Helen Magnus/John Druitt Ship/Discussion/Appreciation

[helenmagnus23]

I watched ITTB and Tempus i really want John to come back so badly! Watching ITTB i found it so hard to watch again especialy with how Helen was acting around John i think her anger got the better of her and she vented on John which im guessing he used to but i dont think she really ment what she said to him becase love is a very powerful thing.

[selene0789]

I watched ITTB and Tempus i really want John to come back so badly! Watching ITTB i found it so hard to watch again especialy with how Helen was acting around John i think her anger got the better of her and she vented on John which im guessing he used to but i dont think she really ment what she said to him becase love is a very powerful thing.

Actually don't think he's used to her temper. He's used to the cold shoulder, the distance, the wariness that came with his nefarious deeds in Whitechapel. But in every situation (that we've seen) where she is anything other than tentatively trusting of him, she's been defensive only.

She shot him in Whitechapel, not out of rage, but in an effort to stop him and prevent the murder of an innocent woman. She tried to kill him in the premiere, after he took Ashley and fed her to the lizard, but again, it was only because he was acting menacing-- and even here, it was quite clear to me that she truly regretted what he had become. She pitied him, and clearly still felt very strong emotions for him.

She still feels those feelings for him, and he knows it. So I think it truly comes as a shock to him that she was prepared to throw it all away and that she was angry at him for trying to put things "as they should be". He has only ever thought of her, and in that moment, it was no longer romantic but overbearing and insensitive. Who is he to dismiss everything that she had accomplished in his absence, and in spite of her heartache?

That's what sparks the outrage, and in time, once the threat had passed and John continued to prove himself a valuable ally in times of need, I think she would have softened towards him again.

[JanSam]

I do have a question for you all (I didn't read through the MANY pages that I need to catch up on, so you may have talked about this already). Do you think that Helen had a plan before she jumped through after Adam? Or did she just know that she had to stop him? I just don't see her as the type of person to jump and figure it out later, especially when the timeline is so important. I a trying to think (for my story) what might have been going through her head at that moment.

No. I don't think she had a plan other than "Stop Adam." I think she definitely prefers to think things through before she commits, but I also think there's a reckless edge beneath it all that allows her to make the split-second decisions she does. To me, it's clearly evident that she didn't really consider the consequences when we see her sitting in a cell at Scotland Yard, and she gives James that look that's half-terrified, half-heartbroken. In that moment, we realize that she realized a) she's in the middle of the worst period of her life, b) she has no way to get home, and c) she has the potential to ruin the course of history (and I think she knows at that point that as soon as Adam's taken care of, she'll be killing herself to prevent said ruination of the timeline).

So... yeah. There's my two cents. To me this is actually a prime example of Magnus "winging it", and hoping that it turns out all right in the end. It was a huge gamble, and to return to the future she had left (and not some Twilight Zone version of it) was nothing short of miraculous. Particularly when she later ends up influencing the timeline as Helen Bancroft.

My two cents...

I don't think Helen had a plan other than to stop Adam. She had only planned to go with John to find Adam and stop him; she didn't know he was so close to completing the device. Helen seemed to be debating whether to follow Adam as she stared at the rift in time. I think she realized she didn't have a choice but to follow if she didn't want history changed. She let her emotions take control of her actions when she first appeared back in time (they seemed reckless to me) and then she wasn't thinking clearly due to the concussion when James got her out. I don't think how her actions might have affected the time line sunk in until she was at the Sanctuary and James was questioning her. Helen's emotions were all over the place. Laying into past Adam as if he was Present Adam; wasn't smart and James called her on it before she realized what affect it could have. If Helen was thinking clearly would she really have considered shooting Adam at the Gentlemen's Club with all the witnesses present? Adam was right; that would have changed Helen's past.

[Artie]

My two cents...

I don't think Helen had a plan other than to stop Adam. She had only planned to go with John to find Adam and stop him; she didn't know he was so close to completing the device. Helen seemed to be debating whether to follow Adam as she stared at the rift in time. I think she realized she didn't have a choice but to follow if she didn't want history changed. She let her emotions take control of her actions when she first appeared back in time (they seemed reckless to me) and then she wasn't thinking clearly due to the concussion when James got her out. I don't think how her actions might have affected the time line sunk in until she was at the Sanctuary and James was questioning her. Helen's emotions were all over the place. Laying into past Adam as if he was Present Adam; wasn't smart and James called her on it before she realized what affect it could have. If Helen was thinking clearly would she really have considered shooting Adam at the Gentlemen's Club with all the witnesses present? Adam was right; that would have changed Helen's past.

I think that's a really good point. Helen precipitated the very thing she wanted to avoid by lighting into Adam that way, when past Adam hadn't actually done anything yet! And I think James was absolutely right to call her on it. I think that's a huge moment.

[ClassicCouples]

Why did I stay away for so long! I have been wracking my brain with the first part, that when I got to the end, I couldn't even think straight anymore I am loving everyone's ideas. I guess I will have to post a draft of the story and get everyone to give me some thoughts.

[selene0789]

Why did I stay away for so long! I have been wracking my brain with the first part, that when I got to the end, I couldn't even think straight anymore I am loving everyone's ideas. I guess I will have to post a draft of the story and get everyone to give me some thoughts.

Fics are welcome. I love fics. I love reading them and I love writing them. I'd be happy to give you thoughts!

[ClassicCouples]

I haven't ever struggled so much with writing something before! The story I am writing is a four-parter that takes place right after Out of the Blue: (1) On the way back to the Sanctuary (2) John shows up at the Sanctuary (3) Helen and John searching for Adam (4) Helen's decision to jump back with Adam. This is a rough draft/idea for part 1 - ANY comments/ideas/suggestions/responses are welcome!

Spoiler:

She tried to convince herself that it had been a dream; that it had meant nothing. But Helen knew better than to think that there were no connections to the real world. Too many situations reflected her fears—fear that she didn’t allow others to see—fears she didn’t even acknowledge herself. And now they had been brought to the surface, and she was unable to ignore them any longer. There were big problems that she needed to take care of. The Sanctuary needed her full attention, or they would not be able to keep control.

As she thought back to her dream and life as a painter, she knew that without the Sanctuary she would be lost. She could never be happy with a quiet lifestyle. If she had ever let the possibility of an easier life cross her mind, she now knew that it needed to be quickly pushed aside. Granted, life at the Sanctuary was a constant life and death situation, but it was her life. A life that she desperately needed to get back to; a life she needed to be able to focus on. The Sanctuary was getting away from its true purpose—the politics were interfering with her passion. She had to make some changes. She needed to be able to step back and get it all in perspective, but time was not something she was allowed. Relaxation time was not her friend. Too much quiet time let thoughts creep into her head. Thoughts like these that she could not escape from. Even this trip from New Mexico was giving her too much time to think. She needed to get her hands into something to force her mind to suppress these thoughts. But the beautiful scenery outside the window was no match for the thoughts inside her head.

Thoughts of John flooded her mind as she tried to get some sleep. Even in a world where the Source Blood had never happened, she and John still had not been able to work things out. It only helped prove what she had been trying to push aside for a long time now—as much as she loved this man, that they were destined to be apart. They would never be able to be together. For all these years she had let the guilt, and the hope, dim the anger that his continual disappointments had caused. The dream world had shown her the truth, and it had given her the power to let go. They had a lot of history—but she had a lot of future to think about and needed to be able to focus.

**This doesn't really show how mad/raw/unstable I think she is about the situation**

[JanSam]

If this is based off of Out of the Blue, I don't think she was mad at that point. Confused; yes but she hadn't had time to sort out the dream world yet. The anger didn't enter into it until John told her he wanted to erase who she was so they could be together.

Great start look forward to reading more.

[ClassicCouples]

If this is based off of Out of the Blue, I don't think she was mad at that point. Confused; yes but she hadn't had time to sort out the dream world yet. The anger didn't enter into it until John told her he wanted to erase who she was so they could be together.

Great start look forward to reading more.

Going back over part 2 of what I have written, I would agree with you. The scene when John comes back, she doesn't seem mad...I agree, confused. The next scene when she wants an explanation, it begins and builds until the "That's not love" part. And then it dies back down.

Thanks...this gives me a better way to work into the next part.

[For_All_Eternity]

The next scene when she wants an explanation, it begins and builds until the "That's not love" part. And then it dies back down.

The worst idea these writers have ever had about a Magnus line....

[Artie]

The worst idea these writers have ever had about a Magnus line....

Yeah. My response is, is it love for her to want her happiness at the expense of his for a hundred years? She's done great and wonderful things, and he's been left suffering. Is that love?

[selene0789]

My notes on the draft are thus:

Spoiler:

If you're going for chaotic thoughts, it's easiest to intersperse little snippets of the real world in there with her ponderings. Also, if you're looking for something a little more challenging, you could insert some observations of the people with her, who notice how rattled she is. Maybe an uncharacteristic shaking of her hands, or the way her gaze seems turned inward, when so often it's glued to the outside world, taking everything in.

But it's also fine as is. Magnus really does seem to have that ability to rationalize everything, so the way you have it right now totally works while also staying in character. I guess it depends on where you want to take the fic later on...

I actually really like the "That's not love." line. I mean, as a culture we seem to revere the romance in our literature, that all-encompassing relationship where the man never strays and would do anything to preserve the happiness he finds with a woman. Where his sole concern is the relationship itself, and the woman he cares for. No distractions of a career, no disapproving families to sway a relationship one way or another. Just the man and the woman, keeping the happiness between them.

But at what expense? It's totally romantic of him to want to be with her, after all this time, to the extent of going back in time for it. But she's totally right. By taking away the chance to be what she is in *this* timeline, he'd be shackling her to a future *he* wants. And to her, that's abhorrent because she knows precisely how much she has influenced this timeline. Even without reliving it a second time, she swayed the course of WWII, helped millions of Abnormals, saved the world a time or two, and influenced dozens of world leaders. Without her influence, there's no telling what untold horrors would become of our world.

So, her happiness aside, he was willing to destroy millions of lives, just to hold on to the idea of who she was in the past. And what that tells her is not that he values who she is, but only who she used to be. And depending on her feelings of the era (with diminutive women and tense gender stratification), that might be offensive to her on so many levels. It only reinforces the idea that to him, she is his Holy Grail-- an ideal, an object to quest for... not the strong woman she's become.

Though it is horrible that John's been suffering all these years, I'm not sure that's her fault. We obviously haven't seen everything that's happened between them, given his penchant to pop up in key moments of history, but I get the inkling that he doesn't stick around very long. Once she shot him in Whitechapel, he remained largely absent. It wasn't until he stuck around the Sanctuary later in the first and second seasons that it came to be known that he had a parasite that affected his actions. If he'd stuck around earlier, they might have realized he had the parasite, and then ALL of the Five could have helped come up with a way to get it out of him.

So I don't think it's fair to blame his suffering on Helen. Certainly no one is blameless, but she acted how she needed to at the time, and John's own actions helped to isolate himself from her.

Though, to be honest, I think the whole parasite thing is such a huge cop out. I much prefer the Druitt from the webisodes. You know, the one who's clearly mentally unstable, and is undeniably a certifiable psychopath. In the webisodes you can feel him walking that line between crazy and sane, but he's got a very aura of danger that's so deliciously dark.

I miss that Druitt. I wish Druitt was back in either incarnation, but to be honest, I find the no-question-he's-crazy-evil Druitt more interesting to watch than woe-is-me-I-have-a-parasite-in-me-making-me-want-to-kill-people antihero Druitt.

But that's just me.

[For_All_Eternity]

I agree that it is not Helen's fault that Druitt has been suffering, and I don't think he implied that either. He was just tired of it all. He didn't think things through, he didn't really consider the ramifications of his actions. After years of suffering, his common sense is completely shattered.

And Helen should know that. This is my biggest issue with the "This is not love" sentence. She actually assumes he is in his right mind, that he is making decisions based on careful consideration and specific plan of action. He is not. He is acting emotionally, he is acting stupid.

But he does love her.

It is the love for her that keeps him coming back, it is the love for her that is the only thread left for him to hold on to and he is so terribly confused that he doesn't think straight.

Yes, his decision to change the timeline was completely wrong and horrible on so many levels, but it is not a proof that he doesn't love her - it is a proof that after so many years of suffering he is desperate. And desperate people make stupid choices.

Helen is blaming John for something she does not understand completely. Keeping one's sanity is not a full-time paid job and she had not experienced it, as harsh as that might sound.
Helen had people around her who kept her sane, more or less. Ashley - the idea of the embryo waiting for Helen to carry, then the actual person, kept her sane. The results of her job (saving people's lives) kept her sane. The idea that she was in control of the Sanctuary kept her sane. Lonely, yes, but sane on a basic level.

John, on the other hand, had no control, no future and no meaning of his existence. Sanity and insanity were so interlinked in his mind that he didn't know where he was or what he was. This is something Helen could not understand. And by not understanding his pain completely, she makes the wrong conclusion about his actions. She understands parts of it, but not the entire thing. She could never get the entire thing.

Again, I don't know if I am making much sense right now (I am writing an original fiction about schizophrenia and I might be juust a little bit biased)

To sum up, John's actions are desperate, born out of years delving into insanity with only the memory of one person who had once helped him. Yes, his choices were wrong and they do not portray love for Helen by themselves, but in this case we should look at the bigger picture - something Helen, in her anger, doesn't. And the bigger picture his love is clearly visible.

[JanSam]

And Helen should know that. This is my biggest issue with the "This is not love" sentence. She actually assumes he is in his right mind, that he is making decisions based on careful consideration and specific plan of action. He is not. He is acting emotionally, he is acting stupid.

But he does love her.

You know this is what had me confused after watching Into the Black. John had never acted stupid or so emotionally. And he went from finding out about the energy creature and trying to kill himself (I have no destination in mind) to drugging himself into oblivion where Helen finds him. Tesla states that John came to him and wanted Tesla to get the energy creature out; but Tesla couldn't do it. So how does John go from wanting to get free of the energy creature to wanting to do anything to be with Helen? What changed him? It just seemed so out of character to me. John is NOT stupid and has had to control his emotions due to the energy creature. If they had him wanting to go back in time to get rid of the energy creature then I would not have had any issue with that; but to have him go back solely because he wanted to be with Helen....just seemed like an abrupt change. Don't get me wrong, I do believe John loves Helen but I just don't see him as a love sick individual. Thoughts?

[selene0789]

Jan, you are right, to an extent. It doesn't make sense for it to be about JUST Helen. But by going back and preventing them all from taking the Source Blood, he not only preserves their love, but prevents the parasite from using him as a host. Though to us it might seem ridiculous for him to disguise it as "so we can be together", at the same time to say it's about the parasite would make him seem selfish.

I think either way, Helen would not have been receptive to his reasoning. The whole thing would be so abhorrent to her, and with her being so affected by the psych!worm, it was a lose-lose for him either way.

By making it about her rather than himself, I think it gave him greater peace of mind. He could justify giving up everything for her. For himself? Perhaps not so much.