Wraith Defenders Club

[dasNdanger]

Spoiler:

I don't know, I interpreted the same scene otherwise: To me, it seemed that he doesn't care much about pointless pleasure. I believe he likes feeding on humans more because it gives him his strength, ability to heal and longevity, as Kenny explains, than because he enjoys it. He is a pragmatist.

Spoiler:

This is very true. That is a bit of what I mean...normal food is of no interest to him because he's not indulgent (like Shawn), and gains all he needs now from his human meals. If Todd were human, he'd be a meat and potatoes man, and wouldn't touch that fancy crap Mallozzi eats.

@ das here is this Song in Orginal and Yes it´s a song for Children:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=KoeXCqw_OrM

I hope I could help you

You did! Now I can hear it in my head, along with the Wraithy lyrics! Thanks!

das

[Lythisrose]

Spoiler:

This is very true. That is a bit of what I mean...normal food is of no interest to him because he's not indulgent (like Shawn), and gains all he needs now from his human meals. If Todd were human, he'd be a meat and potatoes man, and wouldn't touch that fancy crap Mallozzi eats.

Re the above, it made me think that Todd combines the best aspects of the three human leads of the show; John, Rodney and Ronon.
He's brave, intelligent, a warrior.. and he's snarky too.

[naamiaiset]

I don't know if this has been brought up before...

in "michael", it doesn't say how wraith michael is captured. I don't think the team just stumbled upon him out alone somewhere or boarded his hive (although, they have a reputation for being that dumb). maybe they picked up on wraith activity in an area and captured him that way? anyone have any theories?

[Wraith Cake]

Spoiler:

Yep, I noticed too. Yet, the way he says "it will be very difficult for me to ask those around me to give themselves over for the good of the human race" made me wonder if, for him, the good of the human race does matter. I suspect he, himself, is willing to make some concessions, although such a sacrifice is understandably hard to accept. I think he fears losing his "wraithness", not so much because of the feeding process itself but because it means altering his DNA to make him more human... Almost a hybrid like Michael. He can't like the thought.

About Todd in "The Queen":

Spoiler:

I don't know, I interpreted the same scene otherwise: To me, it seemed that he doesn't care much about pointless pleasure. I believe he likes feeding on humans more because it gives him his strength, ability to heal and longevity, as Kenny explains, than because he enjoys it. He is a pragmatist.

I totally think he's a pragmatist too

Spoiler:

I completely agree, yet again with your assessment of Todd's attitude toward feeding--he's not an idiot, he knows human beings are just as "capable and able bodied" as the wraith and that feeding is par for the course of remaining alive. Feeding for the wraith give them their strength, their healing and their longevity, but at the end of the day they can only eat humans. They can't survive on anything else. Because Todd is a pragmatist, and sees feeding also in this way he therefore is "willing" to contemplate another way of surviving. This is why, I believe Keller says "...unless you don't want it to work" Todd is now having his emotional misgivings.

I think, for a whole host of reasons based on what Todd has implied, that the wraith consider themselves a "super-human" of a sort, and they have spent their entire existence defining themselves against the human race, rather than considering a definition of the wraith in their own right, separate from the iratus bug and separate from humanity. This is what he now has to wrestle with. And the only people who can resolve this conundrum is the wraith themselves. It may be something they struggle with for a long long time.

WK

[Wraith Cake]

And by the way, I did notice one small, small detail--when Todd, Kenny and the other Wraith (Douglas, I call him...) first came on board of the Daedalus, Kenny really looked around. I wonder...

Ha ha ha, I think someone mentioned this earlier

Spoiler:

(I think it was Das). Being on that ship was like being in a wraith candy store: so many delicacies, so many tasty treats and all completely out of reach. I do wonder though, what Todd has said to these wraith to convince them to go along with his often wacky and risky plans. I mean, they too must be like minded if they are willing to "associate" with the humans the way Todd is--though Kenny never has any bones about being sarcastic with the humans. I wonder what Todd has done for them in the past, what he has meant to them personally. He obviously is a person who has the charisma and integrity to create such loyal followers.

WK

[Wraith Cake]

Spoiler:

This is very true. That is a bit of what I mean...normal food is of no interest to him because he's not indulgent (like Shawn), and gains all he needs now from his human meals. If Todd were human, he'd be a meat and potatoes man, and wouldn't touch that fancy crap Mallozzi eats.

das

That man does eat a lot of fancy fancy food eh?
Re: Todd -- It's so funny I had a completely different read from what Laura said. I love Todd, he has boundless ways of interpreting him.

WK

[Traveler64]

That man does eat a lot of fancy fancy food eh?
Re: Todd -- It's so funny I had a completely different read from what Laura said. I love Todd, he has boundless ways of interpreting him.

WK

You love Todd? I would've never guessed it.

"It would give me a moment's satisfaction, but it would not sustain me."

[GoSpikey]

On Todd:

Spoiler:

I never read it as a "Todd, buddy, your days as a feeder on humans are over, as you'll be like the second person we'll be treating with this thing of hours, and if you drop dead in the process, we don't care.

It's quite evident that it'll be first tried out on other Wraith, eg Warriors, to see if they for starters can survive on it, as they are the ones who bring the unbalance in food because of their existence, they were cloned hundred thousand times over, so they could win the war with the Atlanteans. Nowadays, they eat humans, but if you only need to stand guard in a ship, do you really need it? If you are one of the Warriors who go outside to help defend a faced Wraith, then okay, you might need to feed, if only to provide a fallen Wraith with your Gift of Life. But all the others, like Todd said, is just a waste of perfectly good resources.

Then maybe they'll test it on the lesser faced ones, or maybe they'll run a separate investigation on the Wraith children who are about to have genetic/physical changes because the feeding process is about to kick in...

This isn't something that's done in 3 days, it'll take months to go to a next step, I think. They must carefully be tested on strength, regeneration, etc.

And the results on the faced Wraith have to be VERY POSITIVE before Todd will consider it to be spread out over the true Wraith population, IF that'll ever happen.

Maybe the Lanteans are going to have to settle with the fact that the big chunk of the Warriors are no longer feeding. It would be a significant thing, already.

My two cents.

I don't know if this has been brought up before...

in "michael", it doesn't say how wraith michael is captured. I don't think the team just stumbled upon him out alone somewhere or boarded his hive (although, they have a reputation for being that dumb). maybe they picked up on wraith activity in an area and captured him that way? anyone have any theories?

Naami, I always more thought of the way they captured Steve... If they would manage to reactivate Teyla's necklace, then some Wraith and a couple of Warriors would surely come towards the signal again... Shoot the Warriors down, stun the Wraith, and voila.

I'm sure that, would he have been captured in a facility of come kind, it would have been brought up before today?

They don't really need to go into a heavily guarded Wraith area to get one...

[GoSpikey]

I'm surprised nobody has brought this up yet...

From Joe Mallozzi's blog, yesterday's entry:

Spoiler:

In the 'possible' season 6, although it was just filled out that way to put in every shelved story idea they ever had, together with potential real eps:

For what it’s worth, here is how season 6 would have probably (not) broken down:

#1 and #2: Now What I and II?: Our big two-part premiere would have picked up where we’d left off after the shocking events of our fifth season finale: Enemy at the Gate. Would have picked up? What am I saying? WILL pick up since the idea originally conceived for the opening two-parter will now be the basis of the first Stargate: Atlantis movie, the difference being that we’ll be able to tell our story on a much bigger, visual effects-laden, character-centered canvas.

What if, like I said before, Todd does indeed get betrayed by Kenny, or the third Wraith on the Daedalus, or by anyone else from his crew, or from his alliance, or something... And he joins us in the fight against them, to protect Earth/The Milky Way against Wraith intrusion?

After such a thing, Todd's entire position could be compromised! I mean, we practically *gave* him his own alliance, but is that meant to last? We'll soon know!

#10 and #11: Mid-season two parter: Had we received that sixth season pick-up, we would have inevitably tossed around ideas for a big season arc or two. Atlantis ends up trapped in a pocket of space-time that completely cuts them off from Earth? With the help of some mysterious allies, the wraith become a resurgent threat to the Pegasus Galaxy? When the Atlantis Expedition becomes the target of some well-executed attacks, it becomes clear to all that a former friend is out for revenge? You pick. Whatever the big season arc, we would have undoubtedly touched upon it here.

Todd? Ford? Todd?!? Take your pick... How many 'former' friends to the Lanteans have? If things were to go wrong in EatG/the first two eps of season 6, Todd might attack!

#16: Revenge: A certain alien race seeks revenge on Atlantis after we screw up their plans (qv that season 5 episode in which we screw up the plans of that alien race).

That's either the aliens from DV, or the ones from FC/TLT... Although, did we mess with the DV aliens' plans? Hmm... Enemies, then? That would be a shame.

#17: Payback: Not to be confused with Revenge. A certain individual seeks payback on Atlantis after we screw up said individual’s plans (qv that season 5 episode in which we screw up that individual’s plans).

Dare I? I sure do! Miiiichaaaeeelll!!!! Right? He's like the only 'individual' that has a grudge against Atlantis.

*Squeeeeeeeeeee* He'll survive The Prodigal! As we knew he would! *g*

#19: Pre-finale: Remember that big season-long arc we discussed earlier in the year? Well, this episode sets up the big pay-off.

#20: Finale: Our big VFX-studded season finale sees the pay-off to that significant story arc, the answers to lingering questions, a few surprises, and the cliff-hanger ending that will smoothly segue into our season 7 premiere…

It's okay... That Todd was only a clone! The real one is healthy, and aboard of his own trusted Hive. Phew!

There.

[dasNdanger]

I'm surprised nobody has brought this up yet...

From Joe Mallozzi's blog, yesterday's entry:

Spoiler:

In the 'possible' season 6, although it was just filled out that way to put in every shelved story idea they ever had, together with potential real eps:



What if, like I said before, Todd does indeed get betrayed by Kenny, or the third Wraith on the Daedalus, or by anyone else from his crew, or from his alliance, or something... And he joins us in the fight against them, to protect Earth/The Milky Way against Wraith intrusion?

After such a thing, Todd's entire position could be compromised! I mean, we practically *gave* him his own alliance, but is that meant to last? We'll soon know!



Todd? Ford? Todd?!? Take your pick... How many 'former' friends to the Lanteans have? If things were to go wrong in EatG/the first two eps of season 6, Todd might attack!



That's either the aliens from DV, or the ones from FC/TLT... Although, did we mess with the DV aliens' plans? Hmm... Enemies, then? That would be a shame.



Dare I? I sure do! Miiiichaaaeeelll!!!! Right? He's like the only 'individual' that has a grudge against Atlantis.

*Squeeeeeeeeeee* He'll survive The Prodigal! As we knew he would! *g*



It's okay... That Todd was only a clone! The real one is healthy, and aboard of his own trusted Hive. Phew!

There.

Spoiler:

I read that as totally different. Esp. episodes 16 & 17 - and the two-parter. I think it's Todd, and I think they're turning him into a villain, and I am heartsick over it, having read these episode ideas. Since episode 16 is an alien 'race', and 17 an alien 'individual', and the hint of a one-time 'friend' turning against them - it all smacks of Todd and the Wraith. I fear what lies ahead, especially with the finale. If they screw up Todd by turning him 'evil', I will never forgive them. And yes, I already vented on JM's blog.

Of course, it could be these new 'enemies', or Michael, or even Ladon and the Genii. But since there is hardly mention of the Wraith in those S6 episode breakdowns, I'm guessing those that are vague about the enemy must refer to the Wraith...unless, of course, the Wraith are pretty much dead by the end of S5.

I am starting to hate this show again.

das

[naamiaiset]

Spoiler:

I read that as totally different. Esp. episodes 16 & 17 - and the two-parter. I think it's Todd, and I think they're turning him into a villain, and I am heartsick over it, having read these episode ideas. Since episode 16 is an alien 'race', and 17 an alien 'individual', and the hint of a one-time 'friend' turning against them - it all smacks of Todd and the Wraith. I fear what lies ahead, especially with the finale. If they screw up Todd by turning him 'evil', I will never forgive them. And yes, I already vented on JM's blog.

Of course, it could be these new 'enemies', or Michael, or even Ladon and the Genii. But since there is hardly mention of the Wraith in those S6 episode breakdowns, I'm guessing those that are vague about the enemy must refer to the Wraith...unless, of course, the Wraith are pretty much dead by the end of S5.

I am starting to hate this show again.

Spoiler:

...or not, if wraith (at least some of todd's faction) take the treatment and are no longer "true" enemies. JM has already said wraith will continue to be a presence beyond S5, too bad he didn't say how.

it wouldn't surprise me if they make todd a villain (it's so much easier to be predictable, than creative ). I hope not, it would be such a waste. after FC, if todd steals hyperdrive information off the daedalus, he'll have everything he needs though.

but, chris did call todd the "wraith of the future". I still think he did for a reason. I'm not getting pessemistic just yet.

Naami, I always more thought of the way they captured Steve... If they would manage to reactivate Teyla's necklace, then some Wraith and a couple of Warriors would surely come towards the signal again... Shoot the Warriors down, stun the Wraith, and voila.

I'm sure that, would he have been captured in a facility of come kind, it would have been brought up before today?

They don't really need to go into a heavily guarded Wraith area to get one...

maybe... I didn't think about the necklace. I'll chalk it up to something else the writers should tell us, but won't.

[dasNdanger]

but, chris did call todd the "wraith of the future". I still think he did for a reason. I'm not getting pessemistic just yet.

Spoiler:

Yeah, but that could mean a non-human feeding Wraith who no longer needs to make nice-nice with the Lanteans, and no longer has a legit 'excuse' for killing humans, since it won't be about sustenance anymore.

Yes...I am thinking negative...but that's what my gut's telling me...


das

[naamiaiset]

Spoiler:

Yeah, but that could mean a non-human feeding Wraith who no longer needs to make nice-nice with the Lanteans, and no longer has a legit 'excuse' for killing humans, since it won't be about sustenance anymore.

Yes...I am thinking negative...but that's what my gut's telling me...


das

Spoiler:

why would todd attack the lanteans/humans if they cure him/wraith of feeding and basically save his race?

[Sparrow_hawk]

Spoiler:

I read that as totally different. Esp. episodes 16 & 17 - and the two-parter. I think it's Todd, and I think they're turning him into a villain, and I am heartsick over it, having read these episode ideas. Since episode 16 is an alien 'race', and 17 an alien 'individual', and the hint of a one-time 'friend' turning against them - it all smacks of Todd and the Wraith. I fear what lies ahead, especially with the finale. If they screw up Todd by turning him 'evil', I will never forgive them. And yes, I already vented on JM's blog.

Of course, it could be these new 'enemies', or Michael, or even Ladon and the Genii. But since there is hardly mention of the Wraith in those S6 episode breakdowns, I'm guessing those that are vague about the enemy must refer to the Wraith...unless, of course, the Wraith are pretty much dead by the end of S5.

I am starting to hate this show again.

das

To me, the whole thing sounded like it could have been the layout of any Stargate: SG1 or Atlantis season. I think JM was just messing with our minds and it was all a joke.

Originally posted by GoSpikey
On Todd:

Spoiler:

I never read it as a "Todd, buddy, your days as a feeder on humans are over, as you'll be like the second person we'll be treating with this thing of hours, and if you drop dead in the process, we don't care.

It's quite evident that it'll be first tried out on other Wraith, eg Warriors, to see if they for starters can survive on it, as they are the ones who bring the unbalance in food because of their existence, they were cloned hundred thousand times over, so they could win the war with the Atlanteans. Nowadays, they eat humans, but if you only need to stand guard in a ship, do you really need it? If you are one of the Warriors who go outside to help defend a faced Wraith, then okay, you might need to feed, if only to provide a fallen Wraith with your Gift of Life. But all the others, like Todd said, is just a waste of perfectly good resources.

Then maybe they'll test it on the lesser faced ones, or maybe they'll run a separate investigation on the Wraith children who are about to have genetic/physical changes because the feeding process is about to kick in...

This isn't something that's done in 3 days, it'll take months to go to a next step, I think. They must carefully be tested on strength, regeneration, etc.

And the results on the faced Wraith have to be VERY POSITIVE before Todd will consider it to be spread out over the true Wraith population, IF that'll ever happen.

Maybe the Lanteans are going to have to settle with the fact that the big chunk of the Warriors are no longer feeding. It would be a significant thing, already.

My two cents.

I agree with you on that.

Spoiler:

The testing will take quite a while and they will almost certainly start with the expendable Warriors. Then Todd will have to make the big decision on how he wants to proceed with the therapy, IF he does want to use it. And I'm still not convinced that Todd intends to accept it for himself and the faced Wraith at this point. Keller admitted that they have no idea what the impact will be on the Wraith's regenerative abilities and their longevity; personally, I think their ability to regenerate will persist, but be limited. And I think they can kiss their virtual immortality goodbye once they stop feeding. But we'll have to wait and see how the writers have interpreted it.

As for Todd's future role: I think he will remain the some-time opponent/some-time ally of Atlantis. And I hope he will continue to lead at least one major Wraith faction. But I can see him becoming a political outcast among his kind if he advocates use of the gene therapy and the rest of those in power oppose it.

[Laura Dove]

Spoiler:

This is very true. That is a bit of what I mean...normal food is of no interest to him because he's not indulgent (like Shawn), and gains all he needs now from his human meals. If Todd were human, he'd be a meat and potatoes man, and wouldn't touch that fancy crap Mallozzi eats.

Exactly.

I don't know if this has been brought up before...
in "michael", it doesn't say how wraith michael is captured. I don't think the team just stumbled upon him out alone somewhere or boarded his hive (although, they have a reputation for being that dumb). maybe they picked up on wraith activity in an area and captured him that way? anyone have any theories?

Good question. I wondered too, especially since Michael is patient number 4000 something. How the hell did they capture so many wraith?

I totally think he's a pragmatist too

Spoiler:

I completely agree, yet again with your assessment of Todd's attitude toward feeding--he's not an idiot, he knows human beings are just as "capable and able bodied" as the wraith and that feeding is par for the course of remaining alive. Feeding for the wraith give them their strength, their healing and their longevity, but at the end of the day they can only eat humans. They can't survive on anything else. Because Todd is a pragmatist, and sees feeding also in this way he therefore is "willing" to contemplate another way of surviving. This is why, I believe Keller says "...unless you don't want it to work" Todd is now having his emotional misgivings.

Yes,

Spoiler:

Todd "sees the benefit of it". But while he rationally sees the necessity, it's emotionally hard to accept. And I suspect he'll be the last wraith to willingly accept the treatment, even if/when he manages to convince his alliance.

Spoiler:

I think, for a whole host of reasons based on what Todd has implied, that the wraith consider themselves a "super-human" of a sort, and they have spent their entire existence defining themselves against the human race, rather than considering a definition of the wraith in their own right, separate from the iratus bug and separate from humanity. This is what he now has to wrestle with. And the only people who can resolve this conundrum is the wraith themselves. It may be something they struggle with for a long long time.

Yep, it's similar to humans defining themselves as "above animals".

Spoiler:

Now if humans were forced by other mammals to be genetically treated to become entirely vegetarians, I imagine how much resistance would be faced.

Ha ha ha, I think someone mentioned this earlier

Spoiler:

(I think it was Das). Being on that ship was like being in a wraith candy store: so many delicacies, so many tasty treats and all completely out of reach. I do wonder though, what Todd has said to these wraith to convince them to go along with his often wacky and risky plans. I mean, they too must be like minded if they are willing to "associate" with the humans the way Todd is--though Kenny never has any bones about being sarcastic with the humans. I wonder what Todd has done for them in the past, what he has meant to them personally. He obviously is a person who has the charisma and integrity to create such loyal followers.

Good question.

Spoiler:

Kenny obviously knows the deal, as he was there in "The Queen". While he hated the idea, Todd might have convinced him that relying solely on humans as a food source was a "significant vulnerability" of their kind.

Re: Todd -- It's so funny I had a completely different read from what Laura said. I love Todd, he has boundless ways of interpreting him.

Yay to his complexity! What was your read of the scene?

From Joe Mallozzi's blog, yesterday's entry:
In the 'possible' season 6, although it was just filled out that way to put in every shelved story idea they ever had, together with potential real eps:

As a whole, this still-born season 6 didn't sound very good. I don't see much of a story arc. Of course, they were nothing like actual final episodes, so it left a lot of room for improvement.

Episodes #10 & #11:

Spoiler:

Like Das, my first thought about the "former friend out for revenge" was "Todd!!!!". But then I thought it might be Weir, especially since the initial script for "Ghost in the Machine" had her being betrayed by Atlantis. Or Ladon Radim? Todd was never considered a "friend" by the Atlanteans, was he?

Episode #14:

Spoiler:

Meh for the reason why the episode was abandoned. While Joe Flanigan's acting is great, I'm less than impressed with some of his behind-the-scene reactions.

Episode #16:

Spoiler:

The bad guys from "First Contact" / "The Lost Tribe"?

Episode #17:

Spoiler:

Yup, must be Michael.

Spoiler:

I read that as totally different. Esp. episodes 16 & 17 - and the two-parter. I think it's Todd, and I think they're turning him into a villain, and I am heartsick over it, having read these episode ideas. Since episode 16 is an alien 'race', and 17 an alien 'individual', and the hint of a one-time 'friend' turning against them - it all smacks of Todd and the Wraith. I fear what lies ahead, especially with the finale. If they screw up Todd by turning him 'evil', I will never forgive them. And yes, I already vented on JM's blog.

I'm not as pessimistic (*crosses fingers, crosses fingers*), but yeah, it's a possibility. Actually, it makes me feel glad SGA was cancelled, because constantly fearing for my favourite character is not what I call entertainment.