Torchwood Episode Discussion (Spoilers for all eps aired in the UK)

[BruTak]

I thought that was the point. Then you'd be more surprised by the twist in the pilot. Joss Whedon wanted to do the same thing with Jessie for BtVS

My point exactly.

Any of the characters could be killed off at any time.

[Trek_Girl42]

My point exactly.

Any of the characters could be killed off at any time.

I sure feel that now.....

Oh. My. God.

I did not see that ending coming. Well, I did with Owen, but right up until the moment when her eyes closed I fully expected a typical last minute save of Tosh. Even then, I was like no way, until they played that last video and deleted her from the system. Thumbs up to Chris Chibnall (that was who wrote it I presume?) for writing two very well-done deaths. I actually felt sad when Owen died, and I never would have expected that. And Tosh earned some sniffles.

And yes, I hope they both stay dead. No resurrections please.

I thought the finale was really good- I also did not expect Jack to actually stay buried for 2000 years. Holy crap! I also noticed JM played his character a little more subdued in this ep. Good on him. It's a season finale and it's first and foremost about the Torchwood team, not the super-awesome guest character, as super-awesome as he is.

Any word yet on renewal? If it doesn't get renewed this was a great ending, but I'd really like to see it continue.....It's clearly getting better and better as it goes along. I wonder if Martha will come on full time if it gets renewed- that would be great, she was good with all the cast.....

[Catsitter]

Season finale:

Not quite sure what the spoiler situation is supposed to be, so I'll put it all in spoiler tags just to be on the safe side!!

Spoiler:

I also noticed JM played his character a little more subdued in this ep. Good on him. It's a season finale and it's first and foremost about the Torchwood team, not the super-awesome guest character, as super-awesome as he is.

You're not kidding - he seemed like a completely different character to me! If I still had the other episode he was in on tape I would rewatch it to see if his actions in that one could really be explained by this one but I've taped over it ages ago. I don't remember him trying to give any clues about what was really going on in that one except a mention of Gray, so I suspect the writers hadn't actually planned the end of the season when they wrote the beginning. Anybody rewatched the first episode who can find any hints in it?

I'm actually glad that Owen seems to have gone if they couldn't think of a way to bring him back to full life again - I don't think they could have continued with him in the "walking dead" state any longer. But it's a shame they couldn't turn him back to normal and keep him for the next series if there is one, as they had done so much development of his character.

As for whether they make another series of it or not - since the BBC didn't even make a second series of "Outlaws" or "Party Animals", two of my favourite series of recent years, I can't begin to guess. But it does seem as though John Barrowman might be rather busy doing other stuff!

[Flyboy]

Season finale:

Not quite sure what the spoiler situation is supposed to be, so I'll put it all in spoiler tags just to be on the safe side!!

Spoiler:

You're not kidding - he seemed like a completely different character to me! If I still had the other episode he was in on tape I would rewatch it to see if his actions in that one could really be explained by this one but I've taped over it ages ago. I don't remember him trying to give any clues about what was really going on in that one except a mention of Gray, so I suspect the writers hadn't actually planned the end of the season when they wrote the beginning. Anybody rewatched the first episode who can find any hints in it?

I'm actually glad that Owen seems to have gone if they couldn't think of a way to bring him back to full life again - I don't think they could have continued with him in the "walking dead" state any longer. But it's a shame they couldn't turn him back to normal and keep him for the next series if there is one, as they had done so much development of his character.

As for whether they make another series of it or not - since the BBC didn't even make a second series of "Outlaws" or "Party Animals", two of my favourite series of recent years, I can't begin to guess. But it does seem as though John Barrowman might be rather busy doing other stuff!

On the other hand, look at The Hustle, Spooks, Life On Mars (which in a way is having four seasons), the BBC isn't abandoning succesful shows.

[Catsitter]

Yeah, but those are all BBC1 series, aren't they? And Torchwood is a BBC2 / BBC3 one like the ones I mentioned. In other words, they are expecting lower audience figures than for the BBC1 programmes, but Torchwood must have a pretty big budget.

Another little nitpick thing that reminded me of "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" - wasn't it established at the end of series one that Jack's real name is not Captain Jack Harkness? So how come people who have known him all his life call him Jack? (If you're wondering why it reminds me of HHGTTG, Ford Prefect was supposed to have chosen his name for his visit to Earth, but then when he goes back into space and meets his cousin Zaphod, he's still known as Ford.) Are we to assume that his real name was Jack and that's why he chose to assume the identity of another Jack? My head hurts trying to figure it out...

[BruTak]

Torchwood - "Mostly Harmelss"

[ShadowMaat]

FINALLY got to see the finale and OMG do I wish I'd had a tissue box with me!

It was a brilliantly played ep, IMO, and I agree that Stargate (and a few other shows, quite frankly) should take some notes because- assuming Torchwood really does stick with that ending- that is how it should be done.

spoiler tags are probably moot after this much time, but I'll use 'em anyway.

Spoiler:

Too often in scifi character deaths are meaningless attempts to jerk the emotions and boost the ratings. The set-up for their deaths is often gimmicky and over-dramatic and, okay, maybe that's the case here, too, but DANG did it ever work for me!

I think the other big issue with death in scifi is that there tends to be a high turnover rate- kill off a character in one ep and then ta-dah! A couple eps (or a season) later they're magically alive again. I sincerely hope Torchwood doesn't go that route. Just because you CAN bring characters back from the dead doesn't mean you SHOULD. Although I'd like to know what happened to Jack's Kiss of Life. They used it a lot in the first season, but there've been no attempts at it in S2. Did he use up his allotment? Did encountering Abbadon switch it off? Whatever. I'm kinda glad it's gone.

I'm also a bit surprised they allowed the bombing of Cardiff to stand. I figured there'd be some time jump to make it all not have happened. I guess I'm just so used to that sort of gimmick I've come to expect it, but it was nice to see some aftermath. And watching the surviving teammates clean up after Tosh and Owen... *sniffle* And Tosh's final goodbye... *SNIFFLE* Boy, I wish some other PTB knew how to write like that. Aftershock. Consequences. Fallout. Grief. Granted, the real telling will be in the S3 premiere, but I'm thinking it's a safe bet that Torchwood will still be hurting for a while to come. Unlike SOME shows.

I don't necessarily think the "grief" should drag out for the whole season (I got sick to death of all the Rose, Rose, Rose crap on Who), but it'd be nice for them to acknowledge that Tosh and Owen actually existed and that Jack & Co. remember and miss them.

They snuck (sneaked?) in some good stuff in passing. I particularly liked the bit about Tosh and can I just say I'm really loving Rhys? I always felt sorry for him before because he got so thoroughly ignored and abused by Gwen (and for a while I was desperately afraid he was going to get killed in this ep) but I think he's really coming into his own now. Makes me hate Gwen all the more, but it's nice to see that Rhys is more than just a doormat. And Andy. *huggles* Poor, poor Andy. Hee! The Time Agency stuff? Rocked.

S2 was a definite improvement over S1 IMO. It got a bit weak in the middle but it wasn't as overall bad as I thought S1 was and that finale made up for a fair bit, too. Wow. Bring on S3!

[Trek_Girl42]

Yeah, but those are all BBC1 series, aren't they? And Torchwood is a BBC2 / BBC3 one like the ones I mentioned. In other words, they are expecting lower audience figures than for the BBC1 programmes, but Torchwood must have a pretty big budget.

Another little nitpick thing that reminded me of "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" - wasn't it established at the end of series one that Jack's real name is not Captain Jack Harkness? So how come people who have known him all his life call him Jack? (If you're wondering why it reminds me of HHGTTG, Ford Prefect was supposed to have chosen his name for his visit to Earth, but then when he goes back into space and meets his cousin Zaphod, he's still known as Ford.) Are we to assume that his real name was Jack and that's why he chose to assume the identity of another Jack? My head hurts trying to figure it out...

What the frak? I never noticed that about Hitchhiker's Guide.....next time I read the book that's going to be stuck in my head!

ShadowMaat, I absolutely agree about Rhys's improvement, over the last few eps (well, since "Meat", really) he's grown on me and was great in the finale. I've come to buy the fact that he'll stick with Gwen; he doesn't look stupid for it anymore.

I'm just surprised about how much I cared about Owen in the end. After series one I never would have thought I could like him in the slightest minute amount. But after the episode where he talked the girl off the roof.....I started to. A little, and his death made me sad.

Hopefully the series will get the renewal, it'll be really interesting to see where the show goes from here! Such vast steady improvement over the past season! Colour me impressed.

[kiwigater]

Wow, there is definitely something to be said for watching a show without being even remotely spoiled! I had no idea what was happening, and I have to confess to assuming there'd be a soft reset at some point I keep forgetting the Torchwood is actually a more grown up show, and I like that not everything ends happily every time. Still, I was rather bawling my eyes out, first at

Spoiler:

Owen's refusal to go quietly into death for the second time, and then Tosh's "You're breaking my heart" was the perfect way to stop him. In a way it's very poetic for them to go together, but Owen didn't know about Tosh ....
Despite the fact I'm really hugely bummed they're both dead I would feel a quite cheated if they magically came back to life next season - er, I guess that means I'm hoping there IS a next season, and for a while there I wasn't. It was a strong finale, in many ways, enough to make me look forward to more!

[ShadowMaat]

Can we stop using spoiler tags yet or do we have to wait for the US broadcast?

Spoiler:

Owen and Tosh aren't exactly my fave characters- in fact, Owen is tied for #1 with Gwen on my Most Hated list, but the ending still made me all sniffly. Part of me kinda wants to see them come back, but I think that's mostly a "they're part of the team" reflex because mostly I'm impressed that TW managed to kill off two of its leads so cleanly and effectively (clean story-wise, anyway, Tosh's blood trail was a bit messy). The fact that the deaths are (hopefully) likely to stick just makes me love the show more.

Will they be adding new castmembers next season or is this some kind of streamlining thing and we're just gonna have the threesome next year?

[Reefgirl]

I'm guessing that it'll be ok to lift it after Exit Wounds is shown on USTV

Kiwigater, Madeleine W is that right?

EDIT: Isn't it about time Torchwood got it's own 'Section' or at least it's own Episode folders, like DW has?

[ShadowMaat]

Nope. Darren's been asked a few times and keeps shooting it down. Might not be a bad idea to start a new thread when the new season rolls around, though. Then the specifics on spoiler tags can be hammered out because technically they shouldn't be needed at all in this thread although I know folks usually used them for the first few days afterwards to allow the DVR peeps to catch up.

Alternately it might be possible to just set up individual ep discussion threads, if people would rather do it that way. I don't think there are any rules against it and while it might clutter up the folder a bit it'd make it a lot easier for people to figure out which ones were "safe" to read and which ones it'd be better to avoid. Plus if we make enough of a mess in here maybe we'd at least get a subfolder.

[Bray]

Noooooooooooooooo!

[Matt G]

Season 2 is over, what the hell can I say about it?

Jack: Well he's certainly had some interesting history, survived it though(including his predecessor killing his old team as some form of euhanasia) My guess on the Exit Wounds burial thing is that 1901 Torchwood dug him up, checked with their Jack who pre-LOTTL didn't want anything to do with a future self and told them to throw him in the morgue.

Owen: The Dead Man Walking thing...they somehow got away with, but I'd already heard rumours he was going to be written out completely and this was as good a way as any to do it. RIP.

Gwen: Surprised that she became effective XO of the team, had every right to go after those taken by the Rift(let's face it, Jack made a bad call in stonewalling her), but she proved out of her depth later on.

Tosh: Turned out to have an interesting history(who knew that UNIT could get that dodgy?) didn't deserve to go out in that ugly fashion though. RIP though I never really noticed her.

Ianto: Well we have the first canon slash I can remember, a solid though generally unspectacular season from him.

Overall, better than S1, though whether they'll get away with the S3 overhaul remains to be seen!

[BruTak]

Thought for the day: "Cooper and Harper (Deceased)".

Ghostly Owen: "Only you can see me Gwen, only you..."