Dumbledore vs Gandalf

[jenks]

Are there any real hints that he's gay?? (besides the last book)

Not that I can remember, but there aren't any hints that he's straight either, so what's your point?

Just because he has a friend that's a guy, doesn't mean he is gay with him.

No, what makes him gay is that the author says he is.

Everyone knows that she did it for the publicity

Nonsense, her and the books have never been lacking in publicity.

and most people (like me) will never really accept that he is, it kinda ruins the whole point of him being a positive role model for Harry.

Ah, and the real reason for your argument, you're a bigot.

[Morbo]

Surprise surprise, in the face of a reasoned argument Morbo goes into baby mode. Why is it that every time someone posts something you don't agree with you inevitably regress?

no.
yes harry potter has some darker moments, etc, but to simply say that the characters in Lord of the Rings are shallow, and tolkien wrote nothing adult is absurd.

you probably think that new Kid Rock song is 100% original too, don't you.
meanwhile Warren Zevon is rolling in his grave...

[Trek_Girl42]

What made it interesting was that nobody noticed enough to ask the question aloud.

Rowling only revealed that Dumbledore was gay after a fan asked her if Dumbledore had ever been in love- there was never any evidence in the books to support that he was straight!

Are there any real hints that he's gay?? (besides the last book) Just because he has a friend that's a guy, doesn't mean he is gay with him. Everyone knows that she did it for the publicity and most people (like me) will never really accept that he is, it kinda ruins the whole point of him being a positive role model for Harry.

Yes, because being gay precludes a person from being a positive role model. Homophobic crap like this makes me sick.

[jenks]

no.
yes harry potter has some darker moments, etc, but to simply say that the characters in Lord of the Rings are shallow, and tolkien wrote nothing adult is absurd..

By comparisons I think the characters in LOTR are shallow in my opinion, none of the characters seem to interact like real people, except (ironically) the Hobbits. The rest of the characters seem to be stuck in either hero or villain mode, mainly because Tolkiens works are plot driven instead of character driven. And I honestly don't think Tolkein wrote anything that I'd call adult (though I've only read The Hobbit and the LOTR trilogy), that's not to say his stuff was childish, I may have exaggeratedly there, but as far as adult topics go his stuff is pretty bare.

you probably think that new Kid Rock song is 100% original too, don't you.
meanwhile Warren Zevon is rolling in his grave..

Never heard of either.

[Jeffala]

you probably think that new Kid Rock song is 100% original too, don't you.
meanwhile Warren Zevon is rolling in his grave...

Never heard of either.

You should give Zevon's work a listen. It's really good.

[AvatarIII]

i can't believe this thread has turned into a debate on homosexuality after i made one (what i thought was an) innocent comedic remark... all you homophobes go read the forever war!

[Cree]

Thank god this place isnt ful of homophobic d$cks, sorry but what a few peopel have said in here has really offended me, yes i am gay, so those who dont like the idea of harry potters mentor being gay... well just make sure you dont read the book to your children if/when you have some!

as for the point of the topic

DUMBLEDORE ALL THE WAY

[Agent_Dark]

dumbledore is gay

[Cree]

dumbledore is gay

that is soo the topic of this thread... dont worry its not like we had already spoke about this though?

[Agent_Dark]

it works on so many levels though

[Lady Snow]

By comparisons I think the characters in LOTR are shallow in my opinion, none of the characters seem to interact like real people, except (ironically) the Hobbits. The rest of the characters seem to be stuck in either hero or villain mode, mainly because Tolkiens works are plot driven instead of character driven. And I honestly don't think Tolkein wrote anything that I'd call adult (though I've only read The Hobbit and the LOTR trilogy), that's not to say his stuff was childish, I may have exaggeratedly there, but as far as adult topics go his stuff is pretty bare.

emphasis mine

I'm not sure we can call Rowling's villains three-dimensional across the board. Or, you know, at all. And aside from the kids, there aren't a whole lot of instances where, say, Moody (the real one) isn't a "hero"-type. Or Hagrid, for that matter. I think a lot of the problems you have with Tolkien can also reliably be applied to Rowling.

And I think The Silmarillion might change your mind about the adult concepts. Though I am curious, what are you defining as "adult"?

[jenks]

emphasis mine

I'm not sure we can call Rowling's villains three-dimensional across the board. Or, you know, at all. And aside from the kids, there aren't a whole lot of instances where, say, Moody (the real one) isn't a "hero"-type. Or Hagrid, for that matter. I think a lot of the problems you have with Tolkien can also reliably be applied to Rowling.

Maybe, but to a much lesser extent in my opinion. There are a few cliche hero and villain types in Rowling's work, but I think the vast majority are 3D. I mean think of Snape and Sirius, could you imagine well developed (gray) characters like that in Tolkien's books? Naa that would get in the way of the plot too much.

And I think The Silmarillion might change your mind about the adult concepts. Though I am curious, what are you defining as "adult"?

Anything with some moral or emotional implications beyond good v bad I suppose, though I'm not saying these sort of things should be added to his works, they're fine as they are, I'm making more of an observation than a criticism.

[Lady Snow]

Wait a minute, Sirius was a 3D character? I fail to see that. Entirely. From what I saw of him through the three books where he appeared, he was an emotionally-stunted man who never grew up. I never felt much complexity behind his character, nor much sympathy for him - he was just there, being obnoxious. I will, of course, grant that Snape was a fair bit deeper than the typical Rowling bad guy, but he's the singular exception to any of her villains being complex - there was no complexity behind Bellatrix, Voldemort, Umbridge, Fudge, or 99.9% of the other "non-heroes" found in the books. I'm not saying there's none, I'm saying that it's equally non-existent to the lack of depth in Tolkien. Especially among the baddies.

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BTW, as for the main topic of this thread, I hold with Gandalf the White pwning Dumbledore, but a very pretty show of lights between Gandalf the Gray and Dumbledore.

[MasySyma]

While I enjoy both characters, I vote for Gandalf.

Dumbledore would use many complex spells and appear to be in the lead, but Gandalf's powers are best when threatened. Gandalf would win.

[The Prophet]

Well, Gandalf came back from the dead...

Dumbledore just sort of... stayed there... or something similar.

So even if Dumbledore defeated Gandalf; he could possibly just return... I'm guessing... Unlike Dumbledore; who'll stay dead...

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