Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[belanna30]

I loved "Arms Wide Open" what a great way to start my Memorial Day!

I have an AU idea for you. Maybe it's been done (I can't say I've read EVERY piece of Sparky fanfic, but I can say I've read at least 80% of it posted on fanfiction.net)...

So, I'm thinking you take a page out of the Stargate SG-1 Book. Something happens with an experiment that they need help from an alternate dimension. We send a message asking for help and this alternate AU responds.

In this story, we can have Carter leading Atlantis from the beginning, but Elizabeth and John are members of SGA-1. Maybe you go to a five man team, maybe you push Teyla onto Lorne's team (I'm starting to think they would be uber cute together as a couple anyway).

So, when Elizabeth is in charge of the civies and John the military and they both have someone they have to answer to do sparks fly? The best part is at the end they could meet up with the characters as we know them and then you can get the actual characters thoughts on meeting the ones from the other world.

I know, I know, very similar to other stories, but you said you wanted ideas!

[wizengamot]

but elizabeth is mean in the crucible. they have a very complicated relationship.

here are some AU's

Spygate: A Stargate Spy AU: http://community.livejournal.com/spygate/profile
Shermer High: A Stargate High School AU: http://community.livejournal.com/shermer_high/profile
Langford U: University AU (john and Elizabeth are teachers) http://community.livejournal.com/langford_u/profile
Stargate Renaissance: http://community.livejournal.com/stargate_ren/profile
West Gate: Stargate/West wing crossover: http://community.livejournal.com/west_gate/profile (love this one, you dont really need to be that versed in west wing)

those are the ones I can think of.

[Anuna]

I will check them out, and I can't wait for summer vacation to start - I can enjoy many books and fics...

In the meantime... here comes my crazy idea. keep in mind I heaven't read all Sparky fic there is, and there are many people here who have a lot of fandom experience.. nevermind, here is the idea.

Elizabeth is Doctor of biology, and she is specialized in animals, more precisely big mammals. She and her team (yes this time SHE has a team) are involved in an international program of studying and preserving various animal species. Her team includes: Rodney McKay (his function is to get various technology working - like those radio - collars you put on wolves to track them), Doctor Radek Zelenka, another biologist; Doctor Carson Beckett (he is doc for humans and back up veterinarian); Laura Cadman (another biologist who works on her Ph.d) and Kate Brown (botanist who helps out a lot).
This version of Elizabeth is very *very* passionate about her work, and altough she teaches at university and has a fiancee (Simon!) who wants her to be respected as a scholar and a lady; she is not happy when she is away from field work and some kind of mission where the team has to find and relocate a group of animals for example. She is pretty wild, or at least that is her reputation; and likes to be free, and Simon constantly tries to "tame" her by making her more "civilized".
There is new task for her team, which takes her to South America and Elizabeth needs an addition to her team - a pilot. (guess whom!).
John Sheppard is an ex military member, now working for the same (still nameless) organization Elizabeth works for, but he is stationed in another part of the world (say, North Pole). He gets transferred to her team and decides to join them with some reluctance. Ronon and Teyla get into this story too, but later; as do other SG characters. I need to work this out better; this is just the basic idea. Don't steal it!!

[SazZat]

Really liking that idea Anuna


Anyway, completely changing the subject (ignore me if this gets in the way ). I was just thinking (a very dangerous past time of mine) about some things that have been said in the last couple of days on here about how little things that make Sparky seem so obvious. Like the fact that everyone presumes that when Lorne said to Elizabeth "Don't Worry. We'll find him," that he was referring to Shep, and not Rodney or Ronon. So from that I'm just interested:

Does anyone believe in that Sparky is actually considered canon now, even if it’s never actually been specifically stated that it is?

BGs comment earlier about ‘why does it have to be so obvious’ just made me think of it. Just thought it would be good to get some views on it. There are obviously people who are always going to deny it is there, but sometimes there comes a point I think where it can’t be denied, but only ignored.

I’m just thinking, I’m not a Jack/Sam shipper…actually I really don’t like it, but I pretty much accept it is canon or has been canon at some point even if there is no confirmation. I think when non-shippers of a couple start seeing it, something is seriously going on there.

Do we think that Sparky is at that level yet where even non-shippers and casual fans are seeing the ship and accepting/expecting it to have foundations to go somewhere more?

I'll be back with my input later, but there are the questions for anyone who is lurking about now

[Anuna]

Answering the question number one: I'm rewatching 2Hot Zone" at this very moment (and I decided to stop by here). Few minutes ago there was that exchange:

E: "I can't chance you getting infected"
J: "I can't chance you getting infected! bates? Unlock the gym!"

Few moments later, while putting hazmats on, teyla reprimands John for breaking Elizabeth's order and implies that two of them are basically the same in the way they react.

(And yes, Dana, I've got a pretty good idea whet to do with these little details.)

What I meant to say, it's pretty obvious because they are oriented towards each other so much. There are moments like this one, or that one in "Condemned" where you can almost get the impression everybody else, from Lorne to members of Team Shep, know about the special connection between the two leaders.

*needs to rewatch season one, like now*

@Saz - Thank you! I'm pretty sure I'll write that AU.

[Pocus]

Really liking that idea Anuna


Anyway, completely changing the subject (ignore me if this gets in the way ). I was just thinking (a very dangerous past time of mine) about some things that have been said in the last couple of days on here about how little things that make Sparky seem so obvious. Like the fact that everyone presumes that when Lorne said to Elizabeth "Don't Worry. We'll find him," that he was referring to Shep, and not Rodney or Ronon. So from that I'm just interested:

Does anyone believe in that Sparky is actually considered canon now, even if it’s never actually been specifically stated that it is?

BGs comment earlier about ‘why does it have to be so obvious’ just made me think of it. Just thought it would be good to get some views on it. There are obviously people who are always going to deny it is there, but sometimes there comes a point I think where it can’t be denied, but only ignored.

I’m just thinking, I’m not a Jack/Sam shipper…actually I really don’t like it, but I pretty much accept it is canon or has been canon at some point even if there is no confirmation. I think when non-shippers of a couple start seeing it, something is seriously going on there.

Do we think that Sparky is at that level yet where even non-shippers and casual fans are seeing the ship and accepting/expecting it to have foundations to go somewhere more?

I'll be back with my input later, but there are the questions for anyone who is lurking about now

Good questions! I do believe though that "obvious" is in the eye of the beholder. What one person sees as a reference to Sparky, someone else either misses it completely or makes their own inference.

The "hug" is a great one for me to see the differences in opinons. It was an "obvious" action between the two characters. We about died over it and capped it frame by frame to see the change in his expression and analysed his feelings and her motivations. Reading through the ep thread, some people commented on his look as wanting it to end quickly, being squicked out over being touched, wondering what the heck she was doing and other negative thoughts. Our "obvious moment" was someone else's fodder for "there is nothing between the two"

Some people may see a basis for more to happen, but still others see nothing between the two. My hubby is a casual fan and he does not see anything between Sheppard and Elizabeth other than two leaders who work well together. He sees a good friendship but not a deep friendship. and he saw S/J before I did.

I like the John/Elizabeth "Spark" but some of the moments people point out on this thread, I don't see as in depth as others. Some of them I go "doh" how did I miss that on first viewing and others I just don't see.

Moments are moments. To me they are not proof of canon unless it is black and white and no one can deny it. When the casual viewer can say "Wow, he just kissed her before coming out of her room?" then it will be canon. Until then, I will live for the moments that I perceive and the ones people point out on here.

[Blower'sGate]

I like the John/Elizabeth "Spark" but some of the moments people point out on this thread, I don't see as in depth as others. Some of them I go "doh" how did I miss that on first viewing and others I just don't see.

Moments are moments. To me they are not proof of canon unless it is black and white and no one can deny it. When the casual viewer can say "Wow, he just kissed her before coming out of her room?" then it will be canon. Until then, I will live for the moments that I perceive and the ones people point out on here.

*glomps Pocus*

I completely agree with what you said and particularly on these two points. That is why on this thread I seperate the 'Spark' from the exagerated interpretation many of us ( me included ) have on certain moments, I believe these are part of the subtext we shipper see and nothing more. But these moments are still very intriguing : was it TH or JF's idea? Did they act on an impluse? Was it the writers idea? The editors? You never know so, I think that's part of the reason why it's interesting for the crazy shipper to study these moments, even though it is likely we'll never know the answer.

Well, the definition of canon is pretty wide among fandoms. But objectively 'canon' of course means that the ship is happening on screen, meaning TPTB decided to make it canon. The only real proof of canon is when a show end. When you can say: " Oh, my favourite pairing was definitely canon on that show. "

[Kales]

Hmm... ooh how interesting. I don't think we're canon, but I think people - even TPTB - see the connection between them, even on a friendship level.

I can't honestly say I think we're canon, but I've never found that massively important in a ship. Although it is a very interesting question. I don't think the importance of the characters to the other can be denied, but it is in the eye of the beholder.

[Pocus]

*glomps Pocus*

I completely agree with what you said and particularly on these two points. That is why on this thread I seperate the 'Spark' from the exagerated interpretation many of us ( me included ) have on certain moments, I believe these are part of the subtext we shipper see and nothing more. But these moments are still very intriguing : was it TH or JF's idea? Did they act on an impluse? Was it the writers idea? The editors? You never know so, I think that's part of the reason why it's interesting for the crazy shipper to study these moments, even though it is likely we'll never know the answer.

Well, the definition of canon is pretty wide among fandoms. But objectively 'canon' of course means that the ship is happening on screen, meaning TPTB decided to make it canon. The only real proof of canon is when a show end. When you can say: " Oh, my favourite pairing was definitely canon on that show. "

**falls over and bumps head**

Shep: Is that Pocus over there?
ELizabeth: Yup. She got "glomped" by BG.

[Carter1994]

*slides in through the backdoor and says timidly,* Hi. I just wanted to pop in and say that I really like the relationship between Sheppard and Weir, because if they do get together, I will be perfectly fine with, and even a little pleased. If they don't, I may be sightly miffed, but I won't be bawling on the couch, as it twere. I wouldn't say sparks were flying between them, but I have noticed the occational sweet smile or lingering look. Hooray if they join, Ah, well if they don't. But TPTB, please don't put Sheppard with Chaya. Bleh! Or, anyone but Weir.

Just my little two cents. *disappears into the shadows*

[Pocus]

*slides in through the backdoor and says timidly,* Hi. I just wanted to pop in and say that I really like the relationship between Sheppard and Weir, because if they do get together, I will be perfectly fine with, and even a little pleased. If they don't, I may be sightly miffed, but I won't be bawling on the couch, as it twere. I wouldn't say sparks were flying between them, but I have noticed the occational sweet smile or lingering look. Hooray if they join, Ah, well if they don't. But TPTB, please don't put Sheppard with Chaya. Bleh! Or, anyone but Weir.

Just my little two cents. *disappears into the shadows*

Carter. No reason to disappear. Keep on posting.

[atlantis_babe34]

Morning!!

Hmmm im thinking about doing another vid to the song "Friday I'm in love" by The Cure... what do u guys think?

[Kales]

Morning!!

Hmmm im thinking about doing another vid to the song "Friday I'm in love" by The Cure... what do u guys think?

*SQUEEEEEEE!*

I would so love you absoltuely forever I love the Cure so so so so dang it much!!!!!

*deep breath*

And they've got such good shipper songs. Lovesong, Melt With You, Pictures of You, Just Like Heaven, Just Say Yes, Never Enough....

[SazZat]

@ Pocus: Loved your answers. Pretty much agree on all levels. What you said about the hug was interesting. The shippers will see it as shippy, some casuals might see it as shippy and turn into shippers, some people will see it as friendship, others will deny it completely, and then you get the shippers from rival pairings who will analyse it in the same detail as we have but in order to try and prove it meant nothing.
For a Sparky shipper a moment like that I think can be too things: you are already a shipper and it was the biggest most obvious sign so far, or it was one of the moments that caught your eye on the journey to becoming a Sparky shipper.
Me personally, I can't remember what I thought about the hug when I first saw the episode. It was probably one of my 'awww they should so hook up' moments. Hugs are my downfall though. Give me hugs over any other shipper squee moment anyday. Even better than kisses. Hugs are always so intense and emotional
So yeah, I guess it is totally down to how you read things and how you interpret the actions and emotions present.

Hmm... ooh how interesting. I don't think we're canon, but I think people - even TPTB - see the connection between them, even on a friendship level.

I can't honestly say I think we're canon, but I've never found that massively important in a ship. Although it is a very interesting question. I don't think the importance of the characters to the other can be denied, but it is in the eye of the beholder.

Yeah I think that's pretty much where I stand with it as well.
Thing is, so far in the SG universe there has been no canon ship between main characters unless it has been AU (and that includes Daniel/Vala because they are only canon in an AU right now).
So really I think TPTB have always found a way around doing canon. They've always found ways to stick in a bit of Sam/Jack without ever making it proper canon, but because of those moments a lot of people believe it is canon.

I think TPTB do recognise the connection between Sparky, even if it is just on an 'I care for you, you care for me/friendship' thing. I also thing some writers favour it more than others and will maybe imply it a bit more and that is what we as shippers see as the big moments.

Personally, I was never a big shipper in anything. It was only after coming into the fandom again and casually rolling in here that I actually realised I do ship for them, and I didn't even really notice that I did. I saw it was there, would make the odd comment about it and be happy with it.
Once I started posting here I've become and uber-shipper because of all the discussion and reading into the little things. That's made me put on shipper glasses now. There are still moments though that I just don't see as shippy where some people do though. I'm big on friendship as well though so anything between them is good for me. I think they have great chemistry all round.

What makes me always feel secure about this ship though is that I was liking it and noticing it before I even knew all about the craziness of shipping and fandom. So as a casual fan and non-shipper I saw it. Then I've just been brainwashed by everyone in here But then it's a lot of fun being a shipper so it's all good.

I think the problem with the perception of shippers is that people think that you ship a pairing and you aren't open to anything else. It's like once you have a ship that is it. That is all you care about.
But surely that is a load of rubbish? No one just ships for the sake of it do they? Like I said, if there was nothing between Sparky then I wouldn't have noticed it and I wouldn't be shipping it.
It's all good saying shippyness is in the eye of the beholder, but there has to be something to spark that shipper becoming a shipper for that pairing in the first place

But anyway. Rambled and almost started ranting. Not good. It's all interesting though.

[atlantis_babe34]

Oh I know!!!... i'm also trying to work n a Stereophonics song as well