Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Anjirika]

What song is that from?
I reconise it! -.^

It's from the song 'Listen To Your Heart' by Roxette

Or there's the remix version which I absolutely love when they play it at rollerdisco...makes me skate better and faster for some reason

^_^ Saz beat me too it... that's right.

Anyhow Morning all. I have nearly finished my essay *happy dance*

Good luck!

^_^ And I'm here Anuna, I'm here....

[Anuna]

Wow! good to know! I'm writing it right now!!! i was digging trough this thread, trough older posts and found this:

Spoiler:

Along with the comment how he can't keep his eyes away from her even when working.

It made me think of "You're just too good to be true" by Gloria Gaynor. I can see it!!! It would make a great vid!! The eye sex!! The flirt!! *sigh*

[Blower'sGate]

Okay folks, time's up ! This is a discusion thread. Many sparky fans are fed up with how this thread has turned into. We're not on hiatus anymore, we're gonna have

Spoiler:

Lizzie in 4 episodes next season

and that is still something! So, I'm really looking forward to a bunch of sparky moments ( even the invisible ones ). Bc that's what sparky is about. So if you call yourself a sparky shipper than have discussions, debate on all the wonderful moments the episodes allow us to have.

If I remember correctly the next episode is the Arc. So start speculating. Stop being the shipper group that's feeling left out, bc we're not. We're fighters and we've been from the begining. We're the crap, the unwanted ( and probably Rosemary's Baby ).

Many of the great sparky fans we used to have so much fun with have deserted, only bc there's no discussion whatsoever on this thread anymore. It's a discussion thread for Sparky's sake. So discuss, have fun and express the joy sparky brings to you. Stand out for your opinions, critic aspects of the relationship! Do whatever you want but let's follow a certain line here. Reply to others cos that's what forums are for, am I right?

So I'm gonna start speculating on an episode I've already seen just to clear things up.

Spoiler:

HE'S SO CHECKING HER BOOBS OUT AND SHE'S SO LETTING HIM !
-See, their relationship is about common understanding !

And that's why I love to discuss about profound things and pr0n, bc with 'em you mix both. Sparky is my coke and I so don't wanna loose it bc bombs came down on us for the past few months!

[Anuna]

I agree BG, those bombs still make my head hurt on some occasions! I love the pic you posted, but I haven't seen this! But as you pointed ut he definitely is

Spoiler:

checking out her boobs, but I can't agree that she is letting him. She is actally inviting him to do so.

We're fighters, the crap and the unwanted? I feel so damn proud now!

[SallyLizzie]

I haven't seen The Arc and I have no idea what it's about, and therefore my speculation is limited.

However, I will share something about Sunday and Submersion that came up in a convo BG and I just had.

Sunday, Submersion, First Strike

Spoiler:

BG mentioned how she thought Lizzie realised she was too into Shep to even start thinking about dating Mike, and that after that ep came the one with the famous "I'm all yours, Colonel" line.

I never really connected the two until she mentioned it. Elizabeth is very adamant in Sunday that she can't start dating in Atlantis bc it would split her focus, which is something she's unwilling to have happen. Her sole focus must be that of the expedition. Yet in the following episode, she very blatantly flirts with John, and infront of the team. Quite the contradiction.

I realise that Sunday had Carson's untimely death which I initially thought would have reinforced her arguement to Mike, as she was on a date when the bomb went off. But looking further, maybe she realised that life is too short, so she should go for it and be more obvious with those she loves.

I think it shows in First Strike, aswell, bc she doesn't hold anything back from him even though they disagree. She knows he will do it anyway bc he believes it's the right thing to do, which is a trait she has apparantly accepted about him, so she stands by him and let's him get on with it, without making herself an obstacle.

Now I haven't seen Vengeance so I wonder whether the pattern of her being more open with John stands in that ep, too?

[Anuna]

I haven't seen those, so i can't speculate, but I want to say - SL, I like your reasoning and insights. Many of us go off topic and I feel you bring us on track again.
All I can say is that Sparky is something that evolves very naturally. It simply feels right from the moment #1.

[belanna30]

Well, I'm sorry, I can't do much until the show comes on Friday night. I haven't seen the end of Season 3 either.

So, enlighten me?

[Lizabeth]

I haven't seen The Arc and I have no idea what it's about, and therefore my speculation is limited.

However, I will share something about Sunday and Submersion that came up in a convo BG and I just had.

Sunday, Submersion, First Strike

Spoiler:

BG mentioned how she thought Lizzie realised she was too into Shep to even start thinking about dating Mike, and that after that ep came the one with the famous "I'm all yours, Colonel" line.

I never really connected the two until she mentioned it. Elizabeth is very adamant in Sunday that she can't start dating in Atlantis bc it would split her focus, which is something she's unwilling to have happen. Her sole focus must be that of the expedition. Yet in the following episode, she very blatantly flirts with John, and infront of the team. Quite the contradiction.

I realise that Sunday had Carson's untimely death which I initially thought would have reinforced her arguement to Mike, as she was on a date when the bomb went off. But looking further, maybe she realised that life is too short, so she should go for it and be more obvious with those she loves.

I think it shows in First Strike, aswell, bc she doesn't hold anything back from him even though they disagree. She knows he will do it anyway bc he believes it's the right thing to do, which is a trait she has apparantly accepted about him, so she stands by him and let's him get on with it, without making herself an obstacle.

Now I haven't seen Vengeance so I wonder whether the pattern of her being more open with John stands in that ep, too?

A Speculating/analyzing response (Vengeance Spoilers!)

Spoiler:

Vengeance....what happened in that episode again? Oh yeah, the Michael ep. Well, at the beginning John and Elizabeth had clearly figured out all about this mission together before informing John's team about it, if that counts for anything. Elizabeth doesn't even wait for them to be gone that long or for them to dial in before just dialing in herself to check on them. This could be taken as more assertive behavior towards John's well-being. And she sends in back-up even when Ronan doesn't think it's necessary. But John lets her saying "If you feel the need." To which she responds, "I feel the need." So that could be taken as her being extra careful about John, and John understanding her need for it. Or her spidey senses could be tingling. And this episode has another John/Elizabeth end-of-episode office scene, which is just cute. Ok, that's all the speculating I can do for that now, anyone else want to chip in?

[CountryJoy]

A Speculating/analyzing response (Vengeance Spoilers!)

Spoiler:

Vengeance....what happened in that episode again? Oh yeah, the Michael ep. Well, at the beginning John and Elizabeth had clearly figured out all about this mission together before informing John's team about it, if that counts for anything. Elizabeth doesn't even wait for them to be gone that long or for them to dial in before just dialing in herself to check on them. This could be taken as more assertive behavior towards John's well-being. And
she sends in back-up even when Ronan doesn't think it's necessary. But John lets her saying "If you feel the need." To which she responds, "I feel the need." So that could be taken as her being extra careful about John, and John understanding her need for it. Or her spidey senses could be tingling. And this episode has another John/Elizabeth end-of-episode office scene, which is just cute. Ok, that's all the speculating I can do for that now, anyone else want to chip in?

I like what you noticed in "Vengeance".

Spoiler:

Elizabeth's spidey sense! Too funny. Unfortunately, I was incapable of grasping much of this episode, because I went off to Sparkyland upon seeing the very first scene! John and Liz intrude on Ronon and Rodney's training session together and John is ... adjusting his clothes. My shippy brain only has room for one thought at a time, so I was dwelling on this for the entirety of the episode.
See? The adjusting of the wardrobe:

Spoiler:

I was just watching "Echoes" (for the umpteenth time) and I noticed something I hadn't previously --

Spoiler:

Synchronized nose scratching! They're so in tune with each other, they even scratch their noses at precisely the same moment. It's hard to tell just from screencaps, so go watch it! It's at about 28:50 right after
Rodney: 'He' can hear you, you know.
John: Yeah. We know.
Rodney: Okay, let's have a listen.
*synchronized nose scratch*

So what do you think? Is this some secret form of communication between them? Haha, can you imagine if that was actually scripted? I would pay good money for a copy of that page in the screenplay!

[Anuna]

OMG!!! How did I miss that???

Spoiler:

(maybe because I was waiting for that "I'll carry you to the infirmary" scene; and there were so many Shep/Liz scenes in Echoes and this little detail escaped me. It's another case of that lovely mirroring they do so often. It's a small detail but you noticed it very nicley!

I need to rewatch Echoes indeed.

[dana]

I like what you noticed in "Vengeance".

Spoiler:

Elizabeth's spidey sense! Too funny. Unfortunately, I was incapable of grasping much of this episode, because I went off to Sparkyland upon seeing the very first scene! John and Liz intrude on Ronon and Rodney's training session together and John is ... adjusting his clothes. My shippy brain only has room for one thought at a time, so I was dwelling on this for the entirety of the episode.
See? The adjusting of the wardrobe:

Spoiler:

I was just watching "Echoes" (for the umpteenth time) and I noticed something I hadn't previously --

Spoiler:

Synchronized nose scratching! They're so in tune with each other, they even scratch their noses at precisely the same moment. It's hard to tell just from screencaps, so go watch it! It's at about 28:50 right after
Rodney: 'He' can hear you, you know.
John: Yeah. We know.
Rodney: Okay, let's have a listen.
*synchronized nose scratch*

So what do you think? Is this some secret form of communication between them? Haha, can you imagine if that was actually scripted? I would pay good money for a copy of that page in the screenplay!

Damn, I watched Echoes yesterday and didn't notice! *g* Will have to look again...oh the pain...

Spoiler:

I think it's not scripted, I think the actors are doing it unconsciously and the other one just mimicks unconsciously. It's like yawning. (I wrote yawning and promptly yawned. ) Weird little things.

[Anuna]

Yeah it could be like yawning, but I love it! it's cute!!

A notice - dancing fic is almost done. It took an unexpected trun - towards tango But I hope you'll like it. Maybe I'll be able to finish it this evening.

[dana]

Yeah it could be like yawning, but I love it! it's cute!!

A notice - dancing fic is almost done. It took an unexpected trun - towards tango But I hope you'll like it. Maybe I'll be able to finish it this evening.

Yay fic! And did someone say smut before?

And to keep it legal....Cap from Sateda:

Spoiler:

Personal space what?
And notice her staring at his lips.

[SazZat]

I agree with what BG said about actually discussing stuff. I only really feel like posting in here when it's worthwhile, and sometimes there really feels like theres nothing worthwhile to post about.
Seriously, I think s4 could still have great ship moments in it. I feel though that by saying that some people will jump at me and start saying 'how can it be good because of what is going to happen? you are delussional etc etc' *shrug* thats what it feel like sometimes.
There's so much to discuss but sometimes it gets shot down all to quickly and everything goes off topic again.

I've seen in other shipper threads they organise different things to keep the topic fresh and interesting...like games, contests, themes. Maybe if anyone has ideas for things like then they could happen.

I haven't seen The Arc and I have no idea what it's about, and therefore my speculation is limited.

However, I will share something about Sunday and Submersion that came up in a convo BG and I just had.

Sunday, Submersion, First Strike

Spoiler:

BG mentioned how she thought Lizzie realised she was too into Shep to even start thinking about dating Mike, and that after that ep came the one with the famous "I'm all yours, Colonel" line.

I never really connected the two until she mentioned it. Elizabeth is very adamant in Sunday that she can't start dating in Atlantis bc it would split her focus, which is something she's unwilling to have happen. Her sole focus must be that of the expedition. Yet in the following episode, she very blatantly flirts with John, and infront of the team. Quite the contradiction.

I realise that Sunday had Carson's untimely death which I initially thought would have reinforced her arguement to Mike, as she was on a date when the bomb went off. But looking further, maybe she realised that life is too short, so she should go for it and be more obvious with those she loves.

I think it shows in First Strike, aswell, bc she doesn't hold anything back from him even though they disagree. She knows he will do it anyway bc he believes it's the right thing to do, which is a trait she has apparantly accepted about him, so she stands by him and let's him get on with it, without making herself an obstacle.

Now I haven't seen Vengeance so I wonder whether the pattern of her being more open with John stands in that ep, too?

Oooooo Sunday was great for shippy undertones

Spoiler:

The thing about that episode is that we learn so much about relationships but we also really learn nothing at all. We just get subtext clues really.
The scene you mentioned where Elizabeth tells Mike she can't do this and be with him. I loved that scene. When they kissed my mum said something to imply it had doomed Sparky lol and then when Elizabeth pulled away and rejected him I was just like ha! Whatever! The first thing I read into it was that she has just totally realised that she has fallen for Shep. That is what I got out of that scene, and it made me so smiley.

And then the 'I'm all yours' scene in Submersion. I loved that little moment. And also the bit after that when they are splitting into teams to go and explore the platform:


SHEPPARD: All right, let's make up some time. Break into teams. Ronon, you're with Teyla. Elizabeth, you're with me, or I'm with you. However you want to put it.

WEIR: Either [ee-ther] way or either [ahy-ther] way

Such a Freudian Slip moment. Saying one thing and then subconsciously correcting himself but realising it's just made things worse. Digging himself deeper and deeper into a hole. It wouldn't have been so obvious a moment but by adding the 'However you want to put it' just makes it so adorabley awkward. If that doesn't shout underlying feelings to everyone then I don't know what will. Why go to the effort of worrying about how it sounded if it didn't mean anything? Hmm.
So I loved that whole scene.
Oh and if you want to get really subtext about it then you could say Shep's awkwardness was caused by him being completely thrown by the 'I'm all yours Colonel' comment Which is a definite possibility really.

One thing I did notice about Submersion was that for the whole episode Elizabeth has reverted back to surname and rank. The whole episode its 'colonel' and 'Sheppard'. I know we get the flirting as well, but the naming just felt odd, but I do have a sort of theory for this as well.
After realising in Sunday she actually has feelings for him, perhaps this return to being more professional is a way of trying to ignore the realisation that she does have these stronger feelings for him. It's as if she is trying to force herself to believe that she really hasn't become so close to him.
Also it could be something to do with after losing Carson she just thinks it will be easier to distance herself from everyone. It's the reaffirming of the fact that at any moment she could lose someone she really cares for, and she knows that had it been John then it would have been so much harder to deal with.

I haven't seen those, so i can't speculate, but I want to say - SL, I like your reasoning and insights. Many of us go off topic and I feel you bring us on track again.
All I can say is that Sparky is something that evolves very naturally. It simply feels right from the moment #1.

Totally agree. I love how their relationship has progressed slowly. I mean it happened so casually that I didn't actually realise I was a shipper until I came browsing around the fandom and found that things I was noticing where moments that the shippers were raving about. So that's why I like it. I don't like in-your-face unrealistic pushy ships. I like things that take there time...like The Doctor/Rose and Kate/Sawyer my other two ships that I didn't realise I shipped until I thought about it a bit more.

First Strike

Spoiler:

Just want to say about First Strike is that it's a great episode for seeing how far they have come over the last 3 seasons. Take a look at Hot Zone: complete conflict with neither wanting to back down and understand each other, until the last scene where they sort of agree they have to trust and work with each other.
Then compare this to the scene in First Strike

I loved that moment. It shows that even though she doesn't agree with it, she will still put her trust and faith in John. She may not support what they are doing, but she will support him because she trusts him.
At the same time though I think John feels guilty and a little worried that he is disapointing her by going along with the mission, even though he knows he has her personal support. The fact that he went after her to talk about it was already showing that he was a little worried about how Elizabeth would feel about him taking part in the mission. He doesn't want her to feel badly about him. He wants that reassurance from her.
I think she understands that so she does enough to let him know that he does still have her personal support because she trusts him, but she still makes it clear that this doesn't mean she agrees with what they are doing and she is still disapointed that he is going along with it. It's complicated, but one of my favourite scenes from the back half of season 3.

Sorry if I don't make sense in places. I'm sleep deprived and completely whacked. Four days of solid work, forgetting to eat, and 3 hours of sleep per night really aren't great for the health. But party now because I have submitted everything One step closer to summer freedom!! *dance*

[Blower'sGate]

I haven't seen The Arc and I have no idea what it's about, and therefore my speculation is limited.

However, I will share something about Sunday and Submersion that came up in a convo BG and I just had.

Sunday, Submersion, First Strike

Spoiler:

BG mentioned how she thought Lizzie realised she was too into Shep to even start thinking about dating Mike, and that after that ep came the one with the famous "I'm all yours, Colonel" line.

I never really connected the two until she mentioned it. Elizabeth is very adamant in Sunday that she can't start dating in Atlantis bc it would split her focus, which is something she's unwilling to have happen. Her sole focus must be that of the expedition. Yet in the following episode, she very blatantly flirts with John, and infront of the team. Quite the contradiction.

I realise that Sunday had Carson's untimely death which I initially thought would have reinforced her arguement to Mike, as she was on a date when the bomb went off. But looking further, maybe she realised that life is too short, so she should go for it and be more obvious with those she loves.

I think it shows in First Strike, aswell, bc she doesn't hold anything back from him even though they disagree. She knows he will do it anyway bc he believes it's the right thing to do, which is a trait she has apparantly accepted about him, so she stands by him and let's him get on with it, without making herself an obstacle.

Now I haven't seen Vengeance so I wonder whether the pattern of her being more open with John stands in that ep, too?

Spoilers for Sunday, Submersion, Vengeance and First Strike.

Spoiler:

Indeed there's a pattern here. In Sunday she realize that life's too short and that her date with Mike probably wasn't such a bad idea but ultimately she may have been attracted to him, however John seems to stand in the way. And there's this look he gives her by the end of the funerals that's just so enigmatic, and it emphasize the question of where do they stand? Friends? A litle more. And considering John's the one involved here ( remember, there's no Mike around by the end of the episode. ), I think it pretty much indicates that the death of a loved one is too much to let life destroy you, so you have to act on it, and sometimes it doesn't always mean surviving another day in the PG, but building something relationship-wise like they would have done back on earth. Because having a relationship with someone is part of human nature, you need to find the missing part that should complete your life and reinforce your chances of surviving the next day.

Hence the reason why in Submersion, as you adamantly said, the famous "I'm all yours" scene is an indication that they're allowing themselves to flirt a little bit more while on duty and more than that, in public ( Ronon and Teyla being there as well ). Sure, they're trying to brighten up the scene, considering Teyla's just been posessed by a Wraith Submarine Queen (). But the fact that John get Elizabeth's pun is quite stricking really. And considering he goes on with the pun himself, by saying : "Ronon, you're with Teyla, Elizabeth you're with me... or I'm with you, however you wanna put it." rationalize the pun but also invitates her to go on with it.
But no Lizzie doesn't stop there, she answers right back at him : (following John ) "Either [ee-ther] way or either [ahy-ther] way." After that no one can deny the fact that it's clearly sexualy orientated. Also, people were complaining on the fact that she calls him colonel ( especially when sh says : "Put me to work Colonel" ) I think she intentionally calls him colonel to keep some distance while openin' herself for some flirting, and there's some kind of exchange of power here. He's the boss here, she wants him to dominate her. ( OMG, am I turning this simple pun into pr0n!pun... )

At the begining of the episode, we could assume that it was John who convinced her to join them on the mission to explore the underwater lab.
Well, technically he says :"Well... Still glad you came?" and she pretends as if she wasn't paying attention... Somehow, I think he's the one who tricked her into coming on this mission and he's having a good time teasing her on it. But then again, that's how I see it. I can't be sure. And all along the episode, they're very protective of one another.

I won't get into First Strike, cause I have to move on to Vengeance first.

A Speculating/analyzing response (Vengeance Spoilers!)

Spoiler:

Vengeance....what happened in that episode again? Oh yeah, the Michael ep. Well, at the beginning John and Elizabeth had clearly figured out all about this mission together before informing John's team about it, if that counts for anything. Elizabeth doesn't even wait for them to be gone that long or for them to dial in before just dialing in herself to check on them. This could be taken as more assertive behavior towards John's well-being. And she sends in back-up even when Ronan doesn't think it's necessary. But John lets her saying "If you feel the need." To which she responds, "I feel the need." So that could be taken as her being extra careful about John, and John understanding her need for it. Or her spidey senses could be tingling. And this episode has another John/Elizabeth end-of-episode office scene, which is just cute. Ok, that's all the speculating I can do for that now, anyone else want to chip in?

Spoiler:

And here's another pun. It's very subtle, really, but it shows how they want to maintain their relationship strictly professional while spicing it up a bit. That's what I'd call normality. Something they need to open themselves up a little more to. And by the end of the episode, John has to report to Elizabeth on their search for Michael; so far nothing. They're both very concerned on a professional basis, of course. However the fact that Atlantis is on the one hand their work ground and the one other hand their city, it interfers with the process of living. Atlantis is the 'castle' they sworn to defend and sometimes their concern for one another has to be kept aside, for the greater good.

But in First Strike :

Spoiler:

At the begining of the episode, in the "performance evaluations" scene, yet another one of our favourite trio scene, Rodney doesn't want to do these. John comes in from the backdoor into her office : that's where our last play on words of the season starts.
John : "Done"
Lizzie :"Well, that was quick." ( She's somewhat proud of John and take this opportunity to scoff at Rodney ). I won't get into this further bc that would screw up my clean analyzis.

And as SL pointed out :"he believes it's the right thing to do, which is a trait she has apparantly accepted about him, so she stands by him and let's him get on with it, without making herself an obstacle."

Although, she's been patient with him, she knows he's in favour of a military operation, so to me it seems she's trying to understand his views on the situation ( plus we have to take into account that she's dealing alone with personal issues regarding her command and the IOA's views on it. Yet again, he couldn't believe she wouldn't fight back. The rest of the episode revolves around the fact that he's feeling guilty for everything that's happening. A professional issue lead him to understand that what he actually feared the most was to not have her around to command the city, on a personal basis, we know John has trouble expressing himself. When he saw her on the scretcher he wanted to touch her, yet he couldn't. She looked so fragile to him, he was lost. Well, true enough, they're all lost in space.

You know the writers willingly wrote that scene ( the scretcher scene with John being made aware of Lizzie's condition ), that my friends mean tune in for s4