Wraith Defenders Club

[Sparrow_hawk]

And basing info on telepathic from pre-birth? Is there any scientific studies that we can reference?

Interesting discussion on telepathy! Everyone has raised interesting points about various types of communication in different species and made some good suggestions as to how two telepaths might single out one another for direct, one-on-one communication.

I've not posted in a while, so hear is an extra-long one to make up for it.

As far as I know, there are no scientific studies on telepathic communication, because there are no telepaths available to use in the studies. I've read plenty of fantasy and sci-fi works that incorporate telepathy in their worlds, but I can't recall any that really address the nitty-gritty aspects of how it works. I've developed my own concepts of how it might work from things I have seen and read, but have no facts to work from -- only years of sci-fi and fantasy stories and my own over-active imagination!

I think:
1. Telepathic minds each have their own unique wavelength used in communication.
2. The distance or range over which they can communicate is based on their mental/metaphysical strength.
3. Telepaths have "shields" to keep their private thoughts private and to keep out extraneous public thoughts of others.
4. A telepath would have the potential to "hear" the public thoughts of any other telepath within range.
5. A telepath's thoughts have unique characteristics that are probably a combination of emotion/intellect/personality that would make them identifiable to another telepath. I think it would be like looking at a bowl containing thousands of different colored threads and searching for one of exactly the right color.
6. Once a telepath finds the right color or wavelength, they would give a gentle tug on the thread to get the attention of the other person by addressing them by their unique identifier or "name." It would be the equivalent of seeing someone you know in a group and calling out their name to get their attention.
7. When the telepaths want to communicate and block out other thoughts, they would open up a "listening port" in their shield to allow in only the thoughts of that one individual.
8. Public thoughts could be addressed to everyone within "hearing" range, just as a human could address a crowd.


toomuchcaf said

A child, when born, is unable to speak. It responds by touch, smell and sound. As it grows, it learns, and is able to comprehend speech.
But during this period, there can be overload - take a young child into a very noisy and chaotic place - they will react because they are scared and it is too confusing and overwhelming for them. It is for this reason that I believe wraith young (even if it is just the queens), would not be communicating with telepathy at that age - it would cause information overload, distressing them.

I think that is a very good point and brings up questions about how telepaths learn to manage their mental communications. Children would need to learn how to focus their attention on an individual, identify different individuals by their identifiers and set up their "shields" and learn not to speak too loudly in public. Until they had the mental strength to do that, they might very well use spoken or sign language.

Wraithie said:

It has been shown that animals do have different forms of communication. Some of them have audible warnings others have scent and visual warnings or signals, but they have shown little by way of attempts at language except when dealing with deaf, dumb, blind, scent handcapped humans!

WE need names. Wraith, as with any other telepathic-from-pre birth people, would not.

I agree, but I think we should qualify this as "verbalized names".

Wraith Cake said:

telepathy would require an exterior referent to put meaning into context. That referent could be images seen that the "telepather" brings with him/her from their real world experience. This would also have relevance with "deaf and dumb" telepathers--since they connect differently with the world their communication telepathically would be different.

I agree that any person-to-person or Wraith-to-Wraith communication occuring in a group setting would require a unique identifier for the "speaker" to use in addressing his comments to his target "listener".

Karhedron said:

They have a Hive mind. Or at least that was hinted. But they can also make contact with just one person. Maybe that was why Elia was not with a hive. They could just have the young Queens at another location to "protect" them from the Hive mind until they are ready for it.

Another very interesting point. Maybe pre-telepathic young Wraith are taken out-of-range of the Hive to protect their minds until they learn to form their mental shields.

Great discussion! But now I need to get some sleep. (Dang! I was going to take a nice, relaxing bath and go to bed early -- then I logged on here and got caught up in things. I have no self-discipline).

[dasNdanger]

Good to see you, SH! I was starting to worry! No time to join in the discussion...but maybe later tomorrow. I have given this a lot of thought, just trying to juggle too many things, and still riding high since Wizard World, so spending way more time on the comic book forums than here.

Like I said, will try to join in tomorrow!


das

[Degilwen]

Oh my go was this a Weekend. I feel like a human where a Wraith feed on me. We have had with the Agency for Technical relief a big mission. It was terrible scroll down and Look the pic´s: http://thw-juelich.de/modules/news/a...hp?storyid=101

@ das you look good with Edward/ James L
@ Icarium Your Greg Wall and your Shawn Sig are very nice

The Rhys Wraith look good.... Yummy boy but Steve was better... I miss James Lafazanos as Wraith

[BlueJay]

ok, going to try and say something reguarding the discussion. Read all the posts awhile ago then got distracted by games (spanks bad distracting games).
Like Sparrow Hawk said, there are no telepaths for us to compare what we see in sci-fi with. The only thing that comes remotely close is instances where say, twins say they *know* when something is happening to the other one. Also, that study where the subject has to *guess* the card the other person is holding up. Since there is so little in the real world, everything goes back to what sci-fi writers have come up with.

In the show, all that we know about wraith telepathy comes from Teyla. She is the one who informs the team about the wraiths ability to make you see things that are not there. Her attempts at connecting with the wraith let us know a little of how it works. Being able to see through their eyes -wandering around a hive ship. Communicate a thought or a lie -intention to destroy the city. Teyla senses how the wraith queen feels -agiated, the other wraith must also pick up on this. Teyla has been able to take over a wraiths body and direct them but, do we know if one wraith can do this to another. A queen could control a male most likely, but one male controlling another? It would be interesting if they could 'gang up' mentally against another wraith to make them do their bidding.

Spoiler:

It would be good in the queen as well, Teyla could just go on auto piolet and let Todd direct her

the thing with this is, would another wraith be able to sense this happening.

i hope i made some if any sense and didn't just repeat what came before, (blames it on games) i did have an argument thought out but it's gone now.
sleep time!

[Wraith Cake]

I am trying not be be as you say. I am also thinking about OTHER species then humans! Take any other young animal, place it in a noisy situation, and they will be stressed. Take insects and but them in a room full of load noise (which they would detect as vibrations), and they would be stressed. Take reptiles, same thing. And animals have ways of identifying themselves as unique, like a name, if you will. Take penquins for example, some species create their own call, unique to themselves.

And as for Teyla

Spoiler:

The baby has a gene, it is not wraith. You have already stated that the Wraith are more bugs then human. To say this baby is a wraith, is to say that Teyla and Kanaan are mostly bug, in order to have a more buggy baby. Therefore Teyla would have to be wraith.

And basing info on telepathic from pre-birth? Is there any scientific studies that we can reference?

Communication is a very tricky thing. Reading the comment you said, though meant in an explanatory way, was enough to upset me. Not what I need while trying to unwind before an exam so I'm not stressed out.
Sending and recieveing messages is all well and good, however, how they are encoded and decoded at both ends, regardless of the way they are sent, can cause problems. How the senders and recievers are emotionally can also affect how the message is sent and recieved. Noise and interference can also distort messages, no matter how they are sent. The broader the language or information available to be sent, the more precise the message will be.
I am not trying to change peoples minds about this. But I would like my opinions to be understood in the context they are meant.
End of my part of the debate.
Now I need to go have a cup of tea.

Sorry I had to cut out on such an awesome discussion, but "life" calls. I'm going to be spending the next two days up to my eye balls in marking exams now!! Ug!

Anyhow, this is the article on autism. It more contains a video of a woman who is considered highly autistic and gives us her perspective on the world. Here's the link http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/...?currentPage=1

WK

[Wraith Cake]

I should be in bed already and I will be after this post.

I feel terrible now too, because I've come late to the party -- 12 hours to be precise.

Yes...I think the Wraith have names. No...I don't think we will ever hear them on the show. Because they would not be vocal and you could not give a proper "translation".
Just imagine an alien with a vocal language that is spoken in a frequency a human could not hear. You could translate it by shifting to another frequency but it would not be the name. You could use a machine to make it visible but it would not be the name. Same for names based on telepathy and/or scent. They are there but a human can never understand them...nor could a Wraith translate them for a human.

Level heads have prevailed: exactly...I think? Anyway, yes. Let's clear up the issues. Okay 1/ The wraith have language: What most humans on the show can experience is their verbal/auditory language; their written/scribal language; and their body/kinesthetic language. 2/what most humans on the show can't experience but can observe is their telepathic language. This is not surprising as all creatures have language, the more complex they are the more complex and diverse their language systems are.

Language is the process of naming things, but more precisely it is a "pattern" of naming things. This is how Dr. Weir was able to figure out that wraith is a derivative of the ancient language--it had the same "root language patterns" as the ancient's communication. Just like we can see the Indo-European family class of languages in our own day: English, Dutch, German, etc (Germanic Language); Romanian, Italian, French (Romantic/Latinate language). The issue isn't whether they have language and or names for themselves, this would be secure bet. The issue is 1/What significance they place culturally on individual names
2/Their unwillingness to share their names could have more to do with their power dynamics of not deigning to "share" this information with subservient humans (probably more likely)
3/Do they have many facets to their names ie an aural factory one, a telepathic one and an olfactory one (smelly). This again would tie into their value of "wraith" life. The more a culture values the concept of "individual person" the more individual names will be.
Therefore, language reflects culture directly.

Interesting as well, the less a culture values the "rights" of the individual the more corrupt the culture/political landscape of those people will be.

It is no coincidence that the Industrial Revolution took place at exactly the same time as Social Reform in 19th century Britain. Ancient Rome (and to a certain extent) ancient Egypt had a great deal of the same technology 19th century Europe had. Their empires ultimately fell however, because they were based on slavery. Slave based societies always, always, always fail. Anyway, I'm blathering on and I have to go mark.



WK

[Wraith Cake]

I think:
1. Telepathic minds each have their own unique wavelength used in communication.
2. The distance or range over which they can communicate is based on their mental/metaphysical strength.
3. Telepaths have "shields" to keep their private thoughts private and to keep out extraneous public thoughts of others.
4. A telepath would have the potential to "hear" the public thoughts of any other telepath within range.
5. A telepath's thoughts have unique characteristics that are probably a combination of emotion/intellect/personality that would make them identifiable to another telepath. I think it would be like looking at a bowl containing thousands of different colored threads and searching for one of exactly the right color.
6. Once a telepath finds the right color or wavelength, they would give a gentle tug on the thread to get the attention of the other person by addressing them by their unique identifier or "name." It would be the equivalent of seeing someone you know in a group and calling out their name to get their attention.
7. When the telepaths want to communicate and block out other thoughts, they would open up a "listening port" in their shield to allow in only the thoughts of that one individual.
8. Public thoughts could be addressed to everyone within "hearing" range, just as a human could address a crowd.

Ya, cool. Well summerised. I wonder if some people have telepathy. I know sometimes I go into work and my coworkers (always female for some reason) wear the same colour/clothing combination I have. Sometimes we'll even make the effort to test our telepathy and Sometimes it works!!!

Weird eh?

WK

[Wraith Cake]

I posted something to Toomuchcaff and for some reason it's gotten deleted--bizarre. I'm trying to find it.


WK

[GoSpikey]

Ze Queens

Telepathy? Got some nice theories?

[LiliJ]

Great ideas on telepathy! Very insightful. Hey, I have a question - what is the deal with wraith children? Cos we see Elia in "Instinct" but then children are never mentioned again. I would have thought it was a great oppurtunity for a plotline... So do you guys know what happens to wraith kids?

[Wraith Cake]

Now I need to go have a cup of tea.

I'm going to try to post this again. I wonder if it was moderated because I said GOAT-BUM? Well here goes.

Tea, tea lovely tea. Good, go have a cup of tea. I'm having one right now. *squee* Tea is the best soother. Whenever I was emotional in university my roommate and I use to say: Having someone chase you around in the dark with a pick-axe? have a cuppa tea. Your arm fell off? Have a cuppa tea? Have a goat-bum date? Have a cuppa tea. [this term got thrown around universally in our dorm because of the type of "dud" dates we'd have. If a guy asks you on a date but then makes you pay, gets you to drive him around all night or sends you home by yo-sewf that's a goatbum date. We use to have this laugh, wouldn't it be awesome if we could go to The Body Shop and get a cream called "GoatBum Be Gone"?] Anyway, we'd be laughing and crying while drinking a cuppa tea someone had made us. Tea to the rescue.

And basing info on telepathic from pre-birth? Is there any scientific studies that we can reference?

I can't think of any evidence off hand, but I did see this wonderful documentary on the acuteness of ESP. Aparently the US government spent billions of dollars on studies of ESP in the 70s. The film Minority Report (based on the short story with the same title by Philp K. Dick) talks about the instance of people with acute ESP. I'll see if I can find this documentary for you. It's really interesting, you can watch it to have a study brain break while having some tea.

Sending and recieveing messages is all well and good, however, how they are encoded and decoded at both ends, regardless of the way they are sent, can cause problems. How the senders and recievers are emotionally can also affect how the message is sent and recieved.

Exactly. You can't communicate in isolation. There has to be other referents in order to put the communication in context. This is why 90% of communication is body language and tone of voice--there has to be other "connectors" for what to be said to make sense. This is why it is possible to understand what is happening in a foreign film even if there are no subtitles.

Noise and interference can also distort messages, no matter how they are sent. The broader the language or information available to be sent, the more precise the message will be.

Absolutely. Or even, the more complex a language system is the more "precise" the words (system of signs) must be in order to convey the intended meaning.


Good ideas...

WK

[Wraith Cake]

I just double posted

[Wraith Cake]

Hmmmm this looks like wraith language. Hmmmm--perhaps are these wraith worshippers?
http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpres...6/dsc08433.jpg

WK

[Shanthaia]

nope that is ancient - wraith looks like that:

Spoiler:

way more artistic

[naamiaiset]

Hmmmm this looks like wraith language. Hmmmm--perhaps are these wraith worshippers?
http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpres...6/dsc08433.jpg

WK

shanthaia is right, that's ancient. I translated what that says on the "outsiders" thread. wraith and ancient writing have similarities though.

ancient:

Spoiler: