Pre - Lord of the Rings - Silmarillion

[Mr Prophet]

Well, they didn't 'completely' cut out them, they just briefly showed them, like for one second, and maybe not, because they never mention if it was them or not. Like Cirdan, mone of my favorite Sindar/Teleri elves I think he was one of the three elves who got one of the rings shown at the beginning of fotr, and they never mentioned Cirdan giving the ring to Gandalf. Sorry for the spoiling of the book, but i'm in rage, haha... They didn't show Goldberry, Radagast, and Tom Bombadil, and although they have small parts, i think they have pretty important parts, like how Tom Bombadil wasn't affected by the ring's power, which i thought was interesting.

I don't think the book of The Lord of the Rings actually mentions how Gandalf got his ring, or if it's there it's only in passing. That's part of the Histories.

What got my goat was Celeborn getting on the boat with Galadriel, because he can't do that! He's not allowed into the West, it's this huge tragic thing because he can't go and she can't stay! Of course, that's basically Silmarillion territory as well.

Radagast was there; he was being played by a large hawk moth, but it was brown!

And Tom Bombadil was cut for a very simple reason: He's a pointless and irritating waste of space, based on a doll, who was included in the original as an act of pure indulgence and has rightly been excised from all adaptations ever! He's the nearest Tolkien gets to a blatant Mary Sue. Tom Bombadil isn't affected by the ring because he's dead kewl and he's all that, or possibly just because he is in no way important or relevant to the story of the Ring in any way, shape or form. The only thing of consequence in the entire section is the finding of the Numenorian daggers.

I teach seven-year olds in primary school. Only one of them knows anything about the book of Lord of the Rings and his favourite characters are Tom and Goldberry. I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry.

If it needs saying, the above is all my opinion, by the by.

[Elwe Singollo]

I don't think the book of The Lord of the Rings actually mentions how Gandalf got his ring, or if it's there it's only in passing. That's part of the Histories.

What got my goat was Celeborn getting on the boat with Galadriel, because he can't do that! He's not allowed into the West, it's this huge tragic thing because he can't go and she can't stay! Of course, that's basically Silmarillion territory as well.

Radagast was there; he was being played by a large hawk moth, but it was brown!

And Tom Bombadil was cut for a very simple reason: He's a pointless and irritating waste of space, based on a doll, who was included in the original as an act of pure indulgence and has rightly been excised from all adaptations ever! He's the nearest Tolkien gets to a blatant Mary Sue. Tom Bombadil isn't affected by the ring because he's dead kewl and he's all that, or possibly just because he is in no way important or relevant to the story of the Ring in any way, shape or form. The only thing of consequence in the entire section is the finding of the Numenorian daggers.

I teach seven-year olds in primary school. Only one of them knows anything about the book of Lord of the Rings and his favourite characters are Tom and Goldberry. I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry.

If it needs saying, the above is all my opinion, by the by.

I have to totally agree with you view on Tom Bombadil, which really sounds like a good explanation why they didn't use him.

I also just realized what you said about Celeborn and Galadriel is really confusing as well! Hmm...

[Mr Prophet]

I also just realized what you said about Celeborn and Galadriel is really confusing as well! Hmm...

Well in the movie it's just not a thing that he's a Noldor (is that right; it's been a couple of years) and she's a ringbearer, so I guess they figured why not go for a slightly happier ending.

[Elwe Singollo]

Well in the movie it's just not a thing that he's a Noldor (is that right; it's been a couple of years) and she's a ringbearer, so I guess they figured why not go for a slightly happier ending.

Im pretty sure Celeborn is a Sindar elf, so yah, i can't see why he can't go, i think i forgot to read something, but i thought he wasn't banned, he just decided not to go to Valinor yet.

[Mr Prophet]

Im pretty sure Celeborn is a Sindar elf, so yah, i can't see why he can't go, i think i forgot to read something, but i thought he wasn't banned, he just decided not to go to Valinor yet.

IIRC, those who didn't go in the first place were barred forever after. I don't even think Celeborn had been born at the time, but his race aren't allowed.

[Elwe Singollo]

IIRC, those who didn't go in the first place were barred forever after. I don't even think Celeborn had been born at the time, but his race aren't allowed.

I remember now, thanks. Gosh, thats booty then, haha... Oh well, at least Elwing got to go.

Does anyone just go '???!!!' when they look at family trees, and see how Celeborn and Galadriel are related in a way?

Galadriel, daughter of Finarfin (King of Noldor) and Earwen (Niece of Elwe/Thingol).

Celeborn, son of Galadhon (son of Elmo, brother of Elwe/Thingol).

So pretty much they are like... second cousins? I get really confused on family trees... Haha...

[Dahak]

OK I could be wrong but here is what I think is going on with the various Elves. Any Sindar is allowed to go "to the west" basicly a heaven/Xanadu type of place where the gods live.
Galadrial probably can't go because she is the only Noldorian Elf with noble blood that was alive at the time. Almost all of her family got killed which is roughly what the Silmarlillion is about. I am not sure if the other Noldorian Elves who helped the Finwe clan steal the boats and killed the other tribe of Elves are allowed back if they didn't take the "amnesty" after the first age was over. I do remember that most went back and had to face some sort of punishment.
After all Elrond was able to go back to the west and he was born in the first age. The gods aren't mad at the Sindar for being there or even for not coming back. They were mad at the Noldorian Elves for killing their cousins. So I doubt that any Noldorian Elves born in Middle Earth would face their parents punishment.

[Elwe Singollo]

Galadrial probably can't go because she is the only Noldorian Elf with noble blood that was alive at the time.

What do you mean by noble? Someone who has been to Valinor/the West?

After all Elrond was able to go back to the west and he was born in the first age. The gods aren't mad at the Sindar for being there or even for not coming back. They were mad at the Noldorian Elves for killing their cousins. So I doubt that any Noldorian Elves born in Middle Earth would face their parents punishment.

Also, if i remember, that all Noldor born from 'oathbreakers' or whatever that came to ME was 'cursed', hence Finduilas, 'the doomed daughter of Orodreth'. Also, Elrond was also Noldor, from his fathers side.

[Mr Prophet]

Galadriel can go because she's a ringbearer and all ringbearers have to leave in order to end the Third Age. I may be wrong about Celeborn, but I was sure it was mentioned somewhere...Oh well.

[Elwe Singollo]

Galadriel can go because she's a ringbearer and all ringbearers have to leave in order to end the Third Age. I may be wrong about Celeborn, but I was sure it was mentioned somewhere...Oh well.

Well yah, i understand why Galadriel went, because 'she overcame the seduction of the ring' or something like that, but yes, the whole Celeborn thing your talking about is something familiar, or 'sounds' familiar at least.

[Dahak]

What do you mean by noble? Someone who has been to Valinor/the West?
Also, if i remember, that all Noldor born from 'oathbreakers' or whatever that came to ME was 'cursed', hence Finduilas, 'the doomed daughter of Orodreth'. Also, Elrond was also Noldor, from his fathers side.

Galadriel is the only descendant of Finwe that left Valinor. She is part of the Royal Family. The curse was lifted at the end when Elrond's parents went back to Valinor and sang a song about how much ME sucked. Morgoth had pretty much won at that time but the gods and the Elves in Valinor felt sorry for them so sent an army to help out. Of course they were stupid and LET Sauron go.
Yes Elrond is a quarter Noldor, quarter Sindar, and 2 quarters human (of 2 different noble lines). Add his brother into it who all the Numenors are descended from and his wife who I think was Legalos's aunt or something like that he is related to pretty much everyone. Must be hard to find a date if you are an Elf. Eternal life spans and really low birthrates would make it pretty tough.

[Elwe Singollo]

Galadriel is the only descendant of Finwe that left Valinor. She is part of the Royal Family. The curse was lifted at the end when Elrond's parents went back to Valinor and sang a song about how much ME sucked. Morgoth had pretty much won at that time but the gods and the Elves in Valinor felt sorry for them so sent an army to help out. Of course they were stupid and LET Sauron go.
Yes Elrond is a quarter Noldor, quarter Sindar, and 2 quarters human (of 2 different noble lines). Add his brother into it who all the Numenors are descended from and his wife who I think was Legalos's aunt or something like that he is related to pretty much everyone. Must be hard to find a date if you are an Elf. Eternal life spans and really low birthrates would make it pretty tough.

I guess Elves live without birth defects when having a child with someone your related to? Haha... Oh well, there are more disturbing things in Tolkien's brain... Especially that part about possible ways for an Elf to die, "..great grief" or something, to me, sounds 'poetic', but i dont know how, it just does, haha... Could you add the Maia blood that Elrond possibly has through Melian?

[Seastallion]

I found the Silmarillion very informative, in the context of trying to understand the world of Middle Earth. I was fascinated by the concept of the universe being made from 'music'. That was something that was part of Greek mythology, and even more notable in light of String Theory in physics. It is a beautiful way of imagining the creation of the universe, and the fact it is a real life theory as well (albeit, not quite the same as in the book) just makes it that much better.

I was also delighted to have a better understanding of Gandalf. He wasn't just a Wizard, he was in fact, what christians would refer to as an Angel. It took a bit for me to figure that out, because I had to sort of get all the deities straight. There was the 'Source', or the one true God, then there were the 14 High gods. Then below them were the lower gods, and below them what might be called Arch Angels. After that was Gandalfs race, which might be thought of as Angels (as opposed to ArchAngels), and he was considered to be among the wisest and most important of them.

Also, understanding Aragorns lineage helped me to understand the importance of his marriage to Arwen. (technically they're REALLY distant cousins) The whole idea was to restore the lost glory of the Numenorean race, which was founded by Elrond's brother, then to be restored by Elrond's daughter. I liked the book, but I also found it an odd read... It doesn't flow like a 'novel' does, and that makes it harder to keep up with.

[Dahak]

Yeah Aragorn and Arwen would have been what? Like 2nd cousins 189times removed? It can be hard for me to keep my cousins straight and none of them are imortal.

[ConspiraciesAreFUN]

An idea that Japanese TV uses is instead of a Series be on a linear timeline, They'll run a season, and if it does well, they'll run another series that takes place say 20 years later. And since Elves are immortal and all, age wouldn't be a large casting nightmare.

The Legend of Feanor, starring Dolph Lundgren!! (sorry, i'll go chop a finger off for that one).