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    Originally posted by Jeff O'Connor View Post
    2x05"Cardassians""Cardassians" is an exemplary effort, and it's one of the best, if not the best, world-building episode yet. It proves what DS9's most compelling assets are, at least in these first few seasons: complex political and allegorical tales woven together by the cloth of intrigue.
    Well stated. To me this is the type of grey area episode that DS9 does best - it doesn't shy away from problems such as... racial hatred, making generalities, prejudices by a devastated people...etc... which we all see in Cardassians. This episode also put a face on the Cardassian people that we hadn't seen up until that point. It also showed us that the Cardassian people are not just cookie-cutter villains, they are in fact, one of the deepest and most well-conceived races from any scifi show ever.

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      Originally posted by Starbase View Post
      Well stated. To me this is the type of grey area episode that DS9 does best - it doesn't shy away from problems such as... racial hatred, making generalities, prejudices by a devastated people...etc... which we all see in Cardassians. This episode also put a face on the Cardassian people that we hadn't seen up until that point. It also showed us that the Cardassian people are not just cookie-cutter villains, they are in fact, one of the deepest and most well-conceived races from any scifi show ever.
      I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. I think Duet put a face on the Cardassians of not being generic villians
      Originally posted by aretood2
      Jelgate is right

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        Originally posted by jelgate View Post
        I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. I think Duet put a face on the Cardassians of not being generic villians
        I have to agree. Duet laid a wonderful foundation for a heavy Cardassian influence on the series itself. Which was brilliantly reinforced with the great episode Cardassians
        the Fifth Race

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          Originally posted by Starbase View Post
          Well stated. To me this is the type of grey area episode that DS9 does best - it doesn't shy away from problems such as... racial hatred, making generalities, prejudices by a devastated people...etc... which we all see in Cardassians. This episode also put a face on the Cardassian people that we hadn't seen up until that point. It also showed us that the Cardassian people are not just cookie-cutter villains, they are in fact, one of the deepest and most well-conceived races from any scifi show ever.
          Well said brother Base. The Cardassians, and in particular Dukat, did turn out to be very "complex" and entertaining throughout the entire series.

          One thing I realize the more times I re-watch the episode Cardassians - is just how complex the story-line is. The foray in to such "grey area" issues (like you mentioned) are wonderfully inter-mingled into this storyline without preaching or judging. The DS9 writers were on top of there game for this great episode! As always, I enjoyed the pairing of Bashir and Garak.
          the Fifth Race

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            This is my favorite part about Cardassians

            BASHIR: And isn't Gul Dukat one of the key witnesses in that inquiry?
            DUKAT: This is irrelevant and insulting. Commander, you've lost control here.
            SISKO: Yes, it seems that I have.
            Originally posted by aretood2
            Jelgate is right

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              Statistical Probabilities

              This episode shows that these people do deserve the opportunity to contribute to society in a meaningful way. Specifically, these four begin analyzing the Dominion War, and with data supplied to them by Bashir they calculate and predict theoretical outcomes to battles and proposed compromises and agreements. They're fast and smart, and within days they come up with projections that would've taken Starfleet Intelligence months to calculate. The thing is - that they eventually come to the conclusion that the Federation can not win the war against the Dominion. Bashir's reaction is to tell Sisko that Starfleet must immediately surrender or risk a lot of casualties. Sisko is appalled. First, there's the problem that Bashir's analyses are based upon assumptions and probabilities, second is the fact that even if Bashir could predict the future with 100 percent accuracy, he couldn't ask an entire generation of people to simply give up their freedom to the Dominion.

              I loved the scene between Bashir and O'Brien, who gets to the heart of the matter when O'Brien refuses to take Bashir's statistical analysis as given. Bashir can't see how anyone would be willing to overlook such "conclusive" evidence of the Federation's imminent demise. "The way I see it," responds O'Brien, not happily, "there are two possibilities. Either I'm more feeble-minded than you ever imagined, or you're not a smart as you think you are." wtgo Miles!

              Bashir has allowed himself to get caught up in his own megalomania. It's a very interesting situation for him to be in, because people aren't likely to listen to the dire predictions made by a bunch of "mutants." The danger here is that megalomania is not good for one's judgment, and Bashir's judgment is very clouded. He should know that statistics are not the end-all/tell-all of the universe, but he badly wants to believe he's making the best decision and using his friends' gifts in a meaningful way.
              the Fifth Race

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                Resurrection

                While this episode started on an unfortunate note (Dax telling Kira she cares too much about appearances when Kira refused to date aliens who didn't look humanoid enough for her taste) I think Kira grew a lot. I have always suspected that the biggest obstacle to Kira reciprocating Odo's feelings for her is her xenophobia. Disliking men with transparent skulls or three eyes is fairly superficial, but her past behavior indicates a deep suspicion of people who aren't enough like herself. As Quark pointed out, she's always seemed to go for controlled, controlling Bajoran men - Philip Anglim did a terrific job playing up the differences between the thief Bareil Antos and the dead Vedek, emphasizing the alternate universe character's self-mockery and uncertainty about his role. The Vedek always seemed much stiffer, in control even when he was claiming not to know his path. Anglim's dual portrayal of Bareil is probably the finest performance of a character
                and double on Trek next to Nana Visitor's own characterization of Kira and the Intendant

                Visitor did a terrific job demonstrating the differences between the two Kiras when we got to see them both acting as Starfleet officers, wearing the same costume. The Intendant swaggers, she simpers, she can fight but she doesn't know when to act tough. Kira's much more attractive despite being less stereotypically sexy, and she glowed throughout this episode, even when she realized she was going to lose another Bareil. It was easy to understand why this Bareil would be attracted to her goodness and the life she represents.

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                  Statistical Probabilities

                  "Statistical Probabilities" is gripping and complex despite some serious flaws. Foremost among those was the characterization of the genetically enhanced women, who were both completely reduced to their sexuality: neither of them made intellectual contributions on the level of idiot savant Patrick, and one's purpose in life was seduction while the other's was to adore a violent, egocentric man. I guess their DNA re-sequencing primarily affected their bra size and capacity for sexual fulfillment.

                  I also felt very hit over the head by the "genetic enhancement is bad" messages. OK, we got that point last season in Dr. Bashir, I Presume, and on Classic Trek in Space Seed and The Wrath of Khan; we did not need Worf's little speech, especially not in an episode about a group of people damaged by the side effects of the enhancements. That heavy-handedness almost wrecked this episode before it got off the ground, which would have been a real pity because once we saw them in action, the characters were both surprising and engrossing.

                  I loved the mutants paying attention to things Starfleet officers should, but don't think to: what words mean in their original languages before they get pureed in the Universal Translator, how what an enemy doesn't say or even look at can be as important as what they do. I also liked the fact that they were shown as deeply moral, though misguided; it makes sense that a group of people who've been so isolated would make what we'd consider to be a wrong choice about how to protect their own interests and the interests of the Federation, and I was pretty shocked to learn at the end that Starfleet was just sending them back to that same environment. If this is supposed to be a statement about how people in our own century dismiss mental patients, they got the sad point across.

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                    Who Mourns For Morn
                    After this episode and Who Mourns for Morn I'm about ready for Quark to climb into a hole and die. Sorry you all know my vast hate for all things Quark.

                    I'm not saying its a bad episode just that it features my least favorite character. Despite it being about Quark its also about the character of Morn. Only on DS9 could a character with no spoken dialouge could get a whole episode devoted to him. And that is the story. Its about Quark inheriting Morn's will and an adventure if you will to discover the gold. And along the way Quark meets old friends of Morn who also want Morn's latinium. These people are a portal if you will for us to learn more about the character who never shuts. And thats fun. While the story itself has a lot to be desried the tidbits about Morn make this an medicroe episode.

                    I chuckle every time Quark calls gold worthless

                    Far Beyond the Stars
                    Its a topic seldom discussed or even mentioned on Star Trek. Racism. Apparently its non-existent by the 24th Century. I find that a little bit unrealastic but that is a story for another day.

                    The premise is quite simple. The Prophets (well actually Pah'Wraiths but that is another story) enable Sisko once again to experence a vision of what takes him back the 1950s where his status is so much different then what it is the present.

                    And the story seems (for now at least) seems to have no purpose. Its just to show the characters in different roles due to society's status in 1950s. And that to me is enough. Because I thought it was releastic without being harsh to one side. You have cruel Caucassion like the human verisons of Dukat and Weyoun. But at the same time you have the kind "whites:" like the human versions of O'Brien and Quark. Speaking of Quark I find it interesting that his 50s counterpart is the polar oposite of the prime version of him. One adheres to the rules of society while the other questions the validity of it.

                    I could go on how all the character in the 1950s are intertesting but that seems kind of babbling. In short its a take on raciasm and just how different things are now then the past. It shows how much has changed and hope for a better world
                    Originally posted by aretood2
                    Jelgate is right

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                      Statistical Probabilities

                      The one obvious flaw in Statistical Probabilities is the crisis that arises at the very end of the show. In which Jack announces that Starfleet is wrong in dismissing the analysis and that his own decision to surrender should stand. In which he plans to contact Weyoun and Damar anyway, who are on the station for a diplomatic meeting. In which he talks about how he will use his access to battle plans and intelligence information to supply the Dominion with a means for a swift invasion (an action Bashir correctly recognizes as "treason"), which in the long run could "save lives." I don't care whether Starfleet is technically supposed to be a "military" organization or not, but it's in a war with a powerful adversary, and military organizations do not supply the casual civilian (much less an insane one) with crucial data and strategic plans that could have such extreme consequences if misused. One would hope such information is deemed "classified" and that Bashir wouldn't even have access to it. While the intentions of this sequence of events are relevant in terms of Bashir's self-realization, the actual actions prompt nothing but incredulity. Once again, we have a situation which claims to put the entire war situation "on the line."

                      Despite that the way these events unfold is annoying, I did like the personal realizations that came out of them. Jack's willingness to make a decision that could theoretically affect billions (punctuated by his remark about being "the next best thing" to a god) underlines the relevant fear that "normal" people have of genetically enhanced megalomaniacs. Also, Sarina aiding Bashir in foiling Jack's plan was reasonable, and the fact that Jack couldn't even predict Sarina's "betrayal" of him made for a pretty good point: How can Jack be so sure about the future when he couldn't even predict the actions of one person in his own room? Bashir's disappointment at the turn of events definitely does a good job of bringing him back to earth, as he realizes that there's much more going on than the odds game.

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                        Originally posted by jelgate View Post
                        Far Beyond the StarsThe premise is quite simple. The Prophets (well actually Pah'Wraiths but that is another story) enable Sisko once again to experence a vision of what takes him back the 1950s where his status is so much different then what it is the present.
                        The Pah'Wraiths? I always thought that it was more of the Prophets that sent Sisko the vision. What makes you say Pah'Wraiths?
                        "Goodbye Eli Wallace, you're a good man."
                        - imlad, from http://www.readandfindout.com/

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                          Originally posted by J-Whitt Remastered View Post
                          The Pah'Wraiths? I always thought that it was more of the Prophets that sent Sisko the vision. What makes you say Pah'Wraiths?
                          The S7 premiere explictly states the Benny Russell reality was created by the Pah'Wraiths
                          Originally posted by aretood2
                          Jelgate is right

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                            Originally posted by jelgate View Post
                            The S7 premiere explictly states the Benny Russell reality was created by the Pah'Wraiths
                            Hmmm. Apparently I need to rewatch that episode. Thanks.
                            "Goodbye Eli Wallace, you're a good man."
                            - imlad, from http://www.readandfindout.com/

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                              The Magnificent Ferengi

                              What this episode is about is comedy. These Ferengi constitute the most inept team ever, and the results are often quite funny. Take, for example, the scene where they engage in combat simulations in the holosuite. Rom runs into a wall. Brunt surrenders (all too easily). Gaila is shot. Leck shoots Moogie. And Nog is just a big pain as drill sergeant. Oddly, much like first season's The Nagus, more Ferengi on-screen at once turns out to be more fun.

                              Some of the humor, like the sly scene where Quark and Rom roam the shafts of the station to suddenly and accidentally find themselves in Sisko's office, work because they're clever and understated. But more often than not, it's the go-for-broke banter and slapstick that is put to the test in. The plot takes the Ferengi to the abandoned station Empok Nor where they're to meet and negotiate with a Vorta official named Yelgrun (a man with lots of Jem'Hadar at his disposal and not a whole lot of patience).

                              There's plenty of dialog between Quark and Yelgrun, much of it ending with Yelgrun making a reluctant concession and/or sarcastic remark. Some of this works, though some of it doesn't. While Iggy Pop delivers deadpan reasonably well, he just can't keep up with the whimsically engaging performances of Shimerman and the other Ferengi players.

                              In a move that borders on some rather disturbing humor (but which prove hilarious), Nog rigs Keevan's corpse with neural stimulators in order to create the illusion Keevan is still alive long enough for the rest of the Ferengi to gain the upper hand on Yelgrun and his two soldiers. The use of Keevan in an idea spawned by Weekend at Bernie's is about as low as the writer's probably could have gone. But I've got to hand it to them - it manages to work as portrayed. Seeing the dead Keevan standing like a statue with eyes wide open and head lodged at an unnatural angle was still a hilarious sight.

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                                I love that episode. So ridiculous.
                                If you've seen a Jeff O'Connor or a JeffZero or a Jeff Zero or a JeffZeroConnor elsewhere on the net, there's a considerable chance it's me.

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