Wraith Defenders Club

[Todd's Pet]

Re the issue of Wraith sexuality/mammalian characteristics

It’s more than just that the queens have breasts (functioning or otherwise). There’s also the “problem” of the way in which Wraith males decorate themselves. Throughout human history males have had to compete for a mate and one of the ways they do this is to decorate themselves to vie for the females’ attention.
Given the male/female ratio among Wraith it’s not that surprising that Wraith males are highly decorated – the tattoos, the earrings and the hair braiding… there’s one reason and one reason alone for doing it – to stand out from the rest of the tribe and thereby attract a mate.
Yes, tattoos can denote rank, but higher rank makes you a better mate; they can also show that you’re man enough to take the pain, so the more tattoos the braver, therefore the better chance of attracting a mate. In addition long, luxurious hair = high hormone levels and a good state of health = better genes = a better bet as a mate… even down to the my-long-black-leather-coat-is-more-stylish-than-your-long-black-leather-coat is a form of the same competition... getting the theme here?
So, if they don’t want to attract the queen’s attention and entice her to mate with them, why do they bother?

[dasNdanger]

Hopefully, very small female infants wouldn't have teeth like those.

I dunno - baby teeth come in awful early! And baby teeth are sometimes the sharpest! I know kitten teeth are....yeeeeoooowwwwch!

Spoiler:

I was imagining 'Stargate Wraith' and Sheppard being another Wraith. From what we know of Wraith society their complex alliance and verbal interactions would be the kind of thing we'd expect.

Oh, yes...and we'd LOVE it. I put the question to Mallozzi - let's see if he bites. I wrote:

Spoiler:

Please, Mr. M, I was wondering if you could take a second to hear me out, and maybe answer a question (since it’s probably too late to ask Paul)…

By now, I pretty much figure that when you see my name, and ‘Wraith’ or ‘Todd’ in the same comment box, you pretty much tune me out. But, if you could just gimme a minute, I’d appreciate it…

You know I’ve been pretty annoyed with the way Sheppard has treated Todd since mid-season, and especially now in EatG. You previously said that the events in TLT have contributed to Sheppard’s attitude towards Todd, suggesting that Sheppard is allowing his human emotions dictate his actions.

However, in discussing the situation over at GW, ciannwn brought up a good point, namely that - perhaps - Sheppard is simply adopting Wraith-style communication tactics in his dealings with Todd. Looking at it this way - as one ‘Wraith’ talking to another - “You know how to talk to me, John Sheppard.” - then Sheppard’s attitude makes sense. Afterall, any display of compassion or apprehension would be a sign of weakness, right? If we saw that same conversation between Todd, and - let’s say - Kenny, we would have thought nothing of it at all. Still, it took several people discussing the subject to come to that conclusion - and we don’t even know if it’s a correct one. In other words, if this is message writers are trying to convey, it’s not very obvious.

So, if it’s too late to put this question to Paul, perhaps you can help us out - Is Sheppard putting on his Wraithy best in his dealings with Todd to get his point across - communicating with him in his ‘own language’, as it were - or is he just doing his human best to be the bullheaded jerk that he seems to be of late?

Please help me out here - it may help me see EatG in a much different light.

Thankies.

Re the issue of Wraith sexuality/mammalian characteristics

It’s more than just that the queens have breasts (functioning or otherwise). There’s also the “problem” of the way in which Wraith males decorate themselves. Throughout human history males have had to compete for a mate and one of the ways they do this is to decorate themselves to vie for the females’ attention.
Given the male/female ratio among Wraith it’s not that surprising that Wraith males are highly decorated – the tattoos, the earrings and the hair braiding… there’s one reason and one reason alone for doing it – to stand out from the rest of the tribe and thereby attract a mate.
Yes, tattoos can denote rank, but higher rank makes you a better mate; they can also show that you’re man enough to take the pain, so the more tattoos the braver, therefore the better chance of attracting a mate. In addition long, luxurious hair = high hormone levels and a good state of health = better genes = a better bet as a mate… even down to the my-long-black-leather-coat-is-more-stylish-than-your-long-black-leather-coat is a form of the same competition... getting the theme here?
So, if they don’t want to attract the queen’s attention and entice her to mate with them, why do they bother?

If that's the case - you gals can have ratty ol' Todd, I'm taking the luxuriantly-locked Kenny!!

What you say makes sense, especially in a species with so many males, so few females. Or, it could just be vanity - self-love. I know I tend to dress up for myself, and not for my husband - can never make him 100% happy anyway, so why try? But I CAN make myself happy...

So, maybe they do just doll themselves up for themselves, and no one else.

Here's the thing. I don't want to sound pervy, but here goes...

Spoiler:

Everyone seems to want Wraith to be creatures of sexual prowess, but...

Spoiler:

what if most male Wraith have not mated (due to either their sheer numbers, or reproductive habits that may not include direct contact between male and female)? So, if this is the case, and if they have

Spoiler:

the proper 'equipment',

Spoiler:

well, then...image...um...ya know...

Spoiler:

teaching them.

das

[Starry Waters]

Here's the thing. I don't want to sound pervy, but here goes...

Spoiler:

Everyone seems to want Wraith to be creatures of sexual prowess, but...

Spoiler:

what if most male Wraith have not mated (due to either their sheer numbers, or reproductive habits that may not include direct contact between male and female)? So, if this is the case, and if they have

Spoiler:

the proper 'equipment',

Spoiler:

well, then...image...um...ya know...

Spoiler:

teaching them.

das

You are the master of the box inside of a box, das!!!

[dasNdanger]

You are the master of the box inside of a box, das!!!

"I'm the best there is at what I do..."




das

[ciannwn]

Re the issue of Wraith sexuality/mammalian characteristics

It’s more than just that the queens have breasts (functioning or otherwise). There’s also the “problem” of the way in which Wraith males decorate themselves. Throughout human history males have had to compete for a mate and one of the ways they do this is to decorate themselves to vie for the females’ attention.

In most cultures throughout human history men haven't had to bother about attracting females. Our Western way of falling in love is a very modern invention. Marriages were arranged by parents and it was a standard way of cementing political alliances. The brides rarely had any choice in the matter and the grooms often had little choice either.

I found this article about human body decoration.

http://www.tedpolhemus.com/main_concept4%20467.html

But even today, in the modern world, that which appears to be done in the pursuit of individuality may actually serve to accomplish its opposite - demonstrating our membership in some social group or ‘tribe’. pp.7-8

‘The tribe is humankind’s most important invention. An inter-generational system, it allowed our most distant ancestors to pass on and build upon the discoveries made within one lifetime. The tribe also imposes rules and regulations which make communal life efficient, productive and powerful. But ‘our tribe’ is only a vague mental construct until it is literally embodied in the form our tribe’s distinctive appearance style. If tribe A decrees that the body should be painted with red stripes while the neighbouring tribe B decrees that the body should be painted with blue dots then immediately a clear line has been drawn between ‘us’ and ‘them’.

Young people are particularly fond of forming 'tribes' which have their own styles of dress and other ornamentation - eg. Mods, Rockers, Goths.

So what about tattoos?

‘To appreciate the true antiquity of tattooing it is necessary to appreciate its logic. Our ancestors were traditional peoples - wary of change, determined to preserve the status quo - and the permanent alterations of appearance made possible by the discovery of tattooing was (and is) perfectly suited to such a lifestyle. For example, the permanence of a tattoo could reflect the permanence of a rite of passage which marked (literally) a young man or woman’s coming of age and lifelong membership in a tribe. While our modern world may celebrate change and impermanence with the ephemeral, here-today-gone-tomorrow cycles of fashion, traditional societies are naturally drawn to those body arts like tattooing which resist the transitory and underline enduring stability.’ p.23

Maybe Wraith body decor is just artistic expression and once an individual settles on something he likes he wants it to last for thousands of years. Wraith seem to be very keen on conforming in other areas, though. All hive interiors look alike because we've never seen any decoration which sets one apart from another. All Wraith males wear a standard uniform no matter which hive they belong to. The only exceptions have been Bob, Greg and Michael in 'Allies' because they wore brown.

The individuals with the really distinctive styles of dress are the Queens. Why does each Queen have a unique outfit? After all, they wouldn't need to compete for male attention.

Given the male/female ratio among Wraith it’s not that surprising that Wraith males are highly decorated – the tattoos, the earrings and the hair braiding… there’s one reason and one reason alone for doing it – to stand out from the rest of the tribe and thereby attract a mate.
Yes, tattoos can denote rank, but higher rank makes you a better mate; they can also show that you’re man enough to take the pain, so the more tattoos the braver, therefore the better chance of attracting a mate.

Wraith are telepaths, though. Maybe Queen's are able to tell which males are 'brave', 'dominant' or whatever just by tuning into the telepathic network. It seems that Wraith have no need for personal names because of this telepathic network. If so, they wouldn't really need tattoos to denote rank either..

In addition long, luxurious hair = high hormone levels and a good state of health = better genes = a better bet as a mate…

That's Todd out of the running for a start because his hair always looks a tatty mess. The Sateda hive leader was bald except for one braid even though he was obviously a dominant male and most drones have long, luxurious hair even though they'd hardly be mate material.

even down to the my-long-black-leather-coat-is-more-stylish-than-your-long-black-leather-coat is a form of the same competition... getting the theme here?

Maybe I'm just not observant but all wraith leather coats look the same to me.

So, if they don’t want to attract the queen’s attention and entice her to mate with them, why do they bother?

Spoiler:

Spike had tattoos on his body. Why bother putting them there when Queens wouldn't see them?

PS::

I put the question to Mallozzi - let's see if he bites.

I hope he does because I'd be very interested in seeing his reply.

[leksa]

Here's something to ponder. What if they are not fully developed mammary glands yet? Humans can form breast tissue on other parts of their bodies - these sometimes have nipples, and sometimes they don't. So, if we - as humans - can form non-functioning breasts - whose to say that Wraith can't do the same? Maybe they are not that far along in the evolutionary process yet to have fully functioning mammary glands.

Here's an interesting article about it...

http://bodyodd.msnbc.msn.com/archive...2/1723123.aspx

So, they could have breast tissue, without those breasts having any function yet.


das

Yeah that's plausible.

[Mariellelita]

Just a thought...

If you were a mommy queen, would you REALLY want a baby one of THESE gnawing on your nip??! -

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Of course...Todd does seem to have smaller toofies...

das

lol! If I were a mommy queen, all my babies would be on formula, no ifs, ands, or buts about it! BTW, He looks deranged....

[Mariellelita]

What do you guys mean that the males don't want the Queen's attention? I never noticed that. That would be kind of odd since she is the only or one of few females onboard.

[leksa]

In human embryonic development, don't we start of with reptilian characteristics and lose these features as we develop? Also, we have an appendix, that currently serves no function. So there is precedent for keeping and losing various bodily features along the course of an individuals growth and maturation.
Perhaps with Wraith, and it has been shown that, at least the Queens, they start off with many human, mammalian features, only to "evolve" beyond them as they mature.
Possibly young Queens need to breast feed, and that is why the elder Queens retain the possibly functional glands?

Sorry, I edited your post above.
Yeah, we do. But again, we are reduced to guessing.
The most simplest explanation which can allow existence of the fully developed breasts in the adult Wraith female would put them more to human (or ancient) side of the DNA and "bug" part would be more-less just as an afterthought. Then you would have development as we human do, appearance of the breasts in the puberty, regardless does Wraith females use them or not.

[leksa]

We know that the females are significantly different to the males in some respects because the retrovirus didn't work on the 'Allies/No Man's Land' Queen. As new females seem to be produced very rarely it would be feasible for mothers to breast feed them. Maybe the nutritious liquid isn't mammal milk, though - it's some special substance which the infants need in order to develop into fully functioning Queens.

Mammals have evolved different ways of feeding. Some produce litters and have multiple nipples so they have to lie on their sides when their offspring want lunch. Others have udders so offspring can feed while they and their mothers are standing up. Humans, like all Great Apes, are designed so mothers can hold infants in their arms and the chest is, therefore, the ideal place to keep the catering equipment. The chest would be the ideal place for a Wraith Queen to keep her catering equipment too so evolution could have adapted human breasts to produce whatever Queens might produce instead of milk. After all, the human hand was adapted for Wraith feeding.



OK. Se we won't have a Wraith called Dobby, then. I just couldn't resist saying it, though.

Ahh, very good point. Nice explanation that keeps Wraith more at bug side and at the same time looking like primate females. Pity I couldn't give you green for this.

[masterling]

I

Maybe I'm just not observant but all wraith leather coats look the same to me.

erik from allies had a coat that only came to mid thigh

Spoiler:

Please, Mr. M, I was wondering if you could take a second to hear me out, and maybe answer a question (since it’s probably too late to ask Paul)…

By now, I pretty much figure that when you see my name, and ‘Wraith’ or ‘Todd’ in the same comment box, you pretty much tune me out. But, if you could just gimme a minute, I’d appreciate it…

You know I’ve been pretty annoyed with the way Sheppard has treated Todd since mid-season, and especially now in EatG. You previously said that the events in TLT have contributed to Sheppard’s attitude towards Todd, suggesting that Sheppard is allowing his human emotions dictate his actions.

However, in discussing the situation over at GW, ciannwn brought up a good point, namely that - perhaps - Sheppard is simply adopting Wraith-style communication tactics in his dealings with Todd. Looking at it this way - as one ‘Wraith’ talking to another - “You know how to talk to me, John Sheppard.” - then Sheppard’s attitude makes sense. Afterall, any display of compassion or apprehension would be a sign of weakness, right? If we saw that same conversation between Todd, and - let’s say - Kenny, we would have thought nothing of it at all. Still, it took several people discussing the subject to come to that conclusion - and we don’t even know if it’s a correct one. In other words, if this is message writers are trying to convey, it’s not very obvious.

So, if it’s too late to put this question to Paul, perhaps you can help us out - Is Sheppard putting on his Wraithy best in his dealings with Todd to get his point across - communicating with him in his ‘own language’, as it were - or is he just doing his human best to be the bullheaded jerk that he seems to be of late?

Please help me out here - it may help me see EatG in a much different light.

Thankies.

Here's the thing. I don't want to sound pervy, but here goes...

Spoiler:

Everyone seems to want Wraith to be creatures of sexual prowess, but...

Spoiler:

what if most male Wraith have not mated (due to either their sheer numbers, or reproductive habits that may not include direct contact between male and female)? So, if this is the case, and if they have

Spoiler:

the proper 'equipment',

Spoiler:

well, then...image...um...ya know...

Spoiler:

teaching them.

das

at least they are a quick study, but i can see thing going terribly wrong if they get frustrated.... ...ya end up….. a dried husk, and they are the ones that end up satisfied

[leksa]

I was looking at the EATG transcript to check if I could bear to watch it and something struck me. I then started trying to tie things together concerning the way that Sheppard treats Todd.

Spoiler:

SHEPPARD: The other ZeePMs you talked to Woolsey about – tell us where to get 'em and maybe it'll improve your situation.

TODD: Am I supposed to be enticed by this offer?

SHEPPARD: No. I'll probably kill you anyway. But don't forget: this Wraith betrayed you and got away with it. For no other reason, you might wanna do it out of pure spite.

(Todd leans back in its seat again, smiling slightly.)

TODD: You know how to talk to me, John Sheppard.

(It bursts out laughing.)

Maybe Sheppard really does instinctively knows that the best way to deal with Todd is by adopting Wraith style tactics. If this kind of conversation had occurred between two Wraith it would have seemed so normal that I wouldn't have thought anything of it. In 'Common Ground' Todd tells Sheppard

WRAITH: You are more like Wraith than you know.

Since then Sheppard has learned a lot about Wraith politics and how they go about things.

Why did Sheppard let Todd go to try the Iratus bug treatment? He'd been told that it didn't often work so he probably didn't expect to see Todd again. Even so, it wasn't a guaranteed death sentence because it occasionally worked. Sheppard would have been aware that there was a slim chance of Todd surviving so, logically, he let him go because this was the only chance he had after Keller failed to find a successful treatment for the disease. This brings me to the opening scene in EATG.

TODD: No doubt you're surprised to see me, John Sheppard.

SHEPPARD: Yeah. You weren't looking so good last time I saw you.

TODD: Yes, well, you'll be pleased to know the treatment was successful, although excruciatingly painful.

SHEPPARD (unsuccessfully trying to hide a grin): You're just sayin' that to make me feel good.

(Todd smiles briefly.)

What makes Sheppard grin and why does he try to hide it? Could it be that he was genuinely pleased to hear that the treatment was successful but he took advantage of Todd's saying it was excruciatingly painful to 'save face' Wraith style by pretending he was pleased about the pain? Todd's brief smile could suggest that he knew what Sheppard really meant and he approved of him not going soft and soppy by saying something like "I'm relieved to see you're still alive."

Sheppard also acts hostile about Todd but again, if I'd heard a Wraith talk about another Wraith in the way that Sheppard talks about Todd I wouldn't think anything of it. Maybe he instinctively knows that this is the safest way to go about things. It guarantees that nobody is likely to tell Todd "Sheppard actually likes you and has a high regard for you even though you're technically the enemy". Going by what we've seen of Wraith society, such feelings probably have to be concealed by complex deals involving verbal fencing which include death threats. Which brings me to -

TODD: If you really feel that way, why would you let me go after our last encounter?

SHEPPARD (turning back): We had a deal and you kept up your end of the bargain – and to be honest, I didn't think you'd live.

TODD: Ahhh.

Todd has received a very Wraithlike answer here. He knows that Sheppard would have been aware that there was a slim chance of the treatment working but it's likely that no Wraith would ever have admitted wanting him to have that slim chance. Emotions are untrustworthy things, too, so a reason based on having a deal is likely to have been a more satisfactory response from Todd's point of view than any indication that Sheppard had wanted him to live.

Now to the final scene.

TODD: So all's well. Your homeworld was saved, you and your friends survived and all thanks to my Zero Point Modules.

SHEPPARD: That's right. The question is, what would happen next time?

(Todd looks at him cautiously.)

TODD: Is there going to be a next time?

(John looks back at Todd thoughtfully.)

According to the transcript Todd hasn't shown any indication of being bothered by Sheppard's death threats up to now so what is he suddenly being cautious about? What is Sheppard being thoughtful about? Logically Todd would suspect that Atlantis being on Earth is going to complicate matters where his future is concerned. Perhaps he's cautious because he knows that Sheppard no longer has the same freedom to do his own thing. Is Sheppard thoughtful because he's wondering how he's going to arrange for Todd to get back to Pegasus? What does Sheppard's " The question is, what would happen next time?" supposed to be about? Is it the start of what will be more Wraithlike 'verbal fencing' where Sheppard's intentions to help Todd get away have to be concealed beneath a veneer of politics and deal making?

Reading a transcript isn't as good as actually seeing the episode, of course. I'm just hoping there isn't some visual detail which will make my musings fall apart at the seams.

Such a lovely analysis!

[leksa]

Just a thought...

If you were a mommy queen, would you REALLY want a baby one of THESE gnawing on your nip??! -

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Of course...Todd does seem to have smaller toofies...

das

Gawd, just considering it made my nipples ache.
Anyway, It is surprising that the adult Wraith has a teeth. I mean, why? They do not need to eat food. And teeth they "got" indicate that they should be carnivores....

[leksa]

Re the issue of Wraith sexuality/mammalian characteristics

It’s more than just that the queens have breasts (functioning or otherwise). There’s also the “problem” of the way in which Wraith males decorate themselves. Throughout human history males have had to compete for a mate and one of the ways they do this is to decorate themselves to vie for the females’ attention.
Given the male/female ratio among Wraith it’s not that surprising that Wraith males are highly decorated – the tattoos, the earrings and the hair braiding… there’s one reason and one reason alone for doing it – to stand out from the rest of the tribe and thereby attract a mate.
Yes, tattoos can denote rank, but higher rank makes you a better mate; they can also show that you’re man enough to take the pain, so the more tattoos the braver, therefore the better chance of attracting a mate. In addition long, luxurious hair = high hormone levels and a good state of health = better genes = a better bet as a mate… even down to the my-long-black-leather-coat-is-more-stylish-than-your-long-black-leather-coat is a form of the same competition... getting the theme here?
So, if they don’t want to attract the queen’s attention and entice her to mate with them, why do they bother?

Exactly! I agree with you. Perhaps that's why their society does not wish to show weakness either.

[ciannwn]

What do you guys mean that the males don't want the Queen's attention? I never noticed that. That would be kind of odd since she is the only or one of few females onboard.

We have no information at all about Wraith mating habits. In 'Spoils Of War' we saw a Queen secreting genetic material which produced male drones. Was a male necessary for this? Not if Wraith are like bees.

http://www.scienceray.com/Biology/Th...he-Bees.248825

A weird fact about bee reproduction is that fertilized eggs develop into females and unfertilized eggs develop into males. The mother has the choice to fertilize an egg with the sperm she has gathered, or not. She can also produce males without ever breeding in the first place.

If this is the case a Queen would only need to mate on the rare occasion that she wished to produce a female. The next question is who would a Queen mate with if she's produced most of the males in a hive because too much inbreeding is never a good thing. If all males decorate themselves in hope of attracting their Queen's attention it would mean that a very high proportion of them are hoping to mate with mother. Males do seem to switch hives on occasion but the drawback here is that the new male on a hive might be a good engineer but still not an ideal prospective mate genetically.

So how could it work? Maybe we can bring Ellia in here because she was being moved somewhere. What if it was to the hive she was supposed to rule? If so, once she matured she'd have had a choice of mates who weren't her brothers. Future inbreeding could also be avoided if Wraith Queens are like bee queens - they mate once in their lives and store sperm for the rare occasions when they want to produce a new female.

Would male Wraith adopt elaborate tattoos and other ornamentation on the off chance that their Queen would be killed and they'd end up with a new one who wasn't mother?