Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Blower'sGate]

I think he said yes to Jack bc logically he knew it would have been extremely stupid to say 'no' knowing his career was likely going nowhere. But he also knew that he still has time to think about it and drop out if he decided that's what he wanted to do. I think he was content in Antarctica but content isn't always enough, especially when given the chance to actually live again (which is what he got in Atlantis; being able to go in the field and do something pro-active rather than just ferrying people to and from).

I also think he had nothing to loose. That he just had discovered something completely new and a nice brunette . His life on earth seemed to be about being "stuck" in Antartica, work and probably no strings attached ( does he have a family? We still don't know much about his life except ( spoilers for sunday ) :

Spoiler:

he's been married. = YEAY for SPARKY!

.

[Olivia001]

I also think he had nothing to loose. That he just had discovered something completely new and a nice brunette . His life on earth seemed to be about being "stuck" in Antartica, work and probably no strings attached ( does he have a family? We still don't know much about his life except ( spoilers for sunday ) :

Spoiler:

he's been married. = YEAY for SPARKY!

.

Aha Agreed. It had everything nothing to do with a certain brunette

[SallyLizzie]

Aha Agreed. It had everything nothing to do with a certain brunette

Right. Not even that little smirk that crosses his face on hearing her enter the room suggests that.

[Blower'sGate]

Right. Not even that little smirk that crosses his face on hearing her enter the room suggests that.

Spoilers for size.

Spoiler:

J-Hm...



J-I'm definitely not the hell I'm not? gonna like it here.

[Olivia001]

Right. Not even that little smirk that crosses his face on hearing her enter the room suggests that.

Of course not. What would make you think that?

[nogigglingmajor]

.:Hey, guys, this may be unwelcome and/or off topic, and if it is, just tell me, but I have Sparky wallpapers for you all!

.:Sparky Variation 01: 1280 x 800 (Widescreen)




.:Sparky Variation 02: 1280 x 800 (Widescreen)

.:...Can you tell I use a laptop?

Of course they're welcome! This the sparky thread for a reason!

Spoilers for size.

Spoiler:

J-Hm...



J-I'm definitely not the hell I'm not? gonna like it here.

And he definately wasn't the hell he wasn't! checking her out in that scene. Nup.

[SallyLizzie]

Something else I just thought of regarding Elizabeth and relationships on Atlantis.

Intruder/Sunday

Spoiler:

In Sunday, Elizabeth says she makes a rule not to go out with those that work for her, and says she can't date Mike bc it would split her focus. Yet in Intruder she was delighted at the prospect of Simon coming to Atlantis.

So I don't think it's having a relationship in Atlantis that bothers her, but the actual 'dating' part that comes inbetween.

Elizabeth already knew Simon, just like she knows Rodney and Teyla and oh yeah, some bloke called John. But she didn't really know Mike which meant she'd have to take the time to get to know him - and that would split her focus, bc when trying to get to know someone, you don't want to talking about work all the time. So during the day she would be switching from Dr. Weir, the strong and serious leader of Atlantis, to Elizabeth, the flirty woman who has let her guard down, and back and forth. Something which could be quite jarring and could get in the way of her command.

But those different personalities don't exist when you're in a stable relationship bc you know you've accepted each other for who you both are, so you don't have to put on an act any longer.

And that's the great thing about her and John! They already know the real 'John' and 'Elizabeth'. To John, there's no big difference between Elizabeth and Dr. Weir, and vice versa. They're already that close that when they do officially hook up, it would be a strong, steady relationship anyway, imo.

[dana]

*delurks*

Just wanted to share a mini-movie icon, spoilers for Common Ground:

Spoiler:

[Blower'sGate]

Something else I just thought of regarding Elizabeth and relationships on Atlantis.

Intruder/Sunday

Spoiler:

In Sunday, Elizabeth says she makes a rule not to go out with those that work for her, and says she can't date Mike bc it would split her focus. Yet in Intruder she was delighted at the prospect of Simon coming to Atlantis.

So I don't think it's having a relationship in Atlantis that bothers her, but the actual 'dating' part that comes inbetween.

Elizabeth already knew Simon, just like she knows Rodney and Teyla and oh yeah, some bloke called John. But she didn't really know Mike which meant she'd have to take the time to get to know him - and that would split her focus, bc when trying to get to know someone, you don't want to talking about work all the time. So during the day she would be switching from Dr. Weir, the strong and serious leader of Atlantis, to Elizabeth, the flirty woman who has let her guard down, and back and forth. Something which could be quite jarring and could get in the way of her command.

But those different personalities don't exist when you're in a stable relationship bc you know you've accepted each other for who you both are, so you don't have to put on an act any longer.

And that's the great thing about her and John! They already know the real 'John' and 'Elizabeth'. To John, there's no big difference between Elizabeth and Dr. Weir, and vice versa. They're already that close that when they do officially hook up, it would be a strong, steady relationship anyway, imo.

Sometimes you sound so smart (j/jk), I just don't get it. Do you have a sixth sense.

Regarding what you said :

Spoiler:

That's a very good point! I had never thought about that until you mentioned it. She was in a relationship with Simon and like you said, she was willing to be his superior while staying in a relationship with him in Intruder. Whereas with Mike, she'd have had to build something with him that would have ultimately split her focus and she probably thought that due to their working relationship, that is strictly professional, it wouldn't last because they weren't friends first.

That said, we all know that Atlantis is a small community. Then, on the contrary, she has John who's not only her 2IC, but her friend. Their relationship is closer ( has bigger bond) work-wise and friendship-wise. There's some sort of stability here. Something she couldn't have with any other member of the expedition. Yes the relationship in its whole would be steadier, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't argue a lot. I think there's a conflictual side to it that would be quite interesting for the writers to explore. No relationship's perfect afterall but utlimately they'd come through it, bc of that steadiness.

And considering they eventually hook up in s4 episode 1, 2 ? Damn' you and your predictions. *g*

[SazZat]

Sometimes you sound so smart (j/jk), I just don't get it. Do you have a sixth sense.

Regarding what you said :

Spoiler:

That's a very good point! I had never thought about that until you mentioned it. She was in a relationship with Simon and like you said, she was willing to be his superior while staying in a relationship with him in Intruder. Whereas with Mike, she'd have had to build something with him that would have ultimately split her focus and she probably thought that due to their working relationship, that is strictly professional, it wouldn't last because they weren't friends first.

That said, we all know that Atlantis is a small community. Then, on the contrary, she has John who's not only her 2IC, but her friend. Their relationship is closer ( has bigger bond) work-wise and friendship-wise. There's some sort of stability here. Something she couldn't have with any other member of the expedition. Yes the relationship in its whole would be steadier, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't argue a lot. I think there's a conflictual side to it that would be quite interesting for the writers to explore. No relationship's perfect afterall but utlimately they'd come through it, bc of that steadiness.

And considering they eventually hook up in s4 episode 1, 2 ? Damn' you and your predictions. *g*

I've never thought of it that way either (about what SL put) and it does make perfect sense.

I think this can be backed up in Sunday (and spoilers for s4)

Spoiler:

When Elizabeth and Mike are talking about movies and it leads to what they think about relationships,

BRANTON: Ah, Now... Does that mean that-- that you don't believe that men and women can be friends.
WEIR: I never said that.
BRANTON: You don't have to say it. Any lady that likes When Harry Met Sally that much thinks men and women can't be friends.
WEIR: Fine. Maybe I do.

And ya know, in my opinion the whole time she is on the 'date' with Mike it doesn't feel naturally. When she went to speak with Teyla she seemed to find it very awkward about going to lunch with him in the first place...I don't know. I don't think some people are suited for the whole dating thing and I got that impression from Elizabeth in that episode. She needs to already feel a connection with someone, to feel comfortable with them, before she can relax enough to perhaps go further and enjoy a proper relationship.
This is why her and Shep could work. They already know and trust each other so well. They understand each other I think beyond any other two characters understanding of each other in Atlantis. They have the great friendship. That's all solid foundations for a possible relationship.
And as we can see from the bit of transcript above, we know how Elizabeth feels about men and women being friends and she can't deny that her and John are friends, so basically that says that at some stage she would have to consider John to become possibly more than a friend. It seems the only thing holding her back is that she is his boss. Next season though, she won't be his boss

[SallyLizzie]

Their relationship is closer ( has bigger bond) work-wise and friendship-wise. There's some sort of stability here. Yes the relationship in its whole would be steadier, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't argue a lot.

Oh, I totally agree. Like you said, no relationship is perfect, and I think that war/peace conflict will always exist between them. But they would be able to cope with that through learning how best to deal with each other when that conflict arises (something they already know to a large degree).

I think what makes them so strong is that the social and work aspects of their relationship are one of the same.

And it was 4x04 Although I don't think she's actually in that ep so alas, turns out my predictions suck, lol

Spoiler:

When she went to speak with Teyla she seemed to find it very awkward about going to lunch with him in the first place...

Sunday

Spoiler:

I totally got the sense she was looking for a way out -- "Are you sure?" -- and that she was very nervous about the whole thing. I don't think she was wary of Mike in particular, rather the situation. You're right, there was an awkardness to it and I think it's bc Elizabeth felt so out fof place.

Given how career focussed her resume would have you believe she is, I doubt she's the type of woman to go looking for Mr Right, so going on a date with someone she doesn't really know would seem alien to her. (Plus, it's not very professional for the leader to go 'testing' men out to see if they are the right guy, and however unjust it may be, it's appears much worse if the leader is a woman).

[Anuna]

and I think that war/peace conflict will always exist between them.

Remember that book he brought to Pegazus? Yeah, the big one he can't seem to finish reading - what was it again? Maybe he wants to try it out

Okay that was my lame attempt at humor.

I thought about what BG said about Sunday/Intruder; and splitting focus issue, and please allow me to try a deeper analysis.
As a psychotherapy student I learned recently that there are few types of people, regarding the basic principles that guide our behavior. I tried to figure out in which of these types John and Elizabeth fit in; it wasn't only fun thing to do, but a good practice for me too. Before I get on with the analysis i'd like to point out that some "types" (there is six of them and people can be "mixed types" too) get along better in personal relationships than others.

After some thought I concluded that John and Elizabeth are the same type - something what's called "be strong" personality. it's more evident in John, and the last night's discussion about him helped me figure this out. remember how he doesn't like connecting to people, scared of deeper personal relationships? Be strong people are wonderful - they are brave, loyal, you can count on them to help you trough anything. They give a lot never asking anything in return bc their deepest fear is being rejected. That is the only thing they can't live with.

We don't know a lot about John's past. We know he reisked his career to save his frineds in battle, and didn't suceed. he gained a black mark in his file, but what hurts him deeper I believe is the fact that he couldn't save those men. Everything you guys wrote about Sunday and FS actually seems to fit in:

Spoiler:

his greatest fear could be that he won't be able to protect/save Elizabeth - in Sunday he learned she isn't safe in Atlantis either. In FS he is helpless at the end.

Being helpless is something he fears greatly, but being denied of love is a much greater fear I think. All of his flings are actually superficial; just flirts and nothing more. There is no real connection between him and all of these women. We know that

Spoiler:

he was married, but we also heard him say/imply that he doesn't have a family. I know that you don't count your ex to be your family, but if she is alive - and there is a good chance she is - why didn't he say goodbye to her? Lot of people keep being at least civilized with each other after the marriege is over. he was leaving Earth after all.
Of course, lot of people don't want to speak with their ex spouses ever again. Be stron people are like that - if the relationship fails, and they end up rejected and hurt, the pain is too great to face it ever again.

"Be strong" people tend to keep a personal distance, and we saw that in John's behavior many times. He tends to joke his way out of some emotionally loaded situations/moments.

Spoiler:

Think of the scene in Return 1 in his room with teyla and Ronon and his awkwardness with words, and "I'm not good in saying good byes" speech.

He has a great devotion to his friends, a great sense of duty - all of that falls neatly into profile. He is not good at expressing his emotions too. He is a generous soul ready to give a lot, but beliefs he is not worthy of recieving from others.

Elizabeth shares lot of these traits, but she is not so deeply into this type of behavior - "be strong" is more prominent in John's personality. But my point here is - they are the same "kind" of people, they function on same wave length, they share a mutual focus - and that is the safety of Atlantis and the expedition. It's a good basis for a relationship; but it wouldn't be without problems. When things start to get bad, "be strong" people don't complain - they endure. John would shut himself out at some point maybe, but Elizabeth is the one who is good with words and also the one who would put an extra effort that would be needed for a relationship to work out. Sure, they would fight a lot - but there are good kind of fights that result in better understanding - remember "Hot Zone". We fight only when we care enough about something/someone.

OMG, even this sequence falls neatly into the profile:

Spoiler:

He looks like he recieved an unexpected gift. I see "Do I deserve this?" written all over his face.

[Anjirika]

.:Hey, guys, this may be unwelcome and/or off topic, and if it is, just tell me, but I have Sparky wallpapers for you all!

.:Sparky Variation 01: 1280 x 800 (Widescreen)




.:Sparky Variation 02: 1280 x 800 (Widescreen)

.:...Can you tell I use a laptop?

Hali- wallpapers are always welcomed and encouraged! Thank you for those! I love 'em!

[QUOTE=Anuna;6661734]@Anjirika - LOL! i can totally imagine that!!![QUOTE]
^_^ Thanks- by the way how's your sparky fic coming? It hasn't been updated for ages!

Something else I just thought of regarding Elizabeth and relationships on Atlantis.

Intruder/Sunday

Spoiler:

In Sunday, Elizabeth says she makes a rule not to go out with those that work for her, and says she can't date Mike bc it would split her focus. Yet in Intruder she was delighted at the prospect of Simon coming to Atlantis.

So I don't think it's having a relationship in Atlantis that bothers her, but the actual 'dating' part that comes inbetween.

Elizabeth already knew Simon, just like she knows Rodney and Teyla and oh yeah, some bloke called John. But she didn't really know Mike which meant she'd have to take the time to get to know him - and that would split her focus, bc when trying to get to know someone, you don't want to talking about work all the time. So during the day she would be switching from Dr. Weir, the strong and serious leader of Atlantis, to Elizabeth, the flirty woman who has let her guard down, and back and forth. Something which could be quite jarring and could get in the way of her command.

But those different personalities don't exist when you're in a stable relationship bc you know you've accepted each other for who you both are, so you don't have to put on an act any longer.

And that's the great thing about her and John! They already know the real 'John' and 'Elizabeth'. To John, there's no big difference between Elizabeth and Dr. Weir, and vice versa. They're already that close that when they do officially hook up, it would be a strong, steady relationship anyway, imo.

Oh so true! I agree 100% with everything you said 'bout Lizzie and John!

Oh, I totally agree. Like you said, no relationship is perfect, and I think that war/peace conflict will always exist between them. But they would be able to cope with that through learning how best to deal with each other when that conflict arises (something they already know to a large degree).

I think what makes them so strong is that the social and work aspects of their relationship are one of the same.

And it was 4x04 Although I don't think she's actually in that ep so alas, turns out my predictions suck, lol

Sunday

Spoiler:

I totally got the sense she was looking for a way out -- "Are you sure?" -- and that she was very nervous about the whole thing. I don't think she was wary of Mike in particular, rather the situation. You're right, there was an awkardness to it and I think it's bc Elizabeth felt so out fof place.

Given how career focussed her resume would have you believe she is, I doubt she's the type of woman to go looking for Mr Right, so going on a date with someone she doesn't really know would seem alien to her. (Plus, it's not very professional for the leader to go 'testing' men out to see if they are the right guy, and however unjust it may be, it's appears much worse if the leader is a woman).

I again agree 100%! Your insights are spot on in my opinion! And I think that is why I hated Sunday so much. I mean first I had an issue with the whole

Spoiler:

Mike being characterized as John

and then later on down the road Lizzie

Spoiler:

tries to get out of the date, but can't. And when she runs into Carson she's all embarrased...

Not the way you want to start things, where as with John things have already started... ^_^

[Anuna]

The things with John are long down the road I'd say!! Their friendship is much more than just friendship up to now!

[Blower'sGate]

Thx Anuna for the analyzis, It's pretty good.

remember "Hot Zone". We fight only when we care enough about something/someone.

True. Not only he wanted the city to be safe again, but Elizabeth as well.