Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

*nods* Yeah, I've always figured that John had gone the ROTC route, even before we got to see Outcast. He's just too laid-back for a really straight-laced school like the Academy, and with his apparent black sheep status in his family, going ROTC seems even more likely.



The only thing with that is... don't you have to be a college graduate (at least a B.A.) to get into officer training? So he'd have to have stuck it out, wouldn't he? Or could he have gotten by with an equivalency test? Hmmm...



Yeah, the laundry list of stuff that John can fly that he rattles off to O'Neill in Rising is insane. The only explanation I can come up with (and that other fans have also gone with) is that John was in Special Ops prior to the Afghanistan fiasco and getting punted to Antarctica. He got the crazy training because if he found himself behind enemy lines trying to get people out, there's no telling what he might have access to. Yes, that's very shaky logic, but then, remember who came up with that background in the first place. We all know TPTW aren't exactly known for their logic.



And then we never really get to see them in action on a consistent basis like we should have. Made of fail, TPTW!

You don't have to have a degree to be an officer. You can enlist and come up through the ranks but it takes longer. John seems very well educated.

And on the pilot training. He could conceivably do all that but he'd be about 60 years old. lol Training on each aircraft takes months plus you periodically have to be retested. And switching back and forth from jets to choppers just would be a tangled mess. It may have happened but is unlikely. I found this excellent site that explains it all. I don't think he could have done all they claim he can do in one lifetime. lol

pilot training

[Wormhole]

Okay, time I started using my LiveJournal probably and catch up with everyone. Anyone got any good tips how to spice it up with a good sparky background?. Think I've passed the beginners stage now.

http://pegasus-1.livejournal.com/

[Eri13]

The Real World, Part II

Elizabeth is resting comfortably at home (with a very cute wardrobe--I believe some of it was Torri's own) and gets a surprise visit from Jack again, this time as he's walking by her house. I appreciate the use of Richard Dean Anderson in this episode, especially as we get some interesting exposition here--we find out Elizabeth taught Poly Sci at Georgetown (though I think she actually was doing this during her introductory episode "The Lost City" on SG-1) and that she was popular at the UN. Not surprising, but nicely reinforced.





Everything's getting back to normal for Elizabeth. Or so she thinks. This is where the fun begins to us, as big reveal number one comes--as we all knew from the beginning suspected--this is just a dream, and our Elizabeth is sick--lying in a coma in the Atlantis infirmary, with the ever watchful (and very worried) John Sheppard by her side.

Suddenly, the man pressing against the walls of Elizabeth's hospital room make sense...


Can I just say I love her pajamas?





Beckett explains the scenario to us--Niam, who had attacked Elizabeth at the end of Progeny, shed some Replicator nanites into her (how did no one else get infected?). They've now begun to replicate an an alarming rate--we're told later that it's only been hours since she fell ill.

Looking at the medical side of things, to Beckett they're a virus or bacteria that Elizabeth's immune system isn't effectively fighting off. What's interesting here are the small steps John starts taking to figuring out the problem. He seems to be one step ahead of Beckett in understanding what's going on:

BECKETT: In a Petri dish, her white blood cells attacked individual nanites as though they were a bacterium or a virus, quite successfully, but for some reason inside her body, there's almost no immune response whatsoever. It's as if the nanites themselves have convinced her immune system that they pose no threat.
SHEPPARD: How do they do that?
BECKETT: I have no idea. I've begun administering drugs to help boost her immunities.
SHEPPARD (looking at the scan): Doesn't seem to be working.
BECKETT: Not yet. I've just increased the dosage. For the moment, we're losing this battle.

Back in her version of 'the real world', Elizabeth is prepping to negotiation non-proliferation. We see Jack once more (he sure gets around in this world) and another familiarity--recognize the suit?

And we get another reference to how little Elizabeth knows about sports. *headdesk*





And now...let the Sparky really begin. The next scene is one of my all-time favorites--it's John seated next to Elizabeth's bed, while Carson and Rodney try to figure out how to cure whatever Elizabeth has in the background.

The important part for us, of course, is that John is there and quite obviously not going anywhere. What's unique about The Real World is that, because it's not action-based--this isn't John trying to rescue anyone with a P-90--we see the side of him that is strong in a more subdued way. He's been by Elizabeth's side since she was infected--we know this because he keeps showing up in her dream world--and he's not planning on leaving her. He's the only character to talk to her. And Beckett recognizes, perhaps, his connection to her--he encourages John to try to reach her.

The Spark here, of course, is that she hears him--it causes her to hallucinate for a moment, and leads to her tossing her pills away. The implication is, John is the only thing keeping her from losing touch with reality completely.

SHEPPARD: These, these nanites, I don't know what they're putting you through, I don't know what they're doing to you, but ... don't let `em get to you...we're doing everything we can to bring you back, but you've got to do your part. You've gotta fight this.
ELIZABETH'S BATHROOM. Elizabeth picks up the pills and tosses them down the toilet. She opens a second bottle of pills, empties the contents into the toilet, then flushes it.

John's reaching out to her causes Elizabeth to doubt herself in her subconscious--and sets off a series of reactions that end up with her committed back into Willoughby. John's words have enough effect to begin her slow climb out of the replicator trap.









Coming up...Elizabeth finds her way back to the Real World, and Sparky in canon!

[Reiko]

So John's probably grown up all over the place.

Like, maybe Vancouver? I'd see that he can cross paths with his friends (and Keller) anytime. Lorne, obviously. Elizabeth, sure. Keller, sure, but he had no interest in her of course.

I'll be on when I get home, since I have actual work to do now (hee!) But a bit OT, because I have to complain about this 'Twilight' book series (that I have tried to read but couldn't get through it because it sucked and the main character is a Keller clone) that is apparently the latest thing since sliced bread for not just preteen girls but people of all ages. But some of these fangirls are insane. Any experiences with them?

I mean, this girl in my Lit class asked if I had read them before, and I said I tried, and from there she went on and on and on ...

And I was all, "HELP ME."

[Eri13]

The Real World, Part III

A frustrated Elizabeth wants to know what's really going on...as Carson experiences a 'Rodney' moment (one of the series' best lines is found here

McKAY: Well, it's that look. That's the same look *I* get when I have a brilliant idea.
SHEPPARD: How would you know how you looked?
McKAY: `Cause it's happened more than once in front of a mirror, OK?

Beckett figures that the nanites--originally programmed to fight off the Wraith--need something to attack. Implanting a little Wraith tissue in Elizabeth's system might force the nanites to stop assimilating her and focus on one part of her body--allowing them to blast the nanites with an EMP.





I wasn't too much a fan, technically, of the sequencing here--as Beckett inserts the tissue, Elizabeth begins to see her Solitaire game turn into Stargate symbols. I understood that it was supposed to correlate, but it wasn't as dramatic as I would have liked. With the EMP being so powerful, it would have been more impactful had something shaken her world. But, well, it's a minor complaint.







The effect of the EMP causes Elizabeth to feel more secure about her belief in the Stargate. She appeals to Fletcher and O'Neill that SGC is real. Her insistence costs her--she is finally seen as a threat, and is forcefully restrained.







The effect in Elizabeth's mind is a direct reaction to the nanites being affected by the EMP--they sense the aggressiveness Atlantis has taken and have begun replicating an a rapid rate, seemingly to deal the final blow to Elizabeth and assimilate her completely.

But John hasn't given up, either, and he's got it figured out--Elizabeth's fighting for her life in a dream world. They can still help her. The others in the group are skeptical--but again, here's that Sparky strength we know--John is not. He immediately begins the fight for her outside her mind, encouraging her to battle back.

And she hears him.

BECKETT: I can increase the oxygen levels in her blood, give her a little more time, but, yes – she's on her own.

SHEPPARD: No. She's not. (He turns, walks over to the tent and looks in at Elizabeth.) You're not alone, Elizabeth. We're right here with you. You have to fight this.

John's encouragement boosts Elizabeth's confidence, and she finds herself in a hybrid sort of dream world--present in the SGC when it was impossible to have gotten there, and yet she's still faced with the trials the nanites put before her.

And here we get the Sparky connection at it's best--and why I believe it's canonized. As Elizabeth reaches a breaking point--a handful of Marines pointing P-90s pointed at her, and Jack O'Neill blocking her way--John makes a desperate final attempt to reach her. Beckett believes she's lost--but not John.

BECKETT: They've begun to spread faster. We're losing her.
SHEPPARD: Not yet we're not. (Too fast for anyone to stop him, he moves to the isolation tent and unzips it.)
McKAY: What're you doing?
(John hurries over to the bed and puts both his hands on Elizabeth's arm.)
McKAY: What, are you crazy? She could infect you!

For me, this is it--the moment. John has not been panicky throughout, but the insanity of this moment--putting everything on the line to make sure he gets through to her--just speaks volumes to me. There is no 'thought' involved here--just the desperate act to save her. If you step back for a moment, if you realize what he's doing, you can see just how desperate it is. He's endangering himself--the other acting head of Atlantis. In way that may not be curable--Elizabeth hasn't come out of the coma yet. Without backup, in a manner that might endanger the rest of the team outside the isolation unit--but John's not thinking of any of that. He just wants to save her. And what makes it stand out most--because Elizabeth isn't there to hammer this out with him, to approve his actions, it's just John, acting on pure instinct--acting with his heart.







This whole episode puts Sparky into canon for me. There's never a mention of 'feelings', but for me there doesn't have to be. Would John have done this for others? Maybe. In an action situation, he is impulsive--but I can't think of too many times he's this reckless. In this case, Elizabeth isn't there as a guidepost for him to talk about it with, and we know that's what he does with others--reflective in how he acted in regards to Ford, and Ronon, when they were in danger. He generally consults with Elizabeth, prepares, finds a way to win. Here, he's just acting without a thought to anything else.

The second difference to any of those situations, and perhaps what sets this truly apart, is the return. It's not just John who reacts--it's Elizabeth who responds. She hears him. She sees him. She listens to him. He saves her. She sees him there, and she responds to his presence, follows him through the danger. John being there is the final bit of courage she needed to overcome her fears and walk back through the Stargate.

Now step back and ask yourself...'why?' Because he's giving her good advice as her second in command?





Even Niam, when he reappears at the end, acknowledges that John had an impact. And Elizabeth responds right back, with her own strength of mind, that she knows the true answer. She conquers the nanites, and returns to the real world.









Coming up...A final scene.

[Eri13]

Like, maybe Vancouver? I'd see that he can cross paths with his friends (and Keller) anytime. Lorne, obviously. Elizabeth, sure. Keller, sure, but he had no interest in her of course.

I'll be on when I get home, since I have actual work to do now (hee!) But a bit OT, because I have to complain about this 'Twilight' book series (that I have tried to read but couldn't get through it because it sucked and the main character is a Keller clone) that is apparently the latest thing since sliced bread for not just preteen girls but people of all ages. But some of these fangirls are insane. Any experiences with them?

I mean, this girl in my Lit class asked if I had read them before, and I said I tried, and from there she went on and on and on ...

And I was all, "HELP ME."

Heeeee...I actually read the series. I actually loved "Twilight". I was turned off by books 2 and 3, though 4 is actually pretty good. Stephanie Meyer has talent, but after a while her story got too overblown and the protagonist just whined TOO much. But I loved Edward.

[Eri13]

The Real World, Part IV

Elizabeth is fine...returned to her friends after 5 hours of being in a coma. Just 5 hours, we learn.

We get a very sweet final scene, with John coming to check on Elizabeth to see how she is. The best thing here--though Elizabeth is subdued and obviously distressed--do you see the spring in John's step? He looks like he's been handed the world. (Maybe he has).

Their conversation is foreshadowing in a sense, of course--Elizabeth mentions the insidiousness of the nanites, which will be reflected in certain feelings they both have about them in season 4. John replies 'let's take it as a win for now' (for now *sigh*).

But, putting that aside, the scene is a good wrap-up to the episode. Elizabeth and John both feel perfectly in character--she is still bothered by all the things she went through; he is just happy to have her back, so much so he tries to lighten things up, perhaps a little too quickly. Her gentle "John...don't" to him sort of tickles me, as does the sparkle in his eye as he's being chastized. Nothing can take him off the high. It's rather cute.



















Overall, The Real World is one of my favorite episodes because it tells a good story, gives Torri a chance to really explore and have fun with her character (and do a little action, too) and, most importantly for me, demonstrates just how closely these two are connected. We point out those moments in every episode that have a twinge of Sparky, and maybe sometimes wonder if we are wearing Sparky shades. Here, as with every set of moments, you can generally see two sides, but the actions of John and Elizabeth don't really need to be rose-tinted here. They are connected--and even if you wanted to go for a platonic argument here, you can't deny the strength of that connection. It's obviously very strong. They find each other through a subconscious link, and it's the only thing that saves Elizabeth's life. The way Binder writes this, had John not been there, Elizabeth would have been lost.

I do own a pair of brightly tinted rose-colored glasses, however, and I see it as more than platonic; I see it as two people who impossibly--and perhaps subconsciously--care. That's perhaps the best thing about The Real World--it's playing with the subconscious mind and subliminal feelings, and is perhaps telling two sides to that story, too. With the exception of one minor blip in the radar, which we'll get to a few episodes down the line, for me this story continues to play out in canon through "Ghost in the Machine".

Real World is an episode I'll never get tired of--and it remains on my iPod to this day, alongside "The Storm" to watch whenever I need a little Sparky goodness.

What did you think? What were your feelings about "The Real World"? How did you react when you first saw it?

[Ruined_puzzle]

What did you think? What were your feelings about "The Real World"? How did you react when you first saw it?

I was scared when it first aired. I knew it was supposed to be an Elizabeth episode and something about John giving Elizabeth emotional support but I didn't know what tptb definition of "emotional support" meant. So I tried to keep my expectations low.

Basically after I watched this episode I declared it a love story to John/Elizabeth. I mean this is Stargate and they don't do outright ship (unless it's this season) I mean sure there were moments in the past were people could see ship were they wanted but this episode wasn't just a moment it was the whole episode. Everything was about John and Elizabeth and their connection. It was absolutely fantastic. I actually didn't expect John to break quarantine for Elizabeth, I honestly didn't see the point and I didn't think tptb would go there because it was just so based on pure hope. Hope that Elizabeth was fighting and nothing else, hope and belief that Elizabeth could hear him. It really had nothing to do with strategy and usually when John risks his life he knows that he may die but he is sure that he will save someone in the process or at least there's a calculated scientific chance. Really there was nothing he could do but he still chose to risk his life knowing that it could have been the end for him and Elizabeth.

[Southern Red]

I was scared when it first aired. I knew it was supposed to be an Elizabeth episode and something about John giving Elizabeth emotional support but I didn't know what tptb definition of "emotional support" meant. So I tried to keep my expectations low.

Basically after I watched this episode I declared it a love story to John/Elizabeth. I mean this is Stargate and they don't do outright ship (unless it's this season) I mean sure there were moments in the past were people could see ship were they wanted but this episode wasn't just a moment it was the whole episode. Everything was about John and Elizabeth and their connection. It was absolutely fantastic. I actually didn't expect John to break quarantine for Elizabeth, I honestly didn't see the point and I didn't think tptb would go there because it was just so based on pure hope. Hope that Elizabeth was fighting and nothing else, hope and belief that Elizabeth could hear him. It really had nothing to do with strategy and usually when John risks his life he knows that he may die but he is sure that he will save someone in the process or at least there's a calculated scientific chance. Really there was nothing he could do but he still chose to risk his life knowing that it could have been the end for him and Elizabeth.

I felt exactly the same way. I even went so far as saying that the shadowy figure we saw in the promo wasn't John. I never thought they'd show such a blatant connection between them. I was happy to be wrong. And then after this why they didn't continue it will always remain a mystery.

[Pajus]

You don't have to have a degree to be an officer. You can enlist and come up through the ranks but it takes longer. John seems very well educated.

And on the pilot training. He could conceivably do all that but he'd be about 60 years old. lol Training on each aircraft takes months plus you periodically have to be retested. And switching back and forth from jets to choppers just would be a tangled mess. It may have happened but is unlikely. I found this excellent site that explains it all. I don't think he could have done all they claim he can do in one lifetime. lol

pilot training

In other words: He's like Keller

[Scary Kitty]

Well, what do you know? I've still got internet access, for the moment. *knocks on wood*

So, The Real World.

Think back to Season 1's Hide and Seek and how John got the team together to watch a football game. Remember how he tried to explain the concept of the Hail Mary (in football) to Teyla?

To me, The Real World is Sparky's Hail Mary. (Though, in light of subsequent developments, perhaps it's more accurate to call TRW the first in a string of Hail Marys throughout the Asuran Replicator storyline...) This is where everything comes to a head and John must put everything he knows on the line to save Elizabeth. And Elizabeth, in turn, must put everything she thinks she knows on the line to solve the mystery that's holding her prisoner in her own mind and save herself.

The fact that John was the only one who talked to her, the only one to reach out to her, felt like a parallel to Elizabeth being the only one to go see John during his transformation in Conversion. She held onto hope for his sake back then; now he has to do the same for her here. She also endangered herself by going to see him; he could've easily killed her. And he placed himself in just as much danger when he broke quarantine to reach her.

I'm with Ruined_puzzle and Southern Red about my reaction; I was certainly nervous about the situation Elizabeth found herself in and didn't know what to think of the shadowy figure at first, either. By this time in watching the series, I had already come to like the developments in John and Elizabeth's working relationship and how they seemed to be good friends, and when I first saw the figure with it's really obvious black shirt, I thought, "Is that John?" The fact that he appeared in such a scary way in Elizabeth's mind threw me for a bit of a loop. I was relieved when I realized it had to be the way the nanites were distorting the way he appeared to her, and that meant that he had to be the key to her getting out of there. Looking back, I'm kind of surprised that John and Elizabeth's connection was made so blatantly obvious in TRW. But I'll take it gladly.

[Reiko]

What did you think? What were your feelings about "The Real World"? How did you react when you first saw it?

It's always been one of my favourites. Torri did an excellent job in this, the directing and technical aspects were good, and of course, it has Sparky.

'nuff said.

[Anuna]

I'll add my thoughts on TRW some time later, when I catch more time... I need you guys to explain something to me. What's ROTC?

[Reiko]

I'll add my thoughts on TRW some time later, when I catch more time... I need you guys to explain something to me. What's ROTC?

I have no idea what ROTC is, though I've heard of it before. I think it's some kind of academic club if I'm correct.

Yeah, there are probably better people to ask about this than me.

EDIT: Wiki article should help - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROTC

[Anuna]

I'm waiting for SR to tell me, she knows

Anyway, a thought before I leave. TRW? The shippiest episode ever, because nobody got this kind of saving by John. Not even Google and Rescue was like this because there was entire team and hello, saving the galaxy? The way John makes a risk to save Elizabeth makes this episode and their connection outstanding and something different than connections he shares with other characters. And it's a slap in the face to people who call sparky non existing and not canon.