Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[KrisRussel]

I absolutely love all the discussions here tonight (today)!

For people who are interested and are on LJ... I just created an LJ account today to keep track of my sparky buddies, john/liz groups and to have a haven for my sparky fics (besides Command Dynamics). If you want to become friends with me, this is my account: http://krisrussel.livejournal.com/

And I'm still looking for beta for my sparky fics... if anyone's interested...

[yunadax]

I'm useless as a Beta, I enjoy reading the fics so much I miss/ignore all the spelling/grammer/phrasing too much to be of any use!!

[Southern Red]

Basically I'm not interested in getting tied up in stuff I don't 'get' because I haven't watched it for a season. Elizabeth was enough to draw me into GITM (plus, everything was fairly new with the Carter/Woolsey change over and I watched most of S4) but with Vegas being towards the end of S5, which I haven't watched at all, I was afraid I might get lost--and I'm not really interested in catching up, if you know what I mean.



I'm with you--I think that was it (though you could argue Spanky if you wished). I just found it interesting that she manages to break through in Ronon's psyche and not John's.

And actually, I do chalk that up to writer mistake because I don't think they want us to look that deep into the meaning of it, but I'm going to so *neener neener*

And FH, I've been meaning to tell you how much I love your sigs. I really enjoyed Tin Man when I saw it and was really hoping a series would get greenlit.

S5 is such an incoherent mess with no basic story arc unless you count Todd that not knowing what's happening is a blessing. IMHO. But I still managed to enjoy it more than S4. Maybe it was ship related or lack thereof.

Awwww. I just found this on JM's blog. Last scene plus a second of EaTG.

Spoiler:

[Reiko]

Awwww. I just found this on JM's blog. Last scene plus a second of EaTG.

Spoiler:

I thank JM for these pictures. The more I have, the easier it is to rearrange them after hacking them up and sticking Elizabeth in.

Hmm. I bet this confirms the Shep/Ronon as canon too, now.

[Scary Kitty]

So... Phantoms!

I'm a John fan as well as an Elizabeth fan, so I welcomed the chance to finally get some real backstory for him and find out just what happened in Afghanistan that got him punted to Antarctica. Of course, as has been the case with SGA, we got only a few bare bones, not even a complete picture, but what we did get gave us a lot of food for thought.

(And for those of you who are looking for the Sparky--an episode like this, you kinda have to look hard. But there is a nice moment where John knows exactly what Elizabeth will do when his team is overdue, and Elizabeth does just that. It's sorta sparkified. )

I loved that. More evidence of just how they know each other so well, they can anticipate each other's moves.

One of the things I like about this episode is how, on the outside, the illusions seem real, but WE don't realize where the line is blurred with our guys until John begins his. So right now, whether we're in Carson's illusion or real life, we just don't know.

That was one of the really fun things about untangling the story the first time I saw it. It's especially difficult to figure out where Carson's and Rodney's illusions begin and end, since both are more subtle variations of the real situation; Ronon's and John's, by comparison, are much easier to spot.

With John and Teyla in hot pursuit of Ronon, they are surprised by Leonard, without any explanation why. Teyla is injured, and as John tries to negotiate with the man, he wigs out and kills himself. Those of you who are SG-1 fans can probably tell us why he was so scared.

Blast those pesky Kull warriors, anyway!

Kudos to Joe Flanigan, because even though John's illusion is abrupt and sudden, he sells John's ability to transition from real life (Teyla being the injured party) to illusion (Holland being the injured party) without us blinking an eye. And we see how heinous the Wraith machine really is.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...antoms0338.jpg
Parallel this...

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...antoms0348.jpg
...with this. Nice work, directors and camera ops.

It was just damn spooky, too.

Back on Atlantis, Elizabeth hasn't given up trying to contact them, and she's brought in that secondary genius, Doctor Zelenka. They send a UAV to scout things out--and it's through this that we know Ronon's completely buried in his own illusion. He sees the craft as a Wraith dart...and shoots it down. OK--I have to ask...how did Ronon's little stunner manage that?

Ronon's got mad skillz.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...antoms0362.jpg
And...she looks worried again. Funny bit of trivia...on the Sanctuary commentary, Torri acknowledges that her character spends quite a bit of time worrying, and even mocks her Season 1 credit opening as 'worried. Worried. More worried.'

*snickers* Damn, I really need to watch Sanctuary with the commentary! (Point of fact, I haven't watched any of the commentaries. I know the ones with JoeF and David Hewlett are good; any other recommendations?)

Now here's something you might not have picked up on, but considering the tone of this episode, I think you might find it interesting. Did you catch that John, after a few brief 'ins and outs' completely forgets Teyla is there? Ronon, on the other hand, sees Teyla in 'the Wraith's' arms as John carries her through the forest. Rather than it being two Wraiths running side by side, Ronon separates Teyla from the illusion. Why?

Spanky. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

While I think the boys kinda steal the show with the bravura performances of paranoid delusions, I have to give some credit to Rachel Luttrell, who does a great job of balancing Teyla's fear of what's going on around her with the knowledge that she has to keep it together, despite a pretty serious injury, or risk either 1) getting shot or 2) losing everybody to their hallucinations. I think she does a pretty great job of acting those emotions effectively and well. Brava, Teyla.

I think Teyla is really the unsung hero of this episode; she kind of gets lost among the crazy stuff happening with everyone else's illusions, but she keeps her cool and manages to hold enough of the team together to get them through it. If Elizabeth is the 'mom' of Atlantis as a whole, then perhaps this episode shows Teyla as the 'mom' of her team.

Teyla and Rodney share a nice moment of similar mindset here--going back to the scene towards the beginning where Rodney shared information with Teyla about how to disconnect the machine. It's a rare time we get Teyla showing her scientific smarts, and I rather like it. It reminds me of the time she shocks Rodney with her camera contraption and swift mathematical skills in Epiphany.

And it was nice to see it hadn't been completely abandoned in 'The Daedalus Variations,' too.

Thankfully this IS Stargate, so we can't help but wrap up a rather tense episode with a bit of humor. So we get a final shot of Elizabeth talking with John (both of them ignoring Rodney), though I think Elizabeth is a bit terse for her normal character. Oh well. As we discussed earlier, this is the rotating writers' wheel. And she can comfort him in private later (whoa! where did that come from, that's not a canon analysis, Eri!)

But, whatever do you mean? It is so canon!

But I do think Rodney and John's final banter are pretty funny, particularly Rodney's constant sniping of "you SHOT me" and John, knowing he's guilty, unable to say anything to counter it. It IS pretty funny--you know it when even Ronon does a little needling.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...antoms0569.jpg
I can't believe you SHOT me!

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...antoms0570.jpg
"You shot me, too.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...antoms0568.jpg
I'm sorry for shooting EVERYONE!

That just had me in stitches. And it was a good way to lighten things up again after all the tenseness of the rest of the episode. But then, Carl Binder knows how to write a good episode, unlike some...

I also really like the little scene between Teyla and John. As I wasn't around for the ship wars, I don't know if this is considered Sheyla or not, but it's a nice moment. We get an honest look at one of the issues that drives John--after all, that entire Afghanistan experience--that one with Holland in particular--is the reason John was banished to Antarctica. And we learn that Holland didn't make it. Teyla chooses some nice words here to comfort him, both about that and this situation:

It probably is considered Sheyla by some, but I saw it much as I saw the Sheppard and Teyla scene on the Daedalus in 'Sateda.' Good, close friendship, with Teyla trying to comfort John about things he can't change. But nothing more than that.

Overall, Phantoms isn't an episode I dislike, but it's not one I immediately rush to put in my DVD player when I need an SGA fix. Even on my scale of general episodes, there are others I find more entertaining. But it showcases some nice ideas, and Joe Flanigan and Paul McGillion really shine. And we get to see how scary Sheppard really can be as a do-or-die soldier, which is always worth a look.

Though admittedly, 'The Eye' is always my first choice in that arena.

[Scary Kitty]

S5 is such an incoherent mess with no basic story arc unless you count Todd that not knowing what's happening is a blessing. IMHO. But I still managed to enjoy it more than S4. Maybe it was ship related or lack thereof.

Yeah, when you go in with low expectations, it's easier to be surprised.

Awwww. I just found this on JM's blog. Last scene plus a second of EaTG.

Spoiler:

I thank JM for these pictures. The more I have, the easier it is to rearrange them after hacking them up and sticking Elizabeth in.

*snickers* There's nothing a little Photoshop won't cure!

Hmm. I bet this confirms the Shep/Ronon as canon too, now.

Just what I was thinking; the Shexers must be having spasms of joy right about now.

[Southern Red]

I thank JM for these pictures. The more I have, the easier it is to rearrange them after hacking them up and sticking Elizabeth in.

Hmm. I bet this confirms the Shep/Ronon as canon too, now.

They have always had a special bond. We all know it. And now they get their happy ending.

On Phantoms, I love the scene at the end when John talked to Elizabeth on the radio. He was so concerned that she would worry and went out of his way to reassure her. In fact I remember at the time my usually clueless husband said something about calling home so the wife won't worry. Heh.

I also remember the fun we had in this thread at the time being silly talking about how John thought Teyla was a man most of the time. We were so bad. No wonder they hate us.

[Reiko]

Of course, as has been the case with SGA, we got only a few bare bones, not even a complete picture, but what we did get gave us a lot of food for thought.

At times, I think this makes the experience more fun in spite of sloppy back-storytelling. (Or maybe because of it.) Leaves more room to interpret things = more room for speculation and discussion.

*snickers* Damn, I really need to watch Sanctuary with the commentary! (Point of fact, I haven't watched any of the commentaries. I know the ones with JoeF and David Hewlett are good; any other recommendations?)

Which ones have you seen? (I know we discussed this a few weeks back, but I forgot.)

[Scary Kitty]

They have always had a special bond. We all know it. And now they get their happy ending.

Complete with drinking beer at 4 in the afternoon after a hard day of Wraith hunting. And as that thought occurred to me, I got the mental image of John and Ronon dressed in tweed coats with long rifles, just like in an old English fox hunt.

On Phantoms, I love the scene at the end when John talked to Elizabeth on the radio. He was so concerned that she would worry and went out of his way to reassure her. In fact I remember at the time my usually clueless husband said something about calling home so the wife won't worry. Heh.

Further proof that John and Elizabeth are SO married.

I also remember the fun we had in this thread at the time being silly talking about how John thought Teyla was a man most of the time. We were so bad. No wonder they hate us.

*cackles* OMG, that's so evil! I love it!

At times, I think this makes the experience more fun in spite of sloppy back-storytelling. (Or maybe because of it.) Leaves more room to interpret things = more room for speculation and discussion.

And twisting events to our own sordid ends.

Which ones have you seen? (I know we discussed this a few weeks back, but I forgot.)

None.

[Anuna]

I love to say I told you so. And you know how giddy I've been since I first saw it. I may just watch it again later.


Stop what you're doing. Drop everything and go watch it now. On a pure John level, Vegas is the epitome of Johnness. Or should I say Joeness? If somebody doesn't give this man a primetime broadcast network series playing a worn out broken down sadsack of a cop, I will hunt them down and do damage. He would give the oldest stereotype in Hollywood a whole new life. I'm talking Bogie, Bruce Willis and Al Pacino. Only hot.

Actually a movie might work better. Then he could be a drug addict or a drunk, sleep with the nurse in the hottest scene ever to hit the big screen, break her heart, sleep with the pole dancer in the really hottest scene ever to hit the big screen, find her dead in his bed the next morning and get thrown in jail after a lengthy strip search followed by a shower scene, then join forces with his new buddy played by Steve Buscemi and escape. They make a run for it while being chased by bloodhounds. Shep Joe's character loses his shirt in the swamp after narrowly escaping but not before getting bitten on the hindend. They get all muddy and have to bathe in a river for a long time. (Steve's bath takes place mostly off camera.) Then they run some more. They happen upon a farm where a beautiful widder woman lives alone (This is where Torri comes in.) She takes them in and doctors John's dog bite while Steve keeps watch. *flails* Lord have mercy.

Lord help us all, indeed. I'd skip the pole dancer scene, if you know what I mean. Actually, leave everything, drop them at the farm, lose Steve and the fun can begin. Period.

I wanna re read that lumberjack fic now.

*LOL* Have you been thinking about this much?

Hmmm...with all the stuff you guys have been saying--and Anuna's stamp of approval--I might have to d/l Vegas. I'm not interested in anything forwarding the current season of SG:A--would you say I'm safe with Vegas being a total, complete, unarguable stand-alone?

You're totally safe with Vegas. It's an AU where the rules are set as you go, I don't think anything will confuse you - I skipped most of the S4 and S5 and still enjoyed it.

Anuna, you've been a bad, bad girl, and I'm gonna have to give you some chocolate cake as a reward! That is so deliciously awesome!

That's me, being evil per order. This time it was SR who ordered. Haha.

They have always had a special bond. We all know it. And now they get their happy ending.

On Phantoms, I love the scene at the end when John talked to Elizabeth on the radio. He was so concerned that she would worry and went out of his way to reassure her. In fact I remember at the time my usually clueless husband said something about calling home so the wife won't worry. Heh.

I also remember the fun we had in this thread at the time being silly talking about how John thought Teyla was a man most of the time. We were so bad. No wonder they hate us.

Oh please. She was a man, how can't you see the romance? It's a final proof of Shep playing for the other team. Couple that with that last piccy from the blog of doom - enter happy endings where the chemistry at least exists!

And speaking of piccies, if you ladies need more convincing to watch Vegas.....

Spoiler:

This is John when AU Rodney mentions the field medic for the first time:





We know there is one single reason that makes him this teary eyed, and it's not onions in his sandwich.

Field medic moment #2. You need to watch this closely to capture the changes on John's face. As much as I love those glasses, I wish we could see his eyes here. But look at Rodney! He totally gets the true love!
















And this little moment? I love this pic. I think this is THE John portrait we have here.



And they even gave him appropriate, in character and dignified ending. A very gutsy move, if you ask me. I loved it.







If you ask me, we did get it. John died loving Elizabeth. It's a ship confirmation - that's my story and I'm stickin' with it.

[KrisRussel]

On Phantoms, I love the scene at the end when John talked to Elizabeth on the radio. He was so concerned that she would worry and went out of his way to reassure her. In fact I remember at the time my usually clueless husband said something about calling home so the wife won't worry. Heh.

Haha! So true! It really did feel that way

[KrisRussel]

And speaking of piccies, if you ladies need more convincing to watch Vegas.....

Spoiler:

This is John when AU Rodney mentions the field medic for the first time:





We know there is one single reason that makes him this teary eyed, and it's not onions in his sandwich.

Field medic moment #2. You need to watch this closely to capture the changes on John's face. As much as I love those glasses, I wish we could see his eyes here. But look at Rodney! He totally gets the true love!
















And this little moment? I love this pic. I think this is THE John portrait we have here.



And they even gave him appropriate, in character and dignified ending. A very gutsy move, if you ask me. I loved it.







If you ask me, we did get it. John died loving Elizabeth. It's a ship confirmation - that's my story and I'm stickin' with it.

I totally agree with everything you said... Vegas is a complete stand-alone ep and Joe's performance is amazing. You can read the pain and agony on his face and you're right, there's only one person we have ever known him to be this brokenhearted about.
Kudos to the creators and especially Rob Cooper for this amazing episode... if only the rest of s4 and s5 had been of this quality, then maybe Atlantis wouldn't have been canceled. Keeping Elizabeth also would have helped.

[Eri13]

They have always had a special bond. We all know it. And now they get their happy ending.

On Phantoms, I love the scene at the end when John talked to Elizabeth on the radio. He was so concerned that she would worry and went out of his way to reassure her. In fact I remember at the time my usually clueless husband said something about calling home so the wife won't worry. Heh.

I also remember the fun we had in this thread at the time being silly talking about how John thought Teyla was a man most of the time. We were so bad. No wonder they hate us.

Ah...the good old days, when all you people did was fight each other over which female was better for John instead of character deaths and lovers popping up out of nowhere and stuff. *headdesk*

^snips

*snickers* Damn, I really need to watch Sanctuary with the commentary! (Point of fact, I haven't watched any of the commentaries. I know the ones with JoeF and David Hewlett are good; any other recommendations?)

Sorry for the snippage--I appreciate all your comments, as always.

I recommend actor ones for Season 1. I thought Hewlett, Wood and Gero were pretty fun and interesting on "The Eye" (actually, "The Storm" commentary is not bad, either). Plus, you get to hear them talking about how much Torri and David suffered during the pier sequences. 38 Minutes was good; I enjoyed Critical Mass, too. Anything with Paul McGillion is fun, and there is one commentary that starts out as Paul and Rachel, and Torri comes in at about the last 10 minutes and they really cut it up. I don't remember which one it is, but it's listed on the DVDs.

And of course, just for recommendations, I suggest "The Long Goodbye" because it's Torri and the director and you get to hear how she reacted to becoming another 'person'. Not much on the kiss, I think, though.

That just had me in stitches. And it was a good way to lighten things up again after all the tenseness of the rest of the episode. But then, Carl Binder knows how to write a good episode, unlike some...

I didn't even realize Carl wrote that one. Explains why it's a solid character story. I love that man. I think I should fangirl him, too.

I totally agree with everything you said... Vegas is a complete stand-alone ep and Joe's performance is amazing. You can read the pain and agony on his face and you're right, there's only one person we have ever known him to be this brokenhearted about.
Kudos to the creators and especially Rob Cooper for this amazing episode... if only the rest of s4 and s5 had been of this quality, then maybe Atlantis wouldn't have been canceled. Keeping Elizabeth also would have helped.

True dat.

[Eri13]

Lord help us all, indeed. I'd skip the pole dancer scene, if you know what I mean. Actually, leave everything, drop them at the farm, lose Steve and the fun can begin. Period.

I wanna re read that lumberjack fic now.

You're totally safe with Vegas. It's an AU where the rules are set as you go, I don't think anything will confuse you - I skipped most of the S4 and S5 and still enjoyed it.

That's me, being evil per order. This time it was SR who ordered. Haha.

Oh please. She was a man, how can't you see the romance? It's a final proof of Shep playing for the other team. Couple that with that last piccy from the blog of doom - enter happy endings where the chemistry at least exists!

And speaking of piccies, if you ladies need more convincing to watch Vegas.....

Okay, okay, I'm convinced! And you just killed me ded with those, thanks.

[Eri13]

Triple post to remind everyone:

TONIGHT is Torri's episode of NCIS. It comes on at 8 PM ET/7 PM CT on your local CBS station. She is reprising her role of Doctor Jordan Hampton.

If you need an NCIS primer, I posted a rather long summary of the show and Torri's role:

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....ostcount=12682

If you want to write to the producer/show runner Shane Brennan, thanking him for including her in the story, here is one available address:

Shane Brennan
NCIS
c/o Belisarius Prod./Paramount TV
1438 N. Gower Street
Building 35, 4F
Hollywood, CA 90028
USA

You can visit the CBS website at : http://www.cbs.com/primetime/ncis/

You can also drop CBS a note via an internet link (thanks SMB Books and Suzotcha):

http://www.cbs.com/info/user_service...lobal_form.php