Wraith Defenders Club

[JenKM1216]

Wraith are evil

Reasons

They eat humans when they could clone humans instead and eats those but they choose to destroy worlds and forcfully take humans against their wills

Also they have made a whole galaxy of humans live in a world of fear (sounds like terriosts to me)

Also they have left the PG from advancing as everytime the Wraith Cull they make the humans go back to square one

So if it was up to me all of the 304s would go on raids into the PG to take out the Hives



But I will say todd's a pretty nice guy (but their has to be an expection)

Just some thoughts...

1) We know that Michael can clone a human. Do we know how long it took him? No. Do we know that other Wraith can clone humans? No again. For all we know, Michael had to experiment for a long time before managing a successful cloning experiment.

2) How else are they going to eat? It's not like most humans would willing offer themselves up. Let's not forget it was the Ancients' fault Wraith exist in the first place.

3) Yes, humans do live in fear. What else is going to happen when there is a human-eating race created by the ever-wonderful Ancients--accidentally or not. It's not the fault of the Wraith that is how they evolved.

4) Why would the Wraith want humans to advance? Would you teach a deer to shoot a gun back at you for a more adrenaline-packed hunting experience?

Your willingness to destroy an entire race, in my opinon, makes you no better than the race you call evil.

[Wraithworshipper]

Ok, i didnt mean to do that. the image is better when larger. It is made to look like an oil painting.

masterling

Not a problem there! Just click and it's big! *Oh no! I just went to the gutter! I wasn't aiming for it...honest!* Anyhoo...Did you do that in PSP? I have PSP9 and it has the oil painting feature. The image looks nice. It's definitely Todd, but it kinds brings in the traditional image type quality of the slightly incorporeal wraith of scary bedtime stories. I like!

Wraithie

They eat humans when they could clone humans instead and eats those but they choose to destroy worlds and forcfully take humans against their wills

And just what in blazes makes you think that a cloned human has any less right to live than a born human? Right there, you show that you're a class "A" bigot in your own right. It seems you feel that since a cloned human is a product of advanced technology that he/she is less than, or at the very least not equal to, a born human. Hmm...looking at the Wraith/human conflict from a less xeno-phobic, human-centric point view, the human colonies started out technologically behind the Wraith, so that would make them less than equal to Wraith.

Your choice of condoning the culling of cloned humans, and you desire to label the Wraith as evil and kill them all off is indicative that you also feel that "might and advanced technology makes right". Well, in the PG, the Wraith are the might and the advanced technology, so perforce that would make them right!

[fugiman]

Just some thoughts...

1) We know that Michael can clone a human. Do we know how long it took him? No. Do we know that other Wraith can clone humans? No again. For all we know, Michael had to experiment for a long time before managing a successful cloning experiment.

Well I was thinking of the big ass cloning lab of theirs that was able to make an army that was able to destroy the Ancients. So why couldn't they just make some quick and easy dinners that way instead of culling innocent people? If I shot a man then ate him would I not be evil, and lets just say that if ate anything else it didn't fill me up

Also time isn't a problem why not just hibernate while a few of the greatest wraith minds make it work and then when they figure it out start having humans be put in statis until everyone wakes up

Also Ba'al was able to make clones very easily and numerously in less then a year so if he could do it why can't the wraith who have shown to have a great understanding of biology?

That is why I deem the wraith evil, not because they eat humans but they choose to eat them

2) How else are they going to eat? It's not like most humans would willing offer themselves up. Let's not forget it was the Ancients' fault Wraith exist in the first place.

Clones, that was my point

How is it the fault of the Ancinets? (no really did I miss an episode where this is stated)

3) Yes, humans do live in fear. What else is going to happen when there is a human-eating race created by the ever-wonderful Ancients--accidentally or not. It's not the fault of the Wraith that is how they evolved

But its their fault that they terroize humans instead of using their science and research that would allow them to feed for generations instead of always fighting for food and resources with their own race

Also isn't it funny how the wraith turn on each other so fast? Instead of becoming a unifed power and rationing food they decide to kill each other for resources

4) Why would the Wraith want humans to advance? Would you teach a deer to shoot a gun back at you for a more adrenaline-packed hunting experience?

I didn't say they did

I just said that because of wraith eating and destroying human worlds they didn't allow advancemnt to occur thus making many humans of the PG to not advance to a better living condtions such as medicine, food production, and other tech that would allow them to live longer and better lives

Your willingness to destroy an entire race, in my opinon, makes you no better than the race you call evil.

Didn't I say that Todd was cool

But really does it? They attacked first not me, so isn't it my right to defend myself? I mean if a wraith attacked me and I had the choice to kill or be killed, well what would you do?

Also isn't it right to defend the lives of my fellow humans from a race that wants to eat them?

Finally if cows started talking to me I wouldn't eat them or any other animal that could talk my lanugae and use simple machines


In season 1 and 2 I could have agreed with what you are saying but after seeing the tech that the Wraith have I have to disagree and deem them evil

[dasNdanger]

Wraith are evil

Yeah, yeah, yeah...so is Anubis, and YOU want him for president... so we don't wanna hear anything about the Wraith being 'evil' (which they are not).

They eat humans when they could clone humans instead and eats those but they choose to destroy worlds and forcfully take humans against their wills

They eat humans because they are their only source of nutrition and food.

A cloned human is still a human, so it doesn't solve their dietary 'problem'.

Yes - they destroy worlds - so do humans. In fact, the USofA (of which I am a citizen) is doing a fine job at destroying any country that doesn't agree with it...sooooo...where's the difference between human and Wraith?

Also they have made a whole galaxy of humans live in a world of fear (sounds like terriosts to me)

Yeah, yeah...and lots of people live in fear of Michael Jackson, but that doesn't mean he's evil...

...or...or does it....

Also they have left the PG from advancing as everytime the Wraith Cull they make the humans go back to square one

Wraith keep human populations under control. This prevents famine, disease, exploitation of a planet's resources, pollution, and even war. So, in a sense, the Wraith are 'wildlife managers', keeping human populations at reasonable levels, thus ensuring both the health of the humans and the planets on which they live.

(Keep in mind, that on earth alone over the past 100 years, millions upon millions of people have been killed in war - soldiers and civilians alike. And just think of how many wars have been fought in those 100 years - World War I & II, Korean War, Vietnam War, dozens of conflicts in Europe, Asia, Africa and South America. How often do the Wraith make 'war' with humans? 10,000 years since the Ancient War, hundreds of years between cullings...sounds to me that the humans in the Pegasus galaxy live in more peace and security than we do here on earth!! )

So if it was up to me all of the 304s would go on raids into the PG to take out the Hives

Good thing it's not up to you, or you'd have a buncha Wraith-worshipping humans taking YOU out!

But I will say todd's a pretty nice guy (but their has to be an expection)

Yeah, he's special. I hope he turns on Sheppard and sucks him dry!!

Nice funnin' with ya - just don't do it again or I'll have to go all 'feeding hand' on you!


das

[StarOcean]

I gotta admit to getting very depressed when watching episodes where the Wraith get killed...I usually don't watch them again. I think I feel too sympathetic towards them, and no matter how nasty they are, I still end up rooting for them in the end. To know there are episodes like Broken Ties and Trackers coming up, episodes that will obviously have major Wraith whumpage...well...just kinda gets me down. I am SO ready for these guys to be moved up to a new level and away from the whole 'hated enemy' thing. But it isn't going to happen, I'm sure of it...so...sometimes the more I read, the more down I get because I know it means the eventual annihilation of the Wraith, just like SG does with all its enemies (this is where Star Trek was superior - they always attempted to make alliances even with the worst of their foes, whereas SG always attempts to annihilate).

Ok. I need to rant. Because like Das, I'm dreading S5. I'm actually thinking of only watching the Todd episodes, if not jumping ship all together. And I'll settle with my version of SGA that lives in my head. (Living on the river Denial!)

It bothers me that we never see our main cast, or even the writers, give any thought to the idea that not all Wraiths are the same. They (SGA and writers) think that all Wraiths kill, just because of their specialized diet.

Which I think might not be true. What if there are Wraiths that only feed on their worshippers? Or volunteers? Or maybe there's a hive out there that has thousands of humans that they take a decade of years from. In exchange, those Wraith keep the humans they coexist with safe from other Wraith and humans. Or something.

Think of it this way: They don't assume all humans are the same and more importantly, they don't assume humans live only in the Pegasus and Milky Way. Thus, they would never create a genocidal weapon of mass destruction that only targets humans.

And I find it depressing that, obviously and because of the circumstances, Todd knows that not all humans are the same. But Sheppard and Co still think all Wraiths are the same. ("This one might be different." Might be? *glares at Sheppard* Jerk.)

There's this lack of respectful awareness and basic decency in our characters that really puts me off. And it's not just towards the Wraith. Which is partly justifiable since they're the enemy. But they've treated other humans in Pegasus poorly, and I doubt they value those alliances seriously. Simply because they're not as technologically advance. Take the Travellers for example. Larrin and her people treated Sheppard badly, yet Sheppard's more than willing to negotiate for further relations. And that lack is starting to be telling on the ethnocentricity of the writers themselves and it bothers me. Every time I think about The Condemned, Michael, Trinity, Irresistible etc, I start disliking the characters and writers again.

I mean, a solar system was blown up, and they're ok with that? WTF? That's massive destruction! And nothing will ever live there again, and how can they be sure that there were no inhabitants? What if there's a shielding, cloak, or a time dilation? It's another example of being unable to comprehend life on a grand scale because advance technology and advance knowledge causes a disconnect with "living." And I do mean advance and not enlightened.

Season 4 spent little on meeting new people. And I'm glad that it sounds like S5 will be getting away from meeting new people too. Or at least, such things will occur offscreen. Because if pre-S4 is any indication, we'll just see the Earthers behaving terribly.

I'm ok with them killing for survival. But I despise it when they bring righteousness as a reason for their warfare tactics. More often than not, it's just an excuse for despicable behavior. For story telling purposes, it's hard to root for a character who acts like an ***, but the writing is obviously telling us that the character(s) is A Great Person And Is Right. (Ex: Clark, Lana in Smallville, Buffy Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 7)

It's hard to root for our heroes when they behave so badly. But the writing tells us otherwise. So I root for the Wraith. And I would really love it if Todd would be the enlightened mind and pull Pegasus together and find that coexistence. I think Teyla and Ronon should help him too. Todd has the firepower, Teyla and Ronon have the human diplomacy.

That's one of the reasons why I loved Star Trek:TNG and Deep Space Nine. Sentient beings are sentient beings, they are not all the same, and they made their best effort to be diplomatic and find a middle ground so that everyone could coexist until it was absolutely impossible. And that their exploration wasn't just about acquiring science for growth. It was about the different ways of life, which paved the way for growth.* In SGA, I really feel it's all about cataloging information and science in the hopes of bettering Earth. Which doesn't make sense. Tech doesn't change people. Also in SGA, we're seeing the subtle worst of humanity and no attempts to change, or even a self-examination. They only acknowledge their strategic mistakes.

The things is, all these repeated awareness flaws are starting to tell me something about the writers. I know it's suppose to be campy sci-fi, but there are parts of the writers' that show through which bothers me. (Ex: How were they not aware that rape was happening in Irresistible? In The Seer, they're basically telling us that scientific explorers do not need to extend basic courtesy to the natives' humane or privacy rights, even though the Earthers are the aliens.) The writers reminds me a lot of the IOA that's being portrayed in SGA. Ironic, since we're suppose to hate the IOA.

And so I really don't expect the Wraith, nor the salvation of Pegasus, to end up alright in the end. Especially in any way that would not make me roll my eyes. I feel like we're still going to see the Wraith, and other Pegasus natives that are not the Travellers, as "lesser." So, think I'll just take all my Wraithy needs from the WDC.

Hm... think there needs to be a Pegasus Natives Defender Club?

Ok. Rant done. I feel better now. It wasn't a good idea to marathon S1-3. All the negatives stack up. Needless to say, I only watched them once. I can't believe how much I love S4, but hate nearly everything that comes before it!

*Q said it best in the season finale of ST:TNG. Exploration isn't about cataloging and acquiring data, it's about awareness and life.

My theory on Broken Ties...

Spoiler:

I think the reason why that Wraith wants to turn Ronon into a Runner is so that Ronon will lead them to Atlantis. And since Ronon goes on missions with them, Ronon would also know of human settlements that the Wraith might not know about, or no longer know due to relocation.

Das, you like the idea of Ruby to be Todd's sister better than "lover" or daughter? I'm curious as to why. I follow Q's way of thinking and would like to explore your thoughts! And what about the rest of WDC? I'll post mine later. I think maybe this post is long enough.

Yikes! I don't think I'll ever catch up and follow all these "new" posts. I'm getting confused trying to remember everything and who posted what. @_@

Man... I hope I made sense....

[Sparrow_hawk]

naamiaiset- thanks for the link to the seen caps.
jenKM- welcome, its always nice to know there are more wraith obsessed fan out there.
can someone tell me how to HIDE/Spolier an image? I ahve an image of todd that I have altered and would like your thoughts.

masterling

@ Masterling: I like the picture and the style. When you use a thumbnail that expands, I don't think there is any need to put it behind a spoiler.

@ fugiman: You are entitled to your opinion about the Wraith. I'm glad you at least respect Todd.

*sigh* I wish that the people that felt the need to post hate-mail here would at least take the time to edit and correct their spelling.

@das: Very eloquent comment on JM's blog. I'm glad you went back and posted again. But I have to disagree with you on one point: I wouldn't mind at all if he visited us. There has been some really great discussion on this thread. Some silliness at times, but great ideas, great art and great humor! I think we can be proud of this part of the forum.

[Wraithworshipper]

Yeah, yeah, yeah...so is Anubis, and YOU want him for president... so we don't wanna hear anything about the Wraith being 'evil' (which they are not).




They eat humans because they are their only source of nutrition and food.

A cloned human is still a human, so it doesn't solve their dietary 'problem'.

Yes - they destroy worlds - so do humans. In fact, the USofA (of which I am a citizen) is doing a fine job at destroying any country that doesn't agree with it...sooooo...where's the difference between human and Wraith?



Yeah, yeah...and lots of people live in fear of Michael Jackson, but that doesn't mean he's evil...

...or...or does it....



Wraith keep human populations under control. This prevents famine, disease, exploitation of a planet's resources, pollution, and even war. So, in a sense, the Wraith are 'wildlife managers', keeping human populations at reasonable levels, thus ensuring both the health of the humans and the planets on which they live.

(Keep in mind, that on earth alone over the past 100 years, millions upon millions of people have been killed in war - soldiers and civilians alike. And just think of how many wars have been fought in those 100 years - World War I & II, Korean War, Vietnam War, dozens of conflicts in Europe, Asia, Africa and South America. How often do the Wraith make 'war' with humans? 10,000 years since the Ancient War, hundreds of years between cullings...sounds to me that the humans in the Pegasus galaxy live in more peace and security than we do here on earth!! )



Good thing it's not up to you, or you'd have a buncha Wraith-worshipping humans taking YOU out!



Yeah, he's special. I hope he turns on Sheppard and sucks him dry!!

Nice funnin' with ya - just don't do it again or I'll have to go all 'feeding hand' on you!


das

Good points, das! And now we see the down side of being part of General Discussion. That's what? Two "everybody has one"s today alone? (And, yes, I'm referring to the rude half of that little saying) If they don't agree, why don't they just leave instead of acting like the Ori? It's not like they're going to convert anyone in the WRAITH DEFENDERS CLUB!

Wraithworshipper
Has had a long day, and is in the mood to kill many, many annoying supporters of the earthians to show my devotion to my Wraith Master.


@Starocean: What a wonderful idea! A symbiotic Wraith/Human relationship! I had thought along the idea of a Wraith/human relationship like the toc'ra/human relationship. If there are significantly different goa'uld (yes. I know spelling is wrong. I'm a WRAITH worshipper!), then why not significantly differing Wraith, as well?

[fugiman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah...so is Anubis, and YOU want him for president... so we don't wanna hear anything about the Wraith being 'evil' (which they are not).

Anubis is a great man.. well he is a great half ascended being thing


But who said he's not evil? Well he is I can't lie about that

They eat humans because they are their only source of nutrition and food.

A cloned human is still a human, so it doesn't solve their dietary 'problem'.

Yes - they destroy worlds - so do humans. In fact, the USofA (of which I am a citizen) is doing a fine job at destroying any country that doesn't agree with it...sooooo...where's the difference between human and Wraith?

1. No they can eat other wraith

2. Yes it does, it fills them up just like a human but its not a real human if they don't develop the brain or intelligence of the clone

Yeah, yeah...and lots of people live in fear of Michael Jackson, but that doesn't mean he's evil...

...or...or does it....

Well I say yes but he did make thriller


So if the Wraith made Thriller then I guess I could forgive them but they didn't

Wraith keep human populations under control. This prevents famine, disease, exploitation of a planet's resources, pollution, and even war. So, in a sense, the Wraith are 'wildlife managers', keeping human populations at reasonable levels, thus ensuring both the health of the humans and the planets on which they live.

So you would like to see the wraith come to Earth and do this to us or do you like your current life style?

Also how do they keep humans healty all they are doing is taking away some of the most mentaly and physcially fit humans from the planet and take away their genes

or even pollution its not like the suck it up when they attack a planet

or war for that matter, look at the Genii they had a coup that killed thousands of soldiers and toppled a government how did the wraith prevent that?

(Keep in mind, that on earth alone over the past 100 years, millions upon millions of people have been killed in war - soldiers and civilians alike. And just think of how many wars have been fought in those 100 years - World War I & II, Korean War, Vietnam War, dozens of conflicts in Europe, Asia, Africa and South America. How often do the Wraith make 'war' with humans? 10,000 years since the Ancient War, hundreds of years between cullings...sounds to me that the humans in the Pegasus galaxy live in more peace and security than we do here on earth!! )

Never since humans don't have the chance to advance to a point where they can truly defend themselves and when they do they are destroyed

Well lets see how safe it is in the PG because at any time a wraith dart could come to your house and cull you without having the chance to lift a hand to defend yourself. So you live in fear since you are born or until a wraith comes. Now lets go to Earth where no threat occurs such as this. I mean if a mugger tries to mug you then you have a chance, if another nation attacks then you have your military to defend you, I mean on Earth there is a chance of defending yourself and none in PG against the wraith

Also I never said Humans were perfect just said Wraith are evil

Good thing it's not up to you, or you'd have a buncha Wraith-worshipping humans taking YOU out!

From what I have seen Wraith worhsipers are weak and stuipd minded

Yeah, he's special. I hope he turns on Sheppard and sucks him dry!!

Nice funnin' with ya - just don't do it again or I'll have to go all 'feeding hand' on you!

I hope sheppard puts a bullet into his head

But hey we all have our own opinions

[Sparrow_hawk]

Yikes! Our messages crossed because I took such a long time to type things. I'd like to reply to some of what SO said:

Ok. I need to rant. Because like Das, I'm dreading S5. I'm actually thinking of only watching the Todd episodes, if not jumping ship all together. And I'll settle with my version of SGA that lives in my head. (Living on the river Denial!)

I share some of your concerns, but I don't think we should write off Season 5 just yet.

It bothers me that we never see our main cast, or even the writers, give any thought to the idea that not all Wraiths are the same. They (SGA and writers) think that all Wraiths kill, just because of their specialized diet.

The Wraith do kill humans to survive. They have never known any other way. Some also hunt and kill humans for sport. These things are facts. But I don't think that necessarily makes them evil, since they always considered humans as a food source, not another truly sentient race.

Which I think might not be true. What if there are Wraiths that only feed on their worshippers? Or volunteers? Or maybe there's a hive out there that has thousands of humans that they take a decade of years from. In exchange, those Wraith keep the humans they coexist with safe from other Wraith and humans. Or something.

I have considered such an alternative, too. Primative races on Earth made sacrifices to their gods. On some planets the people there may do the same with the Wraith and be protected from random cullings.

There's this lack of respectful awareness and basic decency in our characters that really puts me off. And it's not just towards the Wraith. Which is partly justifiable since they're the enemy. But they've treated other humans in Pegasus poorly, and I doubt they value those alliances seriously. Simply because they're not as technologically advance. Take the Travellers for example. Larrin and her people treated Sheppard badly, yet Sheppard's more than willing to negotiate for further relations. And that lack is starting to be telling on the ethnocentricity of the writers themselves and it bothers me. Every time I think about The Condemned, Michael, Trinity, Irresistible etc, I start disliking the characters and writers again.

I mean, a solar system was blown up, and they're ok with that? WTF? That's massive destruction! And nothing will ever live there again, and how can they be sure that there were no inhabitants? What if there's a shielding, cloak, or a time dilation? It's another example of being unable to comprehend life on a grand scale because advance technology and advance knowledge causes a disconnect with "living." And I do mean advance and not enlightened.

I agree and have expressed similar thoughts in the past on an alternate thread that das opened "Lanteans: Outwraithing the Wraith." You might want to stop by there.

It's hard to root for our heroes when they behave so badly. But the writing tells us otherwise. So I root for the Wraith. And I would really love it if Todd would be the enlightened mind and pull Pegasus together and find that coexistence.

A great thought!

think Teyla and Ronon should help him too. Todd has the firepower, Teyla and Ronon have the human diplomacy.

I think it might be the other way around. I think Todd is the one with the diplomatic mind. Maybe Teyla as well. It would be nice if the new race in Season 5 proved to be a common enemy that would require the Lanteans and Wraith, led by Todd, to work together.

That's one of the reasons why I loved Star Trek:TNG and Deep Space Nine. Sentient beings are sentient beings, they are not all the same, and they made their best effort to be diplomatic and find a middle ground so that everyone could coexist until it was absolutely impossible. And that their exploration wasn't just about acquiring science for growth. It was about the different ways of life, which paved the way for growth.* In SGA, I really feel it's all about cataloging information and science in the hopes of bettering Earth. Which doesn't make sense. Tech doesn't change people. Also in SGA, we're seeing the subtle worst of humanity and no attempts to change, or even a self-examination. They only acknowledge their strategic mistakes.

Much of our space program today is focused on improving the lot of humans on Earth, so I think some of the SG:A team's actions are consistent with that. But like you, I think their attitude toward everyone in the Pegasus Galaxy is an embarrassment. I fear humans are a xenophobic lot as a species. Except for us, of course. But remember that the reason the SG:A force went to Pegasus was to explore Atlantis, not to meet new people. Stop by the thread I mentioned above. I see that das posted there again today. I'll visit again and see what's new.

I guess the bottom line of this is that I agree with you. I just take a long time to say things!

postscript to fugiman: STARGATE: ATLANTIS IS SCIENCE FICTION! It isn't real and it is not appropriate to try to discuss it as if it is real.

[Wraithworshipper]

But hey we all have our own opinions

Yes. We do. This is the WRAITH DEFENDERS CLUB, so why are you here. You are NOT going to convert anyone.

I, for one, am tiring of playing with whoever this person is who should be my Master's next meal, so it goes to the iggy zone. Effective immediately.

Wraithworshipper
Annoying humans of this ilk have no idea of what I'm capable. If they did, they would fear me.

[MCH]

Originally Posted by fugiman
Wraith are evil

Reasons

They eat humans when they could clone humans instead and eats those but they choose to destroy worlds and forcfully take humans against their wills

Also they have made a whole galaxy of humans live in a world of fear (sounds like terriosts to me)

Also they have left the PG from advancing as everytime the Wraith Cull they make the humans go back to square one

So if it was up to me all of the 304s would go on raids into the PG to take out the Hives

But I will say todd's a pretty nice guy (but their has to be an expection)

Just some thoughts... From JenKM

1) We know that Michael can clone a human. Do we know how long it took him? No. Do we know that other Wraith can clone humans? No again. For all we know, Michael had to experiment for a long time before managing a successful cloning experiment.

2) How else are they going to eat? It's not like most humans would willing offer themselves up. Let's not forget it was the Ancients' fault Wraith exist in the first place.

3) Yes, humans do live in fear. What else is going to happen when there is a human-eating race created by the ever-wonderful Ancients--accidentally or not. It's not the fault of the Wraith that is how they evolved.

4) Why would the Wraith want humans to advance? Would you teach a deer to shoot a gun back at you for a more adrenaline-packed hunting experience?

Your willingness to destroy an entire race, in my opinon, makes you no better than the race you call evil.
__________________

Todd: I was going to write an elaborate program designed to slowly create a fatal error in the primary capacitor, but I doubt there'll be time for that now.

Ronon: I was just gonna blow it up.

JenKM I agree with you 100% you have a nice turn of pharse.

Fugiman your reaction is soooo human to the Wraith, their evil lets get rid of them. Yes their action to the humans they eat looks evil, but they came into existance due to the Ancients. Thay are part human part bug, the feeding comes from the bug part. In 38 Minutes Shepherd was feed upon by the Igrus Bug (Wrong spelling)
Micheal ended up cloning humans into hybrid wraith, why? Because he was angry at Atlantis trying to turn him into a human not once but twice they gave him the retrovirus. Second time after he helped them escape. Some thanks that turned out to be. To me you only have to look at events that have taken place in various conflicts on this world in the name of science to realise how moral bankrupt some of those acts have been.

One other thing I have noticed while I think the move to Stargate General Discussion is a good thing, it would be nice if newcomers would think about the posts here and not have a knee jerk reaction eg baal07 to the Wraith at least Fugiman took the time to give 4 reason, even if we don't agree.

We are beginning to see (when the SGA writers remember to) that there is a second side to the Wraith. So please if you have not been here before think about what you are saying politely and don't dismiss this thread\out of hand.
We are more than happy to respond to constructive critisim and give our replies.

Thank you MCH

[JenKM1216]

How is it the fault of the Ancinets? (no really did I miss an episode where this is stated)

Season One – Episode 18 – The Gift

WEIR: Your theory of the Wraith evolving after the Ancients arrived in Pegasus galaxy…

…

WEIR: The Wraith language -- it's a derivative of Ancient.

…

WEIR: Also interesting is the fact that the Wraith language appears to be a derivative of Ancient, which seems to suggest that the Wraith evolved after the Ancients arrived in Pegasus.

BECKETT: My theory is that the Ancients unwittingly allowed humans to evolve on a planet with, uh, insect species on it. At some point the insects fed on humans and somehow incorporated our DNA into theirs. The Wraith are an evolution of that combination.

FORD: So what you're saying is the Ancients actually created the Wraith?

BECKETT: By accident.

McKAY: Or negligence.

----------

There's your answer to that.

I'm not even going to discuss how immoral your idea of feeding on the clones is. If you feel that way, I guess you have no problem handing over Carson-clone.

Now, I'm not saying that I think the Wraith have great people skills or that I wouldn't be scared to death of them in real life, but they do have the right to live. Again, how is it their fault how they evolved? And how do you know they haven't been working on an alternative food source? I'd say centuries of hibernation would put a damper on such projects. We've seen they haven't really advanced past their current state. They're as stalled in their development as the humans are simply because of not having an alternate food source.

It's a big problem for everyone.

[fugiman]

JenKM I agree with you 100% you have a nice turn of pharse.

Fugiman your reaction is soooo human to the Wraith, their evil lets get rid of them.

As opposed to the wraith who kill anything that challenge them and then deemed evil, I mean they tried to destroy Atlantis

Yes their action to the humans they eat looks evil, but they came into existance due to the Ancients.

Seriously how did the Ancinets create them? I don't remember an eipisode where it says the Ancinets created the Wraith?

And on that topic its not like the Ancinets didn't try to stop them, they lost their entire space empire trying to save humans from the Wraith. The easy option for the Ancinets would have been to leave the PG and let the humans fend for themselves but guess what they didn't. They stayed until all they had left was one city.

Also when I say that I want to kill the Wraith off I'm a bad person, but when the Ancinets didn't kill the Wraith off in their early stages and let them grow then the Ancinets are at fault? How Hypocritical is that

Thay are part human part bug, the feeding comes from the bug part. In 38 Minutes Shepherd was feed upon by the Igrus Bug (Wrong spelling)

Still what prevents them from eating clones or animals? I mean really what sets humans apart from Livestock? I never got this at all

One other thing I have noticed while I think the move to Stargate General Discussion is a good thing, it would be nice if newcomers would think about the posts here and not have a knee jerk reaction eg baal07 to the Wraith at least Fugiman took the time to give 4 reason, even if we don't agree.

Well I like real debates with facts that are provable instead of just posting

Wraith=Evil

We are beginning to see (when the SGA writers remember to) that there is a second side to the Wraith. So please if you have not been here before think about what you are saying politely and don't dismiss this thread\out of hand.
We are more than happy to respond to constructive critisim and give our replies.

Good because I have only seen one good Wraith (Todd) and many evil one (to many to name)

[dasNdanger]

SH - it's reverse psychology - tell him NOT to come, and surely he will...

Or...not.

Anyway, StarOcean - I agree with so many of your thoughts...perhaps you should express them on JM's blog like the rest of us have...or just hope he stumbles upon this thread...(somebody, QUICK! Give him the link!).

Of course, JM is not the creator of the show, just a producer - he answers to people above him. Not sure who has the final say as to which direction the Wraith will go, but I really wish they'd move them away from the whole 'evil' thing, since they are not. The humans showed more concern for Fran - a freakin' machine - then they do the Wraith! ARRRRGGGHHH!!!!! VERY annoying.

There is such a double-standard in the writing - the Wraith are considered mere 'its' - while more fiendish sorts are considered worth saving. If they keep treating the Wraith as PG garbage, then...meh...maybe I'll just watch and rewatch S4 and be happy with that. But I love the idea of a symbiotic relationship between Wraith and human...that would be quite interesting to see...in fact, it's even an idea I've been toying with for a sort of fiction thing, but nothing I'd ever put on paper. It's just an idea of a co-dependent relationship between a Wraith and a human, one in which the Wraith actually feels 'affection' (not sexual desire) for the human, a feeling so alien to him that he's ashamed of it. And, of course, the human - a worshipper - just figures he/she is doing their expected duty by letting the Wraith feed, but for the Wraith it's sickening to feed upon someone they've come to care for...kinda like how we'd feel if we were starving, and forced to eat our pet.

As far as a Todd/Ruby ship - I'm jut not into ships at all...especially in this sort of show. I wouldn't mind a brother/sister or father/daughter relationship between Todd and Ruby, though I REALLY doubt it would be that at all. IF there is a relationship between Todd and any queen, it would probably be one of queen and her consort. Male characters just get too wussy when they have a woman to answer to, or fight for. I find the loner-type character more interesting - fighting for himself, or for the 'innocents' - but not doing it because he wants to get lucky.

Also, I pretty much see the Male Wraith as sexually dormant, and perfer to think of feeding as their greatest lustful pleasure. Just makes for a more interesting characterization than the whole dude thinking with his crotch that is common in most tv, lit, and movies today. Instead, I see male Wraith as thinking with their hand - or their hunger. So, instead of looking at a female and thinking, 'whoa! Nice boobs!' A Wraith will look at a woman and think, 'whoa! dinner!'

I think of how Steve smiled when he thought he was getting something good to eat - it was a most lascivious smile, wasn't it? But he wasn't thinking about anything sexual, just about food. Makes them far more interesting than creatures who - like humans - think mostly about sex.


das

[JenKM1216]

JenKM I agree with you 100% you have a nice turn of pharse.

Fugiman your reaction is soooo human to the Wraith, their evil lets get rid of them. Yes their action to the humans they eat looks evil, but they came into existance due to the Ancients. Thay are part human part bug, the feeding comes from the bug part. In 38 Minutes Shepherd was feed upon by the Igrus Bug (Wrong spelling)
Micheal ended up cloning humans into hybrid wraith, why? Because he was angry at Atlantis trying to turn him into a human not once but twice they gave him the retrovirus. Second time after he helped them escape. Some thanks that turned out to be. To me you only have to look at events that have taken place in various conflicts on this world in the name of science to realise how moral bankrupt some of those acts have been.

One other thing I have noticed while I think the move to Stargate General Discussion is a good thing, it would be nice if newcomers would think about the posts here and not have a knee jerk reaction eg baal07 to the Wraith at least Fugiman took the time to give 4 reason, even if we don't agree.

We are beginning to see (when the SGA writers remember to) that there is a second side to the Wraith. So please if you have not been here before think about what you are saying politely and don't dismiss this thread\out of hand.
We are more than happy to respond to constructive critisim and give our replies.

Thank you MCH

Thank you! I do try. I didn't want to come across poorly, but at the same time, this is the Wraith Defenders Club.

I agree about newcomers not having a knee jerk reaction. (Especially since I am a newcomer myself.) It makes sense to give some thought to a post before randomly attacking. And I respect that Fugiman took the time to give his reasons for his opinion. (Though I won't ever agree 100% with them.)