Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[SallyLizzie]

But I'm not quite sure where the argument is coming from where she was so complex, that the writers couldn't handle it. I actually think the opposite is true. Her character didn't have enough to do, and became rather one dimensional - a fault more of the rather unimaginative writers than the character, I think.

See below:

Here we have a woman who's a warrior, a leader of a people who have lived for centuries under constant threat of an enemy they know they can't defeat, and is trying to be a bridge between her people and these newcomers. That's... a lot.

I agree with Mel. Although Teyla is obviously trained in combat, I bet she used her negotiating skills more, to trade. I think the stick training has more spiritual significance than combat (finding inner balance, etc). But she's displayed as a fighter.

That's two skills she has.

She is a leader, yet once she joins John's team, she becomes a subordinate. Things complicate further when her people move to the mainland.

There's another three aspects to explore.

That's at least five aspects of her character that have been hinted at and therefore should be explored to further her character. That's a lot for any show, but in a first season of a series that has a large number of characters who also need development...to say it's quite a feat is an understatement.

if everything were cliche and predictable, it wouldn't make for a very good show, but a little doesn't hurt.

I agree. It's all about how well written a show is that determines how good it is - not the size nor the ammount of cliches. If the writers are clever enough, they can use the cliche to their advantage. I think it was The Tower that was one whole cliche episode, yet the throw away line from Shep at the end -

Spoiler:

"Got the drones, got a few Jumpers, and I even got the girl."

- took the edge of it a little.

[Whistler84]

I'd have to say though, if I picked on ship that was more cliche it would be Sheyla. So maybe it's not being cliche that matters, but how much. I wish I new the link to a fanfic I read once that I think demonstrated this pretty well. It was the rest of the main cast watching Shep and Weir dancing (I think... could have been just talking, not sure) and they were basically saying something like if it had been Shep and Teyla, it would have been really cliche, but since it's Shep and Weir, it's only a little cliche.

I think I may have set a record for how many times you can use the word cliche in a post.

Um, I would like to direct you to a post I made in the S/T thread months back, here. Look to the second paragraph, and the edit!

I got you beat!

[Lexa Jayde]

*sniffle* i cant find anything on "Inferno".... *calls out* can anyone tell me!!!!!!

[SallyLizzie]

Lexa, buggy and Erised posted spoilers on the last page.

ETA: Inferno spoilers
Infeno spoilers.
Inferno spoilers

[Melyanna]

*sniffle* i cant find anything on "Inferno".... *calls out* can anyone tell me!!!!!!

Lexa, there have been a couple posts with Inferno spoilers already, one from Buggy and the other from Erised, I think. That's all the information we have in here now, and since no one else in the thread has seen the episode, begging for information repeatedly won't do any good.

[Lexa Jayde]

*hangs head* sorry, i didnt realise... i will go back to those pages now!

[Lexa Jayde]

Yeah, maybe. But we're allowed to be optimistic, aren't we? Anything is possible, I certainly hope there will be some heart-to-heart chats between John and Liz in the future!

Anyway, as Erised said, Inferno was awesome.

Spoiler:

It was a teency bit predictable, but definitely a good ep.

There were two giant eye-sex scenes, one at the begining where Shep comes into Liz's office and does the whole "your office is my office" bit, and he tells her that Rodney's into the alien girl:

Shep: "He seemed..."
Weir: "Smitten?"

And then they give each other the BEST look! And as he's walking out the door he looks at her and gives her a huge eyebrow, complete with a wiggle.

The scenes in between are all angsty on the part of Weir, with her on the balcony looking up at the stars and sighing and wondering if Shep is still out there. She still has hope though, she says to Caldwell, "Stay as long as possible".

In the last scene they're all together again and they're having a chat about how they're going to defend Atlantis. Rodney is losing hope, and Weir is trying to stay realistic. Then she looks at Shep and they have at least a solid second of eye-contact (aka EYESEX!).

Then it fades out to black. (A friend of mine has assured me several times that when a scene fades out to black with two people in one room, they have sex. I think I like that theory. )

looks to be a great episode... i will see it tomorrow!!!! YAY!!!!!!... i can not believe that it is only one week ti the end of Atlantis until JULY!!!!!! NOOOOO

[ranchan2]

Thanks for the info about Inferno. I can't wait to see the looks between them.

[Whistler84]

Here we have a woman who's a warrior, a leader of a people who have lived for centuries under constant threat of an enemy they know they can't defeat, and is trying to be a bridge between her people and these newcomers. That's... a lot.

Okay, now let's try that with Weir.

Here we have a woman who's a pacifist, a leader of a group of people arriving in a completely unknown galaxy and facing a threat they can't even imagine and can't defeat, and is trying to be a bridge between the civilian and military under her command, not to mention facing types of decisions she's not accustom to facing.

She [Teyla] is a leader, yet once she joins John's team, she becomes a subordinate. Things complicate further when her people move to the mainland.

Weir is a pacifist leader, yet once she comes to Atlantis and faces this new threat, she finds herself having to make decisions of war. Things are complicated further because they're cut off from Earth.

That's at least five aspects of her character that have been hinted at and therefore should be explored to further her character. That's a lot for any show, but in a first season of a series that has a large number of characters who also need development...to say it's quite a feat is an understatement.

I hope my point has come across. Teyla had no more to contend with than some of the other characters on the show, like Weir. From Rising, her situation was to me no more complex or convoluted than Elizabeth's, yet one characters progression (Weir's) was handled better than the others (Teyla's). I believe the reasons had very little to do with "complexity" and more to do with what the PTB chose to focus on.

Personally, if they had to chose to develope one or the other (although I don't see why it came to this), I think they decided on the right choice - Weir. And this has very little to do with the fact that Weir is my favorite character. Her character needed to be established and developed, plot wise, far before Teyla's development was needed. Still, I think "complexity" had very little to do with it, and it was more a reflection of writing. And this trend continues even this season, with some characters getting the bulk of screentime and development (say, McKay), and others getting some (Sheppard, if for only sheer screentime, and to a far lesser extent - Weir, and in a distant third - Teyla), and yet others getting barely any (Carson and Ronon, anyone?) The PTB really have problems balancing out the development among it's characters.

It's a writing issue, is my point.

[Chrysalis]

*hangs head* sorry, i didnt realise... i will go back to those pages now!

You have nothing to apologise for, Lexa

[sunny]

Heh, can I just say I love this thread?

I LOVE THIS THREAD.

Teyla: I like her character because ONE: she has the hardest job. Bridging the cultural gap and educating the noobies to the galaxy while still trying her best to serve her ppl. She's their ambassador. How many of us know who OUR repective ambassadors are? *I sure as heck don't.* Ambassadors go out there and try to forge new alliances and better means of life for the ppl they represent and many a time their work is uncredited or at least unknown to the general public. That being said, I watched 'The Gift' w/commentary & DeLuise even said that in the majority of the first season she pretty much just stood around looking all stoic and having the stick fights. So they admit their failings in her character development and how it would be explored more in the second run. Which apparently they have done a little bit. It does bother me that they promote the sexyfullness of her body, treating her more as an object instead of a leader. It's very undermining to her character. I hope this is something that is done away with. YES WE GET IT!! SHE'S BEAUTIFUL!! I don't need to be hit with a wrecking ball to notice it That and playing her off of the men to try and find her character. Find the woman's worth for the sake of it. Not an increased libido. Same goes for Shep too.

TWO: there is mucho potential for her and Weir to bond. In a way she's kinda like an avatar for Elizabeth. Teyla usually brings up issues in the field that Elizabeth is not present to address: ie Childhood's End, LFP (imo: she was looking for some form of compassion/humanity from Shep & he was tunnel visioned @ that moment[understandably], IMO I think Weir would've at least considered saving those ppl as Teyla did cos she's one of those 'Give me my options' gals.) Reason being is that both women are, as has so beautifully been brought out, diplomats AND leaders. Leaders in two very different aspects but both with the burden of responsibility. I imagine that can get very lonely due to the fact that not just anyone would comprehend the pressures and conditions under which you must work. The prospect of greater understanding just thrills me, cos I'm tired of seeing women portrayed as being snarky and sarcastic to each other. We're not bloodthirsty competitors who wanna rip the others throat out for the sake of whatever it is that may be the issue, be it a powerplay or some guy .


The other thing is that John was stationed in Antarctica for 11 months. Elizabeth was there also. Now I don't know much about anything, but I would think that the population of that continent is mostly made up of penguins and a few hundred ppl. So how could they have not known each other living in such a vastly populated region? Granted she's hanging out w/the brains and he w/the brawn, but... :shrugs:

Oh, and I wanna move to Canada. *pouts*

[EnfantTV]

Thanks for the spoilers about Inferno. I will see this zod this evening... after my job I can't wait to see the looks between them.

[Major_Moomin]

Hey

Just popping in to say that the 'Inferno' spoilers look great!

...eagerly awaiting screencaps... *wink..nudge*

[Lexa Jayde]

Hey

Just popping in to say that the 'Inferno' spoilers look great!

...eagerly awaiting screencaps... *wink..nudge*

me too me too!!!!! screen caps would be great!!!

[Chrysalis]

I need a good dose of Sparkiness.... I just stumbled into (and very quickly out of!) the "What's Your Slash" thread.
OMG!
I still don't get that at all. Each to their own and everything, but ... just ...
Oh, there's nothing to say except
JUST KIDDING!! And nothing else, kids!
Erised and Co, thanks for posting all that info! I'd green you all if I could... But I'm going to snooze! Will try tomorrow!