Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

OT here: for you people that like to edit wiki's im trying to do an episode wiki and im trying to use the template they have but everytime i try to do and i put in the necessary information it doesn't show up on the actual page. HELP!

[drewandian]

*sniff* I'm gone for a couple days and come back to SR's sad fic....that'll teach me to let RL get so crazy.....

beautifully written, SR

[Eri13]

Me too. That's what we were essentially saying about Vegas!John and how he's just one step beyond S5 John. We don't know what vice our John has like Vegas!John's gambling. But we did see the tiny bit in Midway when he was all into the betting on the fight. That may have been an unintentional bit of continuity. Or he may have some other repressed vice that wasn't shown. We know he has a dark side, that's for sure.

OT:

Spoiler:

I just found out that a good friend of mine has breast cancer. It has to happen to all of us sooner or later I guess but was quite a shock. If you're so inclined, please say a prayer or think a good thought for her. Her name is Gail and she's a beautiful person inside and out.

Sorry, no fix for it. He just has to suffer through it. We can't have him forgetting Lizzie. But really, how do we think John copes with losing her?

We know in S4 he was distracted with the Teyla/missing Athosians situation which gave him something to focus on and gave him a purpose. Then with all the going forward in time thing it continued on into S5 but as everybody has noted once that situation was solved he just seemed to sink into, if not a depression, just more of a funk. He seemed withdrawn to a lot of people and was not quite himself. Gone was the happy go lucky joking around John of S1-2 and he just seemed to be going through the motions.

Plus she came back first as a clone and then as a disembodied consciousness. I'm sure he expects something else equally horrendous to happen any minute. Or maybe he knows he's lost her forever and needs to numb himself. It's off world alien women or drugs. Each is equally dangerous. Now that sounds like another plot bunny for someone who's a better writer than I. *poke poke*

First off...

SR

Spoiler:

Many prayers to your friend and continuous ones for her throughout her treatment.

Secondly, great fic. I enjoyed it and understand that POV totally.

Third, interesting discussion! I might also add that poor John never gets a grieving period. He's sorta stuck in limbo through TMC; her appearing as a clone is a shock to him, but then the clone tells him that Elizabeth's officially 'dead' and so, in a sense, he is given some closure. The back half of S4 shows various stages of grieving, but of trying to move beyond it--of being able to mention her name without a huge woobie face, etc.

And then comes GITM, and the knowledge that, no, actually she's not dead. I think at that point any hope of closure goes through the space gate, because technically she's not 'dead'; she's hanging out in space. What does that qualify as? How do you finish grieving for something that's not technically dead? And truthfully, after the 3rd 'incarnation' of Elizabeth, there's no telling how many others might be out there or who's telling the truth.

Coupled with all the other crap he had to put up with AND the darker paint color, no wonder the poor boy was in a funk through the end of the show.

Finally--Scary Kitty and pkprd, are y'all gonna be able to get along? I honestly don't know which of you to feel sorrier for.

[Scary Kitty]

Me too. That's what we were essentially saying about Vegas!John and how he's just one step beyond S5 John. We don't know what vice our John has like Vegas!John's gambling. But we did see the tiny bit in Midway when he was all into the betting on the fight. That may have been an unintentional bit of continuity. Or he may have some other repressed vice that wasn't shown. We know he has a dark side, that's for sure.

I can't really see canon!John descending into the traditional vices (like gambling) the way Vegas!John did, mainly because of the fact that he's been on the straight and narrow for so long, fighting the good fight and all that, whereas Vegas!John had been cut off from discipline and self-restraint for a lot longer, it seemed. I think that canon!John's descent might come in the form of becoming more hardcore in his duties, more driven in his intensity to take every mission so personally to the point that he'll either snap and go raging berserker (think "The Storm," only on an overdose of crack) or he'll go on one too many suicide missions and his luck will run out. Or maybe both.

OT:

Spoiler:

I just found out that a good friend of mine has breast cancer. It has to happen to all of us sooner or later I guess but was quite a shock. If you're so inclined, please say a prayer or think a good thought for her. Her name is Gail and she's a beautiful person inside and out.

*huggles*

Spoiler:

Your friend will definitely be in my thoughts.

Third, interesting discussion! I might also add that poor John never gets a grieving period. He's sorta stuck in limbo through TMC; her appearing as a clone is a shock to him, but then the clone tells him that Elizabeth's officially 'dead' and so, in a sense, he is given some closure. The back half of S4 shows various stages of grieving, but of trying to move beyond it--of being able to mention her name without a huge woobie face, etc.

And then comes GITM, and the knowledge that, no, actually she's not dead. I think at that point any hope of closure goes through the space gate, because technically she's not 'dead'; she's hanging out in space. What does that qualify as? How do you finish grieving for something that's not technically dead? And truthfully, after the 3rd 'incarnation' of Elizabeth, there's no telling how many others might be out there or who's telling the truth.

Coupled with all the other crap he had to put up with AND the darker paint color, no wonder the poor boy was in a funk through the end of the show.

Excellent points! John (and the rest of Atlantis) has really been taken as much for a yo-yo ride as we have with the whole "is she dead, or isn't she?" aspect of the Weir-Replicator storyline. Given the closeness that we've all seen between John and Elizabeth before she was taken from them, that back-and-forth has got to be taking a major toll on him.

Finally--Scary Kitty and pkprd, are y'all gonna be able to get along? I honestly don't know which of you to feel sorrier for.

Huh? *wanders off to check ESPN.com, then zooms back*

OMFG! Lane Kiffin's coming back to USC?! With Ed Orgeron in tow, and possibly even Norm Chow?! Hmm, this could be very, very interesting...

[Tanie]

Hey everyone!! I know I've been MIA for a while, but life's a b****h. Loving all your wonderful Sparky pics and fics!!! I'll hopefully be able to spend some quality time with you all come the weekend.

[Southern Red]

*sniff* I'm gone for a couple days and come back to SR's sad fic....that'll teach me to let RL get so crazy.....

beautifully written, SR

Thanks. You know I am the angst addict.

First off...

SR

Spoiler:

Many prayers to your friend and continuous ones for her throughout her treatment.

Secondly, great fic. I enjoyed it and understand that POV totally.

Third, interesting discussion! I might also add that poor John never gets a grieving period. He's sorta stuck in limbo through TMC; her appearing as a clone is a shock to him, but then the clone tells him that Elizabeth's officially 'dead' and so, in a sense, he is given some closure. The back half of S4 shows various stages of grieving, but of trying to move beyond it--of being able to mention her name without a huge woobie face, etc.

And then comes GITM, and the knowledge that, no, actually she's not dead. I think at that point any hope of closure goes through the space gate, because technically she's not 'dead'; she's hanging out in space. What does that qualify as? How do you finish grieving for something that's not technically dead? And truthfully, after the 3rd 'incarnation' of Elizabeth, there's no telling how many others might be out there or who's telling the truth.

Coupled with all the other crap he had to put up with AND the darker paint color, no wonder the poor boy was in a funk through the end of the show.

Finally--Scary Kitty and pkprd, are y'all gonna be able to get along? I honestly don't know which of you to feel sorrier for.

That's essentially what I was thinking when I wrote "Lonely Nights". He's a very busy man all day what with saving the universe repeatedly and all. But sooner or later he has to go to his room and then what? We've already seen in Epiphany, Doppelganger and others that he can be prone to depression.

I can't really see canon!John descending into the traditional vices (like gambling) the way Vegas!John did, mainly because of the fact that he's been on the straight and narrow for so long, fighting the good fight and all that, whereas Vegas!John had been cut off from discipline and self-restraint for a lot longer, it seemed. I think that canon!John's descent might come in the form of becoming more hardcore in his duties, more driven in his intensity to take every mission so personally to the point that he'll either snap and go raging berserker (think "The Storm," only on an overdose of crack) or he'll go on one too many suicide missions and his luck will run out. Or maybe both.



*huggles*

Spoiler:

Your friend will definitely be in my thoughts.

Excellent points! John (and the rest of Atlantis) has really been taken as much for a yo-yo ride as we have with the whole "is she dead, or isn't she?" aspect of the Weir-Replicator storyline. Given the closeness that we've all seen between John and Elizabeth before she was taken from them, that back-and-forth has got to be taking a major toll on him.



Huh? *wanders off to check ESPN.com, then zooms back*

OMFG! Lane Kiffin's coming back to USC?! With Ed Orgeron in tow, and possibly even Norm Chow?! Hmm, this could be very, very interesting...

I can see John becoming a micro-manager and driving Lorne and the Marines crazy. He goes beyond the usual measures to keep everybody safe, increases the training until they feel like they're in the Roman Legion, and questioning every risky decision everyone makes on missions. Ronon and Teyla are exasperated with him. Rodney tries to talk to him but he snaps at all of them. Finally they all go to Woolsey and demand that he do something. Then what happens?

OT:

Spoiler:

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts about my friend. I'll keep you posted.

And Lane Kiffin is going to USC. Oh merciful heavens, why didn't someone tell me? *runs to ESPN.com*

[Eri13]

Thanks. You know I am the angst addict.

That's essentially what I was thinking when I wrote "Lonely Nights". He's a very busy man all day what with saving the universe repeatedly and all. But sooner or later he has to go to his room and then what? We've already seen in Epiphany, Doppelganger and others that he can be prone to depression.

I can see John becoming a micro-manager and driving Lorne and the Marines crazy. He goes beyond the usual measures to keep everybody safe, increases the training until they feel like they're in the Roman Legion, and questioning every risky decision everyone makes on missions. Ronon and Teyla are exasperated with him. Rodney tries to talk to him but he snaps at all of them. Finally they all go to Woolsey and demand that he do something. Then what happens?

OT:

Spoiler:

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts about my friend. I'll keep you posted.

And Lane Kiffin is going to USC. Oh merciful heavens, why didn't someone tell me? *runs to ESPN.com*

On the LK thing, it broke last night. My UT friends are royally POed at the moment. *snickers*

I really need to watch Season 5. I feel like a chunk of evidence is missing from any discussions I have.

[nephtys59]

I once wrote a fanfic for a different pairing (Archer/T'Pol of Star Trek Ent.), but it's difficult for me because english is not my mother-tongue language and I make mistakes. I'd like to write fics for John&Elizabeth as well, I imagine one fic set after S5, with Todd making a special gift to John (the *gift* would be E.) and a wraith baby queen running around the city
What do you think about it? Would you forgive a bad english writer?

[drewandian]

Thanks. You know I am the angst addict.



That's essentially what I was thinking when I wrote "Lonely Nights". He's a very busy man all day what with saving the universe repeatedly and all. But sooner or later he has to go to his room and then what? We've already seen in Epiphany, Doppelganger and others that he can be prone to depression.



I can see John becoming a micro-manager and driving Lorne and the Marines crazy. He goes beyond the usual measures to keep everybody safe, increases the training until they feel like they're in the Roman Legion, and questioning every risky decision everyone makes on missions. Ronon and Teyla are exasperated with him. Rodney tries to talk to him but he snaps at all of them. Finally they all go to Woolsey and demand that he do something. Then what happens?

OT:

Spoiler:

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts about my friend. I'll keep you posted.

And Lane Kiffin is going to USC. Oh merciful heavens, why didn't someone tell me? *runs to ESPN.com*

you're welcome...and your addiction feeds mine, so I'm really not complaining...

[pkprd869]

*BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP* Lane Kiffin that *BEEP*in *BEEP*ity *BEEP*. Anyways, Happy belated birthday to Anuna and gateraid. Maybe I can make a present for you in the next few days.

I think Shep would proabably indulge in some vices. Straight and narrow fellas usually fall the hardest. A little drink here, a cig there, and then they're full blown winos hanging out at the OTB smoking 8 packs a day. I doubt SHep would go that far, but I think his friends would stop him if he did. SR John would probably be even more standoffish with the shrink Woolsey orders him to see.

[Southern Red]

*BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP* Lane Kiffin that *BEEP*in *BEEP*ity *BEEP*. Anyways, Happy belated birthday to Anuna and gateraid. Maybe I can make a present for you in the next few days.

I think Shep would proabably indulge in some vices. Straight and narrow fellas usually fall the hardest. A little drink here, a cig there, and then they're full blown winos hanging out at the OTB smoking 8 packs a day. I doubt SHep would go that far, but I think his friends would stop him if he did. SR John would probably be even more standoffish with the shrink Woolsey orders him to see.

Oh dear. Oh dear. I was just emailing my son about Kiffin and he asked what did my online friends think. Oh dear. It should get interesting when SK wakes up. But a bit of OT good news. They had massive lay offs at my son's company this week and he survived. WOOT!

[Eri13]

*BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP* Lane Kiffin that *BEEP*in *BEEP*ity *BEEP*. Anyways, Happy belated birthday to Anuna and gateraid. Maybe I can make a present for you in the next few days.

I think Shep would proabably indulge in some vices. Straight and narrow fellas usually fall the hardest. A little drink here, a cig there, and then they're full blown winos hanging out at the OTB smoking 8 packs a day. I doubt SHep would go that far, but I think his friends would stop him if he did. SR John would probably be even more standoffish with the shrink Woolsey orders him to see.

Yep, that's about the reaction of my other UT friends.

The only thing I'd say about the vices argument is that as a military guy (and a commander), Shep would hold himself to a slightly stricter standard than most. On top of that, I could also see him thinking of what Elizabeth would think of him if he let himself slip into vices of that nature--of how disappointed she'd be in him, because she relied on him to treat Atlantis and its people as she did, that the expedition comes first and personal issues come second. I don't think he'd ever be able to live with himself if he felt he'd purposely failed her, even if the cause was rooted in losing her.

So for his 'vice' I could see him as SR described him in her fic, which is an innocuous way of letting go for a while. We have proof of that with some of the flirting moments we get with characters like Larrin. I can also see him as a guy who throws himself with abandon into doing his job. It's been mentioned before that he no longer goofs around with paperwork and such like he did when Elizabeth was 'the boss'. Plus, we see him do absolutely crazy things to protect his friends, people, and Atlantis (scaling Atlantis Tower, fighting with Michael on the top of it, jumping into Rodney's head, etc).

What distinguishes Vegas!John from our John is that our John has not given into the vices Vegas!John did, because he has a sense of purpose that Vegas!John did not. Both are suffering the effects of loss, and if our John had not had Atlantis to worry about, I could see him becoming Vegas!John. But he does have that responsibility, and purpose, and I think a conscience in what Elizabeth would have wanted of him. He still owes her his life, after all. In a way I think he won't let that gift she gave him--a second chance--go to waste easily. It's gotta be worth something.

Oh dear. Oh dear. I was just emailing my son about Kiffin and he asked what did my online friends think. Oh dear. It should get interesting when SK wakes up. But a bit of OT good news. They had massive lay offs at my son's company this week and he survived. WOOT!

My ears are burning right now with the obscenities flying around the Kiffin news, since our production team just got into the office. I'm going to snoop and see what else they're saying. *cheeky*

[pkprd869]

Yep, that's about the reaction of my other UT friends.

The only thing I'd say about the vices argument is that as a military guy (and a commander), Shep would hold himself to a slightly stricter standard than most. On top of that, I could also see him thinking of what Elizabeth would think of him if he let himself slip into vices of that nature--of how disappointed she'd be in him, because she relied on him to treat Atlantis and its people as she did, that the expedition comes first and personal issues come second. I don't think he'd ever be able to live with himself if he felt he'd purposely failed her, even if the cause was rooted in losing her.

So for his 'vice' I could see him as SR described him in her fic, which is an innocuous way of letting go for a while. We have proof of that with some of the flirting moments we get with characters like Larrin. I can also see him as a guy who throws himself with abandon into doing his job. It's been mentioned before that he no longer goofs around with paperwork and such like he did when Elizabeth was 'the boss'. Plus, we see him do absolutely crazy things to protect his friends, people, and Atlantis (scaling Atlantis Tower, fighting with Michael on the top of it, jumping into Rodney's head, etc).

What distinguishes Vegas!John from our John is that our John has not given into the vices Vegas!John did, because he has a sense of purpose that Vegas!John did not. Both are suffering the effects of loss, and if our John had not had Atlantis to worry about, I could see him becoming Vegas!John. But he does have that responsibility, and purpose, and I think a conscience in what Elizabeth would have wanted of him. He still owes her his life, after all. In a way I think he won't let that gift she gave him--a second chance--go to waste easily. It's gotta be worth something.



My ears are burning right now with the obscenities flying around the Kiffin news, since our production team just got into the office. I'm going to snoop and see what else they're saying. *cheeky*

I see where you're coming from. I actually agree he would probably keep it together. Maybe he might cry in the dark listening to Johnny Cash or... Reba McEntire or the love theme from "On Her Majesty's Secret Service." (Satchmo rules, but I digress.) If, a big IF, Shep hit rock bottom, it'd be all out. But for the reasons you mention, I doubt it would happen.

[Probie]

SR: Excellent fic. It's so sad but I love ansgt story.

Lane Kiffin? It's about football no?

nephty: I would like to see your stories. I can't help you or correct your english because I'm a stranger here.lol

[nephtys59]

Thanks Probie

As to favourite fics, has anyone here read Keladry's fics on Command Dynamics?
Even if they're both smut, my favourites are "The Silent Truth" and "One Way Street"!