I Believe The Children Are Our Future (506)

[iheartshep]

Hmmm.....interesting discussion here.

And....like I said earlier......the whoopee cushion thing worked for me because of Castiel!! He's soooo....pious I guess is a good word.......yet funny at the same time.

How did I forget about the ham? Especially Sam's "Dude.....still with the ham?" line. *giggles*

I thought I saw them advertising a new episode on October 29, so maybe we only have one week with nothing. *crosses fingers*

IHS

[Jeffer]

great ep i really hope the kid will be back would be a shame to leave such a good story line out. Given how well Kripke is with delivering exactly what the fans want i am sure we will.

[starg8fans]

Boy, you need patience to post here again today! Good thing we're snowed in (I'm not kidding, and I have pictures to prove it!) so there's not a lot of other stuff to do...

The joy buzzer again. While I liked the humour involved there (Dude! WHAT the Hell?!), I can not believe Dean would risk Sam's life on a hunch. Not cool.

Actually, to me this part was sort of proof that things were going back to normal between the two of them. There've been a few instances where something like this happened before. As in Route 666 when Sam told Dean to stop the car while the truck was barreling towards him, on the hunch that the place where the church used to be would be protection enough. And they've had experience with beliefs that come true and can be changed, as in Hell House. So I'm quite sure Dean was certain that there was no danger to Sam, and just played along to mess with his baby brother. Who knows, this may have been a different 'buzzer' altogether he picked up at the store.

Going to Cas for help. Still loving how Misha is no longer billed as a 'guest star', but they haven't let him horn in on the Sam and Dean Show.

I agree, they handle the whole relationship between the three beautifully.

I know they only have 42 minutes to work with, but the kid accepting all this being thrown at him at once was just...well too convenient. And too rushed which is why I think the balance between funny and serious in this episode missed the mark. Too much was time was spent on the funny and not enough on the serious for the nature of the episode. There should have been a bit more build up to the kid making the decision to leave his parents rather than everything going down in like an hour.

Well, the casting call was for a kid that was 'mature beyond his years', and I think the little guy really pulled that off. I can't imagine demons actually being 'children', so his psyche must be quite developed already. The way he was weighing is options and analyzing the next steps sounded more like an adult, so I can accept that he was able to reach a decision so quickly.

The babysitter comment was interesting. Dean seemed like he was truly thinking of a past babysitter, not just making it up for the kid. He must have a really good memory and is thinking of a sitter from before the fire, because I can't imagine John EVER allowing a sitter to watch them afterwards!

I think it could have been afterwards. I wouldn't say she was a paid babysitter but probably somebody John knew and trusted...like say he did Pastor Jim.

I agree, I couldn't really see Dean as having experiences with babysitters, but my first thought was that he modeled this person after somebody he actually knew, like a very strict teacher he had as a kid.

It will be interesting if Kripke uses other Revelations lore because…

Spoiler:

The antichrist teams up with Lucifer and one other powerful beast to form the unholy trinity. Now that would be one hell of a battle. I wonder who the other one will be?

Interersting indeed. Well, we're not even a third into the season, so I'm sure there will be more candidates for this post. Maybe

Spoiler:

Death from the Riders of the Apocalypse?

In this ep it was back to Dean the comedian and Sam the straight guy…with some great one liners in there.

I must admit I giggled at every bit of humor, regardless how crude it might have been. I was curious what Cas' reaction to the whoopy cushion would be, and Misha really delivered. And Sam's reaction at the sight of Dean's hairy palm was too funny - even though I still have my problems with the way characters overreact to anything remotely sexual in American TV shows. I mean, Sam's a grown man and certainly has been around the block himself, why would just the idea of a man satisfying his needs horrify him to that extent?

[Madwelshboy]

I must admit I giggled at every bit of humor, regardless how crude it might have been.

Me to!

And Sam's reaction at the sight of Dean's hairy palm was too funny - even though I still have my problems with the way characters overreact to anything remotely sexual in American TV shows. I mean, Sam's a grown man and certainly has been around the block himself, why would just the idea of a man satisfying his needs horrify him to that extent?

I part of me was expecting a line from Dean along the lines of "What!? its not like you dont do it"

[LizzieAnne]

Boy, you need patience to post here again today! Good thing we're snowed in (I'm not kidding, and I have pictures to prove it!) so there's not a lot of other stuff to do...


I must admit I giggled at every bit of humor, regardless how crude it might have been. I was curious what Cas' reaction to the whoopy cushion would be, and Misha really delivered. And Sam's reaction at the sight of Dean's hairy palm was too funny - even though I still have my problems with the way characters overreact to anything remotely sexual in American TV shows. I mean, Sam's a grown man and certainly has been around the block himself, why would just the idea of a man satisfying his needs horrify him to that extent?

The writer's seem to like getting some mileage out of that stuff though...just like they did with Dean's reaction to Sam when he was telling him about his relationship with Ruby. Perhaps they're both puritans at heart

Me to!

I part of me was expecting a line from Dean along the lines of "What!? its not like you dont do it"

You're right....I'm surprised they didn't go with that.

[LoneStar1836]

Let's see if it'll post this time....

How did I forget about the ham? Especially Sam's "Dude.....still with the ham?" line. *giggles*

That was probably my favorite line in the ep. Course when Dean shocked the ham earlier he referenced the movie Babe with "That'll do pig". lol!

Actually, to me this part was sort of proof that things were going back to normal between the two of them. There've been a few instances where something like this happened before. As in Route 666 when Sam told Dean to stop the car while the truck was barreling towards him, on the hunch that the place where the church used to be would be protection enough. And they've had experience with beliefs that come true and can be changed, as in Hell House. So I'm quite sure Dean was certain that there was no danger to Sam, and just played along to mess with his baby brother. Who knows, this may have been a different 'buzzer' altogether he picked up at the store.

Agreed. It calls back to things they've done in past episodes. I'm sure Dean was 99% sure it wouldn't do anything, but I still think it was kinda...I don't want to say mean...but reckless. As they were talking in that scene, I knew Dean was about to hit Sam with it.

Though it wouldn't have mattered if it were a different buzzer because its danger was linked to what Jesse believed about it.

Well, the casting call was for a kid that was 'mature beyond his years', and I think the little guy really pulled that off. I can't imagine demons actually being 'children', so his psyche must be quite developed already. The way he was weighing is options and analyzing the next steps sounded more like an adult, so I can accept that he was able to reach a decision so quickly.

I could accept the fact that he was mature for his age...as evident by the fact he was having to be self sufficient and like cook for himself, etc. But that was an awful lot of stuff being tossed at him...and weird stuff at that...as well as him discovering he has these powers to do anything. It was a heck of a lot of info he was having to absorb and process in such a short amount of time, and on top of that make the quick choice to just leave his parents and his home and have to totally take care of himself. I just found that part to be a bit of a stretch. Him being the antichrist I have no problem with but that.... I mean it was no biggie, but that's why I though more of the episode should have focused on Jesse rather than say all the time they spent initially checking out the case and goofing around. Some of the time spent in the episode on that could have been implied and had more focus on the kid (have that unfold over a day or two to give the kid some time to absorb it), instead of cramming it all at the end of the episode.

I must admit I giggled at every bit of humor, regardless how crude it might have been. I was curious what Cas' reaction to the whoopy cushion would be, and Misha really delivered. And Sam's reaction at the sight of Dean's hairy palm was too funny - even though I still have my problems with the way characters overreact to anything remotely sexual in American TV shows. I mean, Sam's a grown man and certainly has been around the block himself, why would just the idea of a man satisfying his needs horrify him to that extent?

Eh, it's Sam. He's never been exactly openly at ease with all of that. Just think back to, I think S2, when Dean walked in on him watching the porn channel on tv, and he immediately flipped it off. Dean on the other hand could care less...with all his mags, the websites, tv, the comments, etc. He openly flaunts it, while Sam's more reserved. Don't think Sam was horrified (as in "Dean does that?") but more like "dude we are working, control yourself...oh and don't use my razor!!" which Dean probably did anyway....

[Jitter]

I loved the episode, but then again I can't say a bad word about this show at all. Dean's hairy palm was extremely funny as was the cushion but what I loved above all was the Castiel action figure XD

[flameling]

I like that it is only the sixth episode and we've seen the anti christ. I thought that we'd be seeing more horseman but I think it's just as well with the anti christ. And I was watching Death takes a holiday and picked up on something Alistair said:

Spoiler:

That he got the blade used in killing reapers from a friend who doesn't ride a pale horse but has three amigos. When we see Death will we get a refrence to Alistair?

Not completely relevant to this episode but it may be in later ins. Well, that's my two cents.

[LoneStar1836]

I like that it is only the sixth episode and we've seen the anti christ. I thought that we'd be seeing more horseman but I think it's just as well with the anti christ. And I was watching Death takes a holiday and picked up on something Alistair said:

Spoiler:

That he got the blade used in killing reapers from a friend who doesn't ride a pale horse but has three amigos. When we see Death will we get a refrence to Alistair?

Not completely relevant to this episode but it may be in later ins. Well, that's my two cents.

That would be nice continuity if they did.

I think we will see more Horsemen. We've seen War. And I think we've seen Pestilence...I think it's the one that is behind the Croatoan virus...just haven't seen him in the flesh. So we have yet to see Famine and Death but we aren't even half way through the season.

[Crichiel]

And I was watching Death takes a holiday and picked up on something Alistair said:

Spoiler:

That he got the blade used in killing reapers from a friend who doesn't ride a pale horse but has three amigos. When we see Death will we get a refrence to Alistair?

Not completely relevant to this episode but it may be in later ins. Well, that's my two cents.

I had forgotten about that comment. I don't imagine the conversation with Alistair would really NEED to be brought up when/if the other horsemen show up, but that would be some more amazing attention to detail and continuity.

If this were ANY other show, I would be 99.9% sure that it WOULDN'T be brought up, but I have yet to see a show as detail-oriented as Supernatural. Kripke has shown that he can wait years to explain one seemingly innocent remark made by a character.

[starg8fans]

The writer's seem to like getting some mileage out of that stuff though...just like they did with Dean's reaction to Sam when he was telling him about his relationship with Ruby. Perhaps they're both puritans at heart

Now that would be a character twist I hadn't expected, especially for Dean.

Let's see if it'll post this time....

I know, GW was driving me insane yesterday, and I've just waited over an hour to post this.

That was probably my favorite line in the ep. Course when Dean shocked the ham earlier he referenced the movie Babe with "That'll do pig". lol!

I totally forgot about that - that was so funny! I can just see Dean watching that movie, and getting all chick flicky in the end.

Agreed. It calls back to things they've done in past episodes. I'm sure Dean was 99% sure it wouldn't do anything, but I still think it was kinda...I don't want to say mean...but reckless. As they were talking in that scene, I knew Dean was about to hit Sam with it.

It came across as such. But then - Dean knows there are two higher powers who want them both alive, and who can resurrect them if need be. Although I still think he wouldn't hurt Sam on purpose, maybe that does make him a bit more reckless.

Eh, it's Sam. He's never been exactly openly at ease with all of that. Just think back to, I think S2, when Dean walked in on him watching the porn channel on tv, and he immediately flipped it off. Dean on the other hand could care less...with all his mags, the websites, tv, the comments, etc. He openly flaunts it, while Sam's more reserved. Don't think Sam was horrified (as in "Dean does that?") but more like "dude we are working, control yourself...oh and don't use my razor!!" which Dean probably did anyway....

Yup, Sam's definitely a puritan. I also remember that he wanted to gouge his eyes out after catching Dean in a compromising position in early S3. I forgot the ep, but it was this scene.

Spoiler:

And he was extremely uncomfortable as Becky was getting too close... Although he stayed extremely polite during the whole encounter.

I like that it is only the sixth episode and we've seen the anti christ. I thought that we'd be seeing more horseman but I think it's just as well with the anti christ. And I was watching Death takes a holiday and picked up on something Alistair said:

Spoiler:

That he got the blade used in killing reapers from a friend who doesn't ride a pale horse but has three amigos. When we see Death will we get a refrence to Alistair?

Not completely relevant to this episode but it may be in later ins. Well, that's my two cents.

Great catch there, I had completely forgotten about that comment!

That would be nice continuity if they did.

I think we will see more Horsemen. We've seen War. And I think we've seen Pestilence...I think it's the one that is behind the Croatoan virus...just haven't seen him in the flesh. So we have yet to see Famine and Death but we aren't even half way through the season.

Maybe we'll see Death in the next episode.

Spoiler:

That guy is playing for years of his victims' lives, which makes them die sooner.

I had forgotten about that comment. I don't imagine the conversation with Alistair would really NEED to be brought up when/if the other horsemen show up, but that would be some more amazing attention to detail and continuity.

If this were ANY other show, I would be 99.9% sure that it WOULDN'T be brought up, but I have yet to see a show as detail-oriented as Supernatural. Kripke has shown that he can wait years to explain one seemingly innocent remark made by a character.

It's one thing that fascinates me about the show. Remember when Mary said "I'm sorry" in S1's Home, and that only got explained in S4's In the Beginning?

[marielabbott]

-The joy buzzer. Loved the way they tested it. And Dean just digging in, haven't seen him chowing down in a while. And the later comment "Dude, seriously? Still with the ham?" It is such a little throw-away line when Dean responds, "We don't have a fridge!", but it stuck out to me because it's one of those things that you don't think about with them spending their lives living in motels. Few of them DO have a fridge. Such a simple convenience that they often have to do without.

It was very funny the way they tested it. CSI shows are always experimenting on pigs because they're apparently quite comparable to human beings. And the Babe line was hilarious.

Going to Cas for help. Still loving how Misha is no longer billed as a 'guest star', but they haven't let him horn in on the Sam and Dean Show.

I was worried about this, that it would become more of a Cas and Dean show, but thankfully my fears have not been realized. I think they're doing a good job of balancing Cas in with the Sam/Dean relationship. Yay show.

All right so, wow. Was he harsh on Sam! I forgot I was going to grab my Bible and look up Revelations before I came to work and wrote this. I can't remember exactly if it DOES say that the anti-Christ is Lucifer's son. I didn't think so, but it has been almost a year since I read it (Yes, I read it. I read the whole Bible cover to cover over a couple years and just finished it last Feb.), so I could be mistaken. Castiel is SORT of right when he says the Bible gets more wrong than right. A lot of people READ it wrong. When you read all the footnotes in the Bible, you see that the average person (myself included), takes way too much of what is said literally, not understanding what was just meant to be symbolism. This is especially true of Revelations. Sorry, I'm done with the Sunday school lesson. Anyway, I like Castiel's explanation of the Anti-Christ. And I like that our Sammy is back and unwilling to kill children because he will no longer do "whatever it takes".

Was Sam ever willing to do "whatever it took" to win the war? I'm not certain about the accuracy of that statement. Last year at this time Sam was pleading with Castiel and mud-monkey angel to spare that town...maybe Cas was referring to Sam being willing to kill Lilith in her child's form?

About the line concerning the Bible, I do wish they'd simply left that out. The audience gets by now that this isn't the Bible's version of the end-times. So I didn’t think that line was necessary.

The actress that played Jesse's mom was great. I am so impressed with the guest actors this year. (btw, what do I know her from? She looks SO familiar).

The actress is Ever Carradine. Do you watch Eureka? She did a stint there recently as Lexi Carter, Jack's sister, and according to IMDB she's also been on 24.

Now I kind of have issues with Cas here…when he was in Sam’s face about the choices he made. I seem to recall that it was partly because of Cas’ choice of not giving up the information he had …about Lilith being the final seal…. that led to Sam doing what he did. So he’s not totally blameless in the mess.

Good point. Castiel being so accusatory towards Sam felt wrong at that point to me.

Count me as one who didn't find the more crude humor funny.

What made the episode for me was Sam telling Jesse the truth, in that empathetic, sincere way he has. I haven't seen that in a long time, and that's one of the things I love best about Sam.

[starg8fans]

Was Sam ever willing to do "whatever it took" to win the war? I'm not certain about the accuracy of that statement. Last year at this time Sam was pleading with Castiel and mud-monkey angel to spare that town...maybe Cas was referring to Sam being willing to kill Lilith in her child's form?

I'd say bleeding the nurse dry to give him enough demon blood to kill Lilith qualifies in this respect. I realize that Ruby was goading him into doing it, but he did go along with it after all.

The actress is Ever Carradine. Do you watch Eureka? She did a stint there recently as Lexi Carter, Jack's sister, and according to IMDB she's also been on 24.

Thanks for this, she looked familiar to me too. Must have seen her on '24', although I can't remember what part she played or what season.

[Crichiel]

I'd say bleeding the nurse dry to give him enough demon blood to kill Lilith qualifies in this respect. I realize that Ruby was goading him into doing it, but he did go along with it after all.

This is what I assumed he was referring to. That and drinking the blood in general even though he knew it was wrong.

The actress is Ever Carradine. Do you watch Eureka? She did a stint there recently as Lexi Carter, Jack's sister, and according to IMDB she's also been on 24.

Thank you for giving me the name so I could look up IMDB, too. Still didn't help me, though. I haven't seen Eureka since the second season and never watched 24 religiously (though I COULD have seen her while I was watching sporadically). All I can figure from her list of credits is that I saw her ep of House, 3rd Rock, or if she was on Party of Five during one of the first 3 seasons.

[LizzieAnne]

Was Sam ever willing to do "whatever it took" to win the war? I'm not certain about the accuracy of that statement. Last year at this time Sam was pleading with Castiel and mud-monkey angel to spare that town...maybe Cas was referring to Sam being willing to kill Lilith in her child's form?

I'd say bleeding the nurse dry to give him enough demon blood to kill Lilith qualifies in this respect. I realize that Ruby was goading him into doing it, but he did go along with it after all.

Was Sam guilty of doing whatever it takes? Maybe he was just following his normal Winchester instincts because that’s how they’ve both lived their lives.
Dean more than Sam at first, as we saw in the first ep…. but they do whatever it takes to survive…scams to fund their live style, lies to keep them out of jail...but they’ve always looked to each other for their moral guidance though when difficult decisions have to be made… and off the top of my head these examples spring to mind:

In Croatoan, Sam urged Dean not to shoot the possibly infected guy and Dean only stopped at the last minute because of Sam’s pleas.

In Heart when they both knew that Maddison had to die… Dean offered to do it but Sam did the deed…but they were both in agreement.

Dean also took it on himself to kill the vampire girl even though she thought she was still human….with no disagreement from Sam.

So when Sam was in the car and was being urged on by Ruby to bleed the woman, he shut her up and played Dean’s phone message. …desperately wanting some guidance. We know that he got the corrupted message which pushed him over the edge. Also when he was about to kill Lilith he paused when he heard Dean…still unsure. Taking all this uncertainty into account I’m sure that if Dean had been able to tell him that Lilith was the final seal, and with his brother's more conciliatory attitude, he would have believed him and not done it….but that we’ll never know. I can only go on all the previous evidence and their usual behaviour to each other.

The actress is Ever Carradine. Do you watch Eureka? She did a stint there recently as Lexi Carter, Jack's sister, and according to IMDB she's also been on 24.

I knew she looked familiar... Sheriff Carter's sister...
I don't remember her in 24 but I'm on a re-watch...that's another one to look out for ..and Misha, apparently.

Good point. Castiel being so accusatory towards Sam felt wrong at that point to me.

I'm hoping for Cas remorse at some point along the way...with an apology to Sam

What made the episode for me was Sam telling Jesse the truth, in that empathetic, sincere way he has. I haven't seen that in a long time, and that's one of the things I love best about Sam.

I loved that as well.