Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[A.L.]

Progeny

Spoiler:

He was very upset that they blew up the city without trying to upload the anti-aggression code. He actually said that making the Asurans an enemy was a stupid thing to do.

I feel the same way about

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Michael. I think he could have been an awesome ally. And it could have worked too.

AL

[Pocus]

I feel the same way about

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Michael. I think he could have been an awesome ally. And it could have worked too.

AL

That was the one that disappointed me. I wish we could have seen some of the discussion that went on before Michael

Spoiler:

was given the retrovirus again.

I love Atlantis and all the characters. I do want them to grow, change, and even explore darker paths. I just don't want them to do that in a vacumm. Let us, the viewers, see a little of the planning and debate that goes on. I would like to see a disagreement and how it is handled. Let us in on their thoughts and maybe some people will understand why some choices are made. We saw a bit of that in Allies. I want more.

I would like to see John and Elizabeth have some disagreements. They are two strong personalities and are in charge of different aspects of the expedition. They can't possibly agree on every action that is proposed. My hubby and I can't agree on dinner most nights.

[gambit]

I feel exactly the same way! Very gipped. Yes, the

Spoiler:

Shep saving Lizzie at the end was awesome but it felt to me like they were almost trying to test the McWeir waters in this one. I was joking with my sis that tptb are going to cycle throught he ships every few weeks (Sparky in the first epi's, Kinda sheyla-ish in Sateda, McWeir-ish in Progeny and Sparky again in TRW.

AL

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Testing the McWeir waters? Come on now! McKay thinking Weir shouldn't do that mind thing with Niam isn't testing waters. Not everything is geared towards a ship. And besides that how is Progeny "McWeir-ish?"

[SGLAB]

Spoiler:

Testing the McWeir waters? Come on now! McKay thinking Weir shouldn't do that mind thing with Niam isn't testing waters. Not everything is geared towards a ship. And besides that how is Progeny "McWeir-ish?"

Progeny, Misbegotten.

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I didn't see it as shippy either. Rodney just showed concern. He was right behind her and just happened to be the first to react. I liked it myself. I felt like in s2 the Mckay/Weir friendship was lacking. I confess my favorite part of the briefing room scene in Misbegotten was when Rodney made the joke to deflect the emotional tension.

[Lizabeth]

Regarding the end of Progeny:

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The you ok? question reminded me mostly of the episode right before Conversion where Ronan asks Sheppard if he is ok and he says yeah, only next episode, he's not.

And regarding TRW:

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Are they going to show how she gets into the infirmary? Maybe this was just speculation, but I thought somebody said they don't show "The Real World" unti mid-way through the show, which makes sense, but I really want to see when and how she went unconscious in the first place, and I don't know how they would fit that in.

[Admiral Mappalazarou]

I like John

[Melyanna]

And regarding TRW:

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Are they going to show how she gets into the infirmary? Maybe this was just speculation, but I thought somebody said they don't show "The Real World" unti mid-way through the show, which makes sense, but I really want to see when and how she went unconscious in the first place, and I don't know how they would fit that in.

Spoiler:

Carl Binder said in an interview that in an early draft of the script, they didn't get to Atlantis until halfway through the episode and they were trying to find ways to bring more elements of the Stargate universe into the first half. This doesn't mean that we won't see Elizabeth's collapse, in the teaser or something. It's possible that they added it, though to be honest I doubt it.

[A.L.]

Spoiler:

Testing the McWeir waters? Come on now! McKay thinking Weir shouldn't do that mind thing with Niam isn't testing waters. Not everything is geared towards a ship. And besides that how is Progeny "McWeir-ish?"

I know not everything is geared toward ships. In fact when I'm being my most objective I know

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that scene is just expanding the general relationships as they've said they were going to do this season. Show more personal team development and such. BUT given Shep's reactions to dangersous things in the past, he seemed pretty okay with the idea while Rodney was the one making the protest. I'm not saying that means a whole lot, we know Rodney and Elizabeth are friends as well givent he comment she made in Trinity about having to protect him from himself. And they have known each other longer than some of the others.

I'm just trying to see all aspects I guess, for my own sanity. It's a lot easier to be accepting of the things you don't like when you accept what's there and not just block out everything but you want to see.

However, we all see epi's differently, and frankly in my opinion this did have some McWeir vibes. And why should Sheyla and Sparky be the only ships they test the waters on. If in fact the world fell off it's access and they decided to go with Sheyla - a mistake imo given how the show has gone so far - I'm a believer that it'd be nice if everyone who can hook up with someone should.

This is NOT me condoning or supporting Sheyla or McWeir, I'm just saying why would they think there only has to be one canon ship on the show, one couple who gets the happily ever after.

I'm not sure any of this made any sense but it's my opinion anyway.

AL

EDIT: PS While I think the Sparky's have more hard evidence to support their ship, that doesn't mean we don't latch on to even the little scenes just like this one, to try and validate our point of view. And you can bet McWeir's did just that. So there's nothing wrong with trying to see the ship or no ship in this scene. If Shep had been the one to speak up we'd have squeed over it in here.

[Melyanna]

I know not everything is geared toward ships. In fact when I'm being my most objective I know

Spoiler:

that scene is just expanding the general relationships as they've said they were going to do this season. Show more personal team development and such. BUT given Shep's reactions to dangersous things in the past, he seemed pretty okay with the idea while Rodney was the one making the protest. I'm not saying that means a whole lot, we know Rodney and Elizabeth are friends as well givent he comment she made in Trinity about having to protect him from himself. And they have known each other longer than some of the others.

I'm just trying to see all aspects I guess, for my own sanity. It's a lot easier to be accepting of the things you don't like when you accept what's there and not just block out everything but you want to see.

However, we all see epi's differently, and frankly in my opinion this did have some McWeir vibes. And why should Sheyla and Sparky be the only ships they test the waters on. If in fact the world fell off it's access and they decided to go with Sheyla - a mistake imo given how the show has gone so far - I'm a believer that it'd be nice if everyone who can hook up with someone should.

This is NOT me condoning or supporting Sheyla or McWeir, I'm just saying why would they think there only has to be one canon ship on the show, one couple who gets the happily ever after.

I'm not sure any of this made any sense but it's my opinion anyway.

AL

EDIT: PS While I think the Sparky's have more hard evidence to support their ship, that doesn't mean we don't latch on to even the little scenes just like this one, to try and validate our point of view. And you can bet McWeir's did just that. So there's nothing wrong with trying to see the ship or no ship in this scene. If Shep had been the one to speak up we'd have squeed over it in here.

The tone of Rodney's line, to be honest, was very familial – I've heard that tone out of my brother on many an occasion when I've embarked on something stupid. Rodney and Elizabeth's relationship has always reminded me a great deal of my relationship with my brother, actually, which is why the notion of McKay/Weir is so personally squicky to me. Your mileage may vary.

Anyway, I have caps and light commentary of the Real World promo in my LJ. Not dialup-friendly, nor spoiler-free. Click at your own risk.

[Easter Lily]

^^Far be it for me to denegrate another "ship"...
I don't think I could ever see any Rodney and Weir moment as being romantic... only because the dynamic between the two characters is too far removed from any feeling of romance. They have such a strong brother/older sister vibe or mother and son vibe to even feel that any poignant moment between them could be romantic.

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Re: Progeny. I agree it's a lovely moment of concern from o'l Rod... but I don't see romance... just like I don't see the Sheppard/Teyla moment from Sateda as being decisively romantic. It was, however, a wonderful character moment and we should see a lot more of them.

Edited: Looks like Mel beat me to it.

[Izzybaz]

I know we've been talking about what is shippy and what is not shippy and I guess we all know that it is all subjective. Sheesh, we wouldn't have so many different ships if it weren't subjective. That being said, I feel like in Progeny

Spoiler:

I can see the scene in the jumper as being shippy, even if other ships cannot. But, upon rewatching Sateda, I can kinda see why they would see the J/T scene as shippy as well. It's just all about perspective. There is nothing in either of these scenes that says in canon words "I am in love with you and I want to snog you blind." (paraphrased, of course) But there is a connection between two characters going on. Same goes for McKay showing concern for Elizabeth in the jumper. Still, I will stand on a mountain top and defend my firm belief that the way JF appered to play the scene in the jumper was shippy.

Shoot. I had a point somewhere. Where did it go? *rushes off to search for missing point*

[hopalong]

I know we've been talking about what is shippy and what is not shippy and I guess we all know that it is all subjective. Sheesh, we wouldn't have so many different ships if it weren't subjective. That being said, I feel like in Progeny

Spoiler:

I can see the scene in the jumper as being shippy, even if other ships cannot. But, upon rewatching Sateda, I can kinda see why they would see the J/T scene as shippy as well. It's just all about perspective. There is nothing in either of these scenes that says in canon words "I am in love with you and I want to snog you blind." (paraphrased, of course) But there is a connection between two characters going on. Same goes for McKay showing concern for Elizabeth in the jumper. Still, I will stand on a mountain top and defend my firm belief that the way JF appered to play the scene in the jumper was shippy.

Shoot. I had a point somewhere. Where did it go? *rushes off to search for missing point*

Where is a good place to get a transcript of the scene in the jumper. I'd like to watch it, but can't access You Tube or download files unless zipped.

[Trialia]

I know we've been talking about what is shippy and what is not shippy and I guess we all know that it is all subjective. Sheesh, we wouldn't have so many different ships if it weren't subjective. That being said, I feel like in Progeny

Spoiler:

I can see the scene in the jumper as being shippy, even if other ships cannot. But, upon rewatching Sateda, I can kinda see why they would see the J/T scene as shippy as well. It's just all about perspective. There is nothing in either of these scenes that says in canon words "I am in love with you and I want to snog you blind." (paraphrased, of course) But there is a connection between two characters going on. Same goes for McKay showing concern for Elizabeth in the jumper. Still, I will stand on a mountain top and defend my firm belief that the way JF appered to play the scene in the jumper was shippy.

Shoot. I had a point somewhere. Where did it go? *rushes off to search for missing point*

I'd have said, judging by that scene

Spoiler:

in the jumper with Rodney, that he does love her, in some way. He had that tone in his voice. I could never 'ship those two though, I get too much of a sibling vibe from them, as I do with John and Teyla.

Rodney does care. I doubt it's in that way, though.. I don't feel any UST between those two. Just a lot of affection, and I like that.

[Dorka]

I'd have said, judging by that scene

Spoiler:

in the jumper with Rodney, that he does love her, in some way. He had that tone in his voice. I could never 'ship those two though, I get too much of a sibling vibe from them, as I do with John and Teyla.

Rodney does care. I doubt it's in that way, though.. I don't feel any UST between those two. Just a lot of affection, and I like that.

I feel the same way about them, they could go as brother and sister...but well IMHO Elizabeth is a too strong person for Rodney and the other way round Rodney is not a strong men... I think due to the responsablilty Elizabeth has in her Job, she needs a man who takes that away a bit in her normal life, who is independent and mentally strong. Rodney doesn't have that.

The Jumper scene in Progeny could

Spoiler:

be considered as Shippy for McWeir shippers themselves... but I liked the glance John was making while Rodney told Elizabeth not to go. John didn't tell her not to go, but you could see on his face that he was somewhere between. As a leader he knew they should get to know more about these people but I also saw something like "no don't go"! it was both on his face... or maybe that's just me interpreting too much into it again

[Melyanna]

I'd have said, judging by that scene

Spoiler:

in the jumper with Rodney, that he does love her, in some way. He had that tone in his voice. I could never 'ship those two though, I get too much of a sibling vibe from them, as I do with John and Teyla.

Rodney does care. I doubt it's in that way, though.. I don't feel any UST between those two. Just a lot of affection, and I like that.

Absolutely.

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The scene in Misbegotten where Elizabeth was trying not to get too emotional and Rodney cut the tension with a joke was another moment that struck me very much of brother and sister. I think it's obvious that they love each other, but I can't see it as romantic. For one thing, Rodney seems far too aware of Elizabeth and John's connection for him to be entertaining romantic notions.

I usually dislike the "but they're like brother and sister!" argument – I've heard it a lot for Ronon/Teyla (which always makes me want to point out that if my brother looked at me like that, I'd be running far, far away). But in this case, it's actually reminding me of my relationship with my sibling... and the idea of McKay/Weir just makes me squirm. I love seeing them interact, but something romantic developing between them would just be very uncomfortable for me.

(Reminds me of a line in Sabrina – "I have a sister. That's not how we dance." )