Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Athenaktt]

I like the alternative ship names

Sparky - Shep/Weir
Spanky - Ronon/Teyla
Snarky - McKay/Zelenka (I think)

Snarky? Really...hehe I can see that.

I liked the alternate ship names too.

Spanky is fitting for Ronon/Teyla especially after that

Spoiler:

playful fight between the two in "The Lost Boys" to bad Sheppard had to get in the way and get himself knocked over.

[ubiquitous]

-B
He may get his eyes opened yet. When/If Caldwell lets loose on him, I don't think he'll hold much he know and feels back. You can bet that Caldwell has learned exactly 'which' card to play in regard to Elizabeth...he knows her 'hotbutton' is labeled 'John Sheppard' and he is watching closely for a reason/opportunity to look at one or both of them and 'accuse' them of making a decision for personal feelings rather than professional reasons.

That, and he's probably also waiting for an opportunity to break the two apart. Or he could be trying to be underhanded and gather his 'proof' to report to the powers on Earth, without telling either of them.

[Bama]

That's an interesting concept. It would set John up for a whole lot of trouble if he was seen as backing the civilian/scientist interest too much. Obviously both he and Elizabeth have to walk the fine line between both worlds, but if TPTB in the military thought he was getting too close to the civilians through his obvious connection to Elizabeth, he could find himself with a problem..
And wouldn't Caldwell love that?

Well, that's the thing that Caldwell, for all his great and honorable qualities, doesn't 'get'. Atlantis isn't just another "military" job for the guy in charge. John has to make military decisions based on science and diplomacy many times, not just on military tactical advantage. John's job is very complex. He's not just running a military 'base' like on Earth. He's overseeing protection for research and diplomatic relations and sometimes, that means military has to take a 'backseat' to the science and diplomacy and let it do the driving at times. AND that means that sometimes, it makes more sense to let the scientist and civilians make the 'calls' on things. I think John is capable and has learned to trust the scientists and civilians he's befriended as equals but there are many military 'types' that would have a much harder time with that. Imo, there are very few military colonels that could put their hand in Elizabeth Weir's (and even Rodney McCray's) and hold on. John can and that is one thing that makes him so valuable to this new world.

[Bama]

I like the alternative ship names

Sparky - Shep/Weir
Spanky - Ronon/Teyla
Snarky - McKay/Zelenka (I think)

Love those!!! LOL! That's perfect for Ronon/Teyla!!!

[Bama]

Elizabeth: (thinking) 'Could this man be any sexier?'
John: (thinking) 'If her lips get any juicier, I'm going to have to take a bite'

Wow, it's a good thing you guys can't read their thoughts as well as I can.
These two make me blush sometimes.

[ubiquitous]

Well, that's the thing that Caldwell, for all his great and honorable qualities, doesn't 'get'. Atlantis isn't just another "military" job for the guy in charge. John has to make military decisions based on science and diplomacy many times, not just on military tactical advantage. John's job is very complex. He's not just running a military 'base' like on Earth. He's overseeing protection for research and diplomatic relations and sometimes, that means military has to take a 'backseat' to the science and diplomacy and let it do the driving at times. AND that means that sometimes, it makes more sense to let the scientist and civilians make the 'calls' on things. I think John is capable and has learned to trust the scientists and civilians he's befriended as equals but there are many military 'types' that would have a much harder time with that. Imo, there are very few military colonels that could put their hand in Elizabeth Weir's (and even Rodney McCray's) and hold on. John can and that is one thing that makes him so valuable to this new world.

I think Calwell's learning, just not quite fast enough. And he doesn't particularly care. To him, the civilians are a means to an end. They find technology for the military. The military keeps technology and keeps civilians safe. Thats where the boundaries lie. The way that Weir/Shep run things is something that Caldwell needs to get a grasp on, and he's being slow to do it. Everett caught on faster. Much faster.

[Melyanna]

The name Sparky came from one of the Yahoo groups, actually. I think it might have been Qwirky who started it – I know it wasn't Little Red or Ms. Pooh, though. Whoever it was really hated the sound of "Shweir" and declared that we would call it Sparky. Works for me.

As for Caldwell and how he interacts with the civilians... My dad was a civilian contractor for a DoD project a few years back. He had a lot more trouble with the generals he was reporting to than with the civilians he worked with, and a lot of it was just that he hadn't come up through the ranks. In the military, you go through a system to get where you're going, and while a lot of it is merit-based, you still have to go through certain steps that aren't necessarily. For example, to get to the next rank you have to stay in your current one for a certain amount of time. The civilian world isn't necessarily like that.

If you watch the Weir episodes of SG-1, there's a lot of animosity toward Weir, especially from Carter. And I think a lot of it has to do with one being military and the other civilian. Elizabeth is probably four or five years younger than Sam, but she got put in charge of the SGC. To a military person, that's just totally wrong. Elizabeth hadn't gone through the right training and right career path to get there; in the eyes of the military, she hadn't earned that. When you get right down to it, it takes an unconventional military mind to serve under a civilian like this. And that's why John and Elizabeth have, for the most part, worked so well together. They're both far enough off the beaten path to make things work.

[Chrysalis]

If you watch the Weir episodes of SG-1, there's a lot of animosity toward Weir, especially from Carter. And I think a lot of it has to do with one being military and the other civilian. Elizabeth is probably four or five years younger than Sam, but she got put in charge of the SGC. To a military person, that's just totally wrong. Elizabeth hadn't gone through the right training and right career path to get there; in the eyes of the military, she hadn't earned that. When you get right down to it, it takes an unconventional military mind to serve under a civilian like this. And that's why John and Elizabeth have, for the most part, worked so well together. They're both far enough off the beaten path to make things work.

interesting point on Sam and Elizabeth. I may have to go back and watch that again. I like your view of the John/Elizabeth thing, too.

[the_cadpig]

Originally posted by Melyanna
If you watch the Weir episodes of SG-1, there's a lot of animosity toward Weir, especially from Carter.

Wow. It didn't come across that way to me at all. Sam had no dialogue at all with Weir in Lost City. And in New Order it just seemed to me that Sam was very determined to help Jack and wasn't above using a little bribery to get Elizabeth to see things her way. In the one major conversation that they had, it really looked to me like two women who understood each other. Not particularly acrimonious at all.

Not that this observation makes your other points about Civilians and Military less valid. I just think the Carter/Weir example is weak in this case.

When you get right down to it, it takes an unconventional military mind to serve under a civilian like this.

Or it takes an unconventional civilian leader to command the respect of the military. I think Elizabeth's skills as a negotiator make her the perfect choice for a joint military/civilian operation. She's trained to see both sides and soothe ruffled feathers. But she's also tough enough to put her foot down when necessary.

~cp

[Bama]

Wow. It didn't come across that way to me at all. Sam had no dialogue at all with Weir in Lost City. And in New Order it just seemed to me that Sam was very determined to help Jack and wasn't above using a little bribery to get Elizabeth to see things her way. In the one major conversation that they had, it really looked to me like two women who understood each other. Not particularly acrimonious at all.

Not that this observation makes your other points about Civilians and Military less valid. I just think the Carter/Weir example is weak in this case.



Or it takes an unconventional civilian leader to command the respect of the military. I think Elizabeth's skills as a negotiator make her the perfect choice for a joint military/civilian operation. She's trained to see both sides and soothe ruffled feathers. But she's also tough enough to put her foot down when necessary.

~cp

I can't help but watch that New Order scene between the two ladies and think that Sam's worry for Jack was a foreshadowing of Elizabeth's worry for John. Imo, that scene reeks of undertones between the two women. I think there's an element of understanding underneath the conflict and impatience. It's just something about the way Elizabeth watches Samantha in the scene that tells me that she 'gets' that it's a little more than professional concern for her missing collegue driving Sam's harrassment of her on the issue.

I really like the scene and I'm looking forward to seeing Sam interact with Elizabeth (and Rodney) again in the cross-over ep.

[Royal_Nonesuch]

When you get right down to it, it takes an unconventional military mind to serve under a civilian like this. And that's why John and Elizabeth have, for the most part, worked so well together. They're both far enough off the beaten path to make things work.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to see the pre-Atlantis Elizabeth eps yet--I'll have to rent those. However, I do agree with the above point. Elizabeth is a civillian, but that doesn't bother John because he was never by the book. I think we have seen his problems with authority in general effect his interactions with Elizabeth, but I do not sense him having any underlying problem with civillian authoirty (which may have rubbed Sam the wrong way).

There was a scene in "Rising" that seemed to indicate Shep preferred, civillian leadership, or perhaps specifically, Elizabeth's leadership (because she trusted him and ignored the 'black mark') to Sumner's military outlook. Right before the team left for Atlantis, Sumner made a comment to Sheppard about 'following orders' and Shep responded with something like 'Dr. Weir's orders right?' (sorry don't have the transcript). It is at least clear that Shep has no difficulty with Weir's leadership and that is due, in some part as Mel pointed out, to his unconventional background.

I thought Shep might become more "by the book" after Sumner died, but he hasn't really seemed too. The Caldwell wrench might throw things off even further. I'm also still waiting to see if Kavanagh's LFP report plays into this at all.

Royal

[Vixen]

OMG! Vix, you get better with each one of these you do! What a beautiful song and I love those images you chose! Of course, the John and Eliz. images are my faves but it's so totally obvious imo that Ronon and Teyla have it going on. Wow, if this vid isn't an ANVIL, I dunno what is.

I love those exterior shots of Atlantis too...sigh...I *heart* vids.

Thank you.

[parsifal]

I really like the scene and I'm looking forward to seeing Sam interact with Elizabeth (and Rodney) again in the cross-over ep.

S2

Spoiler:

Sorry, but we're not likely to get any Sam-Elizabeth interaction. Amanda is appearing as a hallucination of McKay so it's debatable how 'in character' as Sam she'll even be.

[Bama]

S2

Spoiler:

Sorry, but we're not likely to get any Sam-Elizabeth interaction. Amanda is appearing as a hallucination of McKay so it's debatable how 'in character' as Sam she'll even be.

Well, that's crap. If they're gonna bother doing a 'crossover' ep, they ought to DO a cross-over ep. I'm not big on cameos. peh.

[Rubicon]

Well, that's crap. If they're gonna bother doing a 'crossover' ep, they ought to DO a cross-over ep. I'm not big on cameos. peh.

Not big on the Sam-love here so-- Yay!

Actually I hope she's totally OOC!!!