Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[SallyLizzie]

I've been thinking about what you've said in this post and the one before... I guess I tend to talk about episodes in the episode thread which probably why I don't do it anywhere else. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it...

Actually, that's a very good excuse.

Seems to me that anytime there's a break in airing, we tend to get a little (lot) silly, and that's okay bc it makes a nice change from the discussions we DO have when SGA airs. Of course sometimes the disscussions go on for a while and other times they don't go on long at all. It all depends on the episode and the amount of Sparky interaction.

No interaction (or if Liz is only in 1 scene) = nothing to discuss.
Many of us have been here quite some time, and although new opinions are greatly wanted and appreciated, it can seen repeticious at times which is why, imo, we revert to specualtion - sometimes serious but often silly

So if anybody has something on their mind - SAY IT.
We're all intelligent people here who love something new to chew on and it's very unlikely that you're going to get chewed out for your view (the fact that i used 'chew' twice in one sentance may indicate that i'm ever-so-slightly hungry).

The thing i love most about this thread is the range of activity that occurs. Be it serious dissucssion or jovial banter. But the BEST thing is that we're mature enough to realise when we stray from the topic and that when that does happen, we agree with whoever brought it up and [i]not[i/] give them grief for being boring or a spoil-sport.
*pats everyone on the back*



I've surprised myself. When i started reading Sparky fic, i deeply prefered the romance/est relationship/smut. Basically anything except friendship!fic but recently i've read some very good friendship!fic that i've enjoyed more than what i usually read.

I like the bestfriend relationship they're heavily working towards. I agree with Bama that it sets a solid foundation for any future romantic ship. I mean this for alland any ship, not just Sparky.
Mum once told me that i'd be better dating someone i knew, that i was friends with, rather than a stranger. I never saw the allure of getting with a stranger (not to say that i haven't ) but i never fully understood the reasoning behind what she said until recently. It makes things much easier. That's not to say that if you're friends first then you're problem free, but you have a much clearer understanding and respect of each other so i think certain problems can be avoided/resolved with as little fuss as possible.
IMO this would be highly adventageous given the environmental circumstances that surrounds John and Elizabeth. (Ta-da! I related my ramblings to Sparky )

ETA:

Why can't people in a relationship be friends?

This is what i was trying to get at. I'm not as experienced as some of the 'older heads' around here but i honestly don't see the point in being in a relationship if you're not friends. You hear all the time that the sex is the first thing to go in a relationship, so if a relationship is to last then shouldn't it be rooted in a deep friendship so there's something worthwhile left over?

[FoolishPleasure]

Reading through the last few pages I've noticed a "friendship vs romance" vibe. I've gotta say, what the hell are you all talking about? Why can't people in a relationship be friends? Hell, some of the best real life relationships I've seen (with my admittedly limited life experience) have been between close friends. This is a thread to discuss the possible relationship between John and Liz, but at the same time it can be a friendship thread!!!

Rant over, sorry about that

Two people who are in love and who get married BETTER be best friends. As I always tell the young 'uns, all that physical stuff changes as one ages, so you better be with someone you can TALK to, or you won't have much.

[Major_Moomin]

Mum once told me that i'd be better dating someone i knew, that i was friends with, rather than a stranger. I never saw the allure of getting with a stranger (not to say that i haven't ) but i never fully understood the reasoning behind what she said until recently. It makes things much easier. That's not to say that if you're friends first then you're problem free, but you have a much clearer understanding and respect of each other so i think certain problems can be avoided/resolved with as little fuss as possible.

Couldn't have said it better myself!
However, I knew nothing about my partner when we started dating. We met on the climbing team on a Scouting International Camp.
I didn't know what he did for a living, didn't know his age (I knew roughly what it was) but I knew that I was safe with the situation.

It was literally 'love at first sight' for us...and that was nearly 3 years ago.

He is both my partner and my best friend.

'SO' cliche!

-Moo (Who's moping cuz Michael Shanks has cancelled his date with me at sg10 this weekend...*WAAA!!!* )

[Bama]

Two people who are in love and who get married BETTER be best friends. As I always tell the young 'uns, all that physical stuff changes as one ages, so you better be with someone you can TALK to, or you won't have much.

And that's all I'm tryin to say. Sure, Shep and Weir can remain 'just friends' on a more casual / professional basis but don't root for them to build their friendship to the absolute utmost where they're each other's foremost confidants and turn to each other first in all important matters and then just say well, maybe that's as far as it was ever meant to go between them and they can have another that they become involved with sexually at some point and still hang on to each other the same way they always have. That's just not realistic or even fair to them. Maybe it is my age, experience and marital status talking here but that is the lesson all three of them have taught me.

Something else that might be pertinent to point out here is that their 'reality' is different from any of ours due to the 'life' they find themselves living. Here on earth, we keep our professional lives and our personal ones seperate from the other. It is easy to here. There is time and opportunity to spend time with those you love apart from the work environment we find ourselves in. And although, if we work in a place long enough, those workmates become sort of our 'extended family', they are never our 'real family'. On Atlantis, it is different. Elizabeth and John as well as the others are living out their lives within in their workplace. Their work is around them at all times and blends with their 'personal'. They are being forced to live their 'lives' within their professional space and that means doing all the 'normal' personal things with the professional people they're involved with. If Shep or Weir sought to 'find a mate' outside their Atlantis bubble circle, really, how feasible at this point would it be to do so? That's just another one of those quirks of Atlantis that I love.

[Southern Red]

Two people who are in love and who get married BETTER be best friends. As I always tell the young 'uns, all that physical stuff changes as one ages, so you better be with someone you can TALK to, or you won't have much.

Amen to that FP. And Michael, you are mighty smart for one so young. As an older head, I understand the friendship angle very well. My husband is my best friend, but it didn't start out that way. That's OK, but it's OK too the other way around. Actually, that's the very thing some of us have been trying to get across, badly evidently, for months. In Sparky we see the friendship already in place, but without some sort of male/female attraction it will never develop into a romance. A lot of us here see the attraction developing. You just don't exchange looks like they do with just a friend. Now, yes, we know it's staged, but that only goes to show somebody, somewhere connected with this show knows what they are doing. (God, I hope so.) Or we are just making it all up. Either way, in the meantime we are having fun and getting to meet a terrific group of people from all over the world and throughout the age spectrum. Where else can you do that but online? Isn't it fun to piece together bits of information from all our sources? Pieces, I might add, that seem to be coming together more and more everyday to indicate Sparky.

[SGLAB]

Actually, that's a very good excuse.

Seems to me that anytime there's a break in airing, we tend to get a little (lot) silly, and that's okay bc it makes a nice change from the discussions we DO have when SGA airs. Of course sometimes the disscussions go on for a while and other times they don't go on long at all. It all depends on the episode and the amount of Sparky interaction.

No interaction (or if Liz is only in 1 scene) = nothing to discuss.
Many of us have been here quite some time, and although new opinions are greatly wanted and appreciated, it can seen repeticious at times which is why, imo, we revert to specualtion - sometimes serious but often silly

So if anybody has something on their mind - SAY IT.
We're all intelligent people here who love something new to chew on and it's very unlikely that you're going to get chewed out for your view (the fact that i used 'chew' twice in one sentance may indicate that i'm ever-so-slightly hungry).

The thing i love most about this thread is the range of activity that occurs. Be it serious dissucssion or jovial banter. But the BEST thing is that we're mature enough to realise when we stray from the topic and that when that does happen, we agree with whoever brought it up and [i]not[i/] give them grief for being boring or a spoil-sport.
*pats everyone on the back*

I find that this thread is really well balanced. There's the serious conversations and times that are just plain silly. I really like that.

I've surprised myself. When i started reading Sparky fic, i deeply prefered the romance/est relationship/smut. Basically anything except friendship!fic but recently i've read some very good friendship!fic that i've enjoyed more than what i usually read.

I like the bestfriend relationship they're heavily working towards. I agree with Bama that it sets a solid foundation for any future romantic ship. I mean this for alland any ship, not just Sparky.
Mum once told me that i'd be better dating someone i knew, that i was friends with, rather than a stranger. I never saw the allure of getting with a stranger (not to say that i haven't ) but i never fully understood the reasoning behind what she said until recently. It makes things much easier. That's not to say that if you're friends first then you're problem free, but you have a much clearer understanding and respect of each other so i think certain problems can be avoided/resolved with as little fuss as possible.
IMO this would be highly adventageous given the environmental circumstances that surrounds John and Elizabeth. (Ta-da! I related my ramblings to Sparky )

ETA:This is what i was trying to get at. I'm not as experienced as some of the 'older heads' around here but i honestly don't see the point in being in a relationship if you're not friends. You hear all the time that the sex is the first thing to go in a relationship, so if a relationship is to last then shouldn't it be rooted in a deep friendship so there's something worthwhile left over?

If the story is set in the present season or previous I prefer them to be portrayed as friends. If it's set at some undetermined time in the future I'm happy with the romantic angle.

And as for as smut I don't read them much if it's a relationship that I think has real potential as a serious one. Besides, I get plenty spark from sparky when they're just talking.

[Easter Lily]

Reading through the last few pages I've noticed a "friendship vs romance" vibe. I've gotta say, what the hell are you all talking about? Why can't people in a relationship be friends? Hell, some of the best real life relationships I've seen (with my admittedly limited life experience) have been between close friends. This is a thread to discuss the possible relationship between John and Liz, but at the same time it can be a friendship thread!!!

Rant over, sorry about that

I don't think anyone disagrees, Michael... I doubt anyone here thinks that they are mutually exclusive states... But I think what we're all saying is that is that friendship is a much better foundation for long-term romance.

As for this thread, I think the pendulum can swing in a number of directions...

[xfkirsten]

Something else that might be pertinent to point out here is that their 'reality' is different from any of ours due to the 'life' they find themselves living. Here on earth, we keep our professional lives and our personal ones seperate from the other. It is easy to here. There is time and opportunity to spend time with those you love apart from the work environment we find ourselves in. And although, if we work in a place long enough, those workmates become sort of our 'extended family', they are never our 'real family'. On Atlantis, it is different. Elizabeth and John as well as the others are living out their lives within in their workplace. Their work is around them at all times and blends with their 'personal'. They are being forced to live their 'lives' within their professional space and that means doing all the 'normal' personal things with the professional people they're involved with. If Shep or Weir sought to 'find a mate' outside their Atlantis bubble circle, really, how feasible at this point would it be to do so? That's just another one of those quirks of Atlantis that I love.

Yes! That is absolutely true. They have a limited group of people with whole they both live and work. There isn't a place to get away from that, or a group outside - unless you count the Athosians, but I got the impression that they pretty much stuck to themselves, and besides, I doubt they had the freedom to just go to the mainland.

[Bama]

Yes! That is absolutely true. They have a limited group of people with whole they both live and work. There isn't a place to get away from that, or a group outside - unless you count the Athosians, but I got the impression that they pretty much stuck to themselves, and besides, I doubt they had the freedom to just go to the mainland.

To carry this a step even further, research shows that where there is no family available many times, people will 'find' themselves one. People will blend into certain roles with each other. Take the slaves in pre-Civil War America as a good example. They were oft times removed from their original families to be placed with other random strangers on a foreign plantation. But over time, the slaves of a particular plantation would all began to think of themselves as a 'new' family and amongst that family and forced work environment, the individual would find himself a mate, and people to fill the brother and/or sister role and even a mother or father figure. Sure, the situation wasn't ideal for them to find friendship and love with others but the situation helped dicate the personal aspects of their life. That is what I see eventually coming to pass on Atlantis. Heck, imo, it's already coming to pass. I think these people are subconsicously placing each other in particular family 'roles' in their minds. And from my first viewings of Shep/Weir, I've said they subconsiously pegged each other as 'husband' and 'wife' and just sort of found themselves falling into those roles with each other. That's what it's always felt like to me between them. There is a comfort level there as well as an intimacy and just...'feel' that only exists in the realworld between a husband and wife. I do think you have to be married to know this 'vibe' I'm talking about. Southern 'gets' it I know because we've talked numerous times about it. I rewatch 'Conversion' and even other episodes and I just shake my head in amazement at the breadth and depth of that particular pair bond 'vibe'. No, there not consciously 'there' yet or even 'ready' to face up to something of that magnitude between them but that's the fun part. Situations will now work to ever so slowly open eyes to the full possibilities.

[Lexa Jayde]

OMG... i cant believe that Sapphire and i get to meet Torri tomorrow.... i am unbelievably excited.... *bounding off walls*

[xfkirsten]

To carry this a step even further, research shows that where there is no family available many times, people will 'find' themselves one. People will blend into certain roles with each other. Take the slaves in pre-Civil War America as a good example. They were oft times removed from their original families to be placed with other random strangers on a foreign plantation. But over time, the slaves of a particular plantation would all began to think of themselves as a 'new' family and amongst that family and forced work environment, the individual would find himself a mate, and people to fill the brother and/or sister role and even a mother or father figure. Sure, the situation wasn't ideal for them to find friendship and love with others but the situation helped dicate the personal aspects of their life. That is what I see eventually coming to pass on Atlantis. Heck, imo, it's already coming to pass. I think these people are subconsicously placing each other in particular family 'roles' in their minds. And from my first viewings of Shep/Weir, I've said they subconsiously pegged each other as 'husband' and 'wife' and just sort of found themselves falling into those roles with each other. That's what it's always felt like to me between them. There is a comfort level there as well as an intimacy and just...'feel' that only exists in the realworld between a husband and wife. I do think you have to be married to know this 'vibe' I'm talking about. Southern 'gets' it I know because we've talked numerous times about it. I rewatch 'Conversion' and even other episodes and I just shake my head in amazement at the breadth and depth of that particular pair bond 'vibe'. No, there not consciously 'there' yet or even 'ready' to face up to something of that magnitude between them but that's the fun part. Situations will now work to ever so slowly open eyes to the full possibilities.

Definitely a family thing going on Atlantis! I've felt a number of times that Weir had taken on a very "motherly" role with the other people on Atlantis. More than once, I've compared her to a protective mama bear... don't mess with her cubs, or she gets mad!

Spoiler:

Condemned is a big example here!

As far as living and working with a group of people, I definitely know how that can be! It's not nearly as extreme as the case in Atlantis, but along the same lines... I did the College Program at Walt Disney World. I worked with the same people day in and day out, then went home to the College Program apartments (like a dorm/apartment hybrid) and lived with those same people. Many of us didn't have cars, and so were stuck with each other all the time. None of us were able to go home for the holidays to be with our real families. We really became a big family, sharing our work, lives, friendships, etc. Three years later, we all still share strong bonds and a desire to go back there together.

Clearly, that's not as cut off from the rest of the world as they are on Atlantis, but it just goes to show that it can happen easily, even without the seclusion of Pegasus. Our Disney "family" developed in a matter of months. With a more extreme case like Atlantis, I'm sure those bonds could easily have developed by this point, and I think that's part of why I get a much stronger family vibe from them this season.

[Major_Moomin]

OMG... i cant believe that Sapphire and i get to meet Torri tomorrow.... i am unbelievably excited.... *bounding off walls*

Lol, Apparently Torri, Rachel and Don s Davis are going to the London Film and Comic con next July...I'm gonna go to that one!!

-Moo

[mentalmichael]

from my first viewings of Shep/Weir, I've said they subconsiously pegged each other as 'husband' and 'wife' and just sort of found themselves falling into those roles with each other. That's what it's always felt like to me between them. There is a comfort level there as well as an intimacy and just...'feel' that only exists in the realworld between a husband and wife. I do think you have to be married to know this 'vibe' I'm talking about.

Bugger. Guess I won't be understanding the "vibe" any time soon!!
Incidentally, great little Shep/Weir moment in "Duet" at the end with

Spoiler:

"I knew you'd say yes!"
"I haven't said yes"
"Well you were about to." (look)
"Yes" (grudgingly)
I just think this nails the "friendship" part of their relationship

[Bama]

Bugger. Guess I won't be understanding the "vibe" any time soon!!
Incidentally, great little Shep/Weir moment in "Duet" at the end with

Spoiler:

"I knew you'd say yes!"
"I haven't said yes"
"Well you were about to." (look)
"Yes" (grudgingly)
I just think this nails the "friendship" part of their relationship

See, I don't think all hope is lost for you Michael. Right there is a perfect indicator of that 'married' vibe that reaches up and grabs those of us that are fortunate enough to be happily in that state. There is just a special 6th sense between married people that exists far apart from anything sexual even between two people that exists no where else. With your spouse, you can look them in the eye and in that small window; that instantaneous 'moment', you *know* what they're thinking and feeling. You can anticipate a spouse because you have that almost instinctive understanding of them and who they are and you anticipate them because you understand how they'll react to something. There is a connection and an 'unspoken' communication that passes between the two of you. It's a special thing to have with someone and it is wonderful to see that pair 'bond' develop between Shep and Weir.

[majortrip]

Reading through the last few pages I've noticed a "friendship vs romance" vibe. I've gotta say, what the hell are you all talking about? Why can't people in a relationship be friends? Hell, some of the best real life relationships I've seen (with my admittedly limited life experience) have been between close friends. This is a thread to discuss the possible relationship between John and Liz, but at the same time it can be a friendship thread!!!

Rant over, sorry about that

With my own posts, I never meant to imply that I had a 'vs' attitude (in case you were referring to me LOL). I only meant that some of us enjoy John and Liz's relationship, but aren't quite to the point were we'd romantically ship for them. There are lots of people who do see this a romantic/possible relationship, and I think it's all good. I only de-lurked to say that I enjoy the convos that happen here encompassing ALL views, and didn't really know where to go to discuss these views with others.

I've said here before, but I see y'all having lots of fun with all perspectives of Liz/John and I would never want anyone to feel that someone out there thinks they should change their views just because there's supposed evidence of anther POV. That's what fandom is all about, it's fun, it can be serious, but mostly it's all about a bunch of people who enjoy the same show. I had no intention of changing the feel of this thread, only to say 'hey' and I like your conversations. I guess I was feeling a little lost I see things on screen and am not really sure where to discuss them. I do see discussions of all aspects of Liz/John here, and I appreciate the insights I find here and on other discussion threads. If I pop in here occasionally, it'll only be to see what's going on and enjoy all things John/Liz.