Did TPTB focus on McKay (and McKeller) destroy Stargate Atlantis in your opinion.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

how does someone grow a Hive Ship?

[Flyboy]

how does someone grow a Hive Ship?

Miracle-Grow.

[Dwparsnip]

Hardly.

It was doomed the moment the brain trust thought up SGU.

[x Varda x]

Hardly.

It was doomed the moment the brain trust thought up SGU.

Parsnip! Hi!

I should probably get out of here as fast as I can as it seems to be a Rodney and Jennifer disliking snark zone and safe haven to rant away endlessly [/rant]

If everyone here is looking for character development and stories focused on your favourite person who is not McKay or Keller, perhaps you should investigate fanfic? Seriously though, there are thousands of stories out there which flesh out the characters far more than TPTB ever did As SGA's over, it's the only place to go

[fumblesmcstupid]

Every main character should have been treated EQUALLY!

Fanfic???!!

OMG are you serious????

No character deserves the treatment that TPTB showed all characters that are
**NOT** Rodney and Keller in the fifth season..

Fanfic...puleeze

I just don't understand how a fan of the show can just blow off the rest of the characters like that?

*Keller* and ICKINESS that was the Rodney and Keller pairing is not the reason
why I watch SGA!

Fanfic.........whatever!

[bluealien]

Parsnip! Hi!

I should probably get out of here as fast as I can as it seems to be a Rodney and Jennifer disliking snark zone and safe haven to rant away endlessly [/rant]

If everyone here is looking for character development and stories focused on your favourite person who is not McKay or Keller, perhaps you should investigate fanfic? Seriously though, there are thousands of stories out there which flesh out the characters far more than TPTB ever did As SGA's over, it's the only place to go

What fans were looking for is each of the characters to be treated the same.. not having the writers and ptb falling over themselves writing only for one character... your favourite character got the most development on the show so I'm sure you're very happy about that, but fans of Teyla/Ronon and even Sheppard sadly cant say the same..

As for fanfic sadly it's the same.. there are zilions of McShep fics out there and McKeller isnt doing too badly either... writers for the other characters for the most part have moved on, as they got tired of waiting for their fav character to get something to do.....

[x Varda x]

Every main character should have been treated EQUALLY!
Fanfic???!!
OMG are you serious????
Fanfic...puleeze
Fanfic.........whatever!

Not a fan then? Sounds like you want to write some to include characters other than McKay and Keller With FF you can write anything and ignore whoever you (don't) like

What fans were looking for is each of the characters to be treated the same.. not having the writers and ptb falling over themselves writing only for one character... your favourite character got the most development on the show so I'm sure you're very happy about that, but fans of Teyla/Ronon and even Sheppard sadly cant say the same..

Yep, you caught me (dunno how ) I suppose I'm so into McKay that I never even noticed the other characters falling by the wayside. I think the ep 'Michael' only has McKay in it for one (short) scene if you're looking for a Rodney free zone

As for fanfic sadly it's the same.. there are zilions of McShep fics out there and McKeller isnt doing too badly either... writers for the other characters for the most part have moved on, as they got tired of waiting for their fav character to get something to do.....

People write for other characters? I hadn't noticed

*Goes off to write more Rodney whumpfic*

[Guest]

If everyone here is looking for character development and stories focused on your favourite person who is not McKay or Keller, perhaps you should investigate fanfic? Seriously though, there are thousands of stories out there which flesh out the characters far more than TPTB ever did As SGA's over, it's the only place to go

Excuse me?

Fanfic!?

You're telling me that in order to get a better enjoyment out of the characters created by TPTB, i've got to read what a FAN writes instead of the actual PTB? What about the CANON show? Does that suddenly mean nothing? Does the lack of any real backstory apart from an episode each for the other characters excuse the obvious love affair with McKeller? Does giving Ronon Amelia out of the friggin blue make it alright to have him be wallpaper? Does Teyla's non-existance because of her baby make it alright to focus on nerd love? And Sheppard? Did they just forget about him?

Are you seriiously saying that Fanfic is an appropriate addition to the CANON story for the rest of us who may not like McKeller? So i guess it's okay that millions of dollars were spent on a show developing what amounts to a romantic fantasy ending for the nerd everybody loves to hate?

ARGH... WTF! I might as well just say my own fanfics are better than Canon because i focus on characters the TPTB forgot about! That SERIOUSLY slapped me in the face like a 20 pound salmon!

As far as the main question, Did McKeller ruin SGA for me? Yes and no.

Yes as in where the hell did McKeller come from? LIke Varda said, Fanfic has given more credence to the ship than the actual episodes did (Hmmm Brainstorm is what? the 8th or 9th episode of the 5th searson? When did McKeller first "begin"? Trio? That's barely more than 10 episodes of development for "I've loved you... for quite some time"... How much is quite some time? A few months at best? That's known as Obession!

I've seen... 5 episodes of Season 5. and i don't even count search and rescue. so make that 4. "The Seed, The Daedalus Variations, The Queen, Whispers" and i have absolutely no interest in seeing any of the other episodes.

it's a team show, about an entire city and the struggles they have in surviving. by Season 5 Ronon basically becomes "Point me at what you want to die". and Teyla becomes wallpaper simply because as George Carlin put it, she pumped out a unit. S4 finally gave us some Sheppard backstory... and then what? We have to go to an Alternate Reality in season 5 to get some Shep? WTF?

I have no problem with McKay being in every episode, he IS a lead character. but so is Shep, Ronon, Teyla, and whoever's the commander of the base. Weir had some great moments, Sam (Amanda Tapping) was only signed on for 14 episodes. Woolsey is just plain wrong.

Season one was an ensemble cast, and i really think one of the better seasons. Season 2 continued that for the most part, with Season 3 somewhat strong until the midway point when they decided to kill Carson because his scottish accent is making the cameramen laugh too much and it costs too much to edit it out in post production (it's the only logical reason i can think of for dedicating an episode to killing a character)

SGA i think could have survived 1 death of a character. and really it should have been Elizabeth because TH didn't want to act in it anymore. I think people would have liked Sam better if she wasn't just a desk filler for the entirety of the season but that's mainly because AT was busy getting Sanctuary off the ground. If she had stayed for Season 5 and the focus on McKeller was the same amount they did with Katie.... then i think Season 5 would have been more liked by the fans... especially if they had more team oriented stories like in the earlier seasons.

I personally detest Woolsey. A beaurocrat does not a leader make, and the few episodes i've seen are the ones that have him the LEAST. All i needed to see was in "The Seed" when he gets the doors closed on him for comic relief (Totally unneeded.)

It was a combination of bad timing, actors leaving for logical reasons, strange decisions to get rid of characters and bring them back, a love affair with the inner nerd in all of us, and the writers living vicariously through the show.

THAT"S what killed SGA for me. and THAT'S why i'm writing my own ending that ends the show in Season 4.

[Ikaros]

No. It didn't. And whoa, reading some of your comments makes me really very angry indeed... McKay's a lead character, of course he's going to be in every episode!

If you look down the season 5 episode list you'll see that Rodney had one episode focused on him (The Shrine) just like all the other leads. There was only one blatantly McKeller episode (Brain Storm) and, again, Keller is a lead character. It's to be expected that's she's in the episodes!

I think you're all looking for something to blame for the downfall of Atlantis and McKay/McKeller are an easy target.

Amen.

Hardly.

It was doomed the moment the brain trust thought up SGU.

What fans were looking for is each of the characters to be treated the same.. not having the writers and ptb falling over themselves writing only for one character... your favourite character got the most development on the show so I'm sure you're very happy about that, but fans of Teyla/Ronon and even Sheppard sadly cant say the same..

No they don't , actually, Sheppard had much more time in the show, from the beginning. If he lost the "LION SHARE" at later seasons, you can't blame McKay for that. Blame the "smart Aleck" that killed Elizabeth. McKay and Zelenka kept the show running if you ask me.And Keller with Woolsey were great additions also.They gave to the show a certain spark that was lost when Torri Higginson left.
Sheppard (the character) had great episodes, always in action, always with a girl around etc etc. You can red me all you like, but it's the actor's fault that the character didn't became as interesting as McKay.And that goes for Teyla to.

[CazzBlade]

No they don't , actually, Sheppard had much more time in the show, from the beginning. If he lost the "LION SHARE" at later seasons, you can't blame McKay for that. Blame the "smart Aleck" that killed Elizabeth. McKay and Zelenka kept the show running if you ask me.And Keller with Woolsey were great additions also.They gave to the show a certain spark that was lost when Torri Higginson left.
Sheppard (the character) had great episodes, always in action, always with a girl around etc etc. You can red me all you like, but it's the actor's fault that the character didn't became as interesting as McKay.And that goes for Teyla to.

Reds are no longer available. So I'll just say that that is utterly disgraceful and very ignorant of other peoples opinions.

[ponycake]

While I ticked yes it's a very hestiant yes. I don't think that it was necessarily the focus on this as such, but that they don't seem to have been focussed on anything else.

It seems to have been the only real arc of the season and the only real character development because it was enthusiastically championed by Martin Gero and ran with. If the other writers had been as enthusiastic about other aspects of the show maybe we wouldn't have ended up with such a love it or hate it season.

I get the feeling that boredom had set in and they weren't all that particularly enthusiastic about it, hence why we ended up with the chopping and changing of characters, villians, and no real direction.

[Ikaros]

It seemed to me that they were making a new beginning, trying to focus on what they should follow next.The renegade Asgards, The Coalition and Kiryk were nice arcs if there had been a 6th season.
I don't know about enthusiasm, but they were certainly trying to introduce new things, because they had an almost new cast and new characters to develop among other things.
The 5th season was taking the show in new places, but it was only cancelled because some people wanted to have full control of their own franchise back, imho. Therefore the cancellation had nothing to do with characters, relationships and arcs.

[ponycake]

It seemed to me that they were making a new beginning, trying to focus on what they should follow next.The renegade Asgards, The Coalition and Kiryk were nice arcs if there had been a 6th season.
I don't know about enthusiasm, but they were certainly trying to introduce new things, because they had an almost new cast and new characters to develop among other things.
The 5th season was taking the show in new places, but it was only cancelled because some people wanted to have full control of their own franchise back, imho. Therefore the cancellation had nothing to do with characters, relationships and arcs.

They would have made sense if TPTB were writing arcs, but they weren't, it was episodic and things were brought into serve the purpose of an individual script not necessarily for the show as a whole. From the outlines that Mallozi released on his blog as possible season six storylines it would have remained that way.

And that's what I meant - they were introducing all these new characters etc but it doesn't seem to have worked, hence I think this is one of many reasons that SGA went byebye and SGU got the tick so they would have a new blank format to play with.

[Ikaros]

Reds are no longer available. So I'll just say that that is utterly disgraceful and very ignorant of other peoples opinions.

So is the question of this thread to others.!!!!Some people might see things different if they get of their "thunking" horses.

I've seen... 5 episodes of Season 5. and i don't even count search and rescue. so make that 4. "The Seed, The Daedalus Variations, The Queen, Whispers" and i have absolutely no interest in seeing any of the other episodes.

5 out of 20!!!!! but you spent quite some time typing and explaining why the show failed it's viewers in season 5 especially.

SGA i think could have survived 1 death of a character. and really it should have been Elizabeth because TH didn't want to act in it anymore.

How you know that? she said it somewhere? that it was her decision?

And that's what I meant - they were introducing all these new characters etc but it doesn't seem to have worked, hence I think this is one of many reasons that SGA went byebye and SGU got the tick so they would have a new blank format to play with.

I think SGU was planed long before Season 5 of Atlantis. And the reason is in my previous post.

[Guest]

Amen.







No they don't , actually, Sheppard had much more time in the show, from the beginning. If he lost the "LION SHARE" at later seasons, you can't blame McKay for that. Blame the "smart Aleck" that killed Elizabeth. McKay and Zelenka kept the show running if you ask me.And Keller with Woolsey were great additions also.They gave to the show a certain spark that was lost when Torri Higginson left.
Sheppard (the character) had great episodes, always in action, always with a girl around etc etc. You can red me all you like, but it's the actor's fault that the character didn't became as interesting as McKay.And that goes for Teyla to.

Let's compare see how McKay's (and eventually McKeller) progression went each season by counting how many episodes had a significant emphasis on him.. I won't count the first season as it was quite even then. Remember, Emphasis on teh character!

Season 2- Duet, Trinity, Grace under Pressure
Season 3- McKay and Mrs Miller, Tao of Rodney,
Season 4- Tabula Rasa, Miller's Crossing, Quarantine(to a degree), Harmony, Trio, The Last Man
Season 5- The Seed(For the obvious "Ohh i like Rodney" bit), The Shrine, Tracker(for the love triangle), Brainstorm, Identity

So that's 3 in Season 2, 2 in Season 3, 6 in Season 4, and 5 in Season 5. Also recall that teh ones in season 5 were blatant McKay and McKeller episodes unlike Quarantine which i only added as it did emphasize the Rodney/Katie fiasco as well as Trio that began the whole McKeller arc The Last Man might seem to be a Sheppard story, but who's the one who does all the exposition? who's the one who changed time for his undying love? (Take shot of insulin to keep the sugar levels down) Also ALOT of episodes in Season 5 had McKeller moments sprinkled plentifully on them.

Now let's look at the ones that focus on Sheppard (rememer, EMPHASIS on that character, Sheppard is the team leader and just being in an episode does not make it a Sheppard Episode)

Season 2: Conversion, Epiphany, the Long Goodbye(i only count this as it played on Shweir)
Season 3: Common Ground, Phantoms (We get to see some of Sheppard's backstory)
Season 4: Travelers(which was less about him and more about setting up a race to help with Asurans), Outcast
Season 5: Search and Rescue, Remnants, Vegas.

So that's 2 or three per season compared to Rodney's 3-6 per season. In total....

Rodney = 16 episodes (i'd be willing to shave 2 or three of those off.)

VS

Sheppard = 10 (And i'd be willing to shave 1-3 off of those as well)

Most of the extra McKay/Keller Episodes were Season 5.

Time in teh show does NOT equal character development or emphasis. And this is without even bringing Teyla or Ronon into the mix... Are they not part of the team as well? I could probably count how many episodes they have combined on both hands.


EDIT: Pretty sure it was in Season 4 Commentary that Torri wasn't coming back, Ever wonder why they brought Fran back instead of Torri for Ghost in the Machine?

I've watched 5 episodes. i've read detailed synopsis on the others. I'm not interested in seeing Rodney say to Keller after 6 episodes that he's loved her for quite some time. It's just not believable to me and ruins the atmosphere of the show for me.

I will say this, i would not red you even if i had the option. You have your opinion and i'm entitled to mine.