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    DS9 does a good job with episodes like Cardassians because of how the writers view the morality of the characters in a more realistic way. Where as the TOS and TNG viewed people in the 23rd and 24th century as having become almost innately better people, the writers of DS9 treats it as much more of a cultural influence. That's why we get tons of speeches from Kirk and Picard talking about how humans have evolved to become more civilized and rational as if humans somehow gained extra morality and logic genes between the 21st and 23rd/24th century and that the Federation was formed because human brains have become biologically superior. The characters represent something that we can strive for but never achieve because we simply aren't "evolved" enough. It's also why some people claim that DS9 betrayed Roddenberry's vision by making Star Trek "darker."

    However, in reality, DS9 simply interprets Roddenberry's vision differently. DS9 treats humans like they're still humans, with all the strengths and weaknesses that we've always had. The DS9 writers sees that the reason why humans have become better is because the culture they embraced has allowed them to expand their potential. However, since humans are still humans and all the things that have made them in the 24th century better is due to culture then when people are taken out of that culture, we get to see that they're really not that different from us. That also means that the ideals and principles of the Federation are not beyond our reach. It is possible for us to become like the more "evolved" people of the 24th century by improving our culture and society.

    By extension, the same concept can be expanded to other species as we see in an episode like Cardassians. We see that what truly separates us from other people is not something immutable like biology but culture. The Cardassians are not innately hostile or evil but live under a society that indoctrinates its citizens. The bad guy therefore is not the species but the social construct under which they are ruled.

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      Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
      While I've always had the impression that Dark Page isn't the most popular of episodes, I do agree with what you're saying. I quite enjoy it too.
      that is my favorite Lawxana episode of them all. The one where she puts aside her petty superiority and becomes most human.

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        /\/\/\ Nice Post Giant Evil 1 /\/\/\
        Melora plays like another small DS9 drama about unique perspectives that doesn't really seem know what it wants to say. It rambles on and on with dialog scenes that don't really have any long-term significance to Melora's situation, while Melora herself comes off as an undefined character. First the story makes Melora unlikable and closed-off because she hates anyone who tries to give or even offer her help, then it suddenly makes her open to possibilities when Bashir far-too-easily stumbles over a medical procedure that could allow her to walk in normal gravity - an idea that, dramatically, is both too obvious and doesn't offer any interesting insights.

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          Originally posted by jelgate View Post
          Cardassians
          Melora
          Rules of Acquisition
          I liked "Cardassians", I wasn't so keen on "Melora" ( that woman really bugged me for some reason, I wanted someone to slap her or something, wheelchair or no wheelchair ), "Rules of Acquisition" was a bit of a hit and miss ( there were some funny bits in it, but when the Ferengi woman threw herself at Quark I was cringing )
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            Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
            I liked "Cardassians", I wasn't so keen on "Melora" ( that woman really bugged me for some reason, I wanted someone to slap her or something, wheelchair or no wheelchair ),
            Same here Lady Linda. I just watched them both over the last couple of nights and Melora was definitely the weakest of the 2. I did really enjoy Cardassians though. I am going to re-watch Rules of Acquisition tonight. I have the entire week off of work.
            the Fifth Race

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              Originally posted by Starbase View Post
              Melora plays like another small DS9 drama about unique perspectives that doesn't really seem know what it wants to say. It rambles on and on with dialog scenes that don't really have any long-term significance to Melora's situation, while Melora herself comes off as an undefined character. First the story makes Melora unlikable and closed-off because she hates anyone who tries to give or even offer her help, then it suddenly makes her open to possibilities when Bashir far-too-easily stumbles over a medical procedure that could allow her to walk in normal gravity - an idea that, dramatically, is both too obvious and doesn't offer any interesting insights.
              Well said brother Starbase - What really hurts in Melora are two awkward, forced Runabout scenes. One involves Dax and Melora talking about "romance in Starfleet," which feels out of place and is directed with such uncertainty, very soap
              operish. The other big mistake is the finale where the bad guy from the B-plot takes Melora, Quark, and Dax hostage in a Runabout, and is resolved with the corny idea of Melora disabling the gravity to subdue him.

              Melora isn't awful - some of the Bashir/Melora chemistry works, particularly the scene where Bashir deconstructs Melora's sarcastic defensiveness with equally pointed remarks.
              the Fifth Race

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                I think the biggest problem in 'Melora' was the character of Melora. I can understand a person who has some type of disability (regardless if it's physical, mental or a person who's just out of place) wanting to do things for themselves, but never have I felt such a lack of compassion for a character in a show I enjoy.

                I could not enjoy this episode at all because of the character. Any time the character went on a rant about not needing help, being able to do everything herself and wanting to go off on her own, I couldn't have cared less.

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                  Originally posted by SaberBlade View Post
                  I think the biggest problem in 'Melora' was the character of Melora. I can understand a person who has some type of disability (regardless if it's physical, mental or a person who's just out of place) wanting to do things for themselves, but never have I felt such a lack of compassion for a character in a show I enjoy.

                  I could not enjoy this episode at all because of the character. Any time the character went on a rant about not needing help, being able to do everything herself and wanting to go off on her own, I couldn't have cared less.
                  I have a simlair problem. Melora goes on and on how about how difficult her like is being confined to the chair and the pain it brings and yet when a solution comes to rid her of that disablity she doesn't go along. It makes little sense
                  Originally posted by aretood2
                  Jelgate is right

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by jelgate View Post
                    I have a simlair problem. Melora goes on and on how about how difficult her like is being confined to the chair and the pain it brings and yet when a solution comes to rid her of that disablity she doesn't go along. It makes little sense
                    That is a good point. Also, the Federation is supposed to be aimed at understanding, cooperation, helping when necessary and she basically ignored that. She'd never give people the chance to know her, so there was no understanding. She wanted to do everything herself so there was no cooperation, and when she needed help, well screw that too because she had too much to prove.

                    I think her primary motivation was to just prove she could do it. Just look how being the first Klingon in Starfleet affected Worf, or first Ferengi affected Nog. Melora was the first <) can't remember species (> and turns out to be an absolutely horrible person who seems to be trying to prove something to others than prove something to herself.

                    When I enter a shop (for example), I tend to hold the door open for whomever is behind me (depending on how far behind me they are), Melora seems to be the type of character who'd give you crap for holding the door open, then ***** at you for doing it because you think they can't do it for themselves.

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                      melora was not a believable character to my mind. i can understand that people with that kinda attitude might exist somewhere in the far reaches of reality but i have yet to encounter any.

                      i could have understood her complaining if it was because people were understimating her abilities due to her disability but they werent. they were just being polite and treating her the same as anyone else. there was no reason for that bad attitude. in fact i think that the character of melora gives disabled people a bad reputation in that regard. none of the disabled people i know have ever acted that way when offered assistance, even when it was an offer of assistance they didnt need or want they were still polite when declining it.

                      also i have never been a big fan of one episode romances. unless its the absolute main focus of the episode then there just isnt usually enough screentime for the relationship to properly develop into a proper emotional commitment imo. quite often its like bam love at first sight very quickly romance followed by a heartfelt goodby never to see you again.

                      that said if there is an off-screen prior history between the two or if the non-regular character recurrs in a later episode or two then i will usually be okay with it.
                      Quietly, so as not to alarm anyone, she began to go insane

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                        One episode romances tend to be unbelievable and usually suck. Look at Dax and that guy from the phasing planet, or the above example of Bashir and his low gravity girlfriend, or [Prophets help us] Geordi and Aquiel. Notable exceptions include Kira and Thomas Riker , and Will Riker and Yuta, and Riker again with that almost asexual Soren. One episode romances [and Riker's, in particular] are best when they end badly.
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                          Originally posted by nx01a View Post
                          One episode romances tend to be unbelievable and usually suck. Look at Dax and that guy from the phasing planet, or the above example of Bashir and his low gravity girlfriend, or [Prophets help us] Geordi and Aquiel. Notable exceptions include Kira and Thomas Riker , and Will Riker and Yuta, and Riker again with that almost asexual Soren. One episode romances [and Riker's, in particular] are best when they end badly.
                          Well said brother nx. Thomas Riker and Kira were the "exception". It's good to see you back on GW and the superior thread.

                          I think I am going to rewatch Rules of Acquisition before bed tonight.

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                            Originally posted by Starbase View Post
                            Well said brother nx. Thomas Riker and Kira were the "exception". It's good to see you back on GW and the superior thread.

                            I think I am going to rewatch Rules of Acquisition before bed tonight.
                            And I'm going to watch Necessary Evil tomorrow night. And it will be only one episode brother Starbase as I watch V on Tuesday nights

                            I liked Picard when he dated that science officer in Lessons. I liked her
                            Originally posted by aretood2
                            Jelgate is right

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                              I wouldn't say that Tom Riker and Kira had a single episode relationship. There was definitely chemistry there, which Riker exploited but a saying it was a single episode relationship is pushing it.

                              I think out of all the single episode relationships in any of the series, Bashir was the worst. He had Melora and Sarina, which was just wrong in both instances as they were patients of his. Then there was Ezri, which just seemed liked his attempt to get with Dax since she couldn't get with Jadzia.

                              Then there is Kim, whose love live was just sad. I'm trying to remember how Paris put it, "an ex borg, the wrong twin, a hologram and now a woman from a xenophobic species". Then after that, there was Lyndsay Ballard, who was a reanimated corpse. It's sad when his only stable relationship never happened because of Kes regressing through time.

                              Strangely enough, I did like Riker's one episode relationships. I guess being a ladies man (like Kirk) makes us more accepting of them because it's never really been about the emotional relationship, but the physical with him and Kirk. I didn't like the relationship Picard had with Nella (the science officer). I thought his relationship with Vash was very believable as it didn't seen out of character, but with Nella he was different. Climbing through Jefferies Tubes, doing duets, even when he thought she died, he seemed very attached. Just didn't work for me.

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                                Originally posted by the Fifth Race View Post
                                Well said brother Starbase - What really hurts in Melora are two awkward, forced Runabout scenes. One involves Dax and Melora talking about "romance in Starfleet," which feels out of place and is directed with such uncertainty, very soap
                                operish. The other big mistake is the finale where the bad guy from the B-plot takes Melora, Quark, and Dax hostage in a Runabout, and is resolved with the corny idea of Melora disabling the gravity to subdue him.

                                Melora isn't awful - some of the Bashir/Melora chemistry works, particularly the scene where Bashir deconstructs Melora's sarcastic defensiveness with equally pointed remarks.
                                I just don't go for the bad attitude on the disabled.
                                A bad attitude is a bad attitude whether you can use your legs or not. I didn't like her.

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