Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[SGLAB]

Where does the first scene written fall in Jor's world? (In other words, yes, I caved in like a house of cards. I think I'm more a sucker for Sparky AUs than I am for fics that have a lot more relation to canon.)

There's a fandom I read fic in that has a very popular AU. I think it's so popular it out numbers fics in the show's actual universe and has AUs within that AU. It's gotten to the point I like the AU so much when I recently I read a fic that was in its actual universe it threw me because I started thinking the AU was the actual universe.

I don't usually like AUs. Particularly ones that don't have a well established universe. Like one time AUs that a writer created for just one story. Spygate and Langfor U are well established AUs I like.

[Atlantean_Fan]

Hi guys I'm back in business!!!

I hope I'm not too late to wish Happy Birthday Dorka!!! I wish I could do the stuff you and other guys do with the computer . Got Photoshop and all, but I couldn't suck more at it even if I wanted to. But, since you can't suck at everything (gotta be good at something, right?) I write reasonably well.

*Thinking about trying to write my first fanfic based on Atlantis, although I think I would write better a script for Horizon than a fic because my background is amateur theater. But it's worth a try if you want, of course*

While we're on the fic deal I wish to say that I liked the many suggestions made in this thread. A big thank you to everyone who posted them *hugs*. Since many have experince with posting fics, I would like to know how to post one on line like you do, that of course if you give me a green light to run for the story.

Guys, guys, I'm a big girl, but some of the commentaries a few pages ago made me blush... I can accept the idea of closets but Bama's couch, please... (Just kidding, don't get offended!!!)

On the whole ship deal, although I can now see something between Shep and Weir I don't know for sure if this should grow further than the beatifull friendship this two have at the moment. Given TPTB history of ship in SG-1, I really don't know if they can pull it off.

On the other hand SG-1 doesn't have Carl Binder and Martin Gero who are truly good at writing characterization and individual development. That's why their episodes are among my favorites of Atlantis.

I saw people here were discussing the John/Deleen ship from Babylon 5 as the way to go with Shep/Weir and in a similar way fulfill sparky. Well if you see it, if I remember well, in B5 S2 the ship is very subtle and almost umperceptible, in S3 it is more developed but you still get the mostly friendship vibe until the end of the season, in S4 they are already almost a couple and act like one, marriage in the end of the season and S5 they are a couple and there is the issue of jealousy with Capt. Lochley. I see sparky in the S2 of B5 stage and it can grow in the same path. But one thing we should keep in mind when using B5 as an example is that it was scripted by JMS to have 4 seasons only so the story had to be closed in this number of seasons and that's why season 5 was not as good as its predecessors, it wasn't meant to be originally. On the other hand, TPTB will make Atlantis go on for as long as we are willing to glue ourselves to our TVs, so things like ship will develop waay slower than they did in B5.

Should they even try to do it? I think so, mainly because of Binder and Gero. We should really give these two guys a shot because they rock, perhaps not so much as JMS who is a true genius (B5 is the best sci-fi series ever, followed sometimes closely by the two stargates) but they should try. The layout and feelings are there, TPTB just have to be bold enough to take them there and I think Binder and Gero would do a good job at it and make nobody look bad in the end, but stronger and more able to kick ass like John/Deleen.

Today I had my super lurker cover on and was reading through the TLG episode thread and they were having a discussion there about

Spoiler:

the difference in characterization between Weir and Phoebus and John and Thalan and how Torri was better than Joe etc. I haven't seen this episode yet as you know. Three weeks until Siege III, wu hu!!!!. So I can't say anything for sure, but I think for what I read that Phoebus was much more different than Weir than Thalan was from Shep so it was natural for the difference to be more noticeable for Weir. But from what I have seen in S1, I think they both must have rocked!!!

By the other hand, it's only a personal idea don't go runnig for your baseball bats yet please, I also don't see Shep doing it because he thinks it is Ok, but I see him doing it because he believes that if something goes awfully wrong, as it did, he would have more chances to control the situation internally than anybody else.

After all TPTB made such a loud cry in Rising that Shep was a special guy and then completely focused on other stuff giving only mild hints on this the rest of the season and throughout S2 also I think because nobody seams to have thought about it this way. Like for example in Rising too after Teyla tells Shep that the Wraith could make them see what wasn't there he just stopped shooting at nothing, while in the last scenes in the alien world you see Ford who also got Teyal's warning doing it, while Shep only shot the Dart when it attacked. I wonder why.... Perhaps in the scenes in which Shep convinced Ronon to help him get Weir and when he asks help for Ronon, he was actually Shep, but not all the time, just the crucial moments that could get people he cared about killed. Like I believe that John would have gladly died to save the guys Phoebus was threatening and wouldn't even try to convince Teyla otherwise, as we have seen him do in Siege II, that was Thalan for sure!!!

Could that mean that now Atlantis main team is composed of four people that are alien to each other but work together for the greater good and understand each other better two by two because of similar general background (McKay and Sheppard (raised on Earth) / Teyla and Ronon (raised in Pegasus))? Go team!!!! . And TPTB did say that it was hard to write for Shep. I wonder why...

That may also mean that one day Shep will realise that the hot alien chick he truly loves and wants to be with is Elizabeth, although I think that the other encounters were based in empathic transference.

Welcome to all the newbies. You were seduced by the power of the dark side. Eventually, doesn't matter how long we try to resist, we all do. There is no going back now!!!!

And Sunny I know what you are passing through reading all the pages of this thread. I did the same before my first post here and how it is worth the work. You will laugh a lot while you are at it.

[Qasim]

You were seduced by the power of the dark side.

I guess you are referring to the lack of light in a closet

[xfkirsten]

They are more than fabulous! I know not everyone's a Mulder Scully fan like we are Bama, but I see Shep/Weir as being a lot like them. There's that subtle feel about them. The actors aren't trying to hard, and it makes it look so much more convincing. It seems to come naturally.
(That's also the reason I can't see Sheyla! Joe and Rachel looked to me in those early scenes like they were trying to have chemistry...)

Yes! I do too! It starts out the same way - two people who have opposing viewpoints that are thrown together. Over time, they learn to trust each other, use each others strengths, and become the closest of friends.

The funny thing is, I see the exact same thing happening in this fandom that happened in that one: a shap split between Shippers and NoRomos. I was a big MSR fan, myself. Actually just spent all last night reading the greatest X-Files AU MSR fic of all time. (The Magician series - if you're a Mulder/Scully fan and haven't read it, GO!)

Where does the first scene written fall in Jor's world? (In other words, yes, I caved in like a house of cards. I think I'm more a sucker for Sparky AUs than I am for fics that have a lot more relation to canon.)

Yeah, I gotta admit I agree with you on that one. The thing I love about AUs is that you can do just about anything with them. Just spent the weekend reading all the Langford U fics, actually, and am dying for more!

[Athenaktt]

It's less that I think it's the "dark side", and more an issue of access to and time to watch the DVDs. I'd sign up for Netflix or some such thing, but I know that what semblance of a social life I have would immediately cease to be (except on days I'm waiting for new DVDs to arrive). I watched the first seven seasons of SG-1 in about six weeks, summer before last. God knows what I'd do with a virtually unlimited supply of shows.

I was in Costco the other day and they are selling the first four seasons of WW for about $16 each.

In response to the mint question. It started many, many, many pages ago. Some one asked if John's gift to Elizabeth could still be found in "Siege I". And I posted a picture, which was a scene where Halling is speaking to Elizabeth in her office.

The I guess we were wondering what would you be put in the jar. The Major Fischer made a comment about wouldn't that just be weird because You-know-what was in there previously. Then someone, astro? FP? suggested mints with a chalky taste. Then Melyanna, added a line of "Halling want a mint?" since in that scene Halling was sort of annoying Elizabeth.

Anyways that the mint thing in a nutshell...

[Luz]

True, True! I hadn't watched X-Files in ages, but I shipped Mulder and Scully! I was just too young to really think about their relationship and everything. I can't really compare the two, but yes, sparky is just soo much more obvious even though the actors aren't trying too had to get the word across! I squee every time the two stand next to each other! Even SG-1didn't do that to me

The other day i was watching SGA, and my mum was with me, she saw Sheppard and exclaimed: "OMG, that's Mulder!!!". She said i have replaced XF with Atlantis, and Mulder with a guy who looks just like him. And that i was using Weir/Sheppard as substitutes for Mulder and Scully, LOL.
Poor Mum, she was *VERY* glad when TXF ended because she said i didn't have a life because i was obsessed with that "friggin' t.v show", "now you can move on, no more silly obsessing over imaginary characters". At the time i was already into HP, but she didn't know, and i didn't want to burst her bubble .
Sheppard/Weir is the first couple i get so into after TXF ended, there just hasn't been any other characters that i find so interesting, so hot, and with so much UST and chemistry between them, ever since Mulder/Scully.
Well, maybe Zoe/Tom from Spooks, but Matthew left the show, and then Keeley left too, and that pretty much sunk the ship (i was so debastated ).
I think the word for Shep/Teyla will always be *FORCED*, it was so in your face in the beginning, and still seems so when tptb get all silly and try to shove it down our throats. I don't have much faith in tptb, but it seems impossible that even they can be *that* stupid.
I don't push for RST, for me friendship for now looks good, what we've gotten so far keeps me happy. I feel season five or six would be good to start thinking about RST. But it all depends on how the show goes,, what happens, where Sheppard and Weir go characterwise.
For Mulder and Scully season five would've been perfect (post cancer), but CC and company wasted the chance. So if some event brings Sheppard and Weir as close as the cancer did for Mulder/Scully, it could be the cathalyst. In terms of resolution i've always felt there is nothing like a near death experience. I believe we've talked about this before here. Nothing like showing Sheppard a dying Weir (preferably bleeding, and lots of angst) to make him realize the extent of his feelings. I don't think they'll do that though, because they're tptb, and tptb are dumb.

[Chrysalis]

Yes! I do too! It starts out the same way - two people who have opposing viewpoints that are thrown together. Over time, they learn to trust each other, use each others strengths, and become the closest of friends.

So True. Mulder and Scully were the believer and the sceptic, John and Elizabeth are the military mind versus the pacifist. Just as different when you think about it. One more idealistic than the other --- Mulder and Elizabeth the idealists...

[sunny]

Hatch: I watched the first seven seasons of SG-1 in about six weeks, summer before last. God knows what I'd do with a virtually unlimited supply of shows.

Don't you guys LOVE TV on DVD... There really is no reason to watch regular TV anymore... Just wait till it comes out on DVD cos then you get all the extra pretties w/it.

MSR: C'mon who DIDN'T ship them... I mean I know there are some who don't, cos well let's face it they kinda screwed it up in the last two seasons ... But it was the sublety that sold it. They had a lot of eyese... gazefests. That whole 'touch of the hand is equivalent to a love scene' thing going on... TH/JF do the same thing... two words: CHEM ISTRY.

& y'all are EVIL w/those mints

[Qasim]

Don't you guys LOVE TV on DVD... There really is no reason to watch regular TV anymore... Just wait till it comes out on DVD cos then you get all the extra pretties w/it.

*cough* Shep/Weir *cough*

[xfkirsten]

MSR: C'mon who DIDN'T ship them... I mean I know there are some who don't, cos well let's face it they kinda screwed it up in the last two seasons ... But it was the sublety that sold it. They had a lot of eyese... gazefests. That whole 'touch of the hand is equivalent to a love scene' thing going on... TH/JF do the same thing... two words: CHEM ISTRY.

There were people who shipped Skinner and Scully... and freakishly enough, there's people who ship Caldwell and Weir... *dies*

I did, however, always think that Skinner and Scully's mom would have be cute together.

[sunny]

Yeah, but for those who are cabley challenged like me have to wait for it to come out on DVD in order to actually see it.

Skinner/Scully? Really? That's kinda weird cos he married her stand in, so...

[Erised]

For Mulder and Scully season five would've been perfect (post cancer), but CC and company wasted the chance. So if some event brings Sheppard and Weir as close as the cancer did for Mulder/Scully, it could be the cathalyst. In terms of resolution i've always felt there is nothing like a near death experience. I believe we've talked about this before here. Nothing like showing Sheppard a dying Weir (preferably bleeding, and lots of angst) to make him realize the extent of his feelings. I don't think they'll do that though, because they're tptb, and tptb are dumb.

oooh good post!
Not "dying Liz" though... "near death but will survive Liz" is better. I feel kind of guilty that I (and probably everyone else) want either Lizzie or John to be on a near-death situation, because that is when we get those intense sparky moments. I really hope there is something in Allies that will put Elizabeth in danger (not John!!! Too many near death experiences for one season and too many *Elizabeth's feelings only!*)
-------------------
Alyssa and me are talking on MSN right now and just finished discussing how TPTB write their chatacters. We came to a conclusion that Torri should write a few! Maybe even more than a few! Because if we won't get another Elizabeth-focused episode, I will scream!! Okay, it doesn't have to be Elizabeth-centered, but it has to show her very strong leadership skills and her as a very strong female leader, show us a very, very awesome Elizabeth! TPTB clearly cannot write female characters. They only show us Elizabeth's feelings! ANd because of this, I feel bad for Elizabeth. Come on! Guys have feelings too! Show us John's heart racing and feelings pouring through the roof! (how many times have I said this in the last few days? Probably will be easier to put it in my siggy)

Anyway...alyssa made an interesting comment in MSN. You know how Joe wrote in Epiphany

Spoiler:

and there was a sparky moment at the end? Elizabeth going off-world to resque John; Elizabeth helping him get up after the beast battle; Elizabeth asking him if he was okay; Elizabeth making a comment about his beard; Elizabeth smiling at him so much!

Do you guys think it was Joe who wrote it or TPTB added their own touch by bringing in the sparky?

[Qasim]

Anyway...alyssa made an interesting comment. You know how Joe wrote in Epiphany

Spoiler:

and there was a sparky moment at the end? Elizabeth going off-world to resque John; Elizabeth helping him get up after the beast battle; Elizabeth asking him if he was okay; Elizabeth making a comment about his beard; Elizabeth smiling at him so much!
Do you guys think it was Joe who wrote it or TPTB added their own touch by bringing in the sparky?

Joe Joe Joe

[sunny]

Joe

It's funny watchin 'The Episode that shall not be named from Season 1' cos of Torri's commentary... My bro couldn't stand watching it for more than ten minutes. He was like: "Is there a reason why this one sucks?" So I made him watch it w/the commentary... Heck I didn't even watch it the first time around, as soon as I saw who wrote it I put the commentary on...

Geez, how many times can you say commentary in one post?

[xfkirsten]

Skinner/Scully? Really? That's kinda weird cos he married her stand in, so...

Yeah, there's plenty of stories about Skinner/Scully over at Gossamer. I totally don't see it, but people see strange things.