Torchwood Episode Discussion (Spoilers for all eps aired in the UK)

[Flyboy]

Spoiler:

I was so prepared for something major to happen with them and was on the edge of my seat, thinking they were the Weevil Kings or what not... then Owen shot them...

[Willow'sCat]

Spoilers Massive Finale *Exit Wounds* Spoilers!... Don't Look Don't Want To Know! BEEN WARNED!!!!

Spoiler:

Well where to begin?

First I will say best episode of the series. Heartbreaking to say the least. This is what finales should be!

I am so glad Capt John turned out to be a hero, not just a raving maniac with a crush on Capt Jack, this turn of events make more sense then just having him be all bitter over losing Capt Jack. It was great to see Andy even if I missed most of his lines due to speed of dialogue and accent.

OK to the parts that had me in tears at 10am in the morning while I watched this.

Owen. *hugs Owen* I knew it was coming but I still couldn't help getting teary when it did come. I think it was the line from Tosh about breaking her heart that did it *sobs* and there was Tosh lying in a room Owen knew so well and she was bleeding to death.

They both played it so well, they should get an award.

The reasons for the deaths I can understand even if I am not happy about them. I understand no one gets out alive (Jack maybe) and that they probably will not get to their 40th birthdays but really I think killing them off in series two, should they get a series 3 is shortsighted.

AND they made me cry at 10am in the morning!!!

Ianto. There was definitely not enough Ianto in this! *sigh*

Jack, I think he showed he has changed from the superficial con man we met in Doctor Who to a man who knows his own faults and is willing to own his mistakes. I don't see how he is responsible for what happened to Grey but I can see how he would feel he is responsible.

Anyway as I still wipe tears from my eyes and wonder if we will get a series 3 I have to say this was the best finale I have watched since Doctor Who's last finale.

8.5/10

[Willow'sCat]

SPOILERS *Exit Wounds*

Plotholes and other things that made no sense to me.

Spoiler:

Cardiff 27AD. OK I'll bite. But even if Grey can jump around in space and time wouldn't he age? Wouldn't he be much older then Jack?

Also what was the point anyway? I was expecting Grey to have taken over Torchwood, to be running it not just pop in and release the Weevils. How lame. That was his plan? Bury Jack and release some Weevils while Cardiff possibly burns or gets nuked? Hardly the personal touch of a madman out for revenge on one person.

I am sure the whole buried alive thing and can't die thing was traumatic for Jack but so was being tortured by The Master, so was being exterminated by The Daleks... really this would be more like a walk in the park after all his has been through.

Well a badly lit park where you eat dirt every other minute and choked to death time and time again but still.

Angel being encased underwater was similar (well the same really) as he had been to a hell and survived so the impact was less felt by me... the guy had been through a lot and survived he can survive this.

Or am I weird. All I am saying is it seemed odd to have this as the big bad for Jack.

Other part that made no sense. Time lines? Jack crossed his own time line... so um... where is "our" Jack then? What happens? I wondered this at the end of Ep 1 when Jack said something like they would have to avoid themselves for 12 hours (then they promptly go to The HUB, nice way of avoiding).

And why didn't Jack leave a message with Torchwood to tell himself about Grey? Torchwood (past) said to Jack (buried) that he was out on a case at the same time they dug him up. I am so confused.

What about Jack's missing memories? Why didn't they bring that up or use it?

And what proof that it was Tosh in Aliens of London? Completely missed that part.

Spoilers ALL eps including the FINALE! Been warned!!

My thoughts on series two as a whole.

Spoiler:

I think it was a much better series then one. The characters felt and behaved less angry with the world and Jack. The humour they added worked in most cases to ease situations that last series they would have just laboured over with a heavy angst hand.

Nice to see some romantic moments, even better that they were mostly between Jack and Ianto.

Glad they seem to have dropped or are at least trying to drop the shipping of Gwen and Jack. It really wasn't until Something Borrowed that I felt like I was being slapped by the shipping so I am glad it was also in the same ep where I felt it ended as well.

Sadly just as the TEAM is working they go and kill off two characters. Mistake? Maybe if the rumours are true. Or it may lead to a better show, a shot in the arm.

If, IF they get a series 3 at all. I have my doubts.

If they don't this was a good way to end it, the three going on with Torchwood.

[jonno]

And wonder if we will get a series 3 I have to say this was the best finale I have watched since Doctor Who's last finale.

As a brit (and knowing the BBC), I think it's pretty unlikely it'll get cancelled. Historically, the beeb are much less fickle than american broadcasters in terms of keeping shows - so long as there's some viewers (which I believe there are) and the people involved in it want it, it'll stay a fair old while. The BBC is very committed to Dr. Who (and accordingly this universe), so they won't just pull the plug.

In America, a successful series is lucky to get to season 7 - good (and now iconic) BBC series last ages (and even after cancellation then reappear several years down the line) - as examples, Top Gear has had 10 series in its new format, + who knows how many in the old, spooks is already at 6 and due for more, soaps like casualty and Eastenders have lasted decades, a fairly lowly BBC3 comedy (2 pints...) lasted 7 years, etc - take Dr. Who - it had 20-odd old series plus now 4 new, and is guaranteed until 2010 (with those in high places talking of a '20 year plan').

I'm pretty sure torchwood will continue - filling in the gaps between Dr. Who series (especially next year with only the 3 Dr, Who specials scheduled). This I believe is a good thing, as after a fairly disappointing first series, Torchwood really has kicked into gear this year.

[Willow'sCat]

As a brit (and knowing the BBC), I think it's pretty unlikely it'll get cancelled. Historically, the beeb are much less fickle than american broadcasters in terms of keeping shows - so long as there's some viewers (which I believe there are) and the people involved in it want it, it'll stay a fair old while. The BBC is very committed to Dr. Who (and accordingly this universe), so they won't just pull the plug.

I'm pretty sure torchwood will continue - filling in the gaps between Dr. Who series (especially next year with only the 3 Dr, Who specials scheduled). This I believe is a good thing, as after a fairly disappointing first series, Torchwood really has kicked into gear this year.

Well I see what you mean (and it is the same here in Australia often with ABC shows, they have a season one year but nothing for two and just when you have forgotten the show even exsisted they show some more ) but still unless *spoilers* Torchwood/Doctor Who and specualation as well!!*

Spoiler:

there is a really good tie in with Doctor Who's finale and all those rumours about certain characters joining Torchwood *not happy* it just seems too long a wait.

Frankly by the time they film a series 3 it would be around July/August before they start and then they wouldn't be able to show it until mid 2009... which is way too long.

I guess what I am saying is I don't like change and I don't like to have to wait.

It could well be over a year and half before we see anymore.

[Sun'shyne]

Wow, what a brilliant ending to a perfect season!

Spoiler:

It takes a lot to get me to cry over anything.. but my goodness Tosh's video was heartbreaking! And the conversation her and Owen had!! GUH!!! What a great episode!

My concern is for next season though.. there can't only be 3 Torchwood Team members.. what's going to happen? PC Andy?? lol... I hope not Rhys! Capt. John can come back whenever he wants though, I wouldn't complain in the least!!!!

[Sun'shyne]

Well I see what you mean (and it is the same here in Australia often with ABC shows, they have a season one year but nothing for two and just when you have forgotten the show even exsisted they show some more ) but still unless *spoilers* Torchwood/Doctor Who and specualation as well!!*

Spoiler:

there is a really good tie in with Doctor Who's finale and all those rumours about certain characters joining Torchwood *not happy* it just seems too long a wait.

Frankly by the time they film a series 3 it would be around July/August before they start and then they wouldn't be able to show it until mid 2009... which is way too long.

I guess what I am saying is I don't like change and I don't like to have to wait.

It could well be over a year and half before we see anymore.

Me too ... and WHAT??? I can't wait that long! I'll go knuts!! lol

[Madeleine]

Wow.

It started big and kept up the pace just like a last-of-the-current-series should, but I liked some of the smaller bits best. Like this one imperfectly remembered, but you get the the gist -

"I know secrets you can't imagine"
"Like what?"
"Like a time agency based in Cardiff"
"It's not based in Cardiff"
"You say you keep secrets, I ask you what they are, and you tell me, brilliant."

I thought they hired the right actor for the guest part: there was a 'family' resemblance.

Most heartbreaking line ever: "You're breaking my heart"

[BruTak]

SPOILERS *Exit Wounds*

Spoiler:

And what proof that it was Tosh in Aliens of London? Completely missed that part.

*sighs patiently*

Am I the only person who actually pays attention to things?

Spoiler:

When Owen and Toshiko are discussing their early days together, Tosh descibes pretending to be a medic in Owen's second week, to cover for him having a hangover. Owen asks if this was "the space pig", referring to Naoko Mori's appearance as "Doctor Sato", a presumed pathologist in the Doctor Who story "Aliens of London".

[Willow'sCat]

*sighs patiently*

Am I the only person who actually pays attention to things?

Spoiler:

When Owen and Toshiko are discussing their early days together, Tosh descibes pretending to be a medic in Owen's second week, to cover for him having a hangover. Owen asks if this was "the space pig", referring to Naoko Mori's appearance as "Doctor Sato", a presumed pathologist in the Doctor Who story "Aliens of London".

I think I may have been

Spoiler:

crying at the time! Sorry but you know I can't listen and cry at the same time it isn't possible!

Oh OK so now we know

Spoiler:

and now it doesn't matter.

[Red Phoniex]

I liked it

Spoiler:

I cried, i'm not ashamed to admit it. Tosh's "You're breaking my heart" was the most moving thing i've seen on t.v. in ages and very well acted. Suprised there wasn't more Jack/Ianto in this ep. I actually LIKED Gwen in this ep, she was in her element. God Ryes and Andy were brilliant! More of them together would be great. I guessed most of what was going to happen throughout even before i read the spoilers. Glad we finally got the answer to tosh in dr who. Overall, i'm happy with the way the show went with characters leaving, it felt very natural and not forced. Their work is very dangerous and people die alot. Just glad it wasn't Ianto

[Klenotka]

OMG, I so cried I think I cried last time like that at finale of S2 of Dr.Who.

Spoiler:

I actually started to like Owen this season. He had so big potential, they can´t kill him! I still hope that he might survive somehow...
Poor Tosh, such a tragical character. She died as a real hero. And I didn´t mind Gwen either. This was for the first time I believed her the leading position. Rhys "working" with Torchwood was an interesting idea and his interaction with Andy was funny. But that was the only thing funny there. The rest was sad

I am depressed now...

[BruTak]

Is it, I wonder, standard practice for Torchwood to employ those of a more - shall we say hedonistic - nature?

Even back in Victorian times, they're all at it like rabbits with each other...

[Reefgirl]

Like the rest of you I cried buckets

Spoiler:

they did try to cram too much into 50 minutes it could have been a 2 parter IMO, a bit more about Gray being a prisoner and a bit more about Jack's attempts to find him would have been nice and a bit more about the effects of the explosions. Kudos and much respect to Naoko Mori and Burn Gorman who acted their socks off in the final Tosh/Owen scenes, real gut wrenching stuff. All in all the best thing I've seen for a while. Oh and Mr Mallozzi, if you're reading this, That is how you kill characters and keep your fan's respect, you don't blow them up with exploding tumors

[Naonak]

That was a great finale. It didn't let up from start to end.

The final Owen/Tosh scene was excellent. Very emotional. It was well written, and BG and NM were really good.

As Willow said, I don't see Jack as responsible for what happened to Gray, but it's easy to see how both of them would. The final scene between the two of them was very good too.
I'm hoping we'll find out who it was that took Gray, and that they'll be important again somehow.

Even Gwen and Rhys were great. They don't annoy me like a lot of people, I'm usually just not that bothered either way, but I really liked both of them in this one. Despite her own lack of belief and constant "Where's Jack?!", Gwen handled it all really well, and Rhys' scenes with PC Andy were very amusing.

Also, Captain John pulling his skin off was bloody gross... He was great again, hopefully he'll be back at some time in the future.

My only real problems were that it needed more Ianto, and that Jack seemed oddly unfazed by 1900 years dying again and again...

10/10

Oh and Mr Mallozzi, if you're reading this, That is how you kill characters and keep your fan's respect, you don't blow them up with exploding tumors

[off-topic, but I just can't resist... ]
Joe had nothing to do with that...

Season Two
Far better than the first season. The writers seemed to get a much better grip on the characters and the tone of the show. At times (particularly the first few episodes) last season it felt like their mindset was "We can have swearing, sex and violence, so let's have as much as possible! Woo!" This year they toned it down to a more realistic level, without compromising the darker nature of Torchwood compared to Doctor Who.

The characters were much better rounded, and more likeable. In season one, Jack was the only character I was really attached to, but I liked them all this year. Owen and Ianto both p***ed me off before, but those two became really good characters.

There was a great mix of episodes. 'Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang' was brilliantly fun, Owen's death arc was very dramatic and emotional, and the finale was [see above ].

Now I just hope the rest of those rumours on season three aren't true...

Spoiler:

I wouldn't mind

Spoiler:

Martha

joining if it was done well, but

Spoiler:

reducing Jack to recurring

and making it more family friendly is ridiculous...