Harry Potter Discussion and Appreciation Thread

[Erised]

no it was low to create another thread because we here got a little off topic

[Major Tyler]

no it was low to create another thread because we here got a little off topic

Sorry, that was not my intention. Since this thread was mostly discussing book six, I thought a new thread on my topic of the TWT in book four was justified. If ya'll would prefer I merge it with this thread I'd be happy to oblige. Just let me know.

[Erised]

Sorry, that was not my intention. Since this thread was mostly discussing horcruxes, I thought a new thread on my topic was justified. If ya'll would prefer I merge it with this thread I'd be happy to oblige. Just let me know.

oh sure show your new fancy mod provoligies
this thread is about discussing anything you want. It was created before book 6 so here you go. Discuss the triwizard tournament. Horcruxes cause fights here

[Major Tyler]

this thread is about discussing anything you want. It was created before book 6 so here you go. Discuss the triwizard tournament. Horcruxes cause fights here

Okay!
___________________

In a real Tri-Wizard Tournament (no cheating and no Harry) I believe Viktor Krum would have won, hands down.

I think that Viktor Krum would have ultimately won because he received the least amount of assistance (if any) from Crouch, Jr. and/or Harry and the most hindrance from Crouch, Jr. To those of you stating that Krum's success was due mostly to Karkaroff, even if that were true (which I'm not convinced it is), Karkaroff would have helped him in a fair game. It's not against the rules for him to help Krum prepare, and there is no indication that Karkaroff had access to the same information that Crouch, Jr. was spreading while impersonating Moody.

Task One:
In GoF, Harry and Cedric (and probably Fleur since Madame Maxime also saw the dragons) knew what they were in for because Crouch, Jr. suggested Hagrid show Harry, who subsequently told Cedric. Krum did not have access to this information (that I recall) and still triumphed.

In a fairly-played Tournament, Harry would not have been a factor, and all three of the champions would have been caught unawares, and (since he's already proven that he can) Krum would have overwhelmingly won.

Task Two:
In GoF, Cedric was told the means to decipher the egg so that he would feel obligated to tell Harry. Fleur and Krum (presumably) riddled it out on their own. Fleur was attacked by grindy-lows and forced to forfeit, while Krum successfully retrieved Hermione on his own.

In a fairly-played Tournament, again, Harry would not have been a factor so Cedric would not have been told how to decipher the egg. Since Cedric told Harry a mere two days prior to the Task about the riddle, it stands to reason that we was told shortly before that. That being the case, it is very unlikely that, in a fairly-played tournment, Cedric could have figured it out on his own within a period of two days if it had eluded him for all the weeks since the first task.

The result? Most likely Cedric would have failed to procure a means buy which to breathe underwater and would be forced to forfeit. Since we already know how the task worked out for Fleur and Krum, clearly Krum would not only have won, but would have been the only one to finish.

Edit: Even if Cedric was aware of the bubble-head charm independently (of which there is no evidence), he still would have to battle grindy-lows and other beasties of the deep, and he probably would not have been prepared for that. Since Krum riddled out the clue before-hand, he would be (and he was) very prepared and likely would have completed the task before Cedric.

Even if Cedric completed the task before Krum, his lead would have been marginal (as Krum finished right after him), and it is likely that Krum's lead from the first task would have over-shadowed it. I believe my following conclusion about the third task is applicable in either of these cases.

Task Three:
In GoF: Krum was the third to enter the maze and was quickly put under the Imperious Curse by Crouch Jr., completely nullifying anything he did in the maze as an example of what Krum would really do.

In a fairly-played Tournament, Krum would have been vastly ahead of Cedric and Fleur, and would have been the first to enter. Since we cannot know how well Cedric and Fleur did in the First Task (other than knowing Krum beat them) I cannot say who entered after Krum, but I think that point is moot, anyway. In the maze, I think a Durmstrang education would have served Krum well. People may think he is stupid, but I do not. There was a reason he was chosen as the Durmstrang Champion, and the Goblet of Fire is not likely to have chosen someone who is stupid. His knowledge of the Dark Arts, coupled with his head-start, would have clinched his victory, and his status as Tri-Wizard Champion would have been all but assured.

In a fairly-played Tournament, Viktor Krum would have gone down in history, and eternal glory would have been his.

[Erised]

Fleur had help from Madame Maxime
Cedric had a help from Harry and Moody
Harry had help from Moody.
Krum had help from Karkaroff.
we will never know who is truly the best. But I love Harry so there.

[Lightsabre]

Okay!
___________________

In a real Tri-Wizard Tournament (no cheating and no Harry) I believe Viktor Krum would have won, hands down.

I think that Viktor Krum would have ultimately won because he received the least amount of assistance (if any) from Crouch, Jr. and/or Harry and the most hindrance from Crouch, Jr. To those of you stating that Krum's success was due mostly to Karkaroff, even if that were true (which I'm not convinced it is), Karkaroff would have helped him in a fair game. It's not against the rules for him to help Krum prepare, and there is no indication that Karkaroff had access to the same information that Crouch, Jr. was spreading while impersonating Moody.

Task One:
In GoF, Harry and Cedric (and probably Fleur since Madame Maxime also saw the dragons) knew what they were in for because Crouch, Jr. suggested Hagrid show Harry, who subsequently told Cedric. Krum did not have access to this information (that I recall) and still triumphed.

In a fairly-played Tournament, Harry would not have been a factor, and all three of the champions would have been caught unawares, and (since he's already proven that he can) Krum would have overwhelmingly won.

Task Two:
In GoF, Cedric was told the means to decipher the egg so that he would feel obligated to tell Harry. Fleur and Krum (presumably) riddled it out on their own. Fleur was attacked by grindy-lows and forced to forfeit, while Krum successfully retrieved Hermione on his own.

In a fairly-played Tournament, again, Harry would not have been a factor so Cedric would not have been told how to decipher the egg. Since Cedric told Harry a mere two days prior to the Task about the riddle, it stands to reason that we was told shortly before that. That being the case, it is very unlikely that, in a fairly-played tournment, Cedric could have figured it out on his own within a period of two days if it had eluded him for all the weeks since the first task.

The result? Most likely Cedric would have failed to procure a means buy which to breathe underwater and would be forced to forfeit. Since we already know how the task worked out for Fleur and Krum, clearly Krum would not only have won, but would have been the only one to finish.

Edit: Even if Cedric was aware of the bubble-head charm independently (of which there is no evidence), he still would have to battle grindy-lows and other beasties of the deep, and he probably would not have been prepared for that. Since Krum riddled out the clue before-hand, he would be (and he was) very prepared and likely would have completed the task before Cedric.

Even if Cedric completed the task before Krum, his lead would have been marginal (as Krum finished right after him), and it is likely that Krum's lead from the first task would have over-shadowed it. I believe my following conclusion about the third task is applicable in either of these cases.

Task Three:
In GoF: Krum was the third to enter the maze and was quickly put under the Imperious Curse by Crouch Jr., completely nullifying anything he did in the maze as an example of what Krum would really do.

In a fairly-played Tournament, Krum would have been vastly ahead of Cedric and Fleur, and would have been the first to enter. Since we cannot know how well Cedric and Fleur did in the First Task (other than knowing Krum beat them) I cannot say who entered after Krum, but I think that point is moot, anyway. In the maze, I think a Durmstrang education would have served Krum well. People may think he is stupid, but I do not. There was a reason he was chosen as the Durmstrang Champion, and the Goblet of Fire is not likely to have chosen someone who is stupid. His knowledge of the Dark Arts, coupled with his head-start, would have clinched his victory, and his status as Tri-Wizard Champion would have been all but assured.

In a fairly-played Tournament, Viktor Krum would have gone down in history, and eternal glory would have been his.

I've gotta disagree here Major.
Krum did have help. It's clear in the Dragon scene, IN THE BOOK, that Karkaroff told Krum about the dragons, just as Maxine told Fleur.
He may or may not have had help with the egg, just as Fleur may or may not.
Cedric and even Harry may have been able to work the egg out, we'll never know.
Cedric DID beat Krum to the hostages, remember. So, all things being equal, Cedric would have won that task.
Finally, the maze.
Again, we can't really say. All four of them fought spells and creatures in teh maze. The fact that Mad-eye cursed Krum and had him curse Fleur doesn't mean they were superior wizards, simply that they weren't the ones he wanted in the center.
As to the who should have won, I guess we'll never know!

[Erised]

everyone had help so we will never know who is truly the best.

[Major Tyler]

I've gotta disagree here Major.
Krum did have help. It's clear in the Dragon scene, IN THE BOOK, that Karkaroff told Krum about the dragons, just as Maxine told Fleur.

Really? I haven't read the book in a while. If this is true, it only further substantiates my theory. If Karkaroff told Krum about the dragon, that just means it is even more likely that he would have creamed Cedric and Fleur in the first task.

He may or may not have had help with the egg, just as Fleur may or may not.
Cedric and even Harry may have been able to work the egg out, we'll never know.

True, but I think the evidence is pretty clear that Cedric and Harry had no idea what to do with the egg.

Cedric DID beat Krum to the hostages, remember. So, all things being equal, Cedric would have won that task.

He only beat Krum because he was told about the egg. If he failed to decipher the clue, he would likely have failed the task.

Finally, the maze.
Again, we can't really say. All four of them fought spells and creatures in the maze. The fact that Mad-eye cursed Krum and had him curse Fleur doesn't mean they were superior wizards, simply that they weren't the ones he wanted in the center.
As to the who should have won, I guess we'll never know!

I agree that the last task is more ambiguous, but if my previous assertions are true, it's a safe bet to say that Krum would have had the best chance.

Oh yeah, and Krum rocks!

[Erised]

I think the actor that plays Krum is a HOTTIE! They actually made him less good looking for the movie! Can you believe that??
Bulgarian language is very similar to Russian! yay! A hottie who is closer to me in ethnicity!

oh and I don't pronounce Hermione as Krum does. ... I dunno why he supposedly does it I pronounce it like Americans and British do..

[Major Tyler]

I think the actor that plays Krum is a HOTTIE! They actually made him less good looking for the movie! Can you believe that??
Bulgarian language is very similar to Russian! yay! A hottie who is closer to me in ethnicity!

oh and I don't pronounce Hermione as Krum does. ... I dunno why he supposedly does it I pronounce it like Americans and British do..

I think it's great that they got a real Bulgarian to play Krum. I didn't really care much for Viktor in the book, but Stan did a great job making him likeable in the film. I wish he had more lines...I really wanted to hear him say Herm-own-ninny.

He kind of looks like Orlando Bloom...except much cooler.

[SlytherinGal]

me too...i wanted him to say Herm-oh-ninny too

[Major Tyler]

They actually made him less good looking for the movie! Can you believe that??

Really? Well they didn't do a very good job of it, did they? It's funny...in every interview I've seen with Director Mike Newell, he always talks about Stan's "pretty eyes."

[SlytherinGal]

kind of going off the topic of GoF...but what do you guys hope to see in the 5th movie and 7th book

[Easter Lily]

I think the actor that plays Krum is a HOTTIE! They actually made him less good looking for the movie! Can you believe that??
Bulgarian language is very similar to Russian! yay! A hottie who is closer to me in ethnicity!

oh and I don't pronounce Hermione as Krum does. ... I dunno why he supposedly does it I pronounce it like Americans and British do..

Krum doesn't do anything for me, I'm afraid... A bit too much on the brawnish side.
Not really Hermione's type either...

[Erised]

kind of going off the topic of GoF...but what do you guys hope to see in the 5th movie

Umbridge's detention, "I must not tell lies!"
Dudley Demented
Trial, possible suspension from Hogwarts
Dumbledore's army and their meetins in the Room of Requirement
Fred and George: "Give her hell from us, Peeves!"
McGonaggal: "It unscrews the other way!"
Fred and George messing up the school!"
Development of Ginny
Ministry of Magic, the Veil, hall of prophesies
Hear the prophesy
Occlumency lessons
Snape's Worst Memory
Number 12, Grimmauld Place
Harry going out of control with Ron and Hermione
A locket found in Sirius' place IS A MUST! Let's hope the writers realize that.
Quidditch
All the other very important stuff which I can't remember

I will drown the producers in hate mail if they leave something that I mentioned out!!!!!

what I don't really care if they put it in the movie:

S.P.E.W.
Gwap (sp?) Hagrid's brother. Seriously. Last time I read OotP, I skipped this chapter!
All the extra not important stuff, which will take out about 100 pages from the book.