The Depths (411)

[siles]

Oh not another Helen/Will stranded episode. I hate those with a vengeance Why can't Helen be stranded with Henry for a change

[meredithchandler73]

Although Will's whining really started to grate on my nerves, I really did love this episode. Amanda was simply AWESOME in this episode. The arguments between Helen and Will were terrific. I loved how it was the water, and then the rocks, that were responsible for the healing and improved mental abilities. And I totally think it would be inspired to use the rocks for Henry's currently non-working suit.

I gotta say, at times it was a bit jarring to jump to the Henry video clips. Much as I love Henry, I certainly don't mind all Magnus, all the time either. But his clips were pretty cute, and I especially loved the more serious moments where he talked about how the world was now and wondered what it would be like for his child. And how he doesn't know about his own parents and wants his kid to know him. Makes me want to give Henry a huge hug!

I need several more viewings of the episode to properly praise Helen/Amanda. It's hard to pick out specific moments when I just loved every moment of her!

With regard to her 113 relived years...Helen was supposed to be living in isolation, but it seems like she was keeping tabs on her life, watching how things unfolded. It certainly would have been a smart thing to know how her life unfolded the second time around, just in case there were any major or minor changes that she should know before stepping in again. I wonder how and from where she would have tracked her life. That may just be one of those things TPTB just gloss over, but I'd be interested to know.

Edited to add: Forgot to mention - Will's whining was irritating, we all agree. I am sure he can be frustrated to have his suggestions shot down a lot by Magnus, but can he really believe she doesn't know better than he??? There was a moment when I wasn't hating Will - at the very end when he mentioned how Helen carries the weight of the world by herself. I thought he would be reaching out to her, asking her to open up and not shoulder it all alone. But when he suggested being Helen's partner, I almost laughed out loud. Helen's reaction ("Ah.") made me think she's been through this before with proteges.

[fems]

I enjoyed this episode more than I'd expected, knowing it was going to be about Magnus and Will trapped in a cave. I almost always get annoyed with Will in those and that's mostly because Magnus gets whumped (with awesome acting by AT) and all he worries about is himself.

It wasn't all that different this time around, I admit, but I loved that Magnus finally pointed out all she'd done despite the costs to herself. I was ready to beat Will to a pulp with one of those rocks when he confronted her and had the audacity to place himself with The Five (as if!) and before Ashley. I was fearing the worst when Will came down from his high but all in all I didn't think he acted that much worse than he has lately and those times he didn't have 'withdrawal' as an excuse.

I love how Magnus, despite having drunk the water also, didn't go in complete meltdown/complain/whine-mode like Will and still had the presence of mind to not bash his skull in. She has a lot of wisdom and Will seems to be too stubborn and/or obtuse to realize that and learn from her. He keeps complaining how everything has to be the Helen Magnus way but always ends up having his ass saved by her (with hardly a thank you for her in the end). Even now, when he tried to do it his way he totally screwed up and I don't just mean with how it played out (Magnus once again risking her own life so she could save him) but by drinking all that water! His body was far more damaged than hers and his 'withdrawal' seemed to be much worse than her (although that could be down to their personalities too) so it would have made a lot more sense for Magnus to drink all the water and become totally smart to find a way out for them because she wouldn't come crashing down as hard as he would. Yeah, her ribs would hurt and she'd be grumpy, but his wounds were severe and his organs would fail without proper medical attention. But hey, I guess all that doesn't matter in Will's world.

Like I've said many times before Will is so self-involved and keeps moaning about how Magnus handles things and now he was whining about only having one lifetime which he 'gave' to her. He doesn't even realize the burdens Magnus has to live with and how she's carried the weight of the world on her shoulders for the past 113 years until she comes straight out and tells him. Such an idiot! He didn't even think about what she's gone through throughout her life because the world revolves around Will and it's all me, me, me!

Magnus never forced him to do anything he didn't want to (unless they were close to dying and she was the only one with a sensible solution) and he didn't have to accept her offer to join the Sanctuary and could probably leave any time he wants to (I certainly won't try to stop him!). Here I actually disagreed with Magnus because I'm not sure the brilliance of her offer outweighed the disasters of working with Will. It certainly isn't very good for her psyche with all his accusations and constantly rubbing her nose into all the losses she's experienced, which is ironic considering his qualifications.

By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if Magnus has awarded other children whose families fell victim to Abnormals because she couldn't save them in time with scholarships. But of course in Will's mind he's the only one because he's the center of the universe and such a speshul snowflake.

I liked the Henry bits, especially because the suit will probably come back later in combination with the stones Magnus found. To me this is one of the few times they handled the two 'plots' right this season, with Henry's not being too long, intrusive and angsty. It was a bit more lighthearted and a nice change from the angst cavern, good timing as well because there were times I was close to killing Will and then sweet Henry came along. I also think it gave us a bit more insight in how Henry usually works and how he comes up with the technology we often see (by being Sanctuary's Siler it seem! ). And it was nice to get some background info on him, however small the mention of his parents and growing up without them was, since we're bombarded with everyone else's past throughout the seasons but never hear anything about him.

[siles]

This is how a cheap episode looks like. You only have to pay 2 and a half actors. The b storyline was beyond ridiculous. Expect more episodes like this in season 5 'cause imho they need to cut the costs....

[helenmagnus23]

I just watched this episode it was awesome and hard to watch at the same time , i cant believe what Will said to Helen that was cold and uncalled for and totally not fair! i'm rewatching it again.

I've been thinking Will's personality this season what if it has to do the timeline being messed with a subtle change maybe?

[kes]

What i also found interesting is before Will hurt Magnus with the Ashley comment. When he was talking about the five.. he left out Tesla..
DOes that mean Magnus actually cares about Tesla? Compared to the others i mean?

I believe it's because Tesla is the only other one still alive (and considering that Druitt's existence is still in doubt)

I think its because Tesla is immortal so he'll actually live longer then her so she can get close to him without fearing that.

[kes]

I enjoyed the ep, it had some great moments. Finally we get some backlash from the whole Abby thing and I glimpse into the 113 years of anguish.(what a wasted story that was).
Dont like the split screens, they drive me nuts. But at least there was a reason for these.
I love Henry, and although it was a bit WTF lol, I know the reason and understand (Tesla should have been there lol). At least it wasnt a whole crappy B story.

[fems]

I think its because Tesla is immortal so he'll actually live longer then her so she can get close to him without fearing that.

That and Will has seen how close she was to Watson, knows she was once engaged to Druitt and that of all of them she was the (only) one who kept in touch with Griffin so that was probably a friend she was very fond of as well. He can see the banter with Tesla but also the exasperation with him always getting in trouble, so he might not even think Tesla and Magnus are very close - the times they're flirting and showing they care are mostly when it's just the two of them, or at least without "the children".

[blueray]

I think its because Tesla is immortal so he'll actually live longer then her so she can get close to him without fearing that.

^this, and tesla also doesn't get close to people other then magnas.

[kes]

That and Will has seen how close she was to Watson, knows she was once engaged to Druitt and that of all of them she was the (only) one who kept in touch with Griffin so that was probably a friend she was very fond of as well. He can see the banter with Tesla but also the exasperation with him always getting in trouble, so he might not even think Tesla and Magnus are very close - the times they're flirting and showing they care are mostly when it's just the two of them, or at least without "the children".

From twitter:

@GillianHorvath: He's not dead. “@Dragons_Dusk: @GillianHorvath was there a reason Tesla wasn't on that big list?”

[fems]

From twitter:

@GillianHorvath: He's not dead. “@Dragons_Dusk: @GillianHorvath was there a reason Tesla wasn't on that big list?”

Well, to be honest that's a stupid reason because neither is Will... Though if I had it my way...

[meredithchandler73]

Just started rewatching ep now. Just realized the significance of the SCIU scientist talking about searching for Grendel's children. When Helen says Grendel is a myth, she replies, "He said you'd say that." I'm thinking Tesla felt this would be a good person to have working for SCIU - someone somewhat clueless who would be less trouble for Helen to deal with. "He" is most likely Tesla who lets her think her search for Grendel's children is a worthwhile endeavor. As for the dragon, Tesla may or may not have known that the creature eluded Gregory Magnus and figured it would survive a visit from this bunch.

[kes]

Does she say we? I think I heared They.

[tomstone]

Does anyone know why the writers changed Will so extremly? I started watching in the 3rd Season, so I just witnessed the downward Spiral that resultet in the Will we have now.

But when rewatching the first 2 Seasons its not the same. At first he was a positive and talanted profiler who could piece together the most difficult Puzzles. Even Watson was sure that Will might get better than him at some point.

Ever since then they stopped showing that part of him and I dont understand why, they can write good stories for everyone, but Will keeps getting "Boo, I am so poor and Helen is so evil sometimes".

[Skydiver]

I kept hoping htat the water was like an 'anti source blood' or something....where it made will stronger but helen weaker. Course I also had the thought that, when i saw the promo of the speedy healing that maybe it wasn't will but a doppleganger but that was wrong

I do agree that the angle of helen hurt and will healthy would have been neat and different. I think this is a lot of set up for the finale.

What if sanctuary for none means

Spoiler:

will is instrumental in getting the sanctuaries shut down? gets helen locked up somewhere and gets the sanctuaries turned over ot sciu?