Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Merlin7]

I've been thinking about what you've said in this post and the one before... I guess I tend to talk about episodes in the episode thread which probably why I don't do it anywhere else. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it...

But back to your original comment. I think you made the point also that Sheppard has become the neglected half of this relationship or just the male that is shipped with the girls on Atlantis. This seems to me particularly true of late with episodes like Conversion and The Lost Boys. There was a lot of talk that Conversion was this strongly Sheppard/Teyla moment but honestly, that was only a few minutes in an episode of 42 plus minutes. I think the individual character that is Sheppard has got lost in this whole "He loves her, he loves her not" frenzy that has gripped us this season. We forget that he is his own person... not just female fodder.

The scene that you mentioned is an interesting one in terms of his interaction with Weir. It shows how far they've come in they're willingness to make the tough decisions. Weir, particularly, in not wanting to risk anyone. Sheppard, understanding her position and once again, willing to put himself on the line. He's such a terrific character really... I don't understand the flak that he cops... A self-sacrificing soul really. And I agree with you, I don't think he thinks about himself at all... so ready to put others before his own welfare. *going all teary*

You've nailed it for me. Thank you. I ship Shep with everyone. EVERYONE. I enjoy his interactions with everyone. Zelenka, Ford. Ronon, McKay, Weir, TEyla. I loved his interactions with Chaya..yeah..I know people hated her I liked her and loved the ep. Shep stands on his own for me. He's not the guy to Ship with Weir. The guy to ship with Teyla. He's Shep and he's the guy who would give his life for everyone on Atlantis.

I'm actually glad he has Weir as a friend and she has him in that HE is the only one I've seen her show any, not really weakness..but he's seen her doubt herself and not abused it. Even going over her head so to speak in HZ was not about hurting her or abusing his position.

Shep is an enigma but I love that abuot him. Not that I don't want to know more. But because of JOE I get so much out of each ep he's in. Pick an ep and I'll tell you what I got out of it that has to do with Shep and Shep and his interactions with people/Weir. LOL

[Merlin7]

Joe is six foot, told my friend at a con himself. Torri I believe is 5'7" and that looks right. If you look at stills or watch the eps closely, there's about 5 inches between them. David Nykel is 5'8" and there's just a smidge of height difference between Torri and DN.

[smallgirl]

Which is exactly why I see it as a perfect set-up for an all-encompassing relationship. The best male/female relationships are never built on just sexual attraction. There are many, many people in the world that a person can be sexually attracted to but there are far fewer that a person can really build a trust-worthy, solid foundation for something long term with. That is exactly what I see within the Shep/Weir dynamic that excites me so for them. (Well, that along with the ever so obvious and natural sparkage that tells me they'd be great together in said 'sexual sense' when they finally do act on those building emotions between them to extend their boundries and 'go there') A lot of people will say, 'but, they don't ever have to go beyond friendship'. And the answer is 'no', they absolutely do not. However, I've never gotten an answer that made logical sense to me on how one can choose a lifemate to be with while having a closer relationship with someone else in the world. I do like that they're building this relationship slow and on a very solid foundation *first* before letting sexuality enter into the equation too much. The 'hints' of 'could it be?' are just fine for the time being as they grow and grow together.

Wow this thread (which is always very thoughtful and interesting) has really got going in the last few pages.

In agreement with Bama's comments and so many of other people's about what is so great about Sheppard/Weir's relationship and what potential it has. To start with the remarks by Bama above, I see the same problem with Sheppard and Weir developing romantic relationships with others. They appear to have formed a close bond and I agree that it has a lot to do with what has been posted about them both being thrown in at the deep end when it comes to Atlantis. They had to rely on one another and learn to work as a team or they and everyone else would not have survived. John's show of loyalty regarding Elizabeth when Everett showed up in 'Siege 2' revealed that he has realised this and then Elizabeth's stand in 'Intruder' set their bond in stone. They, as it has been said, are the parents of the Atlantis 'family'. The only way that a romantic relationship could be showed to have any kind of permanence where either one of them is concerned, is if the person they formed it with could indicate the same kind of level of loyalty and trust. You can't have them spending time with someone else and then going off to meet each other on the balcony for a supportive chat. John in particular has never been shown to open up, even a crack, to anyone else and although Elizabeth is more capable of it, we haven't seen it happen with her either. The alternative to them developing a romantic relationship with each other is the odd brief liason with an outsider, which means episodes like Sanctuary every now and again. It certainly wouldn't be surprise if that was the direction that the show went in. SG-1 did it and it is easier to write. Unfortunately I find it less rewarding as a fan. Episodes like that, on the whole, never seem to really take the character involved anywhere useful in terms of meaningful development.

I ship Sheppard/Weir purely because I saw it as relationship, if done properly, that could potentially take both characters a long way in terms of their personal growth. My initial priority was in terms of Sheppard, because he was the one I found most interesting to start with and essentially Weir has gotten stronger for me as a character due in good part to her scenes with Sheppard. Her interaction with him, over the course of season one, was what enhanced my enjoyment of her character. At first she seemed rather stiff and cold but the emotions displayed when dealing with John in particular helped me warm to her. Now I can view them both individually as characters I love watching interact with everyone else. If TPTB were to develop romantic relationships for either one or both of them that were well written and helped me learn more about them then I wouldn't hold on exclusively to the idea of a Sheppard/Weir ship. I always go where a good story leads me. I just think that a lot of very good groundwork has been done where Sheppard and Weir's relationship is concerned and it would be easier if TPTB wanted to go in a romantic direction to build on something with a strong foundation than to start from scratch with something completely new and untried.

[LurkerLa]

I've surprised myself. When i started reading Sparky fic, i deeply prefered the romance/est relationship/smut. Basically anything except friendship!fic but recently i've read some very good friendship!fic that i've enjoyed more than what i usually read.

See, that's funny 'cause with Sparky, as with most other ships in other fandoms, I've always preferred friendship!fic. There are a few exceptions for some shows, but for the most part I like reading fic that hints at the possibility of something more, and advances my understanding of the character, but doesn't take us too far from where we are in the show. That's not to say I won't read romance etc., because I do like that as well, especially when it's well done (I have a couple of Sparky writers that I'm thinking of here, but y'all know them 'cause they post here) but I still always seem to end up homing in on the friendship fic. From time to time I want my pair to get together in the end, but often I'm just as happy if they don't. There are some great fics out there that show Elizabeth and John at the start of the expedition, even before leaving for Atlantis, and I really like those (someone help me out here... titles are escaping me ).

Of course, there are a couple of shows where they've dragged the UST out so long that I'm sick of friendship fics because I'm at the point of JUST RESOLVE IT ALREADY! and if TPTB won't do it, I'll find some fic writer who will. And don't be surprised, but I actually am not referring to SG-1 or X-Files.

[Bama]

Wow this thread (which is always very thoughtful and interesting) has really got going in the last few pages.

In agreement with Bama's comments and so many of other people's about what is so great about Sheppard/Weir's relationship and what potential it has. To start with the remarks by Bama above, I see the same problem with Sheppard and Weir developing romantic relationships with others. They appear to have formed a close bond and I agree that it has a lot to do with what has been posted about them both being thrown in at the deep end when it comes to Atlantis. They had to rely on one another and learn to work as a team or they and everyone else would not have survived. John's show of loyalty regarding Elizabeth when Everett showed up in 'Siege 2' revealed that he has realised this and then Elizabeth's stand in 'Intruder' set their bond in stone. They, as it has been said, are the parents of the Atlantis 'family'. The only way that a romantic relationship could be showed to have any kind of permanence where either one of them is concerned, is if the person they formed it with could indicate the same kind of level of loyalty and trust. You can't have them spending time with someone else and then going off to meet each other on the balcony for a supportive chat. John in particular has never been shown to open up, even a crack, to anyone else and although Elizabeth is more capable of it, we haven't seen it happen with her either. The alternative to them developing a romantic relationship with each other is the odd brief liason with an outsider, which means episodes like Sanctuary every now and again. It certainly wouldn't be surprise if that was the direction that the show went in. SG-1 did it and it is easier to write. Unfortunately I find it less rewarding as a fan. Episodes like that, on the whole, never seem to really take the character involved anywhere useful in terms of meaningful development.

I ship Sheppard/Weir purely because I saw it as relationship, if done properly, that could potentially take both characters a long way in terms of their personal growth. My initial priority was in terms of Sheppard, because he was the one I found most interesting to start with and essentially Weir has gotten stronger for me as a character due in good part to her scenes with Sheppard. Her interaction with him, over the course of season one, was what enhanced my enjoyment of her character. At first she seemed rather stiff and cold but the emotions displayed when dealing with John in particular helped me warm to her. Now I can view them both individually as characters I love watching interact with everyone else. If TPTB were to develop romantic relationships for either one or both of them that were well written and helped me learn more about them then I wouldn't hold on exclusively to the idea of a Sheppard/Weir ship. I always go where a good story leads me. I just think that a lot of very good groundwork has been done where Sheppard and Weir's relationship is concerned and it would be easier if TPTB wanted to go in a romantic direction to build on something with a strong foundation than to start from scratch with something completely new and untried.

Awesome post SG. You are 'in' my head and it's transferring from your brain to your fingers much better than my own thoughts did. Love what you say about personal growth. When you are with that right 'one', they do help you to grow and develop as a person. Actually, I think many different friendships and even aquaintanceships can help you do that too but there is a bit more that you get from being with your pair mate in life.

We already see so much lovely evidence of that with Shep and Weir both imo. We see Shep, the happy-go-lucky guy with seemingly few responsibilities willing to take on the biggest challenge in his life and I think it's obvious that part of that willingness to go further and reach further than he ever has probably thought himself capable of is because he has Elizabeth's support behind him and he realizes it. At the same time, we see Elizabeth with all her knowledge and prestige accept the biggest challenge of her life but without Shep to lean on and trust in, she's lost at times. What they offer each other just as people is precious and rare. They help each other be better people just by propping up each other's weaknesses with their own strengths. Again, I hate to bring up the marriage analogy again, but that is exactly what goes on in the marriage dynamic. You find someone that completes you and pushes you to be the best and you find someone that is willing to sacrifice what's best for them for you and you'll one day look up and see that you have the best relationship that you'll ever have in your life and there's no letting go of it because there is no greater love than having that special person who will put you above them.

I think Sheppard and Weir would do a whole lot for the people under them because they're such good people as individuals. I think they'd give their lives and each other's if forced to, for the greater good of Atlantis because they realize the bigger picture is so much more important then either of them but I don't think there is anyone else in their lives that they would put ahead of the other in all the ways that truly matter. Elizabeth put her own cherished professional reputation on the line for the man. John has not only put his life on the line for Elizabeth but he's also stood up for her in front of his own military commander (one of my favorite John/Eliz scenes). They fight like two hissing cats between themselves at times but let an outsider attack either of them they turn into mad, rabid dogs toward the outsider. Imo, that's family and that's a pair bond.

[smallgirl]

Here's a question completely unrelated to anything we've discussed before (I think )
Has anyone noticed that most of us who post in the Shep/Weir thread also post in the Weir/Torri threads, but not often in the Shep/Joe threads?
Any theories as to why that may be? Is it that most of us tend to relate to Elizabeth/Torri more than Shep/Joe? You'd think with the majority of the posters here being girls, you'd get more response on Joe's threads!

I am a Sheppard/JF fan first and foremost. It was his character that I was most intrigued by when watching Rising. Secondly I would say I am a McKay/DH fan. In fact for the early part of the first season I enjoyed watching Sheppard/McKay/Beckett and even Zelenka before Weir. Nothing against Torri but the character didn't grab me straight away. Little by little that changed and now Weir is close on McKay's heels. It was Sheppard who drew me into the Shep/Weir thread even before I was really sure how I viewed their 'relationship'. I tend to only lurk and post in here and the Shep thunk and Shep discussion threads. Time constrains me from venturing elsewhere very much. However I find I post and lurk here more than the exclusively Sheppard/Joe related threads because the discussions here are the most interesting. I love the pretty pictures in the Shep thunk thread but I like reading people's thoughts more than anything and the Sheppard discussion thread is much slower and I am behind in terms of the episodes because I live in the U.K so I can't always contribute much in terms of where Sheppard's character is at this precise moment. Weir interests me me a lot because I am female and the way female characters are portrayed on TV matters a lot to me. This thread means I can kill two birds with one stone.

[grasshopper]

Even though I primarily lurk, I will add my 2 cents in on this topic.
I think if you are unhappy with the discussions on this board, then you should post more here. It has been my experience that the folks in this thread have tons to say about a myriad of topics! If you want to talk about Sheppard more, post something about him and stand back, because people will post replies.
If you want to talk about friendship, say so, just look at the past few pages! As you can tell from the last few pages, most everyone here is in favor of a deeper friendship. We really want to see that! Some disagree as to when the first kiss should happen, you don’t think it should? Post it!
The great thing about this board is that they are welcoming. Heck we have a MacKay/Weir shipper around here all the time! Of course I tend to be a topic killer, but I don’t post enough to take it personal!
I guess to boil it down; I think if you want to talk about something different, do it, we will follow!
I just think it is a bit harsh to say that the thread has lost focus.

[Chrysalis]

Joe is six foot, told my friend at a con himself. Torri I believe is 5'7" and that looks right. If you look at stills or watch the eps closely, there's about 5 inches between them. David Nykel is 5'8" and there's just a smidge of height difference between Torri and DN.

Joe's the tallest, isn't he?

[Easter Lily]

Joe's the tallest, isn't he?

No, Jason Mamoa is...

[Chrysalis]

No, Jason Mamoa is...

Of course! I forgot him! That guy is ginormous!

[Easter Lily]

See, I don't think all hope is lost for you Michael. Right there is a perfect indicator of that 'married' vibe that reaches up and grabs those of us that are fortunate enough to be happily in that state. There is just a special 6th sense between married people that exists far apart from anything sexual even between two people that exists no where else. With your spouse, you can look them in the eye and in that small window; that instantaneous 'moment', you *know* what they're thinking and feeling. You can anticipate a spouse because you have that almost instinctive understanding of them and who they are and you anticipate them because you understand how they'll react to something. There is a connection and an 'unspoken' communication that passes between the two of you. It's a special thing to have with someone and it is wonderful to see that pair 'bond' develop between Shep and Weir.

It comes with time, patience and good o'l fashion communicating...
They say that conflict can either strengthen your relationship or break it... and that is one of the great truths of life. Those are the kinds of relationships that interest me... people in conflict, engaging with one another and then building depth.
Whether or not Sheppard and Weir go to the "next level" is not too important but what they have is substance... something I didn't really have a feel for with S/J.

[astronomicalchick]

I have a question. Would it be a problem to start a NON SHIP Shep and Weir thread? And I ask this sincerely. I used to enjoy this thread but it's turned into a true shipper thread which heavy leanings towards actually being a Weir thread and Shep is just the guy you ship her with. I like the Shep and Weir dynamic as leaders and friends but can't chat about it here comfortably and, as a huge Shep fan, I find it hard to actually post about him here, or read the reaction/comments about him, because oft times I feel like this should be the Weir thread instead given how PRO Weir and kinda Anti-shep it actually gets. And before anyone jumps on me for my opinion, I'm not trying to start anything I just want a place I'm comfortable posting about Shep and Weir as equals and not as a romantic ship. IS there a thread for that already? Cause I'll happily back away and go there. I figured you guys would know.

Sorry Merlin to take so long to reply, but for a while I've been not reading this thread for almost the same reasons. I do ship them, but I'm a kind of snarky shipper, fluffy (while I like it in fanfic) or over analytical ship I can't really relate too - I like to have fun... So I've been finding the thread increasingly not to my taste for a while. (and that isn't a criticism of the posters here, if the majority want it to be something else, then I just voted with my feet).

However, the anti-Shep-ness, what is that about? I love Weir, I do, but I also love Sheppard, I like his dual nature, I like how he presents a superficial face, but underneath there is something more, and I like how perhaps Weir might get to it. But I also like how the others might get to that too.

Finally, and I must stress this is my opinion, what is with the married and sex talk? I find myself shaking my head a lot, there is no way, IMO, that this ship is anywhere near the level of being "married" or whatever, or will it ever be... however, I'll say it again, if that's what you want out of this thread, then I respect that and I'll leave again. But, FOR ME, reading about being an older gal and the "penis not being that important" is just TOO MUCH INFORMATION. Especially over breakfast. And that's saying a lot because I'm great at TMI.

Anyway, it's your thread, do with it what you will.

[Lexa Jayde]

i havent posted all day..... .... i have been running around like a madwoman, trying to get everything ready for tomoz...(Convention)... i finally got Torri picture for her to sign... i cant wait for tomoz... i have still to think of a shep/weir question, but alyssa, the invitations are done and laminated ready to give to Torri

[Bama]

Sorry Merlin to take so long to reply, but for a while I've been not reading this thread for almost the same reasons. I do ship them, but I'm a kind of snarky shipper, fluffy (while I like it in fanfic) or over analytical ship I can't really relate too - I like to have fun... So I've been finding the thread increasingly not to my taste for a while. (and that isn't a criticism of the posters here, if the majority want it to be something else, then I just voted with my feet).

However, the anti-Shep-ness, what is that about? I love Weir, I do, but I also love Sheppard, I like his dual nature, I like how he presents a superficial face, but underneath there is something more, and I like how perhaps Weir might get to it. But I also like how the others might get to that too.

Finally, and I must stress this is my opinion, what is with the married and sex talk? I find myself shaking my head a lot, there is no way, IMO, that this ship is anywhere near the level of being "married" or whatever, or will it ever be... however, I'll say it again, if that's what you want out of this thread, then I respect that and I'll leave again. But, FOR ME, reading about being an older gal and the "penis not being that important" is just TOO MUCH INFORMATION. Especially over breakfast. And that's saying a lot because I'm great at TMI.

Anyway, it's your thread, do with it what you will.

If what people are 'getting' from my posts are that Elizabeth and John are ready to be (really) married or even have sexual intercourse, then I must be doing one piss poor job of getting my points across.

Sorry about ruining your breakfast AC. Twasn't my intent. Sounds like you enjoyed the thread here until I came aboard and I truly do hate that considering how enjoyable I've found not only the thread but the people in the shep/weir fandom.

[FoolishPleasure]

Finally, and I must stress this is my opinion, what is with the married and sex talk? I find myself shaking my head a lot, there is no way, IMO, that this ship is anywhere near the level of being "married" or whatever, or will it ever be... however, I'll say it again, if that's what you want out of this thread, then I respect that and I'll leave again. But, FOR ME, reading about being an older gal and the "penis not being that important" is just TOO MUCH INFORMATION. Especially over breakfast. And that's saying a lot because I'm great at TMI.

I think the married talk probably started with zero.point.snark and their parodies where they say, "married and don't know it", or "so. .doing. . it". But its all in fun. I don't think anyone here thinks, or wants Shep and Weir to "get married and have babies". I read it in fan fic land and it is great, but the TV audience probably doesn't want it. My husband turns green with the talk of any "ship" on either show. He wants action, bombs, guns, space battles, blood and guts.

Most of the Shep/Weir talk has to do with them being a bit older (mid-30's) and more mature, so certainly their relationship discussions will be different than relationships involving, say Ronon/Teyla. Young people see relationships as "hot" while older folks see relationships as "communication". That's the difference between the two "ships" on SGA.

Some of the talk here has gone into relationship talk in general, which isn't a bad thing. A lot of shippers are teens or early 20's and really don't have the experiences of heavy relationships/marriages, so sharing our viewpoints helps them get a better idea on why we like this particular ship (and in turn, I like hearing the "young" point of view). Some of us know that a relationship between an older man and a hot young thing usually isn't going to work - we've seen it, and/or experienced it ourselves, so we discuss it in the context of Shep/Weir and/or Shep/Teyla. What works, what doesn't work. There really is no right or wrong.

The discussion does get "heavy" at times, but we also toss in funnies and cool pics to lighten up the place. Overall I think this thread has a nice balance.