Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

Whom are you calling "sane"? Lol.

Well, our very own extra-special brand of sanity, that is...

Ditto. If the place turns friendly, why wouldn't we stay, if we're still welcome? And if I'm not mistaken this thread is among bigger threads in C&R. Also, it's the only thread I visit, so it's the sole reason for me being on this forum - if someone decides to get it closed, I won't be coming back here.

Indeed. Shutting down such a major draw for members would be like shooting themselves in the foot. There's a few other threads that I visit, but most of those topics have alternate forums/LJs as well, so they wouldn't hold me here, either.

Also, good idea about J7E comm - I just hope the mods would be open to discussion?

I can't speak for the comm mods, but if you look back through the archive, there have been a number of really interesting discussion posts there, especially in the early days. So discussion posts certainly appear to be welcome.

[Reiko]

I wish they did a better job with this show we all like. Also, I wish they never had a chance ruining something we enjoyed so much, I think I can be resentful about that, and happy I won't have to stand it any more.

There was a discussion in the Vision thread about GW should be for people that like SG, but you have to remember that I think everyone here liked SGA at one time. Problem is, Fan X and Fan Y both liked SGA s1-s3 but only Fan Y likes SGA now. So what went wrong. So I wish they continued with the way things were and enhanced it instead of tweaking it around in a ridiculous fashion.

And then people say "it's not PTB's fault fandom is so divided!" But it is. TPTW are the reasons SGA fandom is in such a mess. For example, if the removal of these two characters were handled much more smoothly (or if it was the actor's choice to leave instead of getting replaced 'cos their not hawt enough or stunt casting or whatnot) and that grieving processes were handled in character I doubt the apparent polarization on the boards would be as heavy as they are/were.

Or, whatever. I'm rambling again.

[Scary Kitty]

There was a discussion in the Vision thread about GW should be for people that like SG, but you have to remember that I think everyone here liked SGA at one time. Problem is, Fan X and Fan Y both liked SGA s1-s3 but only Fan Y likes SGA now. So what went wrong. So I wish they continued with the way things were and enhanced it instead of tweaking it around in a ridiculous fashion.

Exactly! At the end of the day, we're all fans of Stargate. We just have different opinions about certain aspects of Stargate. What the heck is wrong with that? And why are some people so damn afraid of certain viewpoints that they're willing to suppress open discussion in order to pretend that those viewpoints don't exist?

And then people say "it's not PTB's fault fandom is so divided!" But it is. TPTW are the reasons SGA fandom is in such a mess. For example, if the removal of these two characters were handled much more smoothly (or if it was the actor's choice to leave instead of getting replaced 'cos their not hawt enough or stunt casting or whatnot) and that grieving processes were handled in character I doubt the apparent polarization on the boards would be as heavy as they are/were.

Or, whatever. I'm rambling again.

Naw, you're not rambling. You're telling it like it is. TPTW did screw up. If they had made an honest effort to handle things (both on-screen and behind-the-scenes) with genuine decency and respect towards all involved, instead of resting on their laurels and half-*ssing everything in sight, we wouldn't have had a reason to be angry.

[Reiko]

Exactly! At the end of the day, we're all fans of Stargate. We just have different opinions about certain aspects of Stargate. What the heck is wrong with that? And why are some people so damn afraid of certain viewpoints that they're willing to suppress open discussion in order to pretend that those viewpoints don't exist?

Yes! That's exactly what I don't get. I want to be able to discuss things in a respectful manner with people of various parts of fandom. But ever more often, it's becoming more impossible when certain bad eggs ruin the fun or restrictions on what we can or can't say. Or the mere merging of a topic ... pffft.

We can all be adult, but problems begin once people begin to make it personal. Like someone assumes oh-so-well that the reason I don't like J/T is because I ship both characters with other people. Or when someone once tried to argue that they miss Sam more than I miss Weir. Erm, whatever.

Naw, you're not rambling. You're telling it like it is. TPTW did screw up. If they had made an honest effort to handle things (both on-screen and behind-the-scenes) with genuine decency and respect towards all involved, instead of resting on their laurels and half-*ssing everything in sight, we wouldn't have had a reason to be angry.

For me TPTB lost it when they never dealt with the characters' loss of their friends. Instead of having the cast go through the emotions associated with trauma and loss they just jumped over x amount of time/did it offscreen. However by forgetting this and thrusting new things into my face I am not only rendered resentful and distrusting but robbed of my opportunity to 'grieve' for the character pffft, they're fictional, I know and to become slowly accustomed to change.

To me it's vital that writers help the viewer deal with the loss of a character by having the fans follow the healing process with a surviving character. It's critical that the writers do this or you risk fans' going bonkers. And there's supposed to be a greater reason or meaning to death in fiction. Usually that reason is eventually addressed in storyline by the survivors. If no reason is found there will be bloody murder.

That's what bothered me the most. And I'm pissed off if people tell me that we wouldn't have great episodes if they hadn't been written out. By season 5 I was already alienated from the series by the mishandled cast changes both IC and OOC when my two favourite characters were brushed aside that I had plenty of reason not to give it a chance.

[Scary Kitty]

Yes! That's exactly what I don't get. I want to be able to discuss things in a respectful manner with people of various parts of fandom. But ever more often, it's becoming more impossible when certain bad eggs ruin the fun or restrictions on what we can or can't say. Or the mere merging of a topic ... pffft.

We can all be adult, but problems begin once people begin to make it personal. Like someone assumes oh-so-well that the reason I don't like J/T is because I ship both characters with other people. Or when someone once tried to argue that they miss Sam more than I miss Weir. Erm, whatever.

Yeah, there's this attitude that some seem to have, that their views are more important than anyone else's, especially if those "anyone elses" happen to have opposing views. They're all like, "my way is the only way, so STFU so I can hit you over the head with my big bad anti-Sparky/anti-Weir sledgehammer." Ugh, give me a break.

For me TPTB lost it when they never dealt with the characters' loss of their friends. Instead of having the cast go through the emotions associated with trauma and loss they just jumped over x amount of time/did it offscreen. However by forgetting this and thrusting new things into my face I am not only rendered resentful and distrusting but robbed of my opportunity to 'grieve' for the character pffft, they're fictional, I know and to become slowly accustomed to change.

To me it's vital that writers help the viewer deal with the loss of a character by having the fans follow the healing process with a surviving character. It's critical that the writers do this or you risk fans' going bonkers. And there's supposed to be a greater reason or meaning to death in fiction. Usually that reason is eventually addressed in storyline by the survivors. If no reason is found there will be bloody murder.

That's what bothered me the most. And I'm pissed off if people tell me that we wouldn't have great episodes if they hadn't been written out. By season 5 I was already alienated from the series by the mishandled cast changes both IC and OOC when my two favourite characters were brushed aside that I had plenty of reason not to give it a chance.

Yeah, they're fictional characters. But the way I see it, if someone can't show sympathy about a fictional character's death and the grief of the survivors, I have to wonder if they're just as quick to dismiss grief over the death of a person in real life. If they don't care about fictional characters, does it mean they're less likely to care about real people, too? I find that thought disturbing. The fact that TPTW's treatment of the whole issue has only allowed such a lack of compassion to gain a foothold in the fandom is really quite sad.

[gateraid]

Yes they are fictional characters, but if there's one thing that I took out of Stargate (and the later Star treks) is that they try to make the people be something to aspire to. They question what it is to be human. Sometimes, that can be incredibly annoying, but sometimes it provides for some incredibly emotional scenes. And while this is a generalisation (an incredibly big one), sci fi has always appeared to be written by people who haven't experienced the full range of life and emotions, for people who haven't experienced the full range of life and emotions. If they suddenly decide that it's okay not to react when somebody dies, what sort of example does that set? Not a very good one.

Likewise (I know many of you have a different opinion on this) people should move on from their grief. It's natural, it's the sign of a well adjusted human being. If Shep had hooked up with Teyla after dealing with/realising his feelings for Weir, I'd have been okay with that, because people don't grieve for a dead spouse forever (nobody would ever remarry if that were the case). It'd have to be done well though, and given some of the stuff that has been produced of late, it wouldn't have happened that way.

Regarding the vision statement stuff, I doubt they would touch threads such as this (ignoring that surprising merge the other day - WTF??). They pretty much police themselves. I did object to the squeeing description though. If that were true, I never would have come back. Some of the best discussion, sparky or otherwise, comes from this thread. The ep recaps are made of awesome However, I do think they are using the opportunity that the end of the series and the coinciding holiday period presents. Many people will read that, say wtf?? and may just not come back after the holidays. Attrition by default, if you will.

I have/do post on other anti threads, including some anti character threads. It's my impression (I don't read every post) that people do not actor bash in those threads (love x, hate x's character) any more than in the main thread. If they do, it gets deleted fairly quickly, and rightly so. While the majority of the stuff in those threads is in jest, there's some fairly constructive discussion there on ways to improve things. And frankly, if actor or ptw X looks through the anti thread and gets offended, that's a little silly. Why would they go there? By the same token, why would they go to the pro threads? They are more likely to be offended if the pro and anti threads are removed and some of that stuff is put in the general threads.

[Southern Red]

Wow, you guys were busy last night. And now I'm awake with lots to say. What? Are you surprised?

GW actually used to be kind of nice. It used to be the only thing shippers had to worry about was the occasional drive-by poster who wanted to stir up some crap. Then the post would get reported en masse and the mods would come in, delete the post and thwap that person. Of course, those drive-bys usually weren't other shippers who felt threatened. We left them to their threads and they left us to ours. And a wonderful community developed, much as it did in this thread.

And then something changed.

As the forum got bigger, people got bolder and more willing to push the boundaries. And certain groups who shall remain nameless *cough* took to attacking others while still managing to stay just inside the rules. No more "live and let live" philosophy just outright nastiness. Many here tried to stay on the moral high ground by ignoring those other groups but the others felt threatened and couldn't leave it alone. If this Vision statement is implemented effectively, it could be a way to get back that safe place to play that so many shippers (like myself) want. Personally, I just want to ship Sparky with the occasional side order of Joe thunk and enjoy myself without the harassment from folks who are so insecure that they have to go attack others to make themselves feel better. And hopefully this new vision of Darren's can make that happen. And if it gets me the chance to ship Sparky in peace, then I'm all for it.

And if not, I guess we'll just have to find a new place to play.

The nice days must have been very early on. I arrived in the midst of the first shipper war. SWI? People were calling Weir/TH old and ugly and getting away with it. Granted that person and her socks are gone now but it took several years I believe to get rid of them no matter how much we complained. Then she was replaced by someone so vile the whole forum was tainted for another couple of years. Actually right now there are fewer really crazy (my description) posters than since I came here. I have actual friends in that other ship.

The mods claim they are not going to touch the C&R section. This new vision is to be rolled out in the SGU section, which won't be a problem for me.

This thread DOES exist!!!! yay! *happy*

We not only exist, we are very active and have great in depth discussions.Welcome.

Re the vision - oh, I can play nice *hides fangs, claws and horns* It's just that I get really nasty when people come waving around with foul niceness. SR taught me well.

*snippage for space*

I love that phrase in bold. Foul niceness. That's my biggest pet peeve also. I can take a good argument. Heck, I love to argue. But the posters who come in here dripping sincerity and tell you your opinion isn't worth anything make me want to puke. You see a lot of that in the general threads. It's always the same people who then go back to their favorite threads and post condescending remarks about shippers or just other fans in general. We're oh so superior and no one can ever aspire to being as perfect as we are. Oh please.

There was a discussion in the Vision thread about GW should be for people that like SG, but you have to remember that I think everyone here liked SGA at one time. Problem is, Fan X and Fan Y both liked SGA s1-s3 but only Fan Y likes SGA now. So what went wrong. So I wish they continued with the way things were and enhanced it instead of tweaking it around in a ridiculous fashion.

And then people say "it's not PTB's fault fandom is so divided!" But it is. TPTW are the reasons SGA fandom is in such a mess. For example, if the removal of these two characters were handled much more smoothly (or if it was the actor's choice to leave instead of getting replaced 'cos their not hawt enough or stunt casting or whatnot) and that grieving processes were handled in character I doubt the apparent polarization on the boards would be as heavy as they are/were.

Or, whatever. I'm rambling again.

That's the whole point. We love/loved SGA. That's why we're here. Just because we're sick hearted about what's been done to it doesn't make us any less wrong than those who think S5 is the bestest evah!OMG!.

But see, TPTB don't want to know what we think. They want us to go away. Elizabeth is dead to them. They think the Sparky shippers and the Torri fans should be gone by now. And pretty soon they will tell us we're being paranoid because we think we're being discriminated against and are immature for *****ing and moaning so much. It's a trick people use when they have no valid argument. If you can't answer a question or express your opinion so it makes logical sense, just attack the other side. Try to put them on the spot. It's working great over in the vision thread. And may I say our Reiko and marimba26 are doing a great job over there.

Yeah, there's this attitude that some seem to have, that their views are more important than anyone else's, especially if those "anyone elses" happen to have opposing views. They're all like, "my way is the only way, so STFU so I can hit you over the head with my big bad anti-Sparky/anti-Weir sledgehammer." Ugh, give me a break.



Yeah, they're fictional characters. But the way I see it, if someone can't show sympathy about a fictional character's death and the grief of the survivors, I have to wonder if they're just as quick to dismiss grief over the death of a person in real life. If they don't care about fictional characters, does it mean they're less likely to care about real people, too? I find that thought disturbing. The fact that TPTW's treatment of the whole issue has only allowed such a lack of compassion to gain a foothold in the fandom is really quite sad.

And these people make the most noise saying that being able to express their opinion unmolested is all they want. Sure it is. Nice try but until they tell us to leave, Sparky is alive.

[Eri13]

You know, I'm thinking about starting a sparky forum, should we be banished from this one.

One thing is certain, this place will never be kind in general. It's futile labor, if you ask me, it's mean by default, and there will always be someone who'll want to complain about something, that's in human nature. If they start filtering complaints and criticism it will soon end in censorship, and then there's no point in having a forum if everyone has to agree.

I was thinking that exact same thing last night. Just...I know SK mentioned the LJ comm--please don't do that! I can't hang out with you guys if you leave for LJ...

GW actually used to be kind of nice. It used to be the only thing shippers had to worry about was the occasional drive-by poster who wanted to stir up some crap. Then the post would get reported en masse and the mods would come in, delete the post and thwap that person. Of course, those drive-bys usually weren't other shippers who felt threatened. We left them to their threads and they left us to ours. And a wonderful community developed, much as it did in this thread.

And then something changed.

As the forum got bigger, people got bolder and more willing to push the boundaries. And certain groups who shall remain nameless *cough* took to attacking others while still managing to stay just inside the rules. No more "live and let live" philosophy just outright nastiness. Many here tried to stay on the moral high ground by ignoring those other groups but the others felt threatened and couldn't leave it alone. If this Vision statement is implemented effectively, it could be a way to get back that safe place to play that so many shippers (like myself) want. Personally, I just want to ship Sparky with the occasional side order of Joe thunk and enjoy myself without the harassment from folks who are so insecure that they have to go attack others to make themselves feel better. And hopefully this new vision of Darren's can make that happen. And if it gets me the chance to ship Sparky in peace, then I'm all for it.

And if not, I guess we'll just have to find a new place to play.

Exactly! At the end of the day, we're all fans of Stargate. We just have different opinions about certain aspects of Stargate. What the heck is wrong with that? And why are some people so damn afraid of certain viewpoints that they're willing to suppress open discussion in order to pretend that those viewpoints don't exist?

Naw, you're not rambling. You're telling it like it is. TPTW did screw up. If they had made an honest effort to handle things (both on-screen and behind-the-scenes) with genuine decency and respect towards all involved, instead of resting on their laurels and half-*ssing everything in sight, we wouldn't have had a reason to be angry.

I waded through the first 15 pages of the Vision statement, and my comment was sorta along those lines.

This forum isn't about a 'show', it's about shows. And just like you couldn't put together a forum with all of Joss Whedon's shows and expect a united, happy group of people (think of the discord when Angel spun off, or when Firefly was canceled) you can't put all of the fans of SG-1, SGA, and now SGU together and expect them to all get along. There will be SG-1 fans who will forever feel SG-1 went down because TPTB wanted to preserve Atlantis. And there will be Atlantis fans who feel their favorite characters were let go because TPTB wanted to keep SG-1's cast alive. Or that SGA was canceled because of SGU. No one is going to be 'happy.'

[Eri13]

There was a discussion in the Vision thread about GW should be for people that like SG, but you have to remember that I think everyone here liked SGA at one time. Problem is, Fan X and Fan Y both liked SGA s1-s3 but only Fan Y likes SGA now. So what went wrong. So I wish they continued with the way things were and enhanced it instead of tweaking it around in a ridiculous fashion.

And then people say "it's not PTB's fault fandom is so divided!" But it is. TPTW are the reasons SGA fandom is in such a mess. For example, if the removal of these two characters were handled much more smoothly (or if it was the actor's choice to leave instead of getting replaced 'cos their not hawt enough or stunt casting or whatnot) and that grieving processes were handled in character I doubt the apparent polarization on the boards would be as heavy as they are/were.

Or, whatever. I'm rambling again.

I've been a member (and actually run a couple) of forums since I've been participating online. I've not ever seen this kind of dissension among fans, but I still trace it back to the fact that it's a 3-show world you're dealing with and some poor decisions made on the development front.

When I modded HP forums, there was a TON of 'ship war' fighting between groups of fans. It could get negative and nasty, but it was about the 'ships', not about the 'books'. You didn't have naysayers of JKR wander into HP forums very often. People there loved HP. But it was one series written in a continuous epic style.

Here, the show started off that way, but when you introduce spin-offs, kill off major characters, you start to get fan dissatisfaction with the show. With 3 shows, it's even worse. And because some people like this show, but don't like that show, you're going to have naysayers. And some people end up critics of decisions made, but when the forums didn't limit criticism of the show (and it shouldn't) you left it open for those who have an 'anti' view. Because people preferred the show one way before and not as it is now. And they still enjoy it 'as it was' (that's essentially what our threaddoes) and perhaps hold out hope that if they voice their opinions long enough, the PTB will listen and change things. Even when it seems completely hopeless (which a lot of people admit it pretty much is).

And, of course, their friendships. For some people, they've been here years. Being loyal to a show for that long, and then, all of sudden, they're expected to leave because they don't like what happened and are no longer a die hard fan? That's silly.

The strange part is--if all the people who were critical of the decisions made just left one day, the forum leadership would question where all the 'fans' went. As would the show executives. I mean, if you were a producer, and you had low ratings but no critics, wouldn't you wonder what the heck was going on?

[Southern Red]

I'm dropping off a new fic. This is the longest one I've ever done and I'm exhausted. It's Christmas fluff, but I hope the lack of smut and/or overt romance won't disappoint. It's set in an AU in which John never went to Atlantis, but of course you know Elizabeth will turn up in his life. And there are a couple of other friends who show up in various forms also. Hope you enjoy. Home for Christmas

[marimba26]

I can display admirable mature behavior, but what I hate are backstabbing little games, and what dragged my nastiness in the open, I think, were the people (most of them from a certain group, and we know which group that is) who were gloating about TH getting fired.

Disliking a ship is one thing, being happy about a real person losing a job is another matter. <snip>

Ditto. It was that kind of nastiness that brought out my claws in the worst way. Most of my spleen went on LJ but I have never felt as hateful to others as I did after reading that crap. For the most part, I try to be nice and get along but that was the last straw. No one should be happy when someone else gets fired. Even if you hate the character (I wasn't all that enamored of Ford personally but I'm not glad RSF was fired), it's no cause to hate the actor. It's a prime example of a few insecure people who have to make it bad for the rest of us.

[marimba26]

I agree. On the one hand, I'm glad that I won't have to watch a show that I used to love be ruined on a weekly basis any more; on the other hand, I really wish that they had been able to correct their mistakes and keep the show on the air longer. I think we all would've been far happier with that outcome, Pros and Antis alike. It's a shame that they've lost out, but the producers, film crew and other behind-the-scenes people still have SGU to fall back on; it's the cast that's really SOL. And it's a damn shame that it had to happen the way it did.

This is exactly how I feel. I like to say at cons that I can love what was without loving what is. I would have loved to see them fix things and if they had, I would have happily watched for five more seasons. As it was, I haven't managed to watch anything past This Mortal Coil except The Shrine and I only watched that when I went to a friend's house who wanted to watch it. The whole thing makes me incredibly sad though.

I watched SG-1 from Emancipation and stuck it out until almost the bitter end but I just couldn't watch something I loved so much turn to crap again after watching it happen with X-Files. I just didn't want to be as bitter about the whole thing as I was for 6 years about X-Files. I had nine seasons of X-Files DVDs that I never unwrapped because I couldn't bear to watch it again until this year. And I didn't want to feel that way about SGA.

As for the cast, I really hope they'll go a long way. I'll miss them on SGA but already missed them so it's nothing new. This cancellation was to my mind inevitable once Torri was fired. I think when you start firing leads then there is something seriously wrong. It's one thing if they want to leave but what they did to Torri was just plain wrong.

[gateraid]

<snip snip>

As for the cast, I really hope they'll go a long way. I'll miss them on SGA but already missed them so it's nothing new. This cancellation was to my mind inevitable once Torri was fired. I think when you start firing leads then there is something seriously wrong. It's one thing if they want to leave but what they did to Torri was just plain wrong.

ITA. Touching any one of the big three (Shep, Weir, McKay) would have been a disaster. Yet that's exactly what they did. Sheppard has been less affected, McKay is incredibly OOC now (McKeller anyone??) and Elizabeth is just plain

Spoiler:

dead

. It's like saying that everything they did in the first three seasons was wrong, which IMO it wasn't (except for Lucious and the tumour)

[marimba26]

The nice days must have been very early on. I arrived in the midst of the first shipper war. SWI? People were calling Weir/TH old and ugly and getting away with it. Granted that person and her socks are gone now but it took several years I believe to get rid of them no matter how much we complained. Then she was replaced by someone so vile the whole forum was tainted for another couple of years. Actually right now there are fewer really crazy (my description) posters than since I came here. I have actual friends in that other ship.

I came in during the mid-S7 hiatus. I had looked in here a little before that but during Christmas that year, I got hooked (thank you, broadband). And I bailed right as things got really nasty with the other group. I posted infrequently for a while after that but I've been almost completely gone for a couple of years now (except for the con threads). I wish I could say I had friends on the other side of this one (I always did on the other side of SG-1) and I did try to keep some of those people as friends--only to have them talk about me in LJ like I was some kind of crazy for liking Sparky. That was always a big WTF thing for me. Why did it have to be life or death to be right to certain people? It didn't and no one "won" in the end. I mean, is it even possible to have good ship with this PTB? Seems like the fanfic writers do it better if what my friends are saying is true.

I love that phrase in bold. Foul niceness. That's my biggest pet peeve also. I can take a good argument. Heck, I love to argue. But the posters who come in here dripping sincerity and tell you your opinion isn't worth anything make me want to puke. You see a lot of that in the general threads. It's always the same people who then go back to their favorite threads and post condescending remarks about shippers or just other fans in general. We're oh so superior and no one can ever aspire to being as perfect as we are. Oh please.

I'm with you. And you've given a spot on description of exactly what has gone on and to my mind, is about 80% of the problem.

That's the whole point. We love/loved SGA. That's why we're here. Just because we're sick hearted about what's been done to it doesn't make us any less wrong than those who think S5 is the bestest evah!OMG!.

But see, TPTB don't want to know what we think. They want us to go away. Elizabeth is dead to them. They think the Sparky shippers and the Torri fans should be gone by now.

Yep, because (sing along now if you know the words...) we are not the target demographic. Nevermind that we are the ones who watch. Nevermind that we are the ones who buy. Nevermind that we make up a sizable portion of the fandom (with the assumption being that most of us here are mature women aged 25-55 or so?). They want teenage boys (which helloooo, are not the folks watching sci-fi for the most part these days...) who they claim have the most disposable income (which is funny considering that my teenagers are completely supported by mommy who is somewhat parsimonious).

So no, they don't care. Nevermind that our faces are the ones they see at cons. Nevermind that it's our money they're happily taking from DVD sales and merchandise. Not to mention the fact that they have never had a woman as a permanent part of their writing staff. Or when was the last time they had a female director? There are certainly no female producers. So I imagine they weren't too happy when Torri tried to have input on her character (she said as much at a con--New Zealand, I think? Kiwigater, are you out there to verify?). And if they don't care what the person they pay thinks, then they certainly don't care what we think.

And may I say our Reiko and marimba26 are doing a great job over there.

Thanks

Nice try but until they tell us to leave, Sparky is alive.

Amen.

[Reiko]

If Shep had hooked up with Teyla after dealing with/realising his feelings for Weir, I'd have been okay with that, because people don't grieve for a dead spouse forever (nobody would ever remarry if that were the case). It'd have to be done well though, and given some of the stuff that has been produced of late, it wouldn't have happened that way

Hee, I see where you're coming from with that gateraid but I have to disagree. with part of this segment of that post. I would never be okay if Sheppard hooked up with Teyla. This has nothing to do with my love of Sparky or C/T. But I could never see Shep with Teyla and thus would never ever be okay with it. On the flip side, I could be okay with John getting with someone else if it was done well. Like Kate. Or Vala. Or Rodney.

But just not Teyla. Noooo, not Teyla, god no! Putting John with Teyla is like putting John with Keller. It doesn't even sound great in theory. Much less in practice. But gah, I can image John and Teyla getting drunk after a night in a village with unlimited rum and then sleeping together but it was so awkward and it was like sleeping with your sister so they just Never. Mention. It. Again. Ewwww!



And yes firing TH was some bad sh*t. And PM. And bringing back PM only do to lip service for the fans. scoundrels.