Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

Page 2?!? That's not right!

Have anyone noticed ever since Elizabeth left that John has been a bit boring because he lost that spark? That spark that made him what he was during s1-s3. So what I'm saying is that Elizabeth's assumed death affected him in a huge way, so it's actually shown on screen and it's still showing in s5.

We've certainly noticed. The bounce in his step, his playful little grin... they're all gone. He still smiles, but it seems more like a grimace rather than playful, and it never reaches his eyes. Speaking of eyes...

Definitely so. His eyes look sad. He will never be the same again and I think nothing they do will bring the old John back.

Sad John pic:

Spoiler:

Yup. He's been acting like a widower ever since Adrift.

This is where my strategy of keeping what's worth it kicks in: in my version of SGA, canon ends with Return pt. 2, but Tao, Echoes and Submersion happened before Return. Of course in my version of Submersion Carson is still alive and waiting for the gang to come back to Atlantis.

I add Vengeance to that, too. They got themselves knocked around a bit, and I can see Carson fussing over them in the infirmary afterwards... and then Elizabeth dragging John back to their quarters...

[Anuna]

You know what folks? We should definitely bring Elizabeth back to John. Are you for another game of 100 ways?

We could even do little drabbles or something. God knows I need something warm and happy.

[Anuna]

Best way to get you going is to start the game. So here I go. 100 ways Elizabeth returns to John.

1) Elizabeth ascends after Lifeline and de - ascends. John has to borrow her his jacket and well he doesn't want anyone see her until he gets his hands on more, um, clothes).

[Reiko]

When do we get some more Keller Death stories from you?

» Yay, motivation! (Well, there's always motivation, but it helps kick the muse in)

And they continue to use Torri/Elizabeth *headdesk* Hey guys if you really want to use Elizabeth JUST APOLOGIZE AND BRING HER BACK.

FULL TIME. And somewhat related, in talking about Woolsey "replacing" Carter, Gero reiterated that bringing in Robert Picardo was pretty much their first choice when Tapping decided to focus her time on Sanctuary. They had a golden opportunity to bring Torri back for a bigger role and didn't even consider it.

» I was actually getting my hopes up when Tapping left to work on Sanctuary. And then, OMGWTFwhataboutTORRI. Man, I was grumpy, but it's amusing to see them use her for their promos and such. Oh, Skiffy, you realise it, TPTB never knew. I heard that if you really want change to happen, you're going to have to do some serious pushing with the network - unless they are pressured, TPTB pretty much do anything.

Game!

Best way to get you going is to start the game. So here I go. 100 ways Elizabeth returns to John.

1) Elizabeth ascends after Lifeline and de - ascends. John has to borrow her his jacket and well he doesn't want anyone see her until he gets his hands on more, um, clothes).
2) Elizabeth is thrown 10,000 years into the feature (post-"This Mortal Coil") to discover she is the only human left alive, save John and co., and prevent a future that went horribly wrong. (Didn't see TLM, don't care to, but I have this unique little dream that "The Last Man" was really a women. Hee.)

[Ruined_puzzle]

Spoiler:

Yeah, JoeF has been pretty blunt in his comments in the past about not wanting things to turn into a soap opera, so I can well imagine that he wouldn't like to be stuck playing out that kind of scenario with Sheppard.

Interestingly enough, even Gero seemed a little, I dunno, not terribly enthused about it. Searching for something to say that was sufficiently vague enough to not piss anyone off, but still putting the matter to the side. Are TPTB getting Sheyla burnout? Heh. I would be so amused if that were the case...

Spoiler:

I think, I hope they realized that they wrote themselves into a corner by having Teyla be pregnant. They already get so much criticism from fans that they don't know how to write women, which I think is justified. I think they finally realized that if they just dropped Teyla's baby or Kanaan into a black hole people would be like WTF see we knew they couldn't write women well. They got rid of Weir and Sam and now they are ignoring Teyla. I also hope that they realized that writing Shep and Teyla at this point would be too soap operish, and would take a lot more effort than they were capable off for it to not come out like a soap opera. No one would come out looking good if they went Shep and Teyla this season. This is Stargate Atlantis not BSG or Doctor Who or Farscape the kind of relationship with Shep and Teyla would work in those other shows but not on Stargate Atlantis because stargate doesn't do that, they don't explore the characters like they should. Plot comes first and then the characters. Shep and Teyla would require too much time and TPTB know that they show isn't about them. Well at least I hope

The thing is that they had a perfect couple already in the show with Shep/Weir that didn't require for them to go the extra mile. All they needed to do was keep the same interaction and people would buy that they fell in love. They are made of stupid.

Have anyone noticed ever since Elizabeth left that John has been a bit boring because he lost that spark? That spark that made him what he was during s1-s3. So what I'm saying is that Elizabeth's assumed death affected him in a huge way, so it's actually shown on screen and it's still showing in s5.

I think this has to do with the fact that he has no one to interact with like he interacted with Elizabeth. He doesn't have the same chemistry or relationship he had with Elizabeth with anyone. They can try to make Shep and Teyla act like John and Elizabeth but it doesn't work. (I'm not saying that they are) I mean John and Elizabeth flirted with each other, Elizabeth made fun of John and he went all "omg bbq" when shed did, they actually talked. Through Elizabeth we saw dorky, flirty, genuine, caring, comforting, teasing John all in one. I think this is why I like sparky so much. They made each other better, they brought out sides of each other that no one else could. Sure John can be caring, and teasing towards Rodney but he isn't going to flirt with him. Same with Teyla he isn't going to flirt with her, he hasn't done that with her since s1. With Elizabeth it took time to get where they were to the stage where they were able to tease each other, flirt with each other and comfort each other. I think that's why I love them they were realistic. It just wasn't omg super duper instant special connection. Their relationship had a realistic growth.

Definitely so. His eyes look sad. He will never be the same again and I think nothing they do will bring the old John back.

Sad John pic:

Spoiler:

Sad John is sad.

Best way to get you going is to start the game. So here I go. 100 ways Elizabeth returns to John.

1) Elizabeth ascends after Lifeline and de - ascends. John has to borrow her his jacket and well he doesn't want anyone see her until he gets his hands on more, um, clothes).

2. John encounters Elizabeth on a planet sometime during s6(cause that will be that last season) she also had ascended but couldn't contact Atlantis because they moved.

[Reiko]

» Torri Interview!: Video and Transcript.

» God, I love this woman! And she thinks Elizabeth should have ASCENDED!

» Small sad snippet:

Spoiler:

Looking back at the 4th season of Atlantis, what do you miss the most?
The people, I miss the people, I miss going, you know it was like going to what has become your family, you spend so much time with them. I miss the hair makeup people, I miss having our chat in the morning and then the jokes with the sound department during the day and uh, and just the energy of so many different types of personalities that they all melt together in a great harmony, so yeah I miss that.

That was the hardest thing to leave?
Yeah, that was the hardest thing to leave.

» She also acknowledges the SEW.

[Anuna]

I think this has to do with the fact that he has no one to interact with like he interacted with Elizabeth. He doesn't have the same chemistry or relationship he had with Elizabeth with anyone. They can try to make Shep and Teyla act like John and Elizabeth but it doesn't work. (I'm not saying that they are) I mean John and Elizabeth flirted with each other, Elizabeth made fun of John and he went all "omg bbq" when shed did, they actually talked. Through Elizabeth we saw dorky, flirty, genuine, caring, comforting, teasing John all in one. I think this is why I like sparky so much. They made each other better, they brought out sides of each other that no one else could. Sure John can be caring, and teasing towards Rodney but he isn't going to flirt with him. Same with Teyla he isn't going to flirt with her, he hasn't done that with her since s1. With Elizabeth it took time to get where they were to the stage where they were able to tease each other, flirt with each other and comfort each other. I think that's why I love them they were realistic. It just wasn't omg super duper instant special connection. Their relationship had a realistic growth.


2. John encounters Elizabeth on a planet sometime during s6(cause that will be that last season) she also had ascended but couldn't contact Atlantis because they moved.

You said it, sister. This is why I believed sparky over anything else too. There was that instant spark of attraction but the real connection took time to grow and develop and when it did they were perfect. How did SR described it? Like a well oiled machine? The chemistry between them is effortless. And what I also like - it's about two equally strong, smart, caring people who share same values and walk through life together. That's what true love is about. I'm sick of those star struck or is it star crossed lovers who are destined to meet but not to be with each other. Please. Drop Romeo and Juliet. Sometimes you don't have time to hold hands and say mushy things. Life isn't all roses. The best you can do is help out and care for that person you love. John will never have that with anyone.

I need to write fanfic.

[Anuna]

» Torri Interview!: Video and Transcript.

» God, I love this woman! And she thinks Elizabeth should have ASCENDED!

» Small sad snippet:

Spoiler:

Looking back at the 4th season of Atlantis, what do you miss the most?
The people, I miss the people, I miss going, you know it was like going to what has become your family, you spend so much time with them. I miss the hair makeup people, I miss having our chat in the morning and then the jokes with the sound department during the day and uh, and just the energy of so many different types of personalities that they all melt together in a great harmony, so yeah I miss that.

That was the hardest thing to leave?
Yeah, that was the hardest thing to leave.

» She also acknowledges the SEW.

GRRRR.

Anuna, go write fanfic. Yes, yes, go write fanfic.

OMG I sound like Gollum. O____o

[Anuna]

A post before I go to sleep. Want some ficlets? *grin* I don't think I posted these here. There was a fic battle on LJ community and there were many prompts and I used three. So here you go, three ficlets.

Ficlets

First one is written for John & Teyla friendship prompt ("hope") but essentially it's a sparky thing. Angst, S4, set after Outcast, hankie warning. The second one is Sunday fathers based and thir one is baby fic fluff. Enjoy!

Good night!

[Ruined_puzzle]

» Torri Interview!: Video and Transcript.

» God, I love this woman! And she thinks Elizabeth should have ASCENDED!

» Small sad snippet:

Spoiler:

Looking back at the 4th season of Atlantis, what do you miss the most?
The people, I miss the people, I miss going, you know it was like going to what has become your family, you spend so much time with them. I miss the hair makeup people, I miss having our chat in the morning and then the jokes with the sound department during the day and uh, and just the energy of so many different types of personalities that they all melt together in a great harmony, so yeah I miss that.

That was the hardest thing to leave?
Yeah, that was the hardest thing to leave.

» She also acknowledges the SEW.

Aww, iz sad.

Do you think that's what Torri wanted and tptb said no to ascension?

[Scary Kitty]

Spoiler:

I think, I hope they realized that they wrote themselves into a corner by having Teyla be pregnant. They already get so much criticism from fans that they don't know how to write women, which I think is justified. I think they finally realized that if they just dropped Teyla's baby or Kanaan into a black hole people would be like WTF see we knew they couldn't write women well. They got rid of Weir and Sam and now they are ignoring Teyla. I also hope that they realized that writing Shep and Teyla at this point would be too soap operish, and would take a lot more effort than they were capable off for it to not come out like a soap opera. No one would come out looking good if they went Shep and Teyla this season. This is Stargate Atlantis not BSG or Doctor Who or Farscape the kind of relationship with Shep and Teyla would work in those other shows but not on Stargate Atlantis because stargate doesn't do that, they don't explore the characters like they should. Plot comes first and then the characters. Shep and Teyla would require too much time and TPTB know that they show isn't about them. Well at least I hope

The thing is that they had a perfect couple already in the show with Shep/Weir that didn't require for them to go the extra mile. All they needed to do was keep the same interaction and people would buy that they fell in love. They are made of stupid.

Spoiler:

I don't think they intentionally wrote themselves into a corner with Teyla's pregnancy; Rachel was pregnant in real life, she was going to be very visibly pregnant through most of S4, and they had to find a way to deal with it. Hiding Rachel behind desks and plants when her character is normally so active wouldn't have worked at all. But the story they came up with for her... while it had potential to be something really cool, it never delivered on that potential. Just like how they never delivered on all the potential built into Elizabeth from the very beginning, and then dumped her in the garbage when the character went in a different direction than what they had planned. Or how they totally spazzed out on Carter and turned her into a wallflower. And don't get me started on Keller. They just don't follow through on anything. In a roundabout way, that actually gives me some hope that Sheyla will never happen.

[Southern Red]

Have anyone noticed ever since Elizabeth left that John has been a bit boring because he lost that spark? That spark that made him what he was during s1-s3. So what I'm saying is that Elizabeth's assumed death affected him in a huge way, so it's actually shown on screen and it's still showing in s5.

Yes I've noticed that and so have a lot of other people. Some who aren't even shippers say he seems subdued and the general consensus was in S&R

Spoiler:

that if Torri had been available, it would have been her instead of Ford in that scene.

Even on other forums I've seen this idea. There has been lots of praise for JF's acting, but they say John seems much more low key.

[Scary Kitty]

Aww, iz sad.

Do you think that's what Torri wanted and tptb said no to ascension?

Mallozzi was asked on his blog last year about the possibility of Weir ascending; back then, he said no. But I'm still hoping that with Torri turning down GitM and forcing them to end the storyline here (yet still leave it open to her return), they will have reconsidered.

[Scary Kitty]

Okay Sparkies, it's fic rec time again!

For this week's Sparky!Family day, I present:

Marked, by MsRaven. Set in early Season 1 (yay old skool!), Sheppard is taken prisoner by a group of female warriors who will only turn him over to his rightful owner.

Happy reading!

[Ruined_puzzle]

Spoiler:

I don't think they intentionally wrote themselves into a corner with Teyla's pregnancy; Rachel was pregnant in real life, she was going to be very visibly pregnant through most of S4, and they had to find a way to deal with it. Hiding Rachel behind desks and plants when her character is normally so active wouldn't have worked at all. But the story they came up with for her... while it had potential to be something really cool, it never delivered on that potential. Just like how they never delivered on all the potential built into Elizabeth from the very beginning, and then dumped her in the garbage when the character went in a different direction than what they had planned. Or how they totally spazzed out on Carter and turned her into a wallflower. And don't get me started on Keller. They just don't follow through on anything. In a roundabout way, that actually gives me some hope that Sheyla will never happen.

Spoiler:

Okay not intentionally but if they never would have fired Torri they still would have had two female characters to play with. I think probably the only reason they made Teyla be pregnant was because she was the only full time female character. If they would had her be kidnapped or lessened her screen time people would have *****ed and called them sexist. What with dropping Torri and all. They could have had Torri and Amanda and Rachel. All they needed to do was not fire Torri. Elizabeth could have been part of team Shep, that would have been an interesting take on her character, Sam could have still been in charge of Atlantis and they could have had Teyla be kidnapped until Rachel had her bb. They could have milked sheyla all they wanted if they chose to but I doubt they would have since it seems not all the writers are pro sheyla. So in the end they kind of killed their own ship by getting rid of Torri.

They screwed themselves. LOL.

I just think that with most shows a baby kind of kills a ship. More than death. At least in sci-fi they can always be brought back. But to have the person you intended to ship with the lead have a baby with another man that is just too much soap opera for some people. It's not good storytelling (unless you are planning some sort of arc or the show itself focuses on these characters)and kind of kills the ship. Sure shippers can try to justify it but in the end the writers chose to have her be pregnant and imo there is no going back. They can still do sheyla but it will be the most horrible ship in the history of stargate because of that reason. Before at least in my eyes while unbearable Shep and Teyla would have been an blah ship BUT now it becomes cheap. If it was sparky I would have still shipped them because I'm loyal like that but it would have destroyed the ship for me. At least with sparky it stayed perfect in my eyes.

Yes I've noticed that and so have a lot of other people. Some who aren't even shippers say he seems subdued and the general consensus was in S&R

Spoiler:

that if Torri had been available, it would have been her instead of Ford in that scene.

Even on other forums I've seen this idea. There has been lots of praise for JF's acting, but they say John seems much more low key.

I've seen that too. I think I read on some website that it felt

Spoiler:

false, like tptb really wanted Elizabeth to be there because while Ford was important to John, he chose his own destiny. I thought John had made peace with that. Elizabeth was more recent and would have made more sense. But in a way I think it worked to not have Elizabeth because it made the dream more wtf and that is exactly how I chose to view it.

Mallozzi was asked on his blog last year about the possibility of Weir ascending; back then, he said no. But I'm still hoping that with Torri turning down GitM and forcing them to end the storyline here (yet still leave it open to her return), they will have reconsidered.

*hopes like woe*