Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

I've been reading that thread and actually find it amusing. It reminds me of those "how can we make GW better" threads they used to do. The same people saying the same things, claiming total innocence and telling everybody else how to behave when they (at least one of them) are among the worst offenders. And sanctimony abounds OMG! I have a feeling I won't be staying around for the "new world order". We've already experienced recently how this ship is likely to be treated.

Like the ugly redheaded stepsister that's been locked away in a tower.

Smart of you. It will just make you headdesk a lot.

Heh, I was already headdesking just from the little bit I did see.

Also, could someone tell me what this Vision thread thing is? Please spare me of actually looking it up and reading, if my sanity is about to be threatened

Basically, they want to make GW a "kinder, gentler" message board by eliminating the "negativity" that's been growing in the past year or so. They haven't made any final decisions yet on what exactly will be done; they're looking to start trying out all the various changes on the SGU forum first, since it's a new show and they can kind of start from scratch. The Character and Relationship forum will not be changed yet, but they are looking to make changes here too, eventually. Someone who's been following things more closely can no doubt give more details.

[Scary Kitty]

WOW I'm sorry I missed so much good discussion while I was away. I blame it on school for keeping me busy (and also sick).

But anyway I was FINALLY finishing up my Christmas shopping today and I heard this song playing (*silent thank you to the store for not playing awful Christmas music*) and it immediately made me think of Sparky. Wouldn't this make a great vid for John with the show winding down?

Spoiler:

Just yesterday morning they let me know you were gone
Susanne the plans they made put an end to you
I walked out this morning and I wrote down this song
I just can't remember who to send it to

I've seen fire and I've seen rain
I've seen sunny days that I thought would never end
I've seen lonely times when I could not find a friend
But I always thought that I'd see you again

Won't you look down upon me, Jesus
You've got to help me make a stand
You've just got to see me through another day
My body's aching and my time is at hand
And I won't make it any other way

Oh, I've seen fire and I've seen rain
I've seen sunny days that I thought would never end
I've seen lonely times when I could not find a friend
But I always thought that I'd see you again

Been walking my mind to an easy time my back turned towards the sun
Lord knows when the cold wind blows it'll turn your head around
Well, there's hours of time on the telephone line to talk about things
to come
Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground

Oh, I've seen fire and I've seen rain
I've seen sunny days that I thought would never end
I've seen lonely times when I could not find a friend
But I always thought that I'd see you, baby, one more time again, now

Thought I'd see you one more time again
There's just a few things coming my way this time around, now
Thought I'd see you, thought I'd see you fire and rain, now

I feel kind of stupid because apparently it's a pretty famous song and I swear I've never heard it before. LOL

Oh, wow! That is an awesome song, and yes, it really does fit John and Sparky where they stand right now. *wibbles*

[Anuna]

Like the ugly redheaded stepsister that's been locked away in a tower.

Heh, I was already headdesking just from the little bit I did see.

Basically, they want to make GW a "kinder, gentler" message board by eliminating the "negativity" that's been growing in the past year or so. They haven't made any final decisions yet on what exactly will be done; they're looking to start trying out all the various changes on the SGU forum first, since it's a new show and they can kind of start from scratch. The Character and Relationship forum will not be changed yet, but they are looking to make changes here too, eventually. Someone who's been following things more closely can no doubt give more details.

You know, I'm thinking about starting a sparky forum, should we be banished from this one.

One thing is certain, this place will never be kind in general. It's futile labor, if you ask me, it's mean by default, and there will always be someone who'll want to complain about something, that's in human nature. If they start filtering complaints and criticism it will soon end in censorship, and then there's no point in having a forum if everyone has to agree.

[Southern Red]

Weirdly enough, I actually came back here to take a look at that thread when I read about it on LJ. I figured since it was the old-timers who he was talking about, I should pipe up. And one post led to another and then I came over to check this place out again and voila...more posts in the last three days than in the last two years. I'm still not watching the show (though I might give Outcast and GitM a try this week while I'm off) but I can't seem to stay away. As frustrating as the Vision thread can be, I think I'm having more fun here than I've had in ages.

And we are tickled pink to have you back.

Also, could someone tell me what this Vision thread thing is? Please spare me of actually looking it up and reading, if my sanity is about to be threatened

In a few words, once the new vision statement is rolled out it means we are all going to be happy whether we like it or not. Oh, criticism is welcome if it's of the positive and nice variety but we must find something we like. Strictly my interpretation of course.

And it's their forum and they can do whatever they want with it. Ultimately I think they want to get rid of anyone who can't accept things like they are. Which of course they have the right to do.

WOW I'm sorry I missed so much good discussion while I was away. I blame it on school for keeping me busy (and also sick).

But anyway I was FINALLY finishing up my Christmas shopping today and I heard this song playing (*silent thank you to the store for not playing awful Christmas music*) and it immediately made me think of Sparky. Wouldn't this make a great vid for John with the show winding down?

Spoiler:

Just yesterday morning they let me know you were gone
Susanne the plans they made put an end to you
I walked out this morning and I wrote down this song
I just can't remember who to send it to

I've seen fire and I've seen rain
I've seen sunny days that I thought would never end
I've seen lonely times when I could not find a friend
But I always thought that I'd see you again

Won't you look down upon me, Jesus
You've got to help me make a stand
You've just got to see me through another day
My body's aching and my time is at hand
And I won't make it any other way

Oh, I've seen fire and I've seen rain
I've seen sunny days that I thought would never end
I've seen lonely times when I could not find a friend
But I always thought that I'd see you again

Been walking my mind to an easy time my back turned towards the sun
Lord knows when the cold wind blows it'll turn your head around
Well, there's hours of time on the telephone line to talk about things
to come
Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground

Oh, I've seen fire and I've seen rain
I've seen sunny days that I thought would never end
I've seen lonely times when I could not find a friend
But I always thought that I'd see you, baby, one more time again, now

Thought I'd see you one more time again
There's just a few things coming my way this time around, now
Thought I'd see you, thought I'd see you fire and rain, now

I feel kind of stupid because apparently it's a pretty famous song and I swear I've never heard it before. LOL

Oh dear. I have that song on an LP. Somewhere in a box in my basement. And also on my iTunes. It was very very famous when I was in college. James Taylor is from North Carolina and supposedly wrote it about his experiences in rehab, the psychiatric hospital and about a girl who killed herself. Or so they said.

[marimba26]

You know, I'm thinking about starting a sparky forum, should we be banished from this one.

One thing is certain, this place will never be kind in general. It's futile labor, if you ask me, it's mean by default, and there will always be someone who'll want to complain about something, that's in human nature. If they start filtering complaints and criticism it will soon end in censorship, and then there's no point in having a forum if everyone has to agree.

GW actually used to be kind of nice. It used to be the only thing shippers had to worry about was the occasional drive-by poster who wanted to stir up some crap. Then the post would get reported en masse and the mods would come in, delete the post and thwap that person. Of course, those drive-bys usually weren't other shippers who felt threatened. We left them to their threads and they left us to ours. And a wonderful community developed, much as it did in this thread.

And then something changed.

As the forum got bigger, people got bolder and more willing to push the boundaries. And certain groups who shall remain nameless *cough* took to attacking others while still managing to stay just inside the rules. No more "live and let live" philosophy just outright nastiness. Many here tried to stay on the moral high ground by ignoring those other groups but the others felt threatened and couldn't leave it alone. If this Vision statement is implemented effectively, it could be a way to get back that safe place to play that so many shippers (like myself) want. Personally, I just want to ship Sparky with the occasional side order of Joe thunk and enjoy myself without the harassment from folks who are so insecure that they have to go attack others to make themselves feel better. And hopefully this new vision of Darren's can make that happen. And if it gets me the chance to ship Sparky in peace, then I'm all for it.

And if not, I guess we'll just have to find a new place to play.

[marimba26]

I'm so happy to see you here. And Killdeer too, and Ncc. But as far as I can tell you're an old time sparky and I can't tell you how happy I am to see you here. I'm happy that someone who was there at the very beginning is still here and still having fun.

There's only few of us that come here at daily basis and we are having fun indeed - stay around! The more the merrier!

Also, guys, I made my very first brownies today! They turned out yummy!

Yup, Sparky from "The Eye". I was thinking maybe before that, but when he grabbed her hand and they ran up the stairs together, I was there.

Yummy, Brownies! *wishes forum were less virtual...*

[Reiko]

I came to GW in the midst of hostility of S4 (been lurking since about March though) so I never knew here as a serene, calm place.

Yeah, especially with SGA ending I just want to be left alone with Sparky and still be able to voice my complaints when needed...

[Scary Kitty]

You know, I'm thinking about starting a sparky forum, should we be banished from this one.

We could also move to the Sheppard/Weir comm, as a lot of us are already on LJ. Most of the posts over there now are fics and fanart; that's not a bad thing, but it would be nice to have some more discussion of the pairing like we have here. If we do get pushed out of GW, it would be a great opportunity to bring that sort of interaction to the comm.

One thing is certain, this place will never be kind in general. It's futile labor, if you ask me, it's mean by default, and there will always be someone who'll want to complain about something, that's in human nature. If they start filtering complaints and criticism it will soon end in censorship, and then there's no point in having a forum if everyone has to agree.

*snorts* It's already devolved to censorship. And there's also no point to having a forum if you drive too many of the people who used to come to it. It seems to me (and I could be wrong) that a huge chunk of the posts and member time on GW is spent in the Characters & Relationships forum; if that gets changed significantly for enough of the fans participating, the howls of outrage will be deafening.

GW actually used to be kind of nice. It used to be the only thing shippers had to worry about was the occasional drive-by poster who wanted to stir up some crap. Then the post would get reported en masse and the mods would come in, delete the post and thwap that person. Of course, those drive-bys usually weren't other shippers who felt threatened. We left them to their threads and they left us to ours. And a wonderful community developed, much as it did in this thread.

And then something changed.

As the forum got bigger, people got bolder and more willing to push the boundaries. And certain groups who shall remain nameless *cough* took to attacking others while still managing to stay just inside the rules. No more "live and let live" philosophy just outright nastiness. Many here tried to stay on the moral high ground by ignoring those other groups but the others felt threatened and couldn't leave it alone. If this Vision statement is implemented effectively, it could be a way to get back that safe place to play that so many shippers (like myself) want. Personally, I just want to ship Sparky with the occasional side order of Joe thunk and enjoy myself without the harassment from folks who are so insecure that they have to go attack others to make themselves feel better. And hopefully this new vision of Darren's can make that happen. And if it gets me the chance to ship Sparky in peace, then I'm all for it.

And if not, I guess we'll just have to find a new place to play.

Not to mention, petty scheming, padding post counts with off-topic nonsense while crying foul on opposing on-topic posts that they felt threatened by, etc. The extent to which some went just to make themselves look more important is appalling.

Like you (and, I think, all of us here), I just want a peaceful place to have fun with Sparky. A part of me hopes that this plan does achieve its idealistic goal without sacrificing posters' right to freely express their opinions. If it happens, that's great! But I've had hopes dashed in pretty cruel fashion before, so I'm not going to sit around without a contingency plan. If the house of cards falls, there will definitely be some friendlier place for us to go, whether it be on LJ or an alternative forum.

[Replicator Fifth]

This thread DOES exist!!!! yay! *happy*

[Scary Kitty]

This thread DOES exist!!!! yay! *happy*

Hello and welcome to one of the few sane threads left on GW!

[Reiko]

there will definitely be some friendlier place for us to go, whether it be on LJ or an alternative forum.

Stargate IOA. It's not very active but Jackie started it and it's free speech galore.

[Anuna]

Re the vision - oh, I can play nice *hides fangs, claws and horns* It's just that I get really nasty when people come waving around with foul niceness. SR taught me well.

I actually never came to GW looking for trouble. I've been to other forums and I know how the game is played, treat people nicely, say what you think, don't troll, stay on topic, respect the rules. I'm not one of those people who has to break the rules just because. I can display admirable mature behavior, but what I hate are backstabbing little games, and what dragged my nastiness in the open, I think, were the people (most of them from a certain group, and we know which group that is) who were gloating about TH getting fired.

Disliking a ship is one thing, being happy about a real person losing a job is another matter.

And while I'm at it, let me say this too - I'm not happy about JM and the rest losing jobs. I don't like them or what they did, but I still consider them people and hope they will find themselves a job (and do it better than SGA). I wish they did a better job with this show we all like. Also, I wish they never had a chance ruining something we enjoyed so much, I think I can be resentful about that, and happy I won't have to stand it any more.

[Anuna]

This thread DOES exist!!!! yay! *happy*

Welcome!

Hello and welcome to one of the few sane threads left on GW!

Whom are you calling "sane"? Lol.

[Anuna]

We could also move to the Sheppard/Weir comm, as a lot of us are already on LJ. Most of the posts over there now are fics and fanart; that's not a bad thing, but it would be nice to have some more discussion of the pairing like we have here. If we do get pushed out of GW, it would be a great opportunity to bring that sort of interaction to the comm.

<snippety snip>

Like you (and, I think, all of us here), I just want a peaceful place to have fun with Sparky. A part of me hopes that this plan does achieve its idealistic goal without sacrificing posters' right to freely express their opinions. If it happens, that's great! But I've had hopes dashed in pretty cruel fashion before, so I'm not going to sit around without a contingency plan. If the house of cards falls, there will definitely be some friendlier place for us to go, whether it be on LJ or an alternative forum.

Ditto. If the place turns friendly, why wouldn't we stay, if we're still welcome? And if I'm not mistaken this thread is among bigger threads in C&R. Also, it's the only thread I visit, so it's the sole reason for me being on this forum - if someone decides to get it closed, I won't be coming back here.

Also, good idea about J7E comm - I just hope the mods would be open to discussion?

[Scary Kitty]

Re the vision - oh, I can play nice *hides fangs, claws and horns* It's just that I get really nasty when people come waving around with foul niceness. SR taught me well.

I actually never came to GW looking for trouble. I've been to other forums and I know how the game is played, treat people nicely, say what you think, don't troll, stay on topic, respect the rules. I'm not one of those people who has to break the rules just because. I can display admirable mature behavior, but what I hate are backstabbing little games, and what dragged my nastiness in the open, I think, were the people (most of them from a certain group, and we know which group that is) who were gloating about TH getting fired.

Disliking a ship is one thing, being happy about a real person losing a job is another matter.

I'm the same way... both about proper forum behavior (I've been online for nearly 15 years, so I know how to behave myself), and about how petty nastiness from a few bad apples who are left to run amok unchecked can piss off even those who are normally very polite.

That last bit I highlighted says it all. The fact that anyone can just gloat about something like that, and that those in charge never called them on what was clearly a case of actor-bashing, is disgusting. And it's one of the reasons why I'm not holding my breath waiting for this new plan for GW to work.

And while I'm at it, let me say this too - I'm not happy about JM and the rest losing jobs. I don't like them or what they did, but I still consider them people and hope they will find themselves a job (and do it better than SGA). I wish they did a better job with this show we all like. Also, I wish they never had a chance ruining something we enjoyed so much, I think I can be resentful about that, and happy I won't have to stand it any more.

I agree. On the one hand, I'm glad that I won't have to watch a show that I used to love be ruined on a weekly basis any more; on the other hand, I really wish that they had been able to correct their mistakes and keep the show on the air longer. I think we all would've been far happier with that outcome, Pros and Antis alike. It's a shame that they've lost out, but the producers, film crew and other behind-the-scenes people still have SGU to fall back on; it's the cast that's really SOL. And it's a damn shame that it had to happen the way it did.