Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[gambit]

And there I go with the not researching enough again. Still, I think it's probably more the exception than the rule. The impression we've gotten in the series is that John had never commanded anything, but as a major, he would have been in charge of quite a few people.

I think my point still stands, though. He's never been in the middle of a civil war in Mali, for example, where Elizabeth probably has. Sure, he'd seen combat, but he probably wouldn't have been on the ground to see children dying until he got to the Pegasus galaxy.

I never got the impression that he never commanded anything, but more like the Air Force just didn't trust him anymore. From watching 'Rising' again recently, he knew what he was doing and how to command.

And I still think he handles himself a little too well on the ground to have never seen that kind of combat, before the Pegasus galaxy.

[xkawaiix]

Does anyone have any linkage to some fluffy Sparky? Just finished watching a depressing movie (The Notebook lol -teary smile-) and could use a lift.

[Easter Lily]

So true! The thing with Zoe and Wash, though was that they were essentially a married couple from the beginning, as far as we were concerned, apart from a few flashbacks. We accepted them as a couple, and they almost had a reverse situation --- him staying on Serenity while she went off to work with Mal. That made them interesting.
I think that when working with pairings that develop over time when they see the chemistry between the characters, writers get completely lost! They don't know what to do!
Actually, look at The Practice, for those who watched it. Bobby and Lindsay. Great pair. Really good --- then they were married off, had a baby, got boring, got a divorce and Lindsay disappeared... I think. I don't remember her final episodes.

With Sheppard and Weir, it's not that I'm particularly worried about the post-coupling syndrome... it's more to do with the fact that the writers need to justify to the audience why these two people should be together. It's not enough for them or us to say that they have natural chemistry because chemistry is elusive... At least half of fandom obviously don't want any ship in Stargate and as it is the PTB have gargantuan task in front of them to convince that other half to come on board. Now to do so they have to build it up gradually. Romance has to be earned... it's not a given... which is what's wrong with the whole S/J thing because they assumed that people should just accept it because they put it into Season X Episode X... and then totally ignored it the rest of the time.
The writers, if they are headed in this direction, need to tell us why Sheppard and Weir should be a couple. Now we know why... but not everyone thinks the same. Telling us why is just one thing but they need to follow it up with proof that they should be together. You can tell I'm not into romantic flicks that have couples drawn together purely by destiny.

[Blue Banrigh]

Does anyone have any linkage to some fluffy Sparky? Just finished watching a depressing movie (The Notebook lol -teary smile-) and could use a lift.

Hibernation by Timeboundpythia is rather adorable.

[Bama]

It is really important for the writers to convince the viewer or to justify to the viewer why this relationship deserves to be.... and it's not some extraneous feature that annoys half of fandom.

To me the journey is as important, or more important than the destination.

Yes, yes, yes.

That's very similar to how I feel EL. I loved M and S because, beyond the chemistry, at the end of the day, I felt for them that there was no one else that could understand them as well. They'd taken such a journey together and they'd shared so much and through hell and back for and with each other. I think we have seen groundwork laid for that sort of angsty, deep type of sacrificial relationship between shep and weir. Now, the writers need to go deeper and harsher. They need to make them bleed and let them patch each other up. They need to show them and us why the heck they need each other so much. Elizabeth told Caldwell

Spoiler:

they'd been through "a lot together" as justification for her 'extra feelings' for John.

And indeed they have but not enough yet. I want them to need each other with a burn inside and I'm not talking just of the sexual here though I think that's a given if they reach the emotional plane I think they can reach with each other. I want them to know there's no one else in the galaxy that can understand them like the other can or can heal them like the other can. They already gravitate toward each other and naturally seek each other out. tptb has established that 'secret bond' beautifully. Now, we need to see the *whys*. That's what I want to see character/shippy wise for them the next year or two as it unfolds. Why them? I want them to begin to not only realize there's something extra and special there but also explore the nature of it within themselves as they relate to each other.

[xkawaiix]

Hibernation by Timeboundpythia is rather adorable.

Thanks! Love the sig btw.

[Chrysalis]

It doesn't matter that it's a manipulation. It actually makes me feel better that it's not a real shot. Sci Fi people must know a lot more about the show and where it's headed, so the fact that they did a manip like that just confirms that our ship is the right one

I see that as a good sign too. It means that they've gone out of their way to put the two of them in that pic together. They could have gone with any number of pairings --- Shep/Teyla, Shep/Rodney... any number. They went with Shep/Weir. Is that just because they're the leaders, do you think?

[Bama]

On a moot point, wasn't she also mourning Teyla and Ronon?

Who's face do you honestly believe was running through her mind at that moment? Hint: not teyla or ronon's.

And a big ol FAT welcome to you Rey! I don't know if I've missed you around here or you're new but regardless: A big HONKIN welcome from me!
Have a Shep on the house...:

[Chrysalis]

With Sheppard and Weir, it's not that I'm particularly worried about the post-coupling syndrome... it's more to do with the fact that the writers need to justify to the audience why these two people should be together. It's not enough for them or us to say that they have natural chemistry because chemistry is elusive... At least half of fandom obviously don't want any ship in Stargate and as it is the PTB have gargantuan task in front of them to convince that other half to come on board. Now to do so they have to build it up gradually. Romance has to be earned... it's not a given... which is what's wrong with the whole S/J thing because they assumed that people should just accept it because they put it into Season X Episode X... and then totally ignored it the rest of the time.
The writers, if they are headed in this direction, need to tell us why Sheppard and Weir should be a couple. Now we know why... but not everyone thinks the same. Telling us why is just one thing but they need to follow it up with proof that they should be together. You can tell I'm not into romantic flicks that have couples drawn together purely by destiny.

I'm one of those people who doesn't understand the people who don't want ship of any kind on Atlantis. They don't want to know what the connections are between the characters, whether it's John and Elizabeth or John and Rodney, or Rodney and Carson. When I say ship, I'm also talking friendship!

The thing that some people don't understand is that emotional investment in each other from one character to another, actually increases the urgency and action within a series like this. It doesn't have to be overtly shippy. A connection can be as much as John and Rodney annoy the hell out of each other, but they'd hate to lose each other because they're buddies really, they just don't want to admit it.

As for John and Elizabeth. They need to go very slowly with it. Even Torri said that. You can't have Elizabeth running around holding hands with Sheppard. It needs to be progressive.

[Erised]

I see that as a good sign too. It means that they've gone out of their way to put the two of them in that pic together. They could have gone with any number of pairings --- Shep/Teyla, Shep/Rodney... any number. They went with Shep/Weir. Is that just because they're the leaders, do you think?

Nooo No way. They put them way too close to each other. This is the "couple" position. It could also be a size issue. The banner has to be a certain width; but, somehow, I don't think this is the case

[Bama]

With Sheppard and Weir, it's not that I'm particularly worried about the post-coupling syndrome... it's more to do with the fact that the writers need to justify to the audience why these two people should be together. It's not enough for them or us to say that they have natural chemistry because chemistry is elusive... At least half of fandom obviously don't want any ship in Stargate and as it is the PTB have gargantuan task in front of them to convince that other half to come on board. Now to do so they have to build it up gradually. Romance has to be earned... it's not a given... which is what's wrong with the whole S/J thing because they assumed that people should just accept it because they put it into Season X Episode X... and then totally ignored it the rest of the time.
The writers, if they are headed in this direction, need to tell us why Sheppard and Weir should be a couple. Now we know why... but not everyone thinks the same. Telling us why is just one thing but they need to follow it up with proof that they should be together. You can tell I'm not into romantic flicks that have couples drawn together purely by destiny.

Oddly enough, I'm not worried about awkwardness or post coupling syn. between them either EL. I actually think they're more well adjusted and mature in that area than other couples I've followed. It's not the success of the physical or their handling of such that bothers me in the least. It's making the love worth everything to them. This one has a much bigger potential than s/j imo, to be a 'grand scale' type romance/relationship. It has the potential to matter in very important ways to the success of them as leaders and individual decision makers. I don't want the 'romance' to be a side-show, I want it to be intregal and natural within the bigger story of the reformation of the great old city of Atlantis. I'm not one for those quick romances either which is why I usually find movie romances far less than satisfying. What is romantic about a quickie? What is romantic about tumbling someone you've known all of a week? What is romantic about having nothing but lust for the good-looking alien chick of the week?
Nada. Nothing. A momentary 'whee!' followed by 'But what now?' I want them to *know* it's the special one they *have* to fight for. I want them to *realize* that they're less without the other and have the potential to be so much more with them. I want it all for Shep and Weir. And I want them to show themselves *ready* to deserve it when 'all' finally arrives.

Is that too much to ask?

[xkawaiix]

Oddly enough, I'm not worried about awkwardness or post coupling syn. between them either EL. I actually think they're more well adjusted and mature in that area than other couples I've followed. It's not the success of the physical or their handling of such that bothers me in the least. It's making the love worth everything to them. This one has a much bigger potential than s/j imo, to be a 'grand scale' type romance/relationship. It has the potential to matter in very important ways to the success of them as leaders and individual decision makers. I don't want the 'romance' to be a side-show, I want it to be intregal and natural within the bigger story of the reformation of the great old city of Atlantis. I'm not one for those quick romances either which is why I usually find movie romances far less than satisfying. What is romantic about a quickie? What is romantic about tumbling someone you've known all of a week? What is romantic about having nothing but lust for the good-looking alien chick of the week?
Nada. Nothing. A momentary 'whee!' followed by 'But what now?' I want them to *know* it's the special one they *have* to fight for. I want them to *realize* that they're less without the other and have the potential to be so much more with them. I want it all for Shep and Weir. And I want them to show themselves *ready* to deserve it when 'all' finally arrives.

Is that too much to ask?

I agree whole heartedly with this post. I think that ship should be able to contribute to the show without over powering it and taking full control, but at the same time, giving them time to show them growing and strengthening their bond with each other. To put it plain and simple: all of the above.

John's gals of the week are anything but romantic. I mean, take Skanktuary. That seriously takes "Love at first sight" to a whole new level. How much time did they spent with each other anyway? 1-3 days? And with the others, they pretty much

Spoiler:

used him.

(Not all of them but a good number.) That should say something to Shep, but I should save that for the STAKS thread.

Spoiler:

And I think that seeing Shep do this hurts Elizabeth and I believe that they spoke about it at the end of The Tower?

Just adding, bravo Bama, excellent post.

[Easter Lily]

I'm one of those people who doesn't understand the people who don't want ship of any kind on Atlantis. They don't want to know what the connections are between the characters, whether it's John and Elizabeth or John and Rodney, or Rodney and Carson. When I say ship, I'm also talking friendship!

I think it is both a reaction and a protective layer... For many people S/J was a debacle of the highest kind so they don't want TPTB to go down that road again. Also, I think people don't want to get hurt by the whole ship issue yet again... they invested a great deal of their emotions into S/J and it turned out to be a dead end. Stargate doesn't have a great history writing ship so for many people it's all or nothing.
I'm ambivalent about their ability to write good ship at the moment... I would like to be proven wrong eventually because I love the idea of Sheppard and Weir. Think of all that angst that could be had... (sorry, I'm beginning to sound like a broken record)
I like the idea of S/W more than I do of Lee and Kara on BSG (and that's another pairing that I'm very fond of) because S/W are mature, level-headed individuals. They're more my age (or older) and have a depth of life experiences. So when they do take the plunge, it would be for the best reasons. Ideally speaking anyway.

As for John and Elizabeth. They need to go very slowly with it. Even Torri said that. You can't have Elizabeth running around holding hands with Sheppard. It needs to be progressive.

I don't think anyone expects that... and I heard Torri say something similar... but it would be nice to have them both having more interaction between themselves and with the rest of the team.
Critical Mass was great... it had the whole team thing happening and also had nice S/W moments... Huzzah for Carl Binder!

[Chrysalis]

Oddly enough, I'm not worried about awkwardness or post coupling syn. between them either EL. I actually think they're more well adjusted and mature in that area than other couples I've followed. It's not the success of the physical or their handling of such that bothers me in the least. It's making the love worth everything to them. This one has a much bigger potential than s/j imo, to be a 'grand scale' type romance/relationship. It has the potential to matter in very important ways to the success of them as leaders and individual decision makers. I don't want the 'romance' to be a side-show, I want it to be intregal and natural within the bigger story of the reformation of the great old city of Atlantis. I'm not one for those quick romances either which is why I usually find movie romances far less than satisfying. What is romantic about a quickie? What is romantic about tumbling someone you've known all of a week? What is romantic about having nothing but lust for the good-looking alien chick of the week?
Nada. Nothing. A momentary 'whee!' followed by 'But what now?' I want them to *know* it's the special one they *have* to fight for. I want them to *realize* that they're less without the other and have the potential to be so much more with them. I want it all for Shep and Weir. And I want them to show themselves *ready* to deserve it when 'all' finally arrives.

Is that too much to ask?

Not too much to ask, Bama! This is what I'm talking about when I say they need to develop all the relationships to really give a sense of urgency and desperation to what they're doing. Yes, they're defending and protecting the city, but they're also defending each other.

With John and Elizabeth, you have two people thrown into a situation they didn't expect. At first they had to rely on each other, but they've come to be happy to rely on each other. That can easily develop. Especially now with Caldwell in the picture. He has the potential to bring them closer. We've already seen how John reacts when Elizabeth isn't in the loop -- he's defensive and he backs her.

That's all going to develop if --- as you've said --- they get smart and play this out slowly over the next couple of years.

[Easter Lily]

Oddly enough, I'm not worried about awkwardness or post coupling syn. between them either EL. I actually think they're more well adjusted and mature in that area than other couples I've followed. It's not the success of the physical or their handling of such that bothers me in the least. It's making the love worth everything to them. This one has a much bigger potential than s/j imo, to be a 'grand scale' type romance/relationship.

I would like to think that Sanctuary and The Tower are the exception rather than the rule where Sheppard's maturity is concerned... But other than that, I agree... I do like them as individuals and as a duo (romantic or otherwise)... They could be a formidable force as a team and I think perhaps that is where the writing of ship could find its basis in... A team within a team...

Well, ppl know how I feel about S/J by now, so I won't harp on it. But S/J lacked a grounding that I look for in a relationship. With Sheppard and Weir, I feel that there is a strong basis from which to work from... that they are connected first of all as the leaders of a large facility so far from home and so it make sense to me that they would find solace in one another's company.