Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[gwenhwyfar]

Fic?, where?, i haven't read fic in what feels like ages . I have so many fics to catch up on, and so little time .

Here:
I Wanted It To Be Different

Enjoy!

[Major_Moomin]

Yup yup. If they were really pushing Shep/Teyla as a serious contender, we wouldn't have whole episodes go by where Sheppard and Teyla have absolutely no contact of any kind. Sheppard would show more interest in Athosian culture. They'd actually talk to each other. Teyla wouldn't run off on field trips with Ronon all the time.

Yes! I mean..just a simple scene where they were walking down a corridor together in conversation would push their ship, if only a little. Him joining her to the mainland (we don't even have to see it..just them talking about it would be enough) And any time we do see them together... she is or has been with Ronan. And it is them who are in conversation, them who are always on missions together. And does John seem bothered by this?...I think not. And did John run to Teyla, telling her about Zelenka's face...I think not!

Refresh my memory – aside from The Lost Boys, has there been an episode this season where John and Elizabeth didn't interact at all? And including Lost Boys, has there been an episode where we haven't found something important for them and their relationship? I can't think of any. Even The Tower, as wretched as it was, gave us our balcony back.

The tower *sigh* And while I thank my brother for bringing my baby nephew round our house while this ep was on. I did not fail to notice that, even while Liz was not involed in the actual plot of this ep, tptb still decided to put them together in the ending scene. I could see no single reason for them to do this that would contribute to the storyline at all...yet they still added it. Because it shows the audience that their friendship is solid and developing. John didn't need to come to the balcony and bring her up do date...that's what reports are for. Yet he still did. I didn't see him running to Teyla to explain his actions...or was I too busy playing with my nephew and missed that bit
No doubt she was off playing 'sibling' with Ronan...you know I never spent so much time with my brother...if I did..I'd be worried

[Bama]

Ya know

Spoiler:

that infirmary scene was put in a vid I just watched and they TOTALLY mirror each other. The simultaneous head turn to Skinner and the 'nod' to each other after he leaves....hehehe...

M'kay just felt like being Cap'n Obvious there. But they do DO that a lot... I mean A LOT.

Ah yes....my 'Mutual nod of Sparky Truth.' It was very important.

Spoiler:

I know Mel and others have pointed out just how important it was that neither offered an apology nor did they have a laughing conversation about the kiss. And oh, my-no doubt-that is H-U-G-E.

To do either would have de-emphasized the event's importance as the real truth beneath all the lies in the episode. Imho, the theme of the episode told the real story. In the theme, we're asked from the very first clips of Caldwell's g'ould possession, what and who can be trusted and what is the real truth amidst all the lies and misdirection?

I also think that John's underscoring that the ONLY people that knew the truth held an important two-fold meaning. He said that only Carson (medically) and HE and ELIZABETH understood the truth about the two of them. On the surface it would seem that he was just referring to their true 'condition' physically in regard to their recent possessions. However, I think with all the 'red herrings' and 'what ifs?' tossed about in the episode that it was perhaps also a writer's nod to the fact that only John and Elizabeth understand the truth between them. I also found it very neat and interesting that Caldwell butted in and claimed to realize the 'truth' as well considering we've already seen hints that he is very interested in finding out what goes between them and how it affects Atlantis and perhaps even how he could use it to his own advantage. I still forsee that little 'angle' playing out in a very interesting and important manner in the future. The choices made by the director and writers to place the line there, the 'mutual nod of truth and understanding' as well as a visual of them in the beds-side by side- *together* was, I think a total metaphoric nod to the 'truth' that was so obscured during the episode's events.

You want the real truth audience? You got it in the last scene.

[Southern Red]

The tower *sigh* And while I thank my brother for bringing my baby nephew round our house while this ep was on. I did not fail to notice that, even while Liz was not involed in the actual plot of this ep, tptb still decided to put them together in the ending scene. I could see no single reason for them to do this that would contribute to the storyline at all...yet they still added it. Because it shows the audience that their friendship is solid and developing. John didn't need to come to the balcony and bring her up do date...that's what reports are for. Yet he still did. I didn't see him running to Teyla to explain his actions...or was I too busy playing with my nephew and missed that bit
No doubt she was off playing 'sibling' with Ronan...you know I never spent so much time with my brother...if I did..I'd be worried

Believe me, if I ever looked at my brother the way Teyla looks at Ronon he would sign up for some serious therapy. And I can't even think about doing splits on the bed while he lounged against my door.

We have been talking a lot about Sheyla the last few days in a negative way, and I hope anyone who's not Sparky who might come here takes it the right way. I haven't lurked over there in a long time, but they seen like really nice people. They're having fun and have the right to see the world through Sheyla tinted glasses if they choose. I sense that we are trying to reason out among ourselves just what they see, so we can understand it and prepare ourselves if the writers go in that direction. A lot of us seem to have consulted unbiased outsiders. e.g. husbands, SO's, siblings, parents, friends Usually we get the response we hope for, and they say they see Sparky. Sometimes they don't but rarely. my own brother is still a pimply-faced adolescent at heart and thinks Teyla is hot. Cretin. Personally, I love a good loud argument that ends in broken china. Just the redhead part of me asserting itself. But for those who don't, I hope you take our discussion of Sheyla in the right way. I've made a little personal list that anyone can feel free to add to:
Things that puzzle me about Sheyla
1. Since early in season 1 they have not been together off duty.
2. They almost never have a personal conversation, and when they do it has something to do with Atlantis. e.g. Allies
3. They exchange quick glances, usually of amusement, that last a few seconds only.
4. Neither seems overly concerned about the well-being of the other. Being female and a nurturing sort, Teyla has taken over the role of "comforter" in the team. She does it equally with all 3 men.

Spoiler:

Ronon and Rodney in Condemned, whom she checked on before John. Ronon in The Hive and Runner. And yes, John had his head on her lap in The Lost Boys, but that was the greatest effort on someone's part not to touch a person who had his head on her lap I have ever seen. Watch the scene for confirmation. She does not touch him.

John frequently asks her if she's okay, but he does the same for everyone.

Spoiler:

Remember how concerned he was for Mara?

5. Whole episodes go by when they don't talk at all.
6. If TPTB really are writing scripts that intend to show that Shep and Teyla have a thing for each other, some of us are missing something.
7. They have spent a large amount of time slowly building a deep understanding between Shep and Weir. What happens to that when he hooks up with Teyla?
8. It's been said that Teyla is a civilian, sort of a diplomat and technically not under military command. Okay, then why do they make it look like she is? She acts like any other soldier under a leader's command. She takes orders from Sheppard. They talk about "on and off duty." Again, confusing. A civilian under command of a military officer has to follow military rules. Sounds like Sam and Jack to me.
9. If he cares about her, why has he hesitated even to get closer emotionally to her for 2 years?
10. If he cares about her and she him, why does he feel free to flirt with strangers while she's on a mission with him.

I'm sure there's more, but that's a start. It seems like all this would have to change for a Sheyla relationship to grow. Yet changing most of it would change the whole dynamic of the show. Obviously TPTB haven't made up their minds, but the second half of S2 sure has a lot of screen time with Sparky. At least in the same room.

[Southern Red]

Ah yes....my 'Mutual nod of Sparky Truth.' It was very important.

Spoiler:

I know Mel and others have pointed out just how important it was that neither offered an apology nor did they have a laughing conversation about the kiss. And oh, my-no doubt-that is H-U-G-E.

To do either would have de-emphasized the event's importance as the real truth beneath all the lies in the episode. Imho, the theme of the episode told the real story. In the theme, we're asked from the very first clips of Caldwell's g'ould possession, what and who can be trusted and what is the real truth amidst all the lies and misdirection?

I also think that John's underscoring that the ONLY people that knew the truth held an important two-fold meaning. He said that only Carson (medically) and HE and ELIZABETH understood the truth about the two of them. On the surface it would seem that he was just referring to their true 'condition' physically in regard to their recent possessions. However, I think with all the 'red herrings' and 'what ifs?' tossed about in the episode that it was perhaps also a writer's nod to the fact that only John and Elizabeth understand the truth between them. I also found it very neat and interesting that Caldwell butted in and claimed to realize the 'truth' as well considering we've already seen hints that he is very interested in finding out what goes between them and how it affects Atlantis and perhaps even how he could use it to his own advantage. I still forsee that little 'angle' playing out in a very interesting and important manner in the future. The choices made by the director and writers to place the line there, the 'mutual nod of truth and uaudience? You got it in the last scene.

Spoiler:

nderstanding' as well as a visual of them in the beds-side by side- *together* was, I think a total metaphoric nod to the 'truth' that was so obscured during the episode's events.

You want the real truth

Pardon my multiple posts. I'm going to go do stuff now, but I just couldn't help it.

Is this the red herring you mean?


And here's the Mutual Nod of Sparky Truth


Between this and the last post, I think I ate too much birthday candy.

[AngelQueen]

Ah yes....my 'Mutual nod of Sparky Truth.' It was very important.

Spoiler:

I know Mel and others have pointed out just how important it was that neither offered an apology nor did they have a laughing conversation about the kiss. And oh, my-no doubt-that is H-U-G-E.

To do either would have de-emphasized the event's importance as the real truth beneath all the lies in the episode. Imho, the theme of the episode told the real story. In the theme, we're asked from the very first clips of Caldwell's g'ould possession, what and who can be trusted and what is the real truth amidst all the lies and misdirection?

I also think that John's underscoring that the ONLY people that knew the truth held an important two-fold meaning. He said that only Carson (medically) and HE and ELIZABETH understood the truth about the two of them. On the surface it would seem that he was just referring to their true 'condition' physically in regard to their recent possessions. However, I think with all the 'red herrings' and 'what ifs?' tossed about in the episode that it was perhaps also a writer's nod to the fact that only John and Elizabeth understand the truth between them. I also found it very neat and interesting that Caldwell butted in and claimed to realize the 'truth' as well considering we've already seen hints that he is very interested in finding out what goes between them and how it affects Atlantis and perhaps even how he could use it to his own advantage. I still forsee that little 'angle' playing out in a very interesting and important manner in the future. The choices made by the director and writers to place the line there, the 'mutual nod of truth and understanding' as well as a visual of them in the beds-side by side- *together* was, I think a total metaphoric nod to the 'truth' that was so obscured during the episode's events.

You want the real truth audience? You got it in the last scene.

*ponders this* More very good points being made here, Bama!

Spoiler:

There were actually many meaningful scenes throughout the episode (the whole tension between Rodney and Caldwell, Ronon learning first-hand at just what possession by an alien entity REALLY means, etc.), but when it comes to Sparky, that last scene was probably the only TRUE and HONEST Sparky moment, besides at the beginning with John's concern and angst over the newly-possessed Lizzie.

John and Lizzie have always been able to understand one another in a way that outsiders cannot always comprehend. Just look at Siege 2, when he wants to run off on to blow up a Wraith ship with himself inside of it. He never comes out and says it, but she takes one look at him, and knows right away what he's talking about doing. And of course, she freaks out, telling him he can't do it. Insert moment of angst and woe before she slowly, reluctantly surrenders and lets him go off and get himself killed for her sake and the sake of Atlantis. She knew what he wanted to do, and he never had to say a word.

Spoiler:

As for Caldwell butting into the whole moment, I personally think that really was him trying to assure them that he did believe it was really them. While the others - Teyla, Rodney, Major Hot er, Lorne, etc. - might be a little wary still, even with Carson's assurance, Caldwell knows pretty damn well the hows and whys of being possessed by a homicidal alien. The whole assurance thing might be another way for him, in his own eyes, to work at making up for his own actions while he was Goa'ulded (something he's doing pretty well, considering he managed to keep Atlantis only at the gates and not in hell itself while Lizzie and John were trying desperately to off one another). We'll see over time just how much of his attitude towards Lizzie and John was influenced by the Goa'uld. It's through this that we can actually get a somewhat clear idea of when he was Goa'ulded. He's all nice and stuff when he showed up in Siege 3, saving Lizzie's man and all, but when The Intruder rolls around, he's got a major axe to grind with John, and it might have been the Goa'uld's frustration at not being able to nab the high military spot on the Expedition right under Elizabeth.

But I'm getting off topic here.

John seemed totally sure that Lizzie recognized that it was him at the end, even though the others didn't entirely believe it. He didn't doubt for one moment that she knew, just as he knew it was really her and not the Return of the Psycho Phoebus. Now, that's being attuned to one another. It's all instinct, you either have it, or you don't. But when it comes to one another, They. So. Have. It.

AQ

[Bama]

Is this the red herring you mean?

Put the word 'Sheyla' across that dead fish and you've got it.

And here's the Mutual Nod of Sparky Truth

John mental message: 'Lizabeth, you know that even though I can't say it yet that I enjoyed your mouth all over mine don't you?

Elizabeth mental message: Oh, yeah? I could feel that you did. And John? Could we try it again sometime soon-you know...the real us?

[FoolishPleasure]

Put the word 'Sheyla' across that dead fish and you've got it.

Stop forcing me to laugh at work! Between you and Ms. Pooh, I'm going to be in real trouble here.

I need that fish pic, then I can toss Fish and Mints around.

On second thought, maybe not.

[Melyanna]

I'm sure there's more, but that's a start. It seems like all this would have to change for a Sheyla relationship to grow. Yet changing most of it would change the whole dynamic of the show. Obviously TPTB haven't made up their minds, but the second half of S2 sure has a lot of screen time with Sparky. At least in the same room.

Yeah, this is a point I made a couple weeks ago, I think. (Might not have been here. You never know. ) To go with Shep/Teyla, you'd first have to deconstruct the show as it stands. And, well, changing things is all well and good, but changing things to force a ship that lacks any chemistry or prior interest beyond appearances just seems ridiculous. Sheppard and Teyla just don't spend time together. Allies

Spoiler:

In Allies, when Teyla was asked how the Athosians were doing with yet another evacuation, it wasn't Teyla who answered. It was Ronon.

So many of us have said that if Sheppard had any interest in this woman, we'd see at least some measure of interest in her people. So far pretty much every other person on the show but Sheppard has done so. John's been too busy with Elizabeth, I suppose.

[Bama]

Yeah, this is a point I made a couple weeks ago, I think. (Might not have been here. You never know. ) To go with Shep/Teyla, you'd first have to deconstruct the show as it stands. And, well, changing things is all well and good, but changing things to force a ship that lacks any chemistry or prior interest beyond appearances just seems ridiculous. Sheppard and Teyla just don't spend time together. Allies

Spoiler:

In Allies, when Teyla was asked how the Athosians were doing with yet another evacuation, it wasn't Teyla who answered. It was Ronon.

So many of us have said that if Sheppard had any interest in this woman, we'd see at least some measure of interest in her people. So far pretty much every other person on the show but Sheppard has done so. John's been too busy with Elizabeth, I suppose.

I'll even go so far as to say that I have trouble at times buying that they're even friends much less anything else. If you watch John whenever he's with the team or with Teyla alone, he just doesn't pay any special attention to her-like ever. He doesn't even glance her way most times. In scenes with Elizabeth, we'll see him constantly looking at her for reaction. His eyes seek hers out for a variety of reasons: reassurance, questions, fear, worry, excitement, etc. But yet, we never see that emotive human to human connection between John and Teyla. Seriously, if it weren't for just a few episodes that have tried to establish a bond of teamsmanship between Teyla and John, I'd think that they were almost strangers to each other most times.
There are never any questions passed or deep discussions about how they feel about life or actions like there are between Shep and Weir. THAT is how you get to know someone. How in the world can you possibly develop deeper feelings with someone when you don't take the time to talk to them or get to know them on other levels? John knows Teyla as a fighter. He respects her for it. He has some evidence that she's a kind and good person as a leader and I'm sure approves of her for it. Other than that, there's been nothing remotely personal shown between them. Any kind of feelings between Shep and Teyla would be primarily visually/sexually based and I'm astounded that anyone would enjoy a seeing a relationship that shallow between characters they assert to love.

[Southern Red]

Put the word 'Sheyla' across that dead fish and you've got it.

You know I could do that, but I'm trying to be good. Oh, wait.

Yeah, this is a point I made a couple weeks ago, I think. (Might not have been here. You never know. ) To go with Shep/Teyla, you'd first have to deconstruct the show as it stands. And, well, changing things is all well and good, but changing things to force a ship that lacks any chemistry or prior interest beyond appearances just seems ridiculous. Sheppard and Teyla just don't spend time together. Allies

Spoiler:

In Allies, when Teyla was asked how the Athosians were doing with yet another evacuation, it wasn't Teyla who answered. It was Ronon.

So many of us have said that if Sheppard had any interest in this woman, we'd see at least some measure of interest in her people. So far pretty much every other person on the show but Sheppard has done so. John's been too busy with Elizabeth, I suppose.

Allies spoiler coming up.

Spoiler:

Do you mean to tell us that Ronon has become personally involved with the Athosians? Something we have no evidence that John has done in 2 years beyond asking about a year ago if they were settled on the mainland? Hmmm. Very interesting.

[Bama]

You know I could do that, but I'm trying to be good. Oh, wait.

ROTFLMAO! I think I snorted last night's tea thru my nose just now.
We are so bad. *spanks Bama and SR's old shrivelled hands*
If it smells like a dead herring...floats like a dead herring...
*spank! must stop!*

Allies spoiler coming up.

Spoiler:

Do you mean to tell us that Ronon has become personally involved with the Athosians? Something we have no evidence that John has done in 2 years beyond asking about a year ago if they were settled on the mainland? Hmmm. Very interesting.

Hmmmmm....isn't that very, very interesting....? Oh, and didn't we see ol' Ronon ask to go with a Teyla ashore once already? And didn't we hear Elizabeth say more than once that Teyla AND RONON were visiting/taking supplies to the mainland -TOGETHER. And didn't we already HEAR Teyla talk to Ronon about the differences in 'our' people/world and the humans? Hmmmmm....? Nah, probably doesn't indicate anything SR. Better to build a relationship around a heaving breasts in stick fight and a look or two than anything of real substance.

[gwenhwyfar]

I have a theory. About the whole Sheyla/Sparky debate.

I think TPTB have decided to go with Sparky as the dominant ship. That has been pretty obvious since Siege 3.
I think the reason they keep sticking Sheyla hints in though is... They don't want to admit they were wrong. Who does? I know I don't! But I'm just a student. They are TPTB. Admitting they were wrong must be really, really, tough! So I don't think they are actually trying to go with Sheyla, they are just trying to make themselves feel better.

I hope that made sense...

[FoolishPleasure]

Allies spoiler coming up.

Spoiler:

Do you mean to tell us that Ronon has become personally involved with the Athosians? Something we have no evidence that John has done in 2 years beyond asking about a year ago if they were settled on the mainland? Hmmm. Very interesting.

Well,

Spoiler:

since Ronon is madly in love with the leader of the Athosioans, he needs to become a part of their culture, meet and accept the people, show he cares about them, etc.

I don't see anyone else attempting to do that.

[FoolishPleasure]

I have a theory. About the whole Sheyla/Sparky debate.

I think TPTB have decided to go with Sparky as the dominant ship. That has been pretty obvious since Siege 3.
I think the reason they keep sticking Sheyla hints in though is... They don't want to admit they were wrong. Who does? I know I don't! But I'm just a student. They are TPTB. Admitting they were wrong must be really, really, tough! So I don't think they are actually trying to go with Sheyla, they are just trying to make themselves feel better.

I hope that made sense...

I think TPTB have seen what works and what doesn't. They brought in Ronon this year to see how "that" goes over (and it has), but in case it didn't, they had to leave the door open a teensy bit for S/T. After Rachel talking about early season 3 scripts

Spoiler:

possibly focusing on Tey/Ronon

, I get the feeling TPTB are finally going to settle on their pairings.