elizabeth's experiences in TRW and CG were swapped. Do you think that they would've reacted/handled the situation differently?

And on that note, I'm signing off.

This comes up just when I don't have time to do it justice, but I will get back with my thoughts. Maybe tomorrow.

And, on that note, I have to miss the postathon today due to a commitment to attend a Christmas concert at our friend's church. Bad timing.

After I broke my power cord on my laptop, I did back everything up on flash drives...I guess I must've missed some stuff tho And this laptop was running GiMP fine at first but then something wonky happened and we had to completely restore it (I think my gf dl'ing "Need for Speed" messed it up ) and now GiMP crashes all the time. I'll figure it out (I hope)

Is "Need for Speed" a game? That's what did it on mine. After the restore, some things just don't work.

I see their relationship shifting from professional to something a little more intimate, flirty and personal after 38 Minutes. As far as it becoming physical...I'm a bit rusty on the eps and need to go back and rewatch before I could definitively pinpoint that.

I'm one of those rare birds who doesn't think there was ever anything physical between them. Fics are fun, but for speculation and fantasy only in my world. I don't think they ever admitted to each other how they felt, and that's part of the reason John grieved so hard when he lost her.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

so what episode of the rewatch is today?

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Lazy Sunday and... S-minus 5 hours and 45 minutes until the Common Ground post-a-thon!

On the College Football Round-up, Navy beat Army 17-13. Congrats to the Midshipmen!

I'm one of those rare birds who doesn't think there was ever anything physical between them. Fics are fun, but for speculation and fantasy only in my world. I don't think they ever admitted to each other how they felt, and that's part of the reason John grieved so hard when he lost her.

My personal headcanon on Sparky runs much the same way.

And SR, we'll miss you at the 'thon today, but have fun at the concert!

[Scary Kitty]

S-minus 2 hours and 32 minutes until Common Ground!

And something's come up... I may not be able to be here right at the beginning of the thon, but I will try to be here before it's over. Stay tuned.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

I noticed that too and thought it was pretty weird. Maybe he does like to keep things around his wrist, with the black sweatband he wore as John Sheppard, I always wondered a bit where it came from, not that it’s anyone’s business it’s just something you’ve gotten used to seeing on him

John Sheppard’s trademark

Which I will now make this question on topic by asking: if John and Lizzeh had been married, do you think they would've worn traditional wedding rings?

Honestly I don’t know. Maybe they would wear it in private, but during “business hours” maybe not. I don’t know. I guess I have never thought much about it.

There was a fun Stargate confession on Tumblr today:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/de1f7d5b3...cjwo1_1280.jpg

Love it!!!

Just for the record, we invited ShipperWriter to be a part of SGA-Rising. She decided not to join our writing staff, and we both respect and regret her decision. She would have been a great addition to the team.

I really was honored when they asked me, and I wanted to agree so badly, but RL would've been thrown on the back burner when I had a lot of responsibilities. And as much as I love our fandom, I couldn't balance both.

But who knows? Things could change.

Yes, I know. But I just can’t seem to accept that such talent is not being used for this project. But of course I respect Shipper Writer’s decision, but I do really regret it. Maybe Shipper Writer will surprise us and will give us the pleasure of seeing her wonderful work in season 7.

I sure hope they will.

All of the main cast signed for 5 years, however as you may know Rainbow was booted to the kirb starting season 2, and Torri went from regular to guest in season 4. So, I guess we can assume there was a clause in their contracts which made this possible.

BUT like I said before we aren't privvy to the finer details. All we can do, is speculate on the matter.

If I am not mistaken I think they signed for six years.

But one thing is being kicked out only after one season; the other is being kicked out after three seasons just because another actor needed to finish her contract. I just can’t accept it!! (And also because the writers weren’t real writers or good enough writers in order to be able to write them both!)

You mean, her fans might have stopped watching Atlantis (or never watched it in the first place). As a fan you are not obliged to watch everything that your favorite actor has ever played in, you know. There's no shame in it. It is perfectly okay to absolutely not like every bit of their work.

Yes, I am guessing many of her fans, who weren’t watching Atlantis before, probably ended up feeling disappointed with her role in Atlantis.

I disagree with that, I mean if you are a true fan of someone, I think you should do your best to watch everything the actor/actress does, no matter how bad certain things might be sometimes, IMO of course.

Like FH it’s all speculations, I did see an interview here on GW that Torri did right after she was let go or however you want to put it where she said that she admired the writers for their commitment to SG-1, and while it don’t say much nor was it in anything Torri said it has always been fairly obvious that SG-1 came first and that it was their main show and part of me get it it’s pretty sad at the same time. Now I don’t know why they choose to bring At over ot SGA and not some other character, maybe it was because due to ‘Sanctuary’ still hadn’t gone into production (which many people from SG worked on) that she couldn’t say no when they asked or at least still had that connection to SG when the rest of the cast of SG-1 could move on, I dunno, I can’t say that I’m that involved in SG-1 other than what I saw onscreen.

I am definitely sad about it, too, to know that the writers were always more focused on SG1 than on SGA, I mean if that is the case maybe they shouldn’t have given us SGA then.

It's always the magnets fault.

LOL

She very well may have been. Anuna has an amazing grasp of American slang, as do a lot of you non-native English speakers. I am truly in awe of all of you. I have an advanced degree with most of my concentration in English, and I still make tons of mistakes. I don't know any other language well enough to actually read or speak it, but except for some areas where Spanish is spoken a lot, there is little opportunity to use another language.

I am also not too bad with American slang, since I watch many American TV series and movies I can learn from there, but there are still some that confuse me sometimes.

So I just had an interesting thought. Keeping in mind that CG is on the schedule for the post-a-thon tomorrow, correct? Suppose, for some bizarre reason, that John and Elizabeth's experiences in TRW and CG were swapped. Do you think that they would've reacted/handled the situation differently?

I think they would have reacted according to their personalities, which means I think they would handle the situation differently, yes.

Common Ground:

Elizabeth: She would have been terrified to death. That much, I can ascertain. And forget about trying to escape with a Wraith - I don't think that Elizabeth would have ever been able to pull that off. She would have had to completely depend on John to send in teams and get her out. And I don't think that she could have cared less about what John did in order to do so, even if it meant turning Ladon in. She would have been so shaken and traumatized by the whole ordeal that she wouldn't have reprimanded John for yielding to a terrorist.

I am not so sure about it. Remember she was brave enough to face the Replicators.

I disagree. I am sure she would have used her diplomatic skills to try and convince Kolya into releasing her, just like she did in “The Storm” and “The eye”.

And allow me to disagree on this too, because I am sure she would have not liked that John would have turned Ladon in to Kolya in exchange for her own life.

But I actually think that the entire episode would have played out differently if Elizabeth had been the one captured and held hostage by Kolya. I don't know... Koyla was ready to kill Elizabeth in "The Storm," but being shot by a gun would have provided a quick and painless death. On the contrary, being fed upon by a Wraith is slow and painful. I can't picture Kolya being so cold-blooded to the point that he has a Wraith feed on a defenseless woman whom he has had no personal dealings with, unlike with John. Kolya lowered his gun in "The Eye," but not only because Rodney had said that she had codes that only she knew. Kolya also saw the value in Elizabeth and how he could use her as a bargaining chip to get what he wanted from John. I think that he would have done the same in "Common Ground": hold Elizabeth hostage until John gives him what he wants, whether it's Ladon or Atlantis' weapons, valuable schematics, or medical supplies. And Kolya knows that John would do anything to get Elizabeth back unharmed. Kolya might have showed John the Wraith to give him an incentive, but the Wraith would have never actually fed on Elizabeth.

This one here makes me feel divided, I mean in a way Kolya might have acted as you said and maybe he would not have allowed a defenceless woman to be feed upon by a Wraith, but I also wonder if he wouldn’t have gone forward with it knowing that he would hurt John quite a lot by doing so.

John: He would have been ready to bargain anything he had to bargain to get Elizabeth back, especially if he saw that there was a Wraith with her. Turning Ladon over? Not a problem. Giving Kolya a Jumper? "I'll give you a ship! I'll fly it out of here for you myself!" as he had screamed so lividly at the end of "The Storm." Unlike Elizabeth, who is more concerned with the ethical side to every issue, John would have just wanted to get his people back, no matter the cost.

I agree. John would have done it in a blink of an eye.

Definitely!

Use away...I like to share my arts

Thank you.

I see their relationship shifting from professional to something a little more intimate, flirty and personal after 38 Minutes. As far as it becoming physical...I'm a bit rusty on the eps and need to go back and rewatch before I could definitively pinpoint that.

I'm one of those rare birds who doesn't think there was ever anything physical between them. Fics are fun, but for speculation and fantasy only in my world. I don't think they ever admitted to each other how they felt, and that's part of the reason John grieved so hard when he lost her.

I think their relationship was never physical. What I meant is that something in their behaviour changed after “Conversion”, at least in what concerns John, IMO.

I second that.

[gateraid]

I've missed a lot of stuff out here. But thank you to all of those who commented on that little fic I wrote. Maybe Kate is my muse?

Oooh, very good question. This post is pretty long, so I've subdivided it.

The Real World:

John: Suppose that he was the one infected with nanites, and he wakes up in a psychological hospital. Unlike Elizabeth, who was resistant at first, I think that John would have been more likely to acquiesce when told that Atlantis and the past two years of his life were just a figment of his imagination. Before Atlantis, his life was already pretty screwed up, as he had defied orders to rescue a comrade in Afghanistan, only to fail and be shipped off to McMurdo. Now, he's told that Atlantis, a second chance for him, was just a dream. I can imagine him thinking, "I knew this was too good to be true."

But I don't think that John would have been as easily scared when he starts seeing a black (or maybe red?) silhouette. Remember, he always said, "We don't leave our people behind," and he never forgets who has been lost. Basically, he never forgets the past, and I think that upon seeing something that had been part of a life he was told he had never lived, he would have been extremely defiant. And I also think that after seeing Elizabeth just once or twice, he would have gotten the strength he needed to fight. He would have thought that he had nothing more to lose, and he would have done whatever it took to get back to Atlantis. He wouldn't have needed to depend on Elizabeth to guide him back as much as she had looked to him.

I don't buy him thinking Atlantis was a dream. He was pretty quick to pick up on the altered reality in Home. Granted, the situation would be a little different here (wouldn't it be interesting to see what scenario they came up with?) so I can't say that with absolute certainty. In order to make it work in his head, I think they would have to make it similar to Phantoms (confusing the enemies via flashbacks), which would be a lot harder to write.

I also think that had it been John, there is no way he would have seen Elizabeth. I can't think of a way that could occur without it being shippy. It's more likely he would have seen Rodney, or possibly Teyla (which they could fudge a little by it being a side effect of the wraith tissue injected into him).

Elizabeth: I wonder, first of all, if she would have been able to stay with him the entire time. I'm a bit skeptical, because she is the leader of Atlantis, and she does have other duties to attend to. Just like in "Conversion," even though she was very worried about John, she couldn't neglect her other work in order to constantly stay by his side. I think that it would have been more feasible if she was aware of the situation but asks Carson to radio her if there are updates.

And I will say quite candidly, I don't think that she would have risked her life to save John's. Other members of his team might have - they are often in life-and-death situations and have an instinct that tells them, "We will do everything we need to do to save each other." But Elizabeth doesn't have that kind of mentality, and as painful as it might have been, I think that she would have had to accept whatever happened to John. And not to mention that Elizabeth is still John's boss. Not only would bursting into the isolation tent and grabbing John's arm have made her look too desperate, but the insinuations of this action wouldn't have looked good professionally at all.

That pretty much says it all

Common Ground:

Elizabeth: She would have been terrified to death. That much, I can ascertain. And forget about trying to escape with a Wraith - I don't think that Elizabeth would have ever been able to pull that off. She would have had to completely depend on John to send in teams and get her out. And I don't think that she could have cared less about what John did in order to do so, even if it meant turning Ladon in. She would have been so shaken and traumatized by the whole ordeal that she wouldn't have reprimanded John for yielding to a terrorist.

But I actually think that the entire episode would have played out differently if Elizabeth had been the one captured and held hostage by Kolya. I don't know... Koyla was ready to kill Elizabeth in "The Storm," but being shot by a gun would have provided a quick and painless death. On the contrary, being fed upon by a Wraith is slow and painful. I can't picture Kolya being so cold-blooded to the point that he has a Wraith feed on a defenseless woman whom he has had no personal dealings with, unlike with John. Kolya lowered his gun in "The Eye," but not only because Rodney had said that she had codes that only she knew. Kolya also saw the value in Elizabeth and how he could use her as a bargaining chip to get what he wanted from John. I think that he would have done the same in "Common Ground": hold Elizabeth hostage until John gives him what he wants, whether it's Ladon or Atlantis' weapons, valuable schematics, or medical supplies. And Kolya knows that John would do anything to get Elizabeth back unharmed. Kolya might have showed John the Wraith to give him an incentive, but the Wraith would have never actually fed on Elizabeth.

I agree that Kolya probably wouldn't have let Todd feed on her. Also that her and Todd escaping together seems unlikely (unless he carries her). When I read the synopsis for TRW, I thought at the time "how the hell did the wraith get hold of her?". This was before I'd watched s3 and heard of the Asurans.

However I do think she wouldn't have wanted him to use extraordinary measures. She'd already proven in Seige II that she'd put her life on the line for the cause, with the understanding of what it meant to fail (although granted, in that case, there was a chance she'd die anyway even if her mission was successful). While in CG it was semi-implied that she was okay with Ronon killing Kolya, she still stuck to the party line (we do not negotiate with terrorists) for everything else.

John: He would have been ready to bargain anything he had to bargain to get Elizabeth back, especially if he saw that there was a Wraith with her. Turning Ladon over? Not a problem. Giving Kolya a Jumper? "I'll give you a ship! I'll fly it out of here for you myself!" as he had screamed so lividly at the end of "The Storm." Unlike Elizabeth, who is more concerned with the ethical side to every issue, John would have just wanted to get his people back, no matter the cost.

John would have yielded to Kolya's demands, but because he wouldn't have trusted Koyla's word that he'll let Elizabeth go if he gets what he wants, he would have also sent in a team to find Elizabeth and get her out. Now here is where Sparky comes in... I wonder if John might have left Teyla in charge of the city and put himself in the team. He would have been taking a huge risk, especially since Koyla would have wanted to deal with him specifically, and the situation could have gone horribly wrong if Koyla called Atlantis and he wasn't there. But would he have taken such a risk to see for himself that Elizabeth is all right? I definitely wonder about this.

I think what he yelled out at the end of The Storm was just talk. It was just to buy time. Even if he'd handed over a jumper, there'd be a catch (like it exploding). So I think he'd play it by the book in terms of responding to Kolya's demands. But he definitely would have been on the rescue team - for one thing, he's the lead, and yeah...there could possibly have been a second officer and a gentleman shot (the other one being in Echoes)

I'm one of those rare birds who doesn't think there was ever anything physical between them. Fics are fun, but for speculation and fantasy only in my world. I don't think they ever admitted to each other how they felt, and that's part of the reason John grieved so hard when he lost her.

Fly my way red bird, we're eating from the same bird bath on this. I joke that they slept together, but I don't think they ever did