AVP 2 Rainbow

[kharn the betrayer]

Aren't the aliens really called Xenomorphs?

yes but really you can call them both considering they are Aliens and most people know them by one name or the other

[Daniel Jackson]

I actually cared for the characters in Alien/Aliens cant say the same for any other alien movie

I didn't care too much for the characters in Alien. Ripley, Dallas, and Lambert were the only ones. The black guy and the skinny guy were greedy whiners, Ash didn't seem trustworthy, and Cane was just there to have the Alien birth out of him.

how can you take 2 well know R rated franchises that are known for extream violence(especially Predator which was the standard summer 80's blockbuster gorefest) and try to kiddify them is beyond me

Uh... what? I'm sorry, but AVP being Rated PG-13 does not mean it was "kiddified." If I had children, I would not show them the movie until they were in their late teens. It is extremely violent. If you think AVP is kiddified, you've been desensitized to violence.

expecially since Alien and Aliens didnt just have gore going for them and had good characters/plotlines other than them getting ripped to shreds(the whole plot about Ash in the first movie was intreiging and the Newt/Hicks/Ripley dynamic and the plotline about them being used to get aliens back to earth to be turned into super weopons joy!)

Alien Resurrection and AVP also had good plotlines. The characters in Resurrection were lame, but I found the AVP characters interesting enough to watch. I agree with your comments on the first two Alien movies.

The economic concerns of the various crew? The cameraderie of the crew when left to their own devices? The vast and mysterious alien ship? The female/male dynamic? The reveal of Ash as an android? The reveal of the company as being far more heartless and profit-driven than we'd realized to that point? There's plenty of depth to it.

What economic concerns? What cameraderie, they all got on each other's nerves! As for the vast and mysterious alien ship, I'd seen than countless times before I saw Alien. The female/male dynamic was nothing new. The reveal of Ash as an android is one of the few things in the movie that left me very surprised! As for the reveal of the company as being far more heartless and profit-driven, I saw Aliens first, so it wasn't a big surprise for me.

I didn't say you should be watching the movies for the gore, but to skip/delay seeing a movie because of it seems kind of...I don't know, immature? That's not really the right word but it's the closest I can think of just now. Blood and gore are just a part of the movie. Hell, the original chestburster scene in Alien has become one of the most iconic scenes in cinematic history.

Wow... I'm not sure how to respond to this... Blood and gore might be just part of a movie for you, but for me, it can determine wether or not I see the movie. It has absolutely nothing to do with maturity. Did it ever occur to you that some people simply don't want to watch people get hacked to pieces in a movie? Yes, I understand that the Alien / Predator movies are violent, but the preview for AVP2 looks far worse than anything I've seen in the various movies.

[kharn the betrayer]

Uh... what? I'm sorry, but AVP being Rated PG-13 does not mean it was "kiddified." If I had children, I would not show them the movie until they were in their late teens. It is extremely violent. If you think AVP is kiddified, you've been desensitized to violence.

my friends cant get me to sit through 2 hours worth of ''Saw'' flicks dew to the fact many of the things in those movies make me cringe or just outright leave the room

Slasher gore flicks that are just for the sake of gore are something I tend to not be able to stand period(with very few exceptions)

so I don't see how I'm desensitized to violence

Alien Resurrection and AVP also had good plotlines. The characters in Resurrection were lame, but I found the AVP characters interesting enough to watch. I agree with your comments on the first two Alien movies.

I dissagree

I found AvP to have great potential(considering the amount of source material for the 3 franchises) but fell flat on its face

[Daniel Jackson]

my friends cant get me to sit through 2 hours worth of ''Saw'' flicks dew to the fact many of the things in those movies make me cringe or just outright leave the room Slasher gore flicks that are just for the sake of gore are something I tend to not be able to stand period so I don't see how I'm desensitized to violence

Gore and violence are two separate things. If someone is not somewhat bothered by movie violence, the person is desensitized to violence. It's one thing if it's a movie you've seen before and know what to expect, but if it's a movie you haven't seen before, and the violence doesn't upset you, well... that's called being desensitized to violence.

I found AvP to have great potential(considering the amount of source material for the 3 franchises) but fell flat on its face

Why's that?

[kharn the betrayer]

Gore and violence are two separate things. If someone is not somewhat bothered by movie violence, the person is desensitized to violence. It's one thing if it's a movie you've seen before and know what to expect, but if it's a movie you haven't seen before, and the violence doesn't upset you, well... that's called being desensitized to violence.

most slasher gore flicks tend to have violent brutal deaths *points to the Texas chainsaw massacre*

and the term violence can cover many things any ways its just that some get more reaction to me than others

especially when it involves the abuse young children and Animals and more realistic violence in general(domestic abuse ect ect)

as far as im concerned Fantasy violence(aka movies/videos games blah blah blah) and realistic violence cant be compared

Why's that?

the Amount of Lore between the 3 franchises it staggering(through various books/comics, games and of coarse the movies) and they barley scratched the surface of it

it didnt help the movie was the shortest in the series but I was hoping(other than seeing Predators/Aliens kick each other asses) to see more into predator culture and how they came about the Xenomorphs and what not (the whole using Aliens to test young bloods is from the novels)

we already know how they hunt and the novels/comics gives some details about their society so why not try to expand apon it but they took practically no advantage of it and just recycled stuff we pretty much new about already

[Daniel Jackson]

most slasher gore flicks tend to have violent brutal deaths *points to the Texas chainsaw massacre* and the term violence can cover many things any ways its just that some get more reaction to me than others especially when it involves the abuse young children and Animals and more realistic violence in general(domestic abuse ect ect) as far as im concerned Fantasy violence(aka movies/videos games blah blah blah) and realistic violence cant be compared

I can understand that some violence bothers you while other types don't. However, I don't see it as realistic and fantastical violence... violence is violence as far as I'm concerned, regardless of how sugarcoated or realistic it is presented. My issue isn't so much with violence as it is with graphic violence and violence resulting in gore and death. If it's the type of violence where the hero beats up the villain, that's OK by me.

the Amount of Lore between the 3 franchises it staggering(through various books/comics, games and of coarse the movies) and they barley scratched the surface of it

The only Alien / Predator stories I care for are the movies. All I wanted from AVP was a good Alien movie and a good Predator movie. I found it entertaining on both fronts. Judging AVP on it's relation to the movies, disregarding other media, do you still see it as a bad movie?

it didnt help the movie was the shortest in the series but I was hoping(other than seeing Predators/Aliens kick each other asses) to see more into predator culture and how they came about the Xenomorphs and what not (the whole using Aliens to test young bloods is from the novels)

I didn't notice the movie's short length, there was plenty of time to tell the story. As for gaining insight into Predator culture and how they discovered the Xenomorphs... the idea is to tell the story from man's perspective, not from the Predator's perspective. Also, using Aliens to test young Predators? There's nothing in this movie to indicate that this is what was happening. All that we know is that three Predators visited Earth to hunt the Aliens. Now, if there was a scene that explained the Aliens were a "test" for young Predators, it's been a while since I've seen the movie, so please correct me.

we already know how they hunt and the novels/comics gives some details about their society so why not try to expand apon it but they took practically no advantage of it and just recycled stuff we pretty much new about already

Blah... I don't care about the novels/comics. I only care about the movies. Don't take this to mean I don't like to read, because I do. I just don't consider the books to be part of the Alien/Predator franchise's official continuity. I would imagine only the movies count.

[kharn the betrayer]

The only Alien / Predator stories I care for are the movies. All I wanted from AVP was a good Alien movie and a good Predator movie. I found it entertaining on both fronts. Judging AVP on it's relation to the movies, disregarding other media, do you still see it as a bad movie?

yes I do

I didn't notice the movie's short length, there was plenty of time to tell the story. As for gaining insight into Predator culture and how they discovered the Xenomorphs... the idea is to tell the story from man's perspective, not from the Predator's perspective. Also, using Aliens to test young Predators? There's nothing in this movie to indicate that this is what was happening. All that we know is that three Predators visited Earth to hunt the Aliens. Now, if there was a scene that explained the Aliens were a "test" for young Predators, it's been a while since I've seen the movie, so please correct me.

it wasnt in the movie itself but from the directors mouth himself in a featurette which you can watch here

http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/avp/featurette/

and you didnt have to be in the predators perspective to learn about their culture and stuff they where a realy old pyramid

they could have added a scene where some scientists stumble apon a room with hyroglyphs that depicted how and why they stumbled apon the xenomorphs and give us alittle more detail into what they are like and what not

Blah... I don't care about the novels/comics. I only care about the movies. Don't take this to mean I don't like to read, because I do. I just don't consider the books to be part of the Alien/Predator franchise's official continuity. I would imagine only the movies count.

the whole premise of the young bloods being blooded on aliens which was used in the movie comes from those novels and stuff

as much as I dislike the movie Anderson did put alot of research into making it

and it is rather obvious he takes stuff from those sources(the human female being accepted by the Predator when she kills an alien is taken directly from the comics and the predalien also shows up) even if you dont think they are canon you cant deny the influence


now any ways heres an on the set vid for AvP 2

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QQ6B4nlNt...elated&search=

[Daniel Jackson]

yes I do

Why?

it wasnt in the movie itself

Oh... well... I only count what was actually in the finished movie.

and you didnt have to be in the predators perspective to learn about their culture and stuff they where a realy old pyramid

True, but I think they'd be more focused on survival than reading hyroglyphs.

they could have added a scene where some scientists stumble apon a room with hyroglyphs that depicted how and why they stumbled apon the xenomorphs and give us alittle more detail into what they are like and what not

Perhaps, but that doesn't really contribute to the movie's story, so it would have slowed the story down. Besides, the story of Predators as gods on ancient Earth, hunting Aliens was plenty.

the whole premise of the young bloods being blooded on aliens which was used in the movie comes from those novels and stuff

Well, the novels contradict the first two Predator movies. If young Predators hunt Aliens, why would they ever bother with easilly-killable Humans, eh?

as much as I dislike the movie Anderson did put alot of research into making it

It doesn't seem like it... the movie is loaded with factual and historical errors.

and it is rather obvious he takes stuff from those sources(the human female being accepted by the Predator when she kills an alien is taken directly from the comics and the predalien also shows up) even if you dont think they are canon you cant deny the influence

You're right, I don't deny the influence, I just can't bring myself to care about how the movie fits into novels and comic books I've never read.

[kharn the betrayer]

Why?

I found the movie dull and the action rather lame

I got no suspense from watching it like I did in Alien/Aliens(which while more action based did have its moments) and the Action certainly didnt live up to its predecessors either

Oh... well... I only count what was actually in the finished movie.

doesnt matter what you think though if the Director (aka the guy who made the movie and who's word is god as far as the movies plotline is concerned) says the predators in the movies are young bloods taking a test of man hood then they are young predators taking a test of manhood in the movie

Well, the novels contradict the first two Predator movies. If young Predators hunt Aliens, why would they ever bother with easilly-killable Humans, eh?

they dont contradict them just because young bloods hunt aliens as a test of manhood doesnt stop the predators from considering humans worthy prey expecially since Humans have the capibilty of killing them

you seem to underestimate what we can do when we are cornered and fighting for our lives and the predators in both predator 1 and 2 payed for it with their lives (the predator in the first movie got beaten and commited suicide)


they consider us worthy prey and so they hunt us and as Predator prooved they hunt many many things ranging from Xenomporhs to whateve rthe hell was on that trophy rack

It doesn't seem like it... the movie is loaded with factual and historical errors.

he did research on the AvP franchise I didnt mean historical accuacy

AvP universe=/= our one and thus doesnt have to be 100% accuate to our history

he took many pieces of AvP lore(which have been arround for over a decade) and mixed and matched

You're right, I don't deny the influence, I just can't bring myself to care about how the movie fits into novels and comic books I've never read.

doesnt mean they don't exist though

just because you havnt read them doesnt mean a whole decades worth of lore is just going to go *poof* because you don't care enough to read them

[Daniel Jackson]

I found the movie dull and the action rather lame I got no suspense from watching it like I did in Alien/Aliens(which while more action based did have its moments) and the Action certainly didnt live up to its predecessors either

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it, I found the suspense and action to be great.

doesnt matter what you think though if the Director (aka the guy who made the movie and who's word is god as far as the movies plotline is concerned) says the predators in the movies are young bloods taking a test of man hood then they are young predators taking a test of manhood in the movie

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with this. I don't care what the director says behind the scenes, if it's not in the finished movie, than it's not official. What the director says is no more official than a deleted scene. Now, this doesn't mean that such information can't be used in a sequel. If the Director wanted the audience to think these were young Predators taking a test of manhood, then that should have been put into the movie. As is, it comes off (to me) as adult Predators hunting one of their toughest prey.

they dont contradict them just because young bloods hunt aliens as a test of manhood doesnt stop the predators from considering humans worthy prey expecially since Humans have the capibilty of killing them

Good point, I guess Humans do make good prey, evidenced by the first two movies.

he did research on the AvP franchise I didnt mean historical accuacy

Oh... it would have been a better movie if he did research for historical accuracy to make the movie more realistic.

AvP universe=/= our one and thus doesnt have to be 100% accuate to our history

That's a lame excuse for poor writing. What about the fact that there were more Aliens than hosts, the fact that the pyramid simply stopped shifting half way through the movie, the aliens gestating from Human hosts in mere minutes, the lame three civilizations located in Antarctica part, the clock-lock on the gun-chest, and so forth... All of that was very poorly handled.

he took many pieces of AvP lore(which have been arround for over a decade) and mixed and matched

Can't comment since the ony AVP lore I know anything about is the movie.

doesnt mean they don't exist though

I'm not saying they didn't exist, I'm just saying I don't care.

just because you havnt read them doesnt mean a whole decades worth of lore is just going to go *poof* because you don't care enough to read them

Wow, stop overreacting. I never suggested the AVP lore should poof out of existance, I just said I don't care about AVP lore (beyond the movie).

[kharn the betrayer]

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with this. I don't care what the director says behind the scenes, if it's not in the finished movie, than it's not official. What the director says is no more official than a deleted scene. Now, this doesn't mean that such information can't be used in a sequel. If the Director wanted the audience to think these were young Predators taking a test of manhood, then that should have been put into the movie. As is, it comes off (to me) as adult Predators hunting one of their toughest prey.

like you said before it was from a human perspective how would the humans know they where young predators (plus the preds arnt exactly that talkative now are they)

maybe they added a scene into the extended cut ( I wouldent know as i never saw the extended cut)

and any ways 2 experienced predators wouldn't get owned by a single alien like they did in the movie (though that was poorly handled in general)

That's a lame excuse for poor writing. What about the fact that there were more Aliens than hosts, the fact that the pyramid simply stopped shifting half way through the movie, the aliens gestating from Human hosts in mere minutes, the lame three civilizations located in Antarctica part, the clock-lock on the gun-chest, and so forth... All of that was very poorly handled.

I never said it wasnt bad writing (because what you brought basically was though I never payed attention about the amount of Aliens running about)

I just said AvP earth=/=our earth and doesn't have to be 100% accurate (which it obviously doesn't)


he may have did a good deal of research on AvP and put many elements from it into the movie but I never did say he did it well >_>

[Daniel Jackson]

like you said before it was from a human perspective how would the humans know they where young predators

Ultimately, we don't know, because the movie doesn't tell the audience.

maybe they added a scene into the extended cut ( I wouldent know as i never saw the extended cut)

I haven't seen the extended cut yet, but from what I've read, none of the added scenes reveal the age group of the Predators.

and any ways 2 experienced predators wouldn't get owned by a single alien like they did in the movie (though that was poorly handled in general)

Get owned? English, please? There were three Predators, and it's not unreasonable for two of the three (prior to the showdown with the Queen) to be killed by the Aliens. If anything, it says to the audience that the Aliens are the ultimate prey!

I just said AvP earth=/=our earth and doesn't have to be 100% accurate (which it obviously doesn't)

I understand this, but it struck me as poor writing rather than a creative alternate history. It just doesn't make any sense at all for those three civilizations to be united like that.

[DigiFluid]

What economic concerns? What cameraderie, they all got on each other's nerves! As for the vast and mysterious alien ship, I'd seen than countless times before I saw Alien. The female/male dynamic was nothing new. The reveal of Ash as an android is one of the few things in the movie that left me very surprised! As for the reveal of the company as being far more heartless and profit-driven, I saw Aliens first, so it wasn't a big surprise for me.

Economics: The engineers bickering with both the captain and Ash about how they were getting paid, their stock options, etc etc.

Crew relationships: Bickering is still camaraderie. It demonstrates a depth of characterization in the film. Particularly when you see that they all still get along ie the meal, pre-chestbursting.

Derelict ship: Just because you'd seen it before doesn't mean that it wasn't remarkably well done, particularly considering that Alien was released in 1979.

Female/male dynamic: Yes, it was. Weaver/Ripley established the tough female heroine figure in modern cinema.

Seeing Aliens first: Whose fault was that? Doesn't mean that Ridley Scott's original vision of the company was any less stunning or revealing.

Wow... I'm not sure how to respond to this... Blood and gore might be just part of a movie for you, but for me, it can determine wether or not I see the movie. It has absolutely nothing to do with maturity. Did it ever occur to you that some people simply don't want to watch people get hacked to pieces in a movie? Yes, I understand that the Alien / Predator movies are violent, but the preview for AVP2 looks far worse than anything I've seen in the various movies.

It is part of the films. The whole bloody point is to make an action film with a science-fictiony twist to it, in both franchises. And in order to not make it suck, they fleshed it out. But the point and driving force behind both franchises is still watching something from another world gut a dozen people and then we win in the end. I mean, you're talking about watching Debbie Does Dallas for the acting here.

[the fifth man]

The amount of violence and gore in these movies is kind of expected for me. That's what they've been about in the past, and why should that change? A movie can be very violent and gory, and still be a good movie.

[Daniel Jackson]

Economics: The engineers bickering with both the captain and Ash about how they were getting paid, their stock options, etc etc.

That was greed, not economics.

Crew relationships: Bickering is still camaraderie. It demonstrates a depth of characterization in the film. Particularly when you see that they all still get along ie the meal, pre-chestbursting.

Bicking is not camaraderie, it's a sign of disliking one's peers. They bicker, because they can't stand each other. They get along at meals and stuff, because they've no choice... there's only seven people on the ship. It's get along, or be alone.

Derelict ship: Just because you'd seen it before doesn't mean that it wasn't remarkably well done, particularly considering that Alien was released in 1979.

Did I say it wasn't remarkably well done? No. I simply said it was nothing new for me.

Female/male dynamic: Yes, it was. Weaver/Ripley established the tough female heroine figure in modern cinema.

Being a tough heroine has absolutely nothing to do with the male/female dynamic. Yes, Weaver's "Ripley" helped establish strong heroines in movies, but the male/female dynamic, namely Ripley's interaction with the men was nothing special.

Seeing Aliens first: Whose fault was that? Doesn't mean that Ridley Scott's original vision of the company was any less stunning or revealing.

Fault? All I'm saying is that after seeing the depiction of Weyland-Yutani and Berk in the sequel, Ash just wasn't as disturbing.

It is part of the films. The whole bloody point is to make an action film with a science-fictiony twist to it, in both franchises. And in order to not make it suck, they fleshed it out. But the point and driving force behind both franchises is still watching something from another world gut a dozen people and then we win in the end. I mean, you're talking about watching Debbie Does Dallas for the acting here.

The point of the Alien movies is to scare the audience, the point of the Predator movies is to tell an action movie where the predator (man) becomes the prey. Both stories could have been done very little gore and still been just as scary and full of action. Granted, the chest-bursting scene in Alien was important to the plot, so that didn't bother me too much. The point and driving force of both Alien and Predator is not just to watch an alien gut people, the movies are deeper than that.