John Sheppard Discussion/Appreciation

[Ruffles]

Yep. I saw that promo. I just laughed! It was silly, to be honest. I don't know why some were so offended by it really. The Tower was a bit of fluff, and so was the promo. Thank goodness they've not done that again though

I wasn't offended by the ad (or the ep). I think dismayed would be a more appropriate term.

I think the advertising people at SciFi need help. LOTS of help.

[maxbo]

My only concern with that is the show turning into BSG in Pegasus. I like the subtle hints you get about romance without it being blatant. If they can write relationships without it getting soap operaish (is that a word?) then OK, but somehow I doubt it. I don't want to lose the team aspect or the adventure to who-is-sleeping-with-whom.

After the wonderful job they did with shipping in SG-1, I don't think we'll have to worry about SGA going the BSG route. However, if TPTB could stick with episodes like Poisioning the Well, Sanctuary and The Brotherhood, then I wouldn't mind seeing romance/relationship type of episodes.

I think a lot of those "Kirk" comments resulted from some of the advertising in S2 (especially The Tower: "John Sheppard, Babe Magnet"). AARRRGGHHH!!

*AARRRGGHHH!!* is right. Although I laughed when I saw it, I doubt that this ad drew in many new viewers. Why? Because it didn't accurately represent SGA. According to that ad, if you tuned into SGA you would see "Babe Magnet" Shep score with lots of half-naked women and we know that's not true.

So, those who wanted to see lots of scoring were probably disappointed after a few episodes and those who weren't interested in seeing alot of scoring just never tuned in.

[Ruffles]

After the wonderful job they did with shipping in SG-1, I don't think we'll have to worry about SGA going the BSG route. However, if TPTB could stick with episodes like Poisioning the Well, Sanctuary and The Brotherhood, then I wouldn't mind seeing romance/relationship type of episodes.

*AARRRGGHHH!!* is right. Although I laughed when I saw it, I doubt that this ad drew in many new viewers. Why? Because it didn't accurately represent SGA. According to that ad, if you tuned into SGA you would see "Babe Magnet" Shep score with lots of half-naked women and we know that's not true.

So, those who wanted to see lots of scoring were probably disappointed after a few episodes and those who weren't interested in seeing alot of scoring just never tuned in.

ITA. It just didn't represent SGA (or the ep for that matter). Of course, IMHO, it wasn't a very good ep and could have been so much better. To be targeted for the ATA gene has so much potential.

Spoiler:

*keeping fingers crossed for Travellers*

I liked the little shippy hints on SG-1 for a while. But eventually, I thought "ENOUGH - either get together or move on!". I prefer very background - "________ and I had a date last night." or "So, how are things with you and ________?" Make a decision and stick with it. I liked the little comment in The Return Pt 1

Spoiler:

by Beckett that he and Cadman weren't seeing each other anymore. Just enough to let you know he had a life beyond what we saw but not so much to detract from the true spirit of SGA.

Sunday

Spoiler:

began pushing it too much for me. I like the hints into their personal lives (Lorne paints!) and the fact that they discuss relationships, but when they start pairing off....

Anyway, that's just me.

[*Erika*]

ITA. It just didn't represent SGA (or the ep for that matter). Of course, IMHO, it wasn't a very good ep and could have been so much better. To be targeted for the ATA gene has so much potential.

Spoiler:

*keeping fingers crossed for Travellers*

I liked the little shippy hints on SG-1 for a while. But eventually, I thought "ENOUGH - either get together or move on!". I prefer very background - "________ and I had a date last night." or "So, how are things with you and ________?" Make a decision and stick with it. I liked the little comment in The Return Pt 1

Spoiler:

by Beckett that he and Cadman weren't seeing each other anymore. Just enough to let you know he had a life beyond what we saw but not so much to detract from the true spirit of SGA.

Sunday

Spoiler:

began pushing it too much for me. I like the hints into their personal lives (Lorne paints!) and the fact that they discuss relationships, but when they start pairing off....

Anyway, that's just me.

ITA. I love those little lines that makes us see how their lives run outside the screentime. Shipping can be annoying after some time, you either go for it or forget it, because all these go, don't go is boring.

[maxbo]

ITA. It just didn't represent SGA (or the ep for that matter). Of course, IMHO, it wasn't a very good ep and could have been so much better. To be targeted for the ATA gene has so much potential.

That's why The Tower annoys me so. If TPTB wanted to do goofy and light-hearted then they shouldn't have picked a topic that had so much potential. I've been waiting for TPTB to remember that Shep's ATA gene is much stronger than most ever since The Rising and use this fact in a good storyline. Instead of a good Shep/ATA gene storyline, we got The Tower. URRRGGGH!!!

Spoiler:

*keeping fingers crossed for Travellers*

Me too. No matter what, it can't be worst than The Tower for me.

I liked the little shippy hints on SG-1 for a while. But eventually, I thought "ENOUGH - either get together or move on!". I prefer very background - "________ and I had a date last night." or "So, how are things with you and ________?" Make a decision and stick with it. I liked the little comment in The Return Pt 1

Spoiler:

by Beckett that he and Cadman weren't seeing each other anymore. Just enough to let you know he had a life beyond what we saw but not so much to detract from the true spirit of SGA.

Sunday

Spoiler:

began pushing it too much for me. I like the hints into their personal lives (Lorne paints!) and the fact that they discuss relationships, but when they start pairing off....

Anyway, that's just me.

I agree, I can't see overt ship working in the Stargate universe so I hope there are no plans to go the Sam and Jack route for SGA. From what I've seen, none of the various groups is satisfied with how they handled the Sam and Jack situation. TPTB didn't go far enough for the shippers and they went too far for the non-shippers. Way to go, TPTB.

[bluealien]

I don't think we ever have to worry about the show becoming too soap operish and its certaintly no BSG. We all enjoy the show for different reasons and I don't have a problem with shipping once it's done well. Relationships are part of life and actually can bring more depth and understanding to the characters. I have no problem with seeing characters show feelings or care about one another - if its a natural progression of the show. I don't think we will ever see anything overtly shippy - it will always be subtle.

So why can't we all just enjoy the different aspects of the show whether that be shipping, whumping, special effects or whatever. Life would be boring if we all liked the same things.

[aaobuttons]

Less than 2 weeks before the Stargate Fan Awards nomination phase comes to an end! www.stargatefanawards.com

[SazZat]

Just digging this topic up because I've just seen that there is an 'anti-Sheppard' thread and I was like what the frell?!

Again the subject of 'kirking' had come up when I was just reading through. As far as I'm aware he didn't even speak to a woman who was outside of the expedition, all season 3.
Not sure why people like to cling to the whole 'kirk' thing...Just seems a bit dated and a joke by McKay that has been taken too seriously by some people.
How many girls have we actually seen him with sinse Atlantis started:
1) Chaya - which I have no problem with. I thought it was a cute episode just to lighten things up early in the season.

2) Teer - he was on that world for 6 months! I mean come on, that's not exactly 'kirking' deciding to try a relationship with her after that long.

3) I can't even remember the name of the girl in The Tower, but really I didn't like that episode as a whole so I sort of just erase it from my mind. Totally can't be taken seriously. It was a joke ep in my opinion.

That's all I can think of. Basically, I actually think McKay has seen more action than Shep

I'm free of rant now *le sigh* just needed to get that off my chest.

[pilgrim soul]

I couldn't agree with you more, I'm sorry but he's an attractive, single man, I don't expect him to live like a monk no more than I expect any of the other characters to. And as you have pointed out, how many women has he actually "kirked" in the past three years? Quite frankly I would think the poor guy takes a lot of cold showers.

Yes he can be an atrocious flirt sometimes but we've never seen him treat a woman badly in fact he is often quite shy and sweet around women - he certainly was around Chaya who he seemed to fall head over heels for and with Teer who, as you have pointed out, he knew for months before anything happened between them.

I have never understood why this is such an issue, it's got completely overblown to the point where he can't smile at a woman without people getting up in arms about it.

[*Erika*]

ITA. I have no idea why people pick on him like that. Like Josie said, he's often very sweet and shy around women *sighs*. Of course he flirts sometimes, but he's a guy and he also respects women and never treated them badly. The guy is more like a monk than anyone. C'mon McKay has a more active sexual life then Sheppard! Not to mention that McKay is not the shining example of good way with women, the way he was around Sam on SG1 comes to my mind.

[SazZat]

ITA. I have no idea why people pick on him like that. Like Josie said, he's often very sweet and shy around women *sighs*. Of course he flirts sometimes, but he's a guy and he also respects women and never treated them badly. The guy is more like a monk than anyone. C'mon McKay has a more active sexual life then Sheppard! Not to mention that McKay is not the shining example of good way with women, the way he was around Sam on SG1 comes to my mind.

Exactly. I love Rodney, but really he has no idea when it comes to women. Shep is a true gentleman. He knows how to make a woman feel good about herself and he plays up the flirting sometimes because of that. Rodney is the complete opposite. He thinks he's flirting but really it's very distasteful most of the time (except with Katie who he obviously holds higher opinion for than any ordinary girl).

Shep is a charmer. He's the perfect gentleman. He treats women with respect and he knows just how far he can push the flirty/playful barrier before it becomes distasteful and immature. So he makes a great friend for the ladies as well because he is almost like the 'relax' and 'smile' aspect of Atlantis.

Guys who like to make girls smile are too few and far between in this world. I'd feel chuffed to find a nice guy like Shep who could make me laugh and be a bit of a flirt, but also treat me with respect.

[*Erika*]

Exactly. I love Rodney, but really he has no idea when it comes to women. Shep is a true gentleman. He knows how to make a woman feel good about herself and he plays up the flirting sometimes because of that. Rodney is the complete opposite. He thinks he's flirting but really it's very distasteful most of the time (except with Katie who he obviously holds higher opinion for than any ordinary girl).

Shep is a charmer. He's the perfect gentleman. He treats women with respect and he knows just how far he can push the flirty/playful barrier before it becomes distasteful and immature. So he makes a great friend for the ladies as well because he is almost like the 'relax' and 'smile' aspect of Atlantis.

Guys who like to make girls smile are too few and far between in this world. I'd feel chuffed to find a nice guy like Shep who could make me laugh and be a bit of a flirt, but also treat me with respect.

*sighs*

[Killdeer]

I'm digging this thread up because we have some lovely spoilers about an episode with a strong chance of backstory for Shep. Is anyone interested in discussing? Or anything else about Shep in S4?

[poundpuppy29]

here is a post from the Anti 4 thread that a wonderful person did about Sheppard great analysis

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....postcount=1878

*Anuna is back to do professional analysis*



(but you were not so bad yourselves, guys!!)



I know this is the anti thread, and not character study thread, so I'll put everything under spoiler tabs, so who doesn't want to read my ramble, can easily skip. To stay on topic, let me just say, S4 sucks. There you go. Now let's look into Sheps head.

Spoiler:

The coin tossing scene tells pretty much everything about him. Like crazylizzie said, it struck a chord. I instantly liked him, actually no - I liked his reaction when he was back with O'Neill in helicopter. he was given a lifetime opportunity and yet he was so reluctant to leave the career that really truly sucked. i mean, USAF officer who's ass is freezing off in Antartica, and he claims he likes it there. You believed him? When I saw the coin tossing scene I did. That was the lonliest man on earth.



On with the analysis. There is something that psychotherapists call "be strong" personality. Both Shep and Ronon belong into this chategory. But I'll concentrate on Shep this time.



"Be strong" characters are truly amazing people - they don't whine, they will always be there to help you, even through the worse (remember episodes like Sateda); they won't complain. They are loyal, they give a lot,b ut they don't ask and recieve attention from people in return. Why? Their deepest fear is that they are not worthy of being loved and cared about - and if they let people get close to them, they are exposed and take a risk to be abandoned. And being abandoned is their greatest fear, because it confirms the deeply rooted belief they are not worthy of love. Those people don't fear death as much as being left behind and forgotten. on the other hand they can lay their lives for others - the ultimate giving gesture.

Now you could say 'Shep isn't really like that' but here are my arguments.



He likes Antartica. He is alone, isolated, doesn't need to be close and connected to anyone - and that is fine by him. After he failed to save those teammates in Afganistan, military punished him (for doing something that was a good deed and his duty - in his eyes - because he doesn't leave his people behind; and that is not only a military motto, but for him it's a life motto too). If military was something like a family for him before afganistan, or at least a structure with rules where he felt safe and was able to do something good, that "family" confirmed his deep belief: he isn't worthy (of being loved, cared about, respected...). When he is offered the chance to actually get out of Antartica, the prospect of losing that safety scares him. There will be new people and he might get to like them. And that could hurt him and prove all over again, that he is not worthy of human contact.



Coin tossing. Look at his face expression. Doesn't he look sad and alone? And yes, there are no flashbacks, no family, no friends. He is literally alone. The worse thing happened to him - there is nobody who'd confirm he is a worthy human being.



Women. Kissing them left and right is done for fun, but there are no really deep feelings. We know he was married and that it didn't work out. It's not easy to be married to "be strong" person. It's a hard job to get feelings out of them, they hide them,a nd no matter how much you try to give them something back (love, affection...) they don't take it - they don't believe they deserve it. Shep's ex probbably felt she couldn't reach him at some point and left him, which proved, in his eyes, he was no marriage/ deep and meaningful relationship material. So flirting is fine. But no love.



But no matter how careful he is, and how much he tried to distance himself from people and not let them inside his walls (and he does have them); he begins liking Atlantis and people there. You can't really turn your heart off. So what happens? he has found a new gamily to which he is deeply loyal. he doesn't ask much, but he is ready to sacrifice himself in any way to keep them and the city safe. Examples - The Eye, Siege 2, The Real World. Loosing that new family, and people who accept him for what he is, is more scaring prospect than dieing in order to save them.



That brings me to "Epiphany" and his beard. At first I thought the beard was there to show how much time has passed since he entered the time dilation field, but later I wondered why he didn't shave it off?? I wathced episode once, but couldn't reach conclusion until I made a video concentrated around that particular episode. He never liked the beard. The fact is - he neglected himself in a way because he was generally feeling down. He didn't know why he was left behind for such a long time, and nobody came to bring him home. Did his friends give up on him? All the while he refused to truly join the new community he found himself in. he never really fell in love with Teer, he kept a significant distance. When the team finally came for him, first thing he did was to yell at them - he expected them to care. he was terrified he would be abandoned again.



To sum things up, think of his talk with Teyla in "Sateda". Teyla did a great job of analyzing him IIRC. (she could be a great psychologist!) But he didn't feel very good when she confronted him with things that he usually hides (the most wulnerable aspects of his personality). by the end of the conversation he can't even look back at her.



The flyboy attitude, snark, smartass comments, flirting - all of that is a mask underneath which is a person that is hungry for care and affection, but to scared to ask that from people.

Huh! There you go. Hope you are satisfied. Everything that I said about Shep is something I learned "reading between the lines" - because I am actually trained to do that, but I agree - it would be nice to learn something about his past "for real".

I thought all Shep fans would like this. It gave me great insight about Shep and helped me understand him better.

[Linzi]

here is a post from the Anti 4 thread that a wonderful person did about Sheppard great analysis

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....postcount=1878



I thought all Shep fans would like this. It gave me great insight about Shep and helped me understand him better.

A very interesting and perceptive anlaysis. Thanks for quoting it. I agree with most things, actually, except about the end of Sateda. I have a different take on that.

Spoiler:

I think Sheppard wanted to talk to Teyla about his fondness for the team - it was as if he was getting everything off his chest to let her now how much everyone means to him. He didn't have to have the conversation go the way it did, he brought up about how much everyone means to him. Teyla just came to him to thank him for trying to save Ronon, and I think he talked about his feelings because - as difficult as it was for him - he wanted to. He struggled to get the words out, but the way he patted her hand at the end of the scene struck me as him saying thanks to her for listening and understanding what he was saying. I think he was embarrassed about talking about his emotions/feelings certainly, but that it was just his embarrassment at discussing these things with Teyla that made him avoid eye contact with her, in case he became too emotional. So, I don't think she made him confront anything, or made him feel bad so he couldn't look at her. In fact, I saw Teyla as trying to help Sheppard to get his words out, as the silences were embarrassing. He was the one expressing his love for his friends, and nobody made him do that - he did that all by himself, which as a Sheppard fan, I loved seeing. We never usually get to see Sheppard show his feeings, and be so open. Albeit in an agonisingly slow and uncomfortable way!!! That's my take on his character in that scene.