Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[drewandian]

nephtys59 When news first came out about Miss Tori becoming a recurring star, in S4 I thought, "Alright, Ms. Tapping has a year left of her contract and they want to use her for the show. That's cool. Maybe they'll do something cool like, 'Carter uses her vast knowledge of replicators to develop new weapons and lead a large offensive against them.' Maybe find Lizzie along the way and she helps them by FUBAR-ing the replicator network. Then in S5 her character has deal with being part human part replicator. The IOA wants her iced, the SGC wants to use her to build weapons, and the team just wants their friend back. Maybe breakout Lizzie's diplomatic skills and lead a diplomatic team (I believe the SGC had those) and Shep's team can escort them in few eps, big explosions, sparky eyesex, and general good times had by all."

I don't know if a woman writing would've made a huge difference. In broad generalities, yes a woman could have done a better job with a relationship. I think timing of confirming our ship would have to come at the end of the show. I would imagine the CINC(Commander in Chief)-Homeworld Security (I believe it's O'Neill) is still responsible for Atlantis. So Lizzie, despite being a civilian, would still be under the UCMJ. I believe the UCMJ applies fraternization to officer/enlisted and officer/officer within the immediate chain of command. I think one or two degrees of separation are all that are required. At least that's how I see it. I could be wrong.

From the little tid-bits that are out there, I think Joe didn't like the way some characters (and by extension the actors) were being treated. I can't quote the source, (maybe someone can help me) but he said if he would've found out about Miss Tori getting the can, he would've fought it. It seems like the TPTB played it close to the vest so they wouldn't have to deal with Joe.

Did you ever make your idea a fic? Because it would be an awesome one...I like the idea of Sam and Elizabeth kicking serious replicator @$$...hmmm....catches a glimpse of little plot bunnies hopping around the room....

I can't remember exactly how the frat regs go...but I'm not sure that Elizabeth would be held accountable to them. I think any issue would be more of an office ethics type thing than anything else (I could be wrong though)

[nephtys59]

nephtys59 When news first came out about Miss Tori becoming a recurring star, in S4 I thought, "Alright, Ms. Tapping has a year left of her contract and they want to use her for the show. That's cool. Maybe they'll do something cool [...]"

Problem is, they didn't.
In fact, Carter's character became sort of a "ghost" after all the great things she had done in SG1 and this was a disservice to her, IMHO.
They tried to put a *patch* replacing her (busy for SG1 movies) with Woolsey and they didn't do anything but make the situation worst. Series canceled, end of the story.

I hate when they make decisions that ruin the whole story and get the series canceled. I'm fine with new characters, but you cannot remove a strong character like Dr. Weir and expect you will not pay the price.

I'm OK with what happened in Adrift and Lifeline (I like angst), I'm OK with a change of Atlantis leader, but the TPTB/Writers lost a big chance here. Elizabeth could be brought back in any possible way (it's SciFi and deaths are not final, look what they did with Carson).
Elizabeth part-replicator had a lot of potential. First, she could save the day (in place of Sheppard or McKay, for a change). And imagine the tension because many don't trust her and she has to gain their trust back. Imagine her battles to be a new Elizabeth, a stronger one. I can even imagine her learning to be a better fighter with bantos and P90s, go in offworld missions, not necessarily with Sheppard all the time, but proving to everybody she's worth a try.
Conflicts with Carter could give us great scenes on video, Elizabeth was a leader before but situation's changed and she must follow orders, and some of them she doesn't like.

I don't know if a woman writing would've made a huge difference. In broad generalities, yes a woman could have done a better job with a relationship.

Well, I think a woman could have a NEW and DIFFERENT perspective, not only about relationships. Problem is, a lot of people thinks SciFi is a *men's* business. Totally wrong. I'm a woman and I've been a huge SciFi fan since a was a baby, I can't keep the count of how many SciFi books and movies and series I've watched in the last 40 years, but I believe women writers can bring something really NEW to this vast world.

I think timing of confirming our ship would have to come at the end of the show.

I agree. I define myself a *fini-shipper*, someone who likes to see her favourite pairing confirmed only at the end of the show. I was a Sheppard/Weir shipper since the first episode "Rising" but, honestly, I didn't want them to be together immediately. I wanted them to get to know better, have conflicts, find a way to pass their differences, start to appreciate one another, then care for each other, then finally LOVE each other, but only in the last episodes of the series. Pity once again

[pkprd869]

Problem is, they didn't.
In fact, Carter's character became sort of a "ghost" after all the great things she had done in SG1 and this was a disservice to her, IMHO.
They tried to put a *patch* replacing her (busy for SG1 movies) with Woolsey and they didn't do anything but make the situation worst. Series canceled, end of the story.

I hate when they make decisions that ruin the whole story and get the series canceled. I'm fine with new characters, but you cannot remove a strong character like Dr. Weir and expect you will not pay the price.

I'm OK with what happened in Adrift and Lifeline (I like angst), I'm OK with a change of Atlantis leader, but the TPTB/Writers lost a big chance here. Elizabeth could be brought back in any possible way (it's SciFi and deaths are not final, look what they did with Carson).
Elizabeth part-replicator had a lot of potential. First, she could save the day (in place of Sheppard or McKay, for a change). And imagine the tension because many don't trust her and she has to gain their trust back. Imagine her battles to be a new Elizabeth, a stronger one. I can even imagine her learning to be a better fighter with bantos and P90s, go in offworld missions, not necessarily with Sheppard all the time, but proving to everybody she's worth a try.
Conflicts with Carter could give us great scenes on video, Elizabeth was a leader before but situation's changed and she must follow orders, and some of them she doesn't like.

Well, I think a woman could have a NEW and DIFFERENT perspective, not only about relationships. Problem is, a lot of people thinks SciFi is a *men's* business. Totally wrong. I'm a woman and I've been a huge SciFi fan since a was a baby, I can't keep the count of how many SciFi books and movies and series I've watched in the last 40 years, but I believe women writers can bring something really NEW to this vast world.

I agree. I define myself a *fini-shipper*, someone who likes to see her favourite pairing confirmed only at the end of the show. I was a Sheppard/Weir shipper since the first episode "Rising" but, honestly, I didn't want them to be together immediately. I wanted them to get to know better, have conflicts, find a way to pass their differences, start to appreciate one another, then care for each other, then finally LOVE each other, but only in the last episodes of the series. Pity once again

I agree, Carter got reduced to nothing. I think she was only contracted for 14 eps, but the ones she was in could've given her more to do. I think bringing back the "New Order" Carter/Lizzie tension could've been really good. Love the ideas about Lizzie having to win everyone's trust back.

I didn't mean to sound like a misogynist. I know plenty of gals who like SciFi. I think any writer who did more than turn Atlantis into "nerd boy fantasy land" would've been great. For me personally, I always thought of SG (both shows) as action and humor mainly. I like character development, but making it the sole focus would turn it into a BSG like soap opera. I think SG-1 S1-6 had a great balance of action, humor, and character development. I agree a woman could do great with action, humor, and character development. Even us guys can handle only so much, "Guy blows up bad guys, guy get's the girl, guy rides off into sunset."

[nephtys59]

I didn't mean to sound like a misogynist.

Oh no, you didn't
I was referring to TPTB when I talked about "men's business".
I'm a woman and I look SciFi mainly because I like stars, galaxies, aliens, battles, spaceships, exploration, etc.
Then, if I also get humour, character development, good and credible friend or love relationships, I'm happy but that's not my main interest.
In fact I'm the kind who dislikes soap operas, reality shows, etc. etc.

I like character development, but making it the sole focus would turn it into a BSG like soap opera.

BSG had its good moments, but isn't on my top list
I'm a Kara Thrace fan, anyway! I like women kicking asses, for a change

I agree a woman could do great with action, humor, and character development. Even us guys can handle only so much, "Guy blows up bad guys, guy get's the girl, guy rides off into sunset."

I think women and men should write together, a story with both female/male touch could be interesting IMHO.
Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens are a prolific husband and wife writing team, for example. I think they made some real good episodes for Star Trek.

Unfortunately TPTB don't care about our opinions, in fact they wrote Stargate Universe and -after watching the first 10 episodes- it's a big NO-NO from me. I'll watch the others episode to come, hoping they will prove me wrong.

[Southern Red]

hee hee why not let him read the smutty ones? It could have . . . interesting . . . results!

Yeah...I figure it is what it is...I think it would have totally ticked me off if I'd watched from the start and kept hearing all the denial from TPTW about the ship but luckily I can just ignore it all and live in my own happy Sparky little world.

I'm going to watch The Real World and Common Ground again later with my Sparky glasses firmly on and then blog about it...I find the two eps being back to back kinda interesting...

I've seen a few eps of Bones here and there...I really need to start watching it regularly (it's on a channel I actually get!)

I don't let him read the smutty ones because I don't think he needs to know everything I am thinking about another man. LOL

No we're not crazy. All my family sees Sparky. My sister asked me if John was sad when his girlfriend (Elizabeth) was "killed". She only watch the first season and I found this question funny.

Question: I read on a LJ (don't ask me which one because I don't remember) that Joe said he would have like to see something between his character and Elizabeth. I understand nothing. I thought he prefered Sheyla. I'm lost.lol

That was in an interview in Stargate magazine. Joe was asked about what he would like to have happened and he said he would have liked John to have a romantic relationship with "his beautiful boss" on the order of the show Moonlighting. He has mentioned that show on a number of occasions. I hope someday we get to see him in a show like it.

What ship he prefers depends on who you talk to and who he talks to. At cons he tends to go along with what the fans want to hear in that respect. But overall I think he preferred Sheyla because when the show began they told him that's what would happen and never said anything different. But he has told a number of Sparky fans that he wouldn't have objected to our ship and made numerous jokes about it. He even said once that he didn't understand why he couldn't have both of them. So that tells me he's not terribly upset that one of them never happened. LOL

Well after the big disappointment I had in the past with the pairing Archer/T'Pol in Star Trek Enterprise, I learnt not to hope for anything when I watch shows where I ship for some pairing. I've learnt that TPTB never ever write the RIGHT relationships but always disappoint me. So be it ... they cannot change what's in my mind and fantasy, this is all MINE and I can do what I want with pictures, videos and fanfics.

I have always been a canon person. I don't ship couples that don't seem to have an onscreen connection. That is why I have been so frustrated with Sparky. If I had not thought they looked like they might have romantic feelings for each other, I would never have shipped them. For example, I can't imagine McWeir. And I liked Archer/T'Pol also at first.

I've seen a lot non-shipper people noticing Sparky but obviously TPTB are so arrogant they cannot give us what we want. Maybe if there was a woman writing episodes, things would be different. Or maybe if there was writers as the ones who wrote relationships Aeryn/John in Farscape or Mal/Inara in Firefly, thing would be very different. Pity!

Those were very well written ships but I don't think a woman would necessarily have made any difference. Carl Binder all the way back to his Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman days wrote great ship. And the women who are writing the new SGA books are likely to write a completely different ship than Sparky. So it could have gone very badly.

I knew that Torri wanted more character development because she was stalling and she was right. There were dozens of possibilities to bring her back after Lifeline and give her character a new meaning, but instead they fired her.
I didn't know there were problems with JF behind the scenes, do you know which kind of issues they had?

At ComicCon one year Torri mentioned that she was reluctant to go to TPTB and tell them what she wanted. Joe was right there and encouraged her to just do it. LOL And then he kissed her.

Since the show ended Joe has been very vocal at cons about how TPTB cut him out of the loop and stopped listening to his suggestions. He was somewhat of a spokesman for the others and went to TPTB at times on behalf of fellow cast members. But it seems that TPTB blamed him for any complaints or statements that they didn't like. Joe is very outspoken and cares very much that things be done right and was never afraid to speak up and say so. This didn't sit well with some of his bosses and increasingly over the years they made more and more sarcastic and downright critical remarks about him. But he just laughs it off and never says anything bad about them. Truly a class act.

I heard about the movie Stargate Extinction but seems not filming yet. Let's hope they don't mess with Sheppard and put him in some silly relationship with Teyla or Larrin

I know that this message will appear late and it's a little frustrating not to participate actively in discussions, but I think it's just a matter of time and patience and I'll be out of this "probie" status ... I have a signature banner ready!

The movie has been put on indefinite hold and will very likely never be made so we don't have to worry much. Joe Mallozzi said after SGA ended that in S6 they were planning to bring back Sheppard's ex-wife Nancy and maybe hook them up again. So that may have been planned for the movie. They made it pretty clear that Teyla will stay with Kanaan. In fact JM has answered numerous questions about it on his blog and said she got her happy ending and that even if she once had a crush on John she came to realize that the love of her life had been right in front of her all along, meaning Kanaan. So Sheyla is not going to happen. Larrin, due to Jill Wagner being busy elsewhere, is also unlikely and if it did happen I can't see it being a real romance. Just more of a fun sort of thing.

[Probie]

I watched S5 in italian recently (Italy is late, this season has not been aired on TV yet, only DVDs!) and now I've started rewatching it in english.
Not bad at all, very good stories, but my problem is the boss: Woolsey doesn't have the *leading* touch.
I'm not a fan of Ghost In The Machine at all. You don't leave 8 replicators floating in space, while you know (Niam has already proved it) that they can be recovered and revived, becoming a potential threat.
And the repli-Elizabeth was totally stranger to me, I cannot see anything of the old Elizabeth there.
What I hate the most in S5 is the fact that, except for GITM, Elizabeth is never mentioned or remembered by the crew. That's not fair
Shipping apart, Elizabeth Weir was a good leader and LOVED Atlantis, ready to fight for the city and for her people ... Carter and Woolsey were just ... well ... I can't find the word

In France, they began to air SGA season 5 last week on a channel (not free) and SG1 is actually in a free channel. Europe is very late.
For your second sentence, it's a lack of continuity. Writers don't know what this word means. I just want to do a comparison with NCIS. In an interview, an actor (Mark Harmon I think but not sure) said that when Kate died it was sad of course but the show must go on. They couldn't spend a whole season to cry Kate because the plot has to go somewhere and the new person (Ziva) would suffer of it. But he added the actors had to find a subtle way of showing that the loss of Kate has changed their characters. It's the job of the actor and not of the writers. (even if writers of NCIS did a great job with Kate because last week I watched an episode of the last season and there is a mention of Kate) I think he's right in a some level. We can't have all episodes talking about Elizabeth. It's more subtil. Joe made a good job. We can see the impact of the loss of Elizabeth on him. I know NCIS and SGA is very different. I just found interesting to do a comparison. I hope it's interesting.lol

pkprd869 Your friends are funny.
Like nephty said: Love your fic. Want more.

Eri: Torri said about Epiphany, her character was happy to go off world and use her skills for languages. She added it has nothing to do with Sheppard in danger but we all know it's not true.
"Home" was written by a woman no?

[Probie]

That was in an interview in Stargate magazine. Joe was asked about what he would like to have happened and he said he would have liked John to have a romantic relationship with "his beautiful boss" on the order of the show Moonlighting. He has mentioned that show on a number of occasions. I hope someday we get to see him in a show like it.

I forgot it. I'm a bad shipper. Shame on me.lol

What ship he prefers depends on who you talk to and who he talks to. At cons he tends to go along with what the fans want to hear in that respect. But overall I think he preferred Sheyla because when the show began they told him that's what would happen and never said anything different. But he has told a number of Sparky fans that he wouldn't have objected to our ship and made numerous jokes about it. He even said once that he didn't understand why he couldn't have both of them. So that tells me he's not terribly upset that one of them never happened. LOL

I already knew it it's because of this I found surprising to read on an "anti-shipper" LJ that Joe wants Sparky.
Teyla/John/Elizabeth...Shweyla?lol I'm sure if they were in SGU, John would have Teyla, Elizabeth, Larrin, Nancy, Hermiod, McKay,....lol

I have always been a canon person. I don't ship couples that don't seem to have an onscreen connection. That is why I have been so frustrated with Sparky. If I had not thought they looked like they might have romantic feelings for each other, I would never have shipped them. For example, I can't imagine McWeir. And I liked Archer/T'Pol also at first.

McKay and Elizabeth is not so horrible. They have some chemistry. Not romantic of course. But their chemistry is better than McKeller (tonight I'm against SGU and Keller lol). There are some hints for this ship (Rising,TS, TE, Epiphany, Echoes, GITM) even if I saw just a friendship and bid respect between them. In a french interview, there was a question for David about him and Weir and if there is something between them. He said "yes" because she was the only one to stand him but he didn't think there was a romantic bond between them.

Those were very well written ships but I don't think a woman would necessarily have made any difference. Carl Binder all the way back to his Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman days wrote great ship. And the women who are writing the new SGA books are likely to write a completely different ship than Sparky. So it could have gone very badly.

WHAT?! Carl Binder and Dr Quinn?
For the books, she can't change all the story and she's not the only writer.

[Southern Red]

I forgot it. I'm a bad shipper. Shame on me.lol



I already knew it it's because of this I found surprising to read on an "anti-shipper" LJ that Joe wants Sparky.
Teyla/John/Elizabeth...Shweyla?lol I'm sure if they were in SGU, John would have Teyla, Elizabeth, Larrin, Nancy, Hermiod, McKay,....lol



McKay and Elizabeth is not so horrible. They have some chemistry. Not romantic of course. But their chemistry is better than McKeller (tonight I'm against SGU and Keller lol). There are some hints for this ship (Rising,TS, TE, Epiphany, Echoes, GITM) even if I saw just a friendship and bid respect between them. In a french interview, there was a question for David about him and Weir and if there is something between them. He said "yes" because she was the only one to stand him but he didn't think there was a romantic bond between them.




WHAT?! Carl Binder and Dr Quinn?
For the books, she can't change all the story and she's not the only writer.

Yep, according to IMDB Carl wrote 19 episodes of that show and I remember loving the way the ship was done on there. Lots of UST.

On the writers, they can't change the story for the book and they won't have to. They will just write future events to suit them. But we don't have to read it.

Oh and yeah, I find the talk after cons about what ship Joe prefers to be LOL funny. I bet I could get him to say he liked Sparky in a heartbeat. But I would never be deceptive or try to put words in his mouth. SK had an interesting conversation with him about that and didn't have to do a thing but bring it up. He took off talking about it and even made the woobie face. He seems to love to tease and is very good at it. But I would never quote him as being 100% behind anything. He's an actor. He does what the script says. Up to a point. Nobody wrote those faces that just screamed Sparky and nobody made him talk about how much he missed Torri and how he'd like to have seen her come back. But he did.

[Scary Kitty]

Good afternoon, Sparkies! Happy Sparky!Family Saturday!

I'm rewatching season 3 right now and watching Progeny (trying to anyway, kinda distracted....)....anyway...every time I watch this ep I literally yell at Elizabeth and tell her not to go and not to trust Niam. (yeah, I know she won't listen but I can hope, right?)

*snerks* I keep yelling at them to just roll a nanite-magnet bomb (aka FRAN) through the Stargate and just let Asuras go ka-boom.

I'm still angry about some things but have made peace with the whole thing overall. As long as there's not a movie to mess it up, there's nothing else to worry about. Any books to be written are not going to be canon unless TPTB say so and even then only a very small fraction of viewers will ever read them so they can easily be ignored. Lalala.

*joins the denial brigade*

nephtys59 When news first came out about Miss Tori becoming a recurring star, in S4 I thought, "Alright, Ms. Tapping has a year left of her contract and they want to use her for the show. That's cool. Maybe they'll do something cool like, 'Carter uses her vast knowledge of replicators to develop new weapons and lead a large offensive against them.' Maybe find Lizzie along the way and she helps them by FUBAR-ing the replicator network. Then in S5 her character has deal with being part human part replicator. The IOA wants her iced, the SGC wants to use her to build weapons, and the team just wants their friend back. Maybe breakout Lizzie's diplomatic skills and lead a diplomatic team (I believe the SGC had those) and Shep's team can escort them in few eps, big explosions, sparky eyesex, and general good times had by all."

See, now that would've been cool. But nooo, all TPTW wanted to do was bury Weir so they could bring in their favorites.

I agree, Carter got reduced to nothing. I think she was only contracted for 14 eps, but the ones she was in could've given her more to do. I think bringing back the "New Order" Carter/Lizzie tension could've been really good. Love the ideas about Lizzie having to win everyone's trust back.

And that also would've been cool. I mean, TPTW make such a big to-do about how Carter's bringing all of her experience from SG-1 onto Atlantis, and they didn't even deal with Carter's experiences with Replicators and her conflict with Weir, which should've been shoe-ins given the events that led to Carter getting the job on Atlantis. The way they oh-so-carefully kept Carter away from the issue of Weir ended up making Carter look like a hypocrite sticking it to someone who got in her way in the past. Not a great way to make Atlantis fans like Carter, that's for sure.

The movie has been put on indefinite hold and will very likely never be made so we don't have to worry much. Joe Mallozzi said after SGA ended that in S6 they were planning to bring back Sheppard's ex-wife Nancy and maybe hook them up again. So that may have been planned for the movie. They made it pretty clear that Teyla will stay with Kanaan. In fact JM has answered numerous questions about it on his blog and said she got her happy ending and that even if she once had a crush on John she came to realize that the love of her life had been right in front of her all along, meaning Kanaan. So Sheyla is not going to happen. Larrin, due to Jill Wagner being busy elsewhere, is also unlikely and if it did happen I can't see it being a real romance. Just more of a fun sort of thing.

And I, for one, am very glad that it looks like the movie has been put on ice. That way the fans can come up with their own preferred endings without TPTW screwing things up for everybody, again.

Oh and yeah, I find the talk after cons about what ship Joe prefers to be LOL funny. I bet I could get him to say he liked Sparky in a heartbeat. But I would never be deceptive or try to put words in his mouth. SK had an interesting conversation with him about that and didn't have to do a thing but bring it up. He took off talking about it and even made the woobie face. He seems to love to tease and is very good at it. But I would never quote him as being 100% behind anything. He's an actor. He does what the script says. Up to a point. Nobody wrote those faces that just screamed Sparky and nobody made him talk about how much he missed Torri and how he'd like to have seen her come back. But he did.

Yup yup. I would guess that in retrospect, seeing how everything turned out, he's more open to the possibility of Sheppard with Weir (or one of the other ladies) and less locked into the plans that TPTW hinted at in the beginning but then ultimately abandoned in favor of pairing that potential love interest with someone else.

[pkprd869]

Hmm, Shep and Lizzie do "Moonlighting"? That would be great. Lots of humor (mostly sarcastic, scathing, remarks at each other), eyesex, tongue porn, etc. For our non-American friends, "Moonlighting" was a mid 1980's TV show about private detectives. (Bruce Willis and Cybil Shepherd) I've seen a few episodes, and I liked them. Great wit in the dialogue and tension out the wazoo. Lizzie and Shep doing that would've been great.

[Falcon Horus]

AH SEASON 4! Love that season! Donna!

Exactly!!

And Who/Torchwood/Sarah Jane PTB totally PAWN SG PTB!!

WHAT?! Carl Binder and Dr Quinn?

Second that.

[nephtys59]

I rewatched "Before I Sleep" for the nth time (it's my favourite) and there's one scene making me ask myself: "was the old Elizabeth in love with John?".

I refer to the scene when she's in the conference room telling her story. In that story everybody dies but her, and she's sad when she informs them about the way they all died but she completely breaks when she remembers about John's death. She says: "And that's when John ..." and then she passes out. And then we have this close-up on John's face.
Why is the old Elizabeth so torn remembering John? And she calls him "John", not Major Sheppard. The old Elizabeth in her timeline didn't have the time to come close to John as the younger did.
I wonder if there's more in the next conversation in the infirmary that she wanted to say to the young Elizabeth:

ALT-WEIR: Enjoy the moment -- what's here right now. The sun, the breeze ... our birthday!
WEIR: Sheppard couldn't keep it to himself, huh?!
ALT-WEIR: I'm just saying stop being so damned hard on yourself. Life is quick.

Maybe I'm just crazy ... but every time I watch that episode I see new things.

[Fionnait]

Back from skiing! Have I missed much?

They made it pretty clear that Teyla will stay with Kanaan. In fact JM has answered numerous questions about it on his blog and said she got her happy ending and that even if she once had a crush on John she came to realize that the love of her life had been right in front of her all along, meaning Kanaan. So Sheyla is not going to happen

Yeah, but why did all of that happen off-screen?

[Anuna]

Yeah, but why did all of that happen off-screen?

Because the writers rawk, that's why

[Anuna]

Stop saying you're sorry, when you're right you're right. And who says 9:20am is too early for nap? He acts up, it's his choice.

But yeah, ITA with you also. That's why the years when we were watching the show for the first time and having all those voices telling us Sparky did not exist, never would exist and was unthinkable were so frustrating. You begin to doubt your own sanity. If it hadn't been for my husband and son who kept telling me to relax I had nothing to worry about, I would have gone mad. I mean here we had two unemotional, non-shipper, SciFi fans who had watched every show and movie out there and knew the genre inside and out who said Sparky was too obvious not to be on purpose telling me that in the end John and Elizabeth would end up together. But the one factor that they didn't take into consideration was TPTB. Plus the way things turned out with Torri and the behind the scenes things that cannot be spoken concerning JF. Put all that together and in the end it worked out better than it might have and worse than it could have.

I'm still angry about some things but have made peace with the whole thing overall. As long as there's not a movie to mess it up, there's nothing else to worry about. Any books to be written are not going to be canon unless TPTB say so and even then only a very small fraction of viewers will ever read them so they can easily be ignored. Lalala.

Sheesh, SR, who says you have to watch the movie? Even if they make it, like, ever.

What we have here is a potentially great product that got scre*ed up by the people in the producing end of the line (and I mean complete PTB when I say it). The fact remains that PTB overlooked one small tiny thing, and that is the best two actors they had on the set. We didn't and I say we win at that. SGA definitely isn't the first show that went bad, even if the premise of it was good, even if it had good and fun moemnts. (I'm looking at you, enterprise). That's okay, I guess. Not everything can be excellent, but I believe, what we got out of it, in terms of Sparky, is amazing, and fun, and leaves us so much room to play with what ifs and love the show despite everything.