Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

Sorry about quoting this again. Could anybody transcribe the question about Sparky and Joe's answer? I can't catch all the words. Thanks. I'll green ya.

What, do you read minds? I just did this.

You can't hear the question very well. Maybe someone else can fill in the blanks. I got something about "latent sexuality between you and Dr. Weir and heard the words "chemistry" and "developed".

Joe: *big grin* Did you say latent sexuality? *another big grin and a laugh* "Here's my theory on that. I think that you always want that to exist subtextually, but I think that any time it actually manifests itself it ruins the show. With her though... I mean you can have a romantic angle with another actor but with some of the best shows you are always saying to yourself 'Are they going to get together? Are they going to get together?', but if they did get together the show is effectively over. *chuckle, grin, pause* So...uh,uh... I don't expect that to be happening. So. She's a great girl, by the way. She's ...actually, Torri is remarkably personable and very...much sexier off screen than she is on the screen, which is remarkable. So...uh...just thought, you know, I'd tell you that 'cause she's fantastic ...*missed some words here*"

So, that's what I got. Now here's my analysis. First of all, he speaks beautifully. A smart actor, go figure. He missed several chances to say there is no chemistry written between their characters. Generally it sounds like he knows it's there and wants it to stay subtextual. I'd love him to know that a lot of us don't see how she could get better on screen, but I love the way he supports her. Oh, and he thinks she's a girl not his mother. *sarcasm, no extra charge* This is not his usual speech on ship. He's changing veeerrrryyy slowly. Now it sounds like they aren't going to do ship at all.

I was also struck by something else he said last weekend about how there were complaints about lack of banter between Shep and Rodney in S2 and that we'll see more of that in S3. This tells me that they listen to fans and adjust accordingly which makes it even more important that we speak up and keep explaining to them patiently how we think ship should work. The guys all seem to think you are always talking about sex. Upon hearing "latent sexuality" Joe's brain immediately went to that place, as would all men's. We, the shippers, need to explain that we don't mean that. But that's a discussion for another day.

[Athenaktt]

Thanks for the transcribing Southern. Since I've been at work, haven't been able to download any of the convention footage.

Well, it's a good sign that he didn't say "OMG, it's NOT HAPPENING!" like some people tend to report. It's always better to hear from the original source and make your own intepretation. Like you said i don't see it as outrightly saying there's no chemistry or nothing between the two characters. Besides he said he doesn't "expect" any ship to happen, but also Joe's not writing the scripts. He may have suggestions to what he wants his character to be, but utimately it's still the TPTB decisions. So heaven help us.

Either way as long as the keep the John and Elizabeth chemistry and give us wonderful moments like the private discussions in their rooms and on the balcony, some eye sex here and there. I'm happy.

[Celcool]

A Girl Like You
Created by: AthenaKTT
Fandom: Stargate: Atlantis
Song by: Pete Yorn
File size/Format: 7.75 mb; WMV
Created on: 10-29-06
Spoilers: Through Season 3 "The Return - Part 1"
Comments: A girl like Elizabeth Weir is what John Sheppard wants.

Nice video.

What, do you read minds? I just did this.

Hehe. Thanks. Well, I'm not allowed to green you. Next time.

This is not his usual speech on ship. He's changing veeerrrryyy slowly.

The "kiss" at the Comic con was already a start in this direction.

[Athenaktt]

Nice video.

The "kiss" at the Comic con was already a start in this direction.

Thanks!

All the "Kissing" tends to happen at comic con. Last year Rachel grabbed Jason and planted one on him, and this year Joe planted one on Torri. Maybe Sparky and Spanky are trying to out do each other.

[FoolishPleasure]

Just read this on another thread, and it seems to contradict what Joe said in the video from the London con:

. . .I thought it was interesting at the London Expo when Joe once again denied that anything will ever happen between Sheppard and Weir - he must be getting fed up repeating this - and emphasised that if anything was to happen between John and her - meaning Elizabeth - it would effectively ruin the show. . .

I thought what Joe was discussing was ship, in general, not just Shep/Weir.

[Athenaktt]

Just read this on another thread, and it seems to contradict what Joe said in the video from the London con:

. . .I thought it was interesting at the London Expo when Joe once again denied that anything will ever happen between Sheppard and Weir - he must be getting fed up repeating this - and emphasised that if anything was to happen between John and her - meaning Elizabeth - it would effectively ruin the show. . .

I thought what Joe was discussing was ship, in general, not just Shep/Weir.

See nothing to worry about. It's all the matter of POV. I'm thankful for people who defy authority and managed to film Joe's panel anyway.

[Pocus]

What, do you read minds? I just did this.

You can't hear the question very well. Maybe someone else can fill in the blanks. I got something about "latent sexuality between you and Dr. Weir and heard the words "chemistry" and "developed".

Joe: *big grin* Did you say latent sexuality? *another big grin and a laugh* "Here's my theory on that. I think that you always want that to exist subtextually, but I think that any time it actually manifests itself it ruins the show. With her though ... I mean you can have a romantic angle with another actor but with some of the best shows you are always saying to yourself 'Are they going to get together? Are they going to get together?', but if they did get together the show is effectively over. *chuckle, grin, pause* So...uh,uh... I don't expect that to be happening. So. She's a great girl, by the way. She's ...actually, Torri is remarkably personable and very...much sexier off screen than she is on the screen, which is remarkable. So...uh...just thought, you know, I'd tell you that 'cause she's fantastic ...*missed some words here*"

So, that's what I got. Now here's my analysis. First of all, he speaks beautifully. A smart actor, go figure. He missed several chances to say there is no chemistry written between their characters. Generally it sounds like he knows it's there and wants it to stay subtextual. I'd love him to know that a lot of us don't see how she could get better on screen, but I love the way he supports her. Oh, and he thinks she's a girl not his mother. *sarcasm, no extra charge* This is not his usual speech on ship. He's changing veeerrrryyy slowly. Now it sounds like they aren't going to do ship at all.

I was also struck by something else he said last weekend about how there were complaints about lack of banter between Shep and Rodney in S2 and that we'll see more of that in S3. This tells me that they listen to fans and adjust accordingly which makes it even more important that we speak up and keep explaining to them patiently how we think ship should work. The guys all seem to think you are always talking about sex. Upon hearing "latent sexuality" Joe's brain immediately went to that place, as would all men's. We, the shippers, need to explain that we don't mean that. But that's a discussion for another day.

Methinks Joe enjoys the "subtextual latent sexuality". He certainly puts enough of it in his scenes with Torri. He definitely seems to not want any type of resolution to the tension.

I think he and Torri can manage to keep people wondering "will they" for a very long time without it getting too stressful. Especially if they are using body language to control the situation and the writers are not addressing the issue on purpose. If the writers take a hand in it then, IMO, it might come across too strong and leave the shippers in a tizzy and the no-romos in disgust.

I love watching Joe and Torri on screen together just as they are. To me it leaves just enough for my fantasy of Sparky but not enough to say it is definite. I personally like the wondering. I know others prefer an answer, but hey, leaving it open allows for all sorts of interpretations thru fan-fiction from all our great writers and videos from all of our fantastic vidders.

[Lizabeth]

I thought what Joe said was encouraging, but not the answer to the question I'm looking for. I wish I could just sit down with him, Torri, the writers, whoever, and explain what I mean. I feel like whenever they talk about going with a ship they mean dating and possibly even sleeping together, which is not what I am looking for at all. I would be turned off by that. I just want it to be obvious that those two aren't interested in anyone else, and throw in some moments that really demonstrate how much they care about each other. That'd be enough for me. The answer I want from tptb is are we going to get that or are you heading off on different relationships, and from the actors I just want to know what they enjoy doing as actors and where'd they like to see it go. I KNOW they don't want all out blatency, but what about subtle but indicative? How do they feel about that?

[Gate gal]

No wait! *Raises umbrella* Ok, now we're talking. *throws mints*

Umm, where exactly did those mints come from? I think I'll pass, but yeah on the 3700 posts!

[Gate gal]

I like the way the are right now, too. It is appropriate for this stage in their relationship (and the show's span). Now, when the series ends....that's another story completely. What we are getting on screen is enough for now, at least for me.

[Southern Red]

See nothing to worry about. It's all the matter of POV. I'm thankful for people who defy authority and managed to film Joe's panel anyway.

And we get his exact words not someone's idea of his words twisted to fit their perception of what he meant. FP, there's no way you can hear this and not understand he means all ship unless you don't want to. I think the answer would have been the same no matter who they asked him about.

Methinks Joe enjoys the "subtextual latent sexuality". He certainly puts enough of it in his scenes with Torri. He definitely seems to not want any type of resolution to the tension.

He sure seemed to get a kick out of this question and seemed happy to answer it for the nth time.

I think he and Torri can manage to keep people wondering "will they" for a very long time without it getting too stressful. Especially if they are using body language to control the situation and the writers are not addressing the issue on purpose. If the writers take a hand in it then, IMO, it might come across too strong and leave the shippers in a tizzy and the no-romos in disgust.

ITA. I say we leave them to it. If the writers were writing ship between them as they supposedly are for Sheyla, it might not be as good. In spite of all that, from everything I've read on other threads most non-shippers and even some who are see only friendship between John and Teyla or to be fair, John and Elizabeth.

I love watching Joe and Torri on screen together just as they are. To me it leaves just enough for my fantasy of Sparky but not enough to say it is definite. I personally like the wondering. I know others prefer an answer, but hey, leaving it open allows for all sorts of interpretations thru fan-fiction from all our great writers and videos from all of our fantastic vidders.

I don't necessarily need them to set up housekeeping. I just want them to end the back and forth. As I've said before, just the words "Teyla is like a sister to me" coming out of John's mouth is all I need.

I thought what Joe said was encouraging, but not the answer to the question I'm looking for. I wish I could just sit down with him, Torri, the writers, whoever, and explain what I mean. I feel like whenever they talk about going with a ship they mean dating and possibly even sleeping together, which is not what I am looking for at all. I would be turned off by that. I just want it to be obvious that those two aren't interested in anyone else, and throw in some moments that really demonstrate how much they care about each other. That'd be enough for me. The answer I want from tptb is are we going to get that or are you heading off on different relationships, and from the actors I just want to know what they enjoy doing as actors and where'd they like to see it go. I KNOW they don't want all out blatency, but what about subtle but indicative? How do they feel about that?

ITA. I'd trade meeting Joe for 5 minutes with Brad and/or Rob just to tell them this very thing. I think we can get this message out by working on getting to that million views point on our thread. After all, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Hee. Is anybody going to the New Jersey con? Maybe someone could ask Joe why they always think UST/RST is the only way to show romantic interest with no middle ground. Start by saying that whatever he and Torri are doing is working for a majority of fans who like a little romance with their SciFi. No matter whether you agree with the outcome, right now you have to admit CSI is doing it right. That new show Standoff has a working ship also. So, no it doesn't ruin a show. The writers ruin the show by running out of ideas. And also dragging it out too long may be the reason why RST ruins it. I know I lost interest in X Files for that very reason. Joe said this was just his theory, but I don't think he is alone in feeling that way. This bunch of writers, for whom I am losing respect by the day, sometimes seems to throw a dart at the ship wheel for each episode. Sometimes *remembers The Return* more than once.

[SallyLizzie]

That new show Standoff has a working ship also. So, no it doesn't ruin a show.

But, unless I'm mistaken, that relationship was there at the start of Standoff and was part of the initial plan. Standoff is also a different genre to SGA so you can't really use it as a comparison, imo.

I feel like whenever they talk about going with a ship they mean dating and possibly even sleeping together, which is not what I am looking for at all. I would be turned off by that. I just want it to be obvious that those two aren't interested in anyone else, and throw in some moments that really demonstrate how much they care about each other.

I thought that's exactly what a canon ship was, when UST became RST. I can honestly say I think I'd lose interest sooner if that happened, if they never got together. Not because "OMG my ship never sailed, WTF!?!! Stupid IIC!!" but because they're two fully grown adults, so personally, it seems rediculous to have them show that they love each other but never act on it. I'd rather see them with someone else, or just showthat they're very close friends but nothing more.

Umm, where exactly did those mints come from?

The Story of the Mints can be seen on page 42.

[Athenaktt]

The Story of the Mints can be seen on page 42.

37,000 posts in and the Mint Joke still lives! The Mint is strong in this thread. LOL

All I can say having UST drag on for a loooooong time gets irritating, eventually the fun of seeing UST wears off and you just either want them to get together or just not even bother.

But when they say having RST "kills" something. it's not true, it's all how it is handled. Usually a lot of dramas tend to focus on the UST of two characters and when they do finally get together the show has nowhere else to go. For shows like Stargate, it isn't focused on a couple, it's focus on a group of people and their adventures as a whole. So I think even if there is RST and if it doesn't get in the way of the main focus of the story, it would work. But that's just me.

[SallyLizzie]

No fair! You don't post here in ages then you just waltz in, say what I'm trying to say, and do it much more eloquently than I ever could.

[FoolishPleasure]

Is anybody going to the New Jersey con? Maybe someone could ask Joe why they always think UST/RST is the only way to show romantic interest with no middle ground. Start by saying that whatever he and Torri are doing is working for a majority of fans who like a little romance with their SciFi. No matter whether you agree with the outcome, right now you have to admit CSI is doing it right.

I think that is the con that Alyssa and gang are going to, but I think they said they were going to miss Joe (as he cancelled, they rearranged plans, then he rescheduled for a day they wouldn't be there). But I'm sure they will get the "scoop".