Deep Space 9 Superior

[McAvoy]

Which episode was that? I don't remember hearing that said before. It's not really the Borg mentality to benignly leave alone species they can't assimilate. Species 8472, for example, also can't be assimilated, so the Borg attempt to wipe them out. They don't like leaving around technologically advanced races who may resist them.

There is no such episode where that is stated.

[The Urban Spaceman]

There is no such episode where that is stated.

That's what I thought too. I don't recall the Borg ever being mentioned on DS9 in relation to the Dominion. I suspect that the Borg don't even know about the existence of the Dominion yet. If I was a Starfleet Admiral during the early times of the Dominion war, I might even have loaded up a warp-capable starship with lots of useful information about the Dominion, and sent it off towards Borg-space, possibly transmitting some Borg homing-frequency. Of course, it would have taken a long time to get there, but it could have been revenge, had the war gone the other way.

[DigiFluid]

What were the Borg doing after sending a single cube? Zip. They had transwarp hubs. They ostensibly could've sent an armada of Borg vessels into the Alpha Quadrant but they never did.

That's one of the funniest/most-*facepalm*-inducing of the voyager flubs, IMO. They've got a transwarp hub, with literally dozens, if not hundreds or even thousands of ships flitting about; one of its tunnel termini is literally within visual distance of Earth and....they were never able to assimilate us? Sigh.

[Saquist]

Potential potential potential... doesn't count if nothing actually happens, does it? It's like so many athletes who had so much potential to do great things and then waste it away by partying, drinking, drugs, whatever, and they never actually fulfill that potential and so nothing happens.

That seems to be the recurring theme with Voyager. With you I agree that there were lots of writing issues. Lots of potential, especially with the Year of Hell concept. It could've taken Voyager to new heights in storytelling but it got erased with a reset button. *shrugs* That's what the execs at paramount wanted and that's what they got. Voyager could've been as intense as the Xindi arc in Enterprise. But at least with Enterprise they actually did fulfill some of that potential, albeit too late in the series. The Unimatrix Zero resistance storyline could've been interesting if the producers actually did something with it... but well, they didn't.

As for the Borg, they could've done many, many things... but they didn't. We can thank the writers for that.

It wasn't the reset button that killed that episode, it was the writing itself. A lot of great episodes of Trek happened on a reset. Heck...Voyager's Kes time travel episode was one of kind and end up being a reset.

[McAvoy]

It wasn't the reset button that killed that episode, it was the writing itself. A lot of great episodes of Trek happened on a reset. Heck...Voyager's Kes time travel episode was one of kind and end up being a reset.

That is one my most favorite episodes of Voyager.

The problem is that Voyager screwed up the Borg. If we left the Borg at First Contact, we could assume the Borg have a small enough interest in Earth but not enough to invade which is why they send a single Cube both times. Voyager makes out the humans to be irritating to the Borg.

Anyway, the difference between the Borg incursions and the Dominion War, is the difference between a WAR and two SKIRMISHES. Apples and oranges.

If the Dominion was limited to the destruction of the Odyssey and perhaps the Defiant's first engagement with the Dominion then it would be comparable. Now which one is more destructive?

If the Borg sent a fleet comparable to the Dominion, would you still think the Dominion War would be more destructive? it is as simple as that. Individually, Borg ships are vastly superior to any Dominion ship. Takes whole fleets to stop a single Cube (unless you are Voyager). Dominion ships are comparable to Federation ships.

[Coremae]

We know the prophets can travel through time, and we also know that Sisko is a half prophet, therefore we could assume that he traveled through time mucking up enemies of the federation whenever he could have and that is why the dominion sucked and the borg sucked. Sure his people may have allowed it, if he convinced them that unless he went back to muck up the federations enemies, the Par Wraith would have not only escaped, but they would have taken over the universe; or something equally as scary as that.

[McAvoy]

We know the prophets can travel through time, and we also know that Sisko is a half prophet, therefore we could assume that he traveled through time mucking up enemies of the federation whenever he could have and that is why the dominion sucked and the borg sucked. Sure his people may have allowed it, if he convinced them that unless he went back to muck up the federations enemies, the Par Wraith would have not only escaped, but they would have taken over the universe; or something equally as scary as that.

Doubtful.

[DigiFluid]

That's a generous response.

[Coremae]

Doubtful.

I'd like to give the TPTB a chance, even if it's a shot in the dark at a target that's far out of sight

That's a generous response.

The classics always deserves our best, and for us to have a measure of faith in the creators may take for us to suspend the power of disbelief, and to aid them when we can; even if it's explaining a bit of the lore when the obvious truth may be because of time constraints or lack of budget.

I'm still trying to come up with one about the Original series making it to the end of the galaxy.

[McAvoy]

I'd like to give the TPTB a chance, even if it's a shot in the dark at a target that's far out of sight



The classics always deserves our best, and for us to have a measure of faith in the creators may take for us to suspend the power of disbelief, and to aid them when we can; even if it's explaining a bit of the lore when the obvious truth may be because of time constraints or lack of budget.

I'm still trying to come up with one about the Original series making it to the end of the galaxy.

I understand trying to make IU reason for some of the writer/producer screwups. But having Sisko play god? Doubtful.

[DigiFluid]

My post was to McAvoy.

[McAvoy]

My post was to McAvoy.

What do you mean? You mean the length? Was I being rude in some way?

[Coremae]

I understand trying to make IU reason for some of the writer/producer screwups. But having Sisko play god? Doubtful.

Not really play god, but play a better devil. Lemme explain; it's always suggested that the devil proves to be nothing more than that whisper in the ear of those he could reach, at the right time. Or perhaps he's murphy's law personified, and by extension, our friend Sisko could be that whisper in the dark that may not lead you to the exit, but, becomes a welcome relief to the silence of random pointless events.

let's say, as a child of a prophet, Sisko can do nothing more than become a third suggestion when there are only two, or a fifth logical route in a neural pathway when there should be only one, and by this measure, he can alter events. Something so simple that could lead to events so vast.

the creator of Family Guy and American Dad alarm clock malfunctioned, thus he missed the fated flight that struck one of the towers. Imagine if Sisko were that person who gave him an option to fall asleep (because he was tired) as opposed to him being dutiful and making sure the clock was wound up, programmed or had new batteries. Or perhaps being a suggestion in Osama's father's mind who at the moment of conception sought to do as Onan did in the scriptures and waste his seed on the earth, as opposed to sullying the world with a monster, (Onan wouldn't have, but Bin Laden sure as hell did, so I wish he did as Onan did, even if, Onan did so for selfish reasons; coveting his brother's property and possession and not wanting to give his brother's wife a baby who would ultimately carry his dead brother's title and wealth)

What if he became a stray spark in one of Columbia's computers which caused it to crash, which made it impossible for the Columbia to bring it back to earth, which made them rely on the Russians to send up a capsule and bring our Astronauts home safely.

Nothing major, just, simple, almost unassuming, but, completely relevant to historical events.

[McAvoy]

Not really play god, but play a better devil. Lemme explain; it's always suggested that the devil proves to be nothing more than that whisper in the ear of those he could reach, at the right time. Or perhaps he's murphy's law personified, and by extension, our friend Sisko could be that whisper in the dark that may not lead you to the exit, but, becomes a welcome relief to the silence of random pointless events.

let's say, as a child of a prophet, Sisko can do nothing more than become a third suggestion when there are only two, or a fifth logical route in a neural pathway when there should be only one, and by this measure, he can alter events. Something so simple that could lead to events so vast.

the creator of Family Guy and American Dad alarm clock malfunctioned, thus he missed the fated flight that struck one of the towers. Imagine if Sisko were that person who gave him an option to fall asleep (because he was tired) as opposed to him being dutiful and making sure the clock was wound up, programmed or had new batteries. Or perhaps being a suggestion in Osama's father's mind who at the moment of conception sought to do as Onan did in the scriptures and waste his seed on the earth, as opposed to sullying the world with a monster, (Onan wouldn't have, but Bin Laden sure as hell did, so I wish he did as Onan did, even if, Onan did so for selfish reasons; coveting his brother's property and possession and not wanting to give his brother's wife a baby who would ultimately carry his dead brother's title and wealth)

What if he became a stray spark in one of Columbia's computers which caused it to crash, which made it impossible for the Columbia to bring it back to earth, which made them rely on the Russians to send up a capsule and bring our Astronauts home safely.

Nothing major, just, simple, almost unassuming, but, completely relevant to historical events.

That is playing god. Using his supernatural powers (that he may not have or can use due to rules the Prophets may have) to alter situations especially if he knows how it will turn out in the future.

The biggest problem however, is the Prophets have very little interest outside the wormhole besides Bajor. I do think the Prophets assuming Sisko has some sort of power, wouldn't let him affect anything outside the wormhole.

[Coremae]

That is playing god. Using his supernatural powers (that he may not have or can use due to rules the Prophets may have) to alter situations especially if he knows how it will turn out in the future.

The biggest problem however, is the Prophets have very little interest outside the wormhole besides Bajor. I do think the Prophets assuming Sisko has some sort of power, wouldn't let him affect anything outside the wormhole.

I think they would, they conceived Sisko knowing that he would deal with the Par wraith, now, if the federation is defeated by the Dominion or the Borg, then there could be no Sisko to defeat the Par Wraith. When it was clear to them the Dominion was about to wipe out DS9 and Sisko, the Prophets deleted an entire fleet. When their interest are on the line, they'd do whatever it takes.